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Pirates 2024

Punxsutawney

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Andy Haines needs to be fired. Pirates Hitting overall is horrid.

It's hard to argue against that, given how their two highest paid position players are slugging under .400 and Davis and Cruz have not developed as expected.

If they do make a move, I suspect it won't be until late in the season

If Nutting is paying someone, rest assured that he is going to get about every dime of work out of them that he can.
 

Punxsutawney

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Quinn Priester's start last night was really encouraging. Too bad the Pirates couldn't score a single run.

Nearly a month in, this might be what they are offensively. Reynolds and Hayes will probably pick things up a bit, but that may be about it.
 

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30 games in. After going 11-4 in the first 15, they are 3-12 in the last 15.

I don't know what you do at this point. There is some talent on the Pirates roster, but for whatever reason, they are unable to develop it and sustain winning.
 

Badcat

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30 games in. After going 11-4 in the first 15, they are 3-12 in the last 15.

I don't know what you do at this point. There is some talent on the Pirates roster, but for whatever reason, they are unable to develop it and sustain winning.
It's the culture, Sarge. They come out of spring ball all smiles and having fun...loose...and as the regular season hits it slowly unravels every year as they begin to realize that they are the Pittsburgh Pirates, a team owned by a newspaper man who re-invests just enough to keep a team in town. No big names, no big talent, and when they do strike gold they trade him to teams with a legit bankroll because Nutting can't pay him what he deserves. rinse/repeat every year. I'll go to a few games this year because it's a cheap way to sit outside with that beautiful view of the city, eat warm chocolate chip cookies, and drink cold beer awaiting the REAL entertainment to take the field...the Pierogi race!
 

Punxsutawney

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It's the culture, Sarge. They come out of spring ball all smiles and having fun...loose...and as the regular season hits it slowly unravels every year as they begin to realize that they are the Pittsburgh Pirates, a team owned by a newspaper man who re-invests just enough to keep a team in town. No big names, no big talent, and when they do strike gold they trade him to teams with a legit bankroll because Nutting can't pay him what he deserves. rinse/repeat every year. I'll go to a few games this year because it's a cheap way to sit outside with that beautiful view of the city, eat warm chocolate chip cookies, and drink cold beer awaiting the REAL entertainment to take the field...the Pierogi race!

The money/market thing just becomes an excuse after awhile. They paid to keep Reynolds, Hayes and Keller, and look what they're getting from those guys this season.

Their are other small to mid-market teams who lose players, but still manage to be competitive much more frequently than the Pirates.

It's just a terribly run organization that cannot scout, develop or coach for ****, and this has generally been true through various front offices and coaching staffs over the past three decades.

It starts at the very top, as ownership has been the one constant.

How many talented players never fully realized their potential until after they left the Pirates? Jason Schmidt, Aramis Ramirez, Jose Bautista, Gerrit Cole, Tyler Glasnow and Joe Musgrave are all names that come to mind in that regard.

Unfortunately, "cheapness" is just one short coming of the Bob Nutting-owned Pirates, as even if he became willing to spend more money, there's little evidence he would know how to spend it effectively.
 

JMM

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The money/market thing just becomes an excuse after awhile. They paid to keep Reynolds, Hayes and Keller, and look what they're getting from those guys this season.

Their are other small to mid-market teams who lose players, but still manage to be competitive much more frequently than the Pirates.

It's just a terribly run organization that cannot scout, develop or coach for ****, and this has generally been true through various front offices and coaching staffs over the past three decades.

It starts at the very top, as ownership has been the one constant.

How many talented players never fully realized their potential until after they left the Pirates? Jason Schmidt, Aramis Ramirez, Jose Bautista, Gerrit Cole, Tyler Glasnow and Joe Musgrave are all names that come to mind in that regard.

Unfortunately, "cheapness" is just one short coming of the Bob Nutting-owned Pirates, as even if he became willing to spend more money, there's little evidence he would know how to spend it effectively.
I remember the rallying cry that McClatchy spouted that the new park would allow them to be competitive year in/year out. Seems like just yesterday but it's been a quarter of a century.
 

