I believe how far apart the games are, frequency is important, the further apart they are the more likely it is an isolated event that can be due to unusual factors, the closer together they are the more indicative they are of a trend and something due to internal factors.
Pittsburgh NOT the only team to loose to BAD teams
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The buck stops with the head coach. What constant change happened, head coach, between the times this happened. And the Head coach affects everything to some degree.
A discussion of Tomlin on his merits. My initial thoughts were he was not ready to be a head coach when hired but was hired because the Rooney family wanted a guy they could bring in and train to do it in what they thought was the correct way to do it. They have since the 70s been very successful. They had a hall of fame defensive coordinator that had just been one season from a super bowl win. They had other coaches that would need to be replaced because they did not get the HC job. Mike Tomlin made lots of glaring mistakes his first few years but started out with a very good team so he was able to mask his flaws. His impact on various things like the draft tends to be minimized by his supporters unless we talk about Bell or Brown or Wallace for some examples.
I see no reason to change my take on this idea of why he was chosen. This has been a long road for MT to travel, steeler fans are not a patient lot and have grown up watching quality football for a long time. Many have become more vested in the game than fans of other teams as the team has a very loyal and dedicated following. The fans are loyal to the team, not to individuals, generally unless they are true superstars or hometown guys.
The Mike Tomlin discussion would be easier if he was white and did the same things. There are many who wish to read racism into everything forgetting what in a true color blind society matters most, objectivity and performance or perceived performance.
I have been unhappy with this approach in hiring. I believe it has taken MT much longer than the Rooney's thought for him to reach the level of competence needed for this job. He has been improving. It is early to tell but this looks like one of his better drafts, this will not be one of the years we have no one one the team from the draft class that is a solid player. He has found a way to deal with adversity successfully this year even with so many young guys on the team. He was able to bridge the gap and bring back Harrison and Kiesel which the team really needed. His decision making on the side lines has seemed to improve. I did not do a spread sheet and compare years but I have seen things that looked like good game time decisions. I have still witnessed some things that I thought were exceptionally dumb from time to time and no I did not right them down or save them to memory. Over all I think he is doing better than he has in the past.
This season the defense was hit hard with injuries to personnel and he was able to adapt and make some workable adjustments to the team, it is likely that the assistants had input as well but using all of your resources to achieve goals is what makes someone a good manager verses a bureaucrat. The offense was also very much in turmoil and it appears that has been managed a bit into 3 members looking for pro bowl slots and being in the tops of their respective positions. In our last game it appears the process for making workable adjustments during the game has been worked out. If this trend continues the team may finally be on to something. I will add when a team is playing as far down the depth chart as the steelers are right now it is hard to adjust too much as it is often dependent on the abilities of your players, and there is no reason to think the bottom of the depth chart is as good as the top.
Overall I would say MT has responded to a situation needing urgency and utilization of what was at hand in order to achieve goals. He appears to have taken a step in the right direction for now and still has a ways to go to be the coach the steelers fans want but at this juncture he is on the path and going in the right direction. There are still lots of things for him to resolve as his addition of talent for example is not exceeding his loss of talent at this point, in fact it is not keeping pace so far but maybe that will change as well.
I see no reason to change my take on this idea of why he was chosen. This has been a long road for MT to travel, steeler fans are not a patient lot and have grown up watching quality football for a long time. Many have become more vested in the game than fans of other teams as the team has a very loyal and dedicated following. The fans are loyal to the team, not to individuals, generally unless they are true superstars or hometown guys.
The Mike Tomlin discussion would be easier if he was white and did the same things. There are many who wish to read racism into everything forgetting what in a true color blind society matters most, objectivity and performance or perceived performance.
I have been unhappy with this approach in hiring. I believe it has taken MT much longer than the Rooney's thought for him to reach the level of competence needed for this job. He has been improving. It is early to tell but this looks like one of his better drafts, this will not be one of the years we have no one one the team from the draft class that is a solid player. He has found a way to deal with adversity successfully this year even with so many young guys on the team. He was able to bridge the gap and bring back Harrison and Kiesel which the team really needed. His decision making on the side lines has seemed to improve. I did not do a spread sheet and compare years but I have seen things that looked like good game time decisions. I have still witnessed some things that I thought were exceptionally dumb from time to time and no I did not right them down or save them to memory. Over all I think he is doing better than he has in the past.
