Prediction for the off season

[deljzc]

I sure as hell hope not, he has been so over paid this year he should work for free next year.

I think we're as stuck with Worilds at LOLB as Tombert was with Max Starks back in 2008-2009 at LT.

We have no other options as that position unless we want to draft ANOTHER linebacker very high in the draft and even then that is very unlike the Steelers to go into a draft needing a position like that. I guess we could look elsewhere in free agency but this regime will value Worild's knowledge of the system highly when considering the value of Worilds vs. Player X on another team.

I really do predict a franchise tag and long-term signing for Worilds, just like Max Starks. And just like Max Starks we'll probably look back at this 3-4 years from now and marvel at the absurdity and waste of so many cap dollars.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I think we're as stuck with Worilds at LOLB as Tombert was with Max Starks back in 2008-2009 at LT.

We have no other options as that position unless we want to draft ANOTHER linebacker very high in the draft and even then that is very unlike the Steelers to go into a draft needing a position like that. I guess we could look elsewhere in free agency but this regime will value Worild's knowledge of the system highly when considering the value of Worilds vs. Player X on another team.

I really do predict a franchise tag and long-term signing for Worilds, just like Max Starks. And just like Max Starks we'll probably look back at this 3-4 years from now and marvel at the absurdity and waste of so many cap dollars.

Unfortunately, I can see Worlids being back at an uncomfortably high price tag as well.

Unless Jones really impresses down the stretch, I think they HAVE to go OLB with one of their first two draft picks, even if they resign Worilds

It, along with CB, are the two most glaring weak spots on the roster right now, which is laughably pathetic given what they're paying Worilds and Allen. OT is a need as well, but I do not consider it as glaring as Beachum and Gilbert, though very upgradable, are not terrible.

For once I'd like to see the Steelers get creative with their finances, creating flexibility to surprise me with a splash move in FA or totally blow my mind via a trade.

I've grown tired of watching the Steelers prime rival in the Ravens make prudent non-draft moves at key positions, acquiring the likes of Eugene Monroe and Elvis Dumervill, while the Steelers lie around with their thumbs up their *****, remaining committed to "building almost exclusively through the draft," which they've royally sucked at for years now.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Not my point at all. My thoughts are that if some of us can see a trend the Rooneys may be able to see it as well. In addition to the trend they will have lots of other information regarding the head coach the rest of us do not. I would not consider a decision after 8 years reactionary and suspect that the Rooneys do not have some minimum time they are going to go with regardless of the team that is on the field. It is also my understanding that the contract of the head coach or any others for that matter are not guaranteed but would in fact end with the removal of that coach so they would not likely be paying two coaches. The possibilities for change are there we just need to see which path is chosen.

So answer this. If we have a 9-7 season this year, what does that mean for a "trend?" Are we trending up? After all, it's better than the last two 8-8 seasons. You're saying all the right things, but coming to a wrong conclusion because it's the conclusion you're hoping for - that Tomlin will be let go because of the last couple of years.

Yes, the Rooneys must surely see "the trend."

Yes, the Rooneys have information we do not. Why do you assume that that information can only lead them to consider firing Tomlin or not renewing his contract?

Yes, the Rooneys must be considering the totality of Tomlin's 8 years as the coach here... 8 years in which he's outperformed the first 8 years of Noll and Cowher.

I have no idea what you mean by "suspect that the Rooneys do not have some minimum time they are going to go with regardless of the team that is on the field."

I also don't know what you're talking about when you say "paying two coaches."

As for "the possibilities for change," tell us what these possibilities are. It's possible that Bill Cowher will come out of retirement. It's possible Chuck Noll will rise from the grave to lead us to 6 more Super Bowls. But looking at coaches who are or will actually be available, who is better? I believe that exercise has already been done around here, and the list of coaches likely to be in the market for a new job was NOT impressive.

 

[SteelerFan448]

I've grown tired of watching the Steelers prime rival in the Ravens make prudent non-draft moves at key positions, acquiring the likes of Eugene Monroe and Elvis Dumervill, while the Steelers lie around with their thumbs up their *****, remaining committed to "building almost exclusively through the draft," which they've royally sucked at for years now.

Mike Mitchell, Cam Thomas, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Lance Moore, Arthur Moats, LeGarrette Blount and Brice McCain didn't do it for you?

 

[Punxsutawney]

Mike Mitchell, Cam Thomas, Darrius Heyward-Bey, Lance Moore, Arthur Moats, LeGarrette Blount and Brice McCain didn't do it for you?

LOL

Yeah, just not feeling it.

 

[Xc944]

As I said, EVERYONE can see the downward trend, but even with the last three years, he's still got a .629 regular season record over his career as the head coach here. Noll's career regular season record was .566, and Cowher's was .623. As much as we both agree that the last few years have sucked, A) he still hasn't had a season under .500, and B) when you look at his cumulative body of work to date, he's better than both Noll and Cowher. If you compare just their first 8 seasons, Cowher's record was .601 with two losing seasons and Noll's was 585 with three losing seasons