Punxsutawney

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Stick a fork in 'em. They're done.

The starting pitching might keep them somewhat competitive for awhile, as though the hitting will likely never be good this year, I tend to doubt it will be this bad all season.

Have to feel for Jared Jones, though. Might have to wait until he's inevitably traded to a team like the Dodgers or Yankees to play for a winning team.
 

stillerfaninfl

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This team sucks.

Suwinsky is not a pro ball player
 

Punxsutawney

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Paul Skenes will debut Saturday against the Cubs. Better late than never.
 

stillerfaninfl

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Paul Skenes will debut Saturday against the Cubs. Better late than never.
He'll give up one run and still lose since the Bucs won't score any. Starting pitching really ain't the problem.
 
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Badcat

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He'll give up one run and still lose since the Bucs won't score any. Starting itching really ain't the problem.
Joe (.288) Cruz (.252), Reynolds (.242) and Hayes (.242) are the only batters around the league average of .250. That is pathetic.
 

Punxsutawney

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I figure they’ll ruin him by August and he’ll be traded somewhere in 2-3 years where he’ll win a Cy Young and a World Series.

I kind of expect another situation similar to Gerrit Cole where he's "good" for several years, but doesn't fully realize his potential until he goes elsewhere.

Like Cole, he's one of those rare talents that is pretty hard to completely **** up, but that may not prevent the Pirates from trying.
 

Punxsutawney

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Not a great start for Skenes, but he'll be fine.

The team, however, will not be. Skenes managed to leave the game with a 6-1 lead, but the bullpen promptly blew it by hitting a batter and walking ******* four straight after that.

This team is just bad, and it's getting to the point where one has to start to question the job security of Ben Cherington and the front office.

It's becoming hard to see the progress in the overall strategy here when their two highest paid position players, who they're supposed to be building around, are not producing at all and one of their recent first overall draft picks has been a complete bust to this point.

There is definitely some talent on the pitching staff, but who really has faith in them getting the most out of it?
 

topseed

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It's becoming almost impossible to continue to be a Pirates fan. I don't give a shlt about pre-determined pitch counts -- they're bullshlt to start with. Let the guy pitch his way out of the fifth inning and learn how to deal with adversity, get the win, and send the crowd home happy for a change.
 

Punxsutawney

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Can we buy out Shelton's contract? I'll pitch in $20 or so.

He needs to go as well, but managers do not really have the same degree of impact on things that coaches do in other sports.

With that being said, he probably does bear responsibility for the ****** bullpen performance and the underachieving and lack of development from many of the hitters.

This overly passive hitting approach they've been instructing their players to take has been bogus.
 

Punxsutawney

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It's becoming almost impossible to continue to be a Pirates fan. I don't give a shlt about pre-determined pitch counts -- they're bullshlt to start with. Let the guy pitch his way out of the fifth inning and learn how to deal with adversity, get the win, and send the crowd home happy for a change.

Every manager is obsessed with pitch counts in today's game, but the Pirates are worse about it than most.

With that being said, Skenes was approaching 90 pitches in under five innings, which is a lot, considering he hadn't been throwing a ton in AAA.
 

Punxsutawney

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Skenes pitched 6 no hit innings in the win today.
What an outing

Probably the most talented player, pitcher or position, the Pirates have had since Barry Bonds. For as long as the Pirates have generally sucked, they were long overdue to be able draft someone like Skenes.

The sky might not even by the limit for him.

I'm not sure he'll be able to have the same type of impact on the Pirates as Sidney Crosby did for the Penguins, as Skenes is only pitching once a week, but it's a similar caliber of talent.

Also, unlike Crosby, there's no chance of Skenes signing long term in Pittsburgh.
 

Steeltime

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The Pirates have absolutely zero production from 1B, and Suwinski needs to hit like 2023. If they upgrade 1B, and Gonzales continues to hit like he has his entire career, the top 3 starters (Skenes, Jones, Keller) and the back end of the pen (Holderman, Chapman, Bednar) make this a better-than-average team. Just cannot have Tellez continue to go 0-4 and leave runners on 3rd with less than 2 outs.
 
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