This season the defense was hit hard with injuries to personnel and he was able to adapt and make some workable adjustments to the team, it is likely that the assistants had input as well but using all of your resources to achieve goals is what makes someone a good manager verses a bureaucrat. The offense was also very much in turmoil and it appears that has been managed a bit into 3 members looking for pro bowl slots and being in the tops of their respective positions. In our last game it appears the process for making workable adjustments during the game has been worked out. If this trend continues the team may finally be on to something. I will add when a team is playing as far down the depth chart as the steelers are right now it is hard to adjust too much as it is often dependent on the abilities of your players, and there is no reason to think the bottom of the depth chart is as good as the top.
Overall I would say MT has responded to a situation needing urgency and utilization of what was at hand in order to achieve goals. He appears to have taken a step in the right direction for now and still has a ways to go to be the coach the steelers fans want but at this juncture he is on the path and going in the right direction. There are still lots of things for him to resolve as his addition of talent for example is not exceeding his loss of talent at this point, in fact it is not keeping pace so far but maybe that will change as well.
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I have two, and I see them all the time. Folks who don't know the difference between "berth", as in a playoff berth, and "birth", as in a child being born. Drives me nuts. The other one is people who spell "no one", as noone. Unless you're talking about the former Monkee (Peter Noone for you whippersnappers), there is no such word as "noone". Bothers me more when I'm on college sports boards, where most of the fans are alums, and as college grads, should have a better working knowledge of the language.
I
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From 2007-11, we lost five games to teams that finished 5-11 or worse. Once per year is a terrible rate for an upper-tier team, which we were.
We were winning, of course, so it doesn't seem like that big of a deal in retrospect (although once per year, damn). But look back on the impact some of them had. In 2009, late in the season (playoff push), we lost to three awful teams in a row - KC, Oakland, and Cleveland - and finished 9-7, missing the postseason. Win ONE of those games and we're in the playoffs. Win two and we win the division.
We saw that happen again later, of course. In 2012, we had just knocked off Baltimore with Charlie and were controlling our own playoff destiny. So of course we got destroyed at home by a 4-8 Charger team on a huge losing streak, putting our chances in jeopardy. (The infamous "I'd Rather Be Down By Three Scores Than Two In the Fourth Quarter" Game.) In 2013, we finish 8-8 and out of the playoffs; had we knocked off the 5-10-1 Vikings and/or the 4-12 Raiders, we'd have cruised into the playoffs.
As many have stated in here.. ****-the-bed games happen. But they happen as a whole, throughout the league, not to one playoff-contending team over and over and over.
I'm in no mood to rehash that argument either, but is it really not relevant? Those players handled bottom-feeders just fine pre-Tomlin: they only lost once to bottom-feeders from 2004-06. Starting in 2007, the floodgates kinda opened,
There you go again using facts to prove a point.
Ben was most certainly a part of them there looses.
Earlier, in another thread, you readily admitted that the Rams are not as bad as their record, which is 4-6. So why do you keep including them in your "**** teams" category?
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I understand where your coming from, but maybe he includes them as they are a "****" team. A QB away from possible contention.
Salute the nation
It's been told to me time and again that unless a team has at least a .500 record that they are, in fact, a **** team. So I had to adjust my argument for a more simplistic view.
The Rams do have a good defense. Look at the roster.
They have a **** offense. As Drink IRON City said, they could just need a QB. I agree with that and that they finally may have a decent WR if Kenny Britt can keep his **** together. Their RBs are all very young, too.
Overall, the Rams are 4-6 in a division that has the league's only 9-1 team, a division that also includes the 49ers and Seahawks - two teams from the most recent Super Bowls. If you put them in the NFC South, they'd be immediately tied for first place.
sullysezso71
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love seeing the chefs fall flat to the raiders, love seeing the raiders celebrate a sack and draw the flag....
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Because Tomlin is supposed to be in charge of all those people
As far as Lebeau is concerned, I can completely get on board with the fact that his defenses, even when good, are far too susceptible to giving up 4th quarter leads and letting QBs look far better than they do against any other team if we fail to generate pressure. We have been one of the worst defenses at generating sacks and turnovers in recent years. This is very true.
These are true statements. But Tomlin has failed to hold DLB accountable for this by failing to exert his authority over the team by adjusting the game plan. Giving up too many 4th quarter leads? Maybe you should check the trends of what your defense is doing late in games with leads and ADJUST. Are you going into the prevent D? Are you bringing less pressure out of fear of giving up the big play, giving the QB too much time? Find what you're doing wrong and CHANGE IT. If Lebeau himself won't change it, most likely because he's old, traditionally successful with "his" defense, and set in ways, then it becomes Tomlin's job to MAKE him change it. Stand up, take control over what is happening on the field instead of letting the same train wreck unfold over and over again just in different stadiums in different weeks against different QBs. How about you draft some CBs before the 5th round? Unless, of course, he thinks there's nothing wrong with the defense continually making average or bad QBs look like Joe Montana and giving up 4th quarter leads over and over again. Which seems to be the more likely scenario.
As far as Ben is concerned.. Is Ben one of the least consistent QBs in the league? Sure. Does he have a tendency to take entire games off against defenses that make other QBs look like gods? Absolutely.
I think Ben does deserve a lot of criticism, moreso than Steelers fans tend to throw his way. I think he has this habit of showing us what he is capable of once in a blue moon, but then that guy disappears for a while and he settles into the "norm". The "norm" isn't bad, but it's not as great as the flashes of greatness he shows from time to time. As Ben goes, the team goes. He has far too many instances of inaccuracy on the deep ball, not seeing open receivers downfield, leaving points off the board in the red zone. We've all seen it, it's nothing new.
But once again, I ask: What has Mike Tomlin ever done about it? Surely if he can see Ben having the same weaknesses and making the same mistakes in 2014 that he was making in 2007, I want to know why he sits idly by and lets that continue to happen. Hire Haley to call faster, quicker-hitting plays to keep Ben upright? Smart, in theory. But at least Bruce Arians coached Ben, mentored Ben, helped him develop as a QB. Who is developing Ben as a QB now? Who is helping him recognize his mistakes, fine-tuning his technique to grow as a player? Obviously not Haley, obviously not our QB coach. But is Tomlin doing anything about that? Of course not. It's just far too convenient to say "well that's the QB coach's responsibility" "that's the offensive coordinator's fault". But at what point do you recognize that things need worked on and actually COACH, rather than delegating everything, including the responsibility for what happens on the field, to all of the other coaches and ultimately, the players?
For Tomlin, up to right now as I type this, the answer to that has been never. Tomlin doesn't coach this team. He delegates the actual coaching to the guys beneath him who, at times, are either too stuck in their ways or limited in their capabilities to solve some of the problems this team has. That is when the head coach needs to either coach the ******* team or at least find assistants who can accomplish what the current ones cannot.
So sure, go ahead and blame Dick Lebeau even though we know he's older than Moses and does what he knows works. Go ahead and blame Ben even though we know he is a grown child and does what he wants. Continue to let the guy who is paid to MAXIMIZE and IMPROVE the performance of all of those people deflect and delegate the duties and responsibilities to everyone else when it goes wrong. The bottom line is that whether you're in business or sports or whatever, when one-off issues happen from time to time, you blame the lower level employees (players) doing the grunt work and making those random mistakes. When those employees (or players) make the same mistakes over and over again, when the same negative trends continue not just across weeks, but across YEARS, you look at the management. Point blank, period.
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But Aggie, he's "only" been here since 2007!! Gee whiz, why ya gotta be such a racist meanie??
Aggie I will agree with most of your statement but also add some of the problems are also with the employees in this case. Look at the defense and what it has been given to work with. Requiring corner backs to cover in ways they can't will not make it happen, it will make them fail, badly. For an example of Dick Lebeau's defense with other players one only needed to look at the Titans defense vs the Steelers Offense. That is an offense that has a running back, quarter back, and wide receiver in the race for the pro-bowl and in the top 5 of the nfl at those positions right now. The defense of the titans which is poor against the run and has been all year likely due to the people they have held that offense to 24 points.
I would say the scheme is there but the people to make it great are not. I will further add that the choices of personnel have been rather poor in many cases, more so since Tomlin arrived. Unlike most other types of enterprise where employees can be removed easily for performance issues the nfl is not one of them. Bad choices can take a long time to correct. I will also attribute these to the arrival MT.
I would say the scheme is there but the people to make it great are not. I will further add that the choices of personnel have been rather poor in many cases, more so since Tomlin arrived. Unlike most other types of enterprise where employees can be removed easily for performance issues the nfl is not one of them. Bad choices can take a long time to correct. I will also attribute these to the arrival MT.
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Excellent Post Aggiiesteel !!!!!!! Best I've seen in a while.
Salute the nation
Salute the nation
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You are what your record says you are. Every team has injuries/excuses to lean on. A 4-6 team is less than average over all regardless of how they got there.
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You cant change QBs tendencies this late in their careers. Just like Favre was a slinger and threw ill advised INTs, he was often great at what he did. Coaches lived with it. QBs will gamble at times...but to expect Tomlin or any other coach to come in and re-invent Ben is fantasy. It aint gonna happen.
But throw out some names of current coaches tht you KNOW actually coach their teams....evidence ? You cant just say "well its on the wins and losses record. Often times i see "Hoodie" on the sidelines with that trademark "scowl" on his face. Is he coaching ?
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There are numerous coaches who came in and installed their entire offense/defense - successfully. Belichick, Payton, McCarthy, Harbaugh, Kelly, Arians, Reid, McCoy. There are guys who have done so to mixed success - Trestman, Bill O'Brien, Rex Ryan, Whisenhunt, Gus Bradley. The idea that head coaches don't do anything is ridiculous, with all due respect.
blitzburghv5
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I never suggested they didnt do anything...when he mentioned coaching how the **** does he know when a coach is coaching because all we see on the television is the coaches reaction after a bad play, a great play or a stupid penalty. I KNOW coaches are always coaching. But to suggest that since one coach is not as DEMONSTRATIVE as some others, does not in any way mean they arent coaching.
Cowher stood on the sidelines stoic often and when something bad happened out came the chin and scowl. And folks saw him openly chastise players. Well something like that happens to this team and we see Tomlin encourage the player to do much better the next time and we assume "awww see, hes soft...hes punked by his players...hes lost control...he sucks!!". We dont know what occurs during practice or during film review. But i believe corrections are made and discipline handed down when necessary. Those shitload of penalties we incurred at the early part of the season ?.....theyve declined.......Aside from the Jets game, those mental errors have mostly stopped. The defense is playin much better and the offense is clicking on all cylinders. We will know how much growth and chemistry we've developed over the next 5 games. I like that Cincy and Cleveland both won yesterday because it puts pressure on this team to keep winning.
LOL, this thread is a prime candidate for interjecting this timely BTSC fanpost.
I don't understand why it is the way it is. Football has changed from a simple game and form of entertainment into a multi-billion dollar industry that has grown in influence to the point where it can control the emotional states of people week to week. Football has become an outlet for negative emotions, rather than an enjoyable experience.
I miss the days when watching football wasn't a source of stress. I miss the days when you could flop down on the couch with your family or friends and watch a game of football and simply have fun, win or lose. The world would be a better place if more people thought this way instead of holding players, teams, coaches, and owners to an unrealistically high expectation of perfection every single year.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/17/7235349/what-happened-to-just-enjoying-football
View attachment 815
I don't understand why it is the way it is. Football has changed from a simple game and form of entertainment into a multi-billion dollar industry that has grown in influence to the point where it can control the emotional states of people week to week. Football has become an outlet for negative emotions, rather than an enjoyable experience.
I miss the days when watching football wasn't a source of stress. I miss the days when you could flop down on the couch with your family or friends and watch a game of football and simply have fun, win or lose. The world would be a better place if more people thought this way instead of holding players, teams, coaches, and owners to an unrealistically high expectation of perfection every single year.
http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/2014/11/17/7235349/what-happened-to-just-enjoying-football
View attachment 815
Good post Chip..
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Lunar again.
This is hilarious!!!
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The day they took hitting out of football and stuck in this arm tackling billion cheap yards of over hyped fantasy bullshit was the day i stopped enjoying it. To me the product thoroughly sucks ***. Just too much money involved for it to ever recover it's former glorious self. I like to vent my displeasure here,but outside of here i don't care. They don't pay me to care. I care more about how ****** our country is getting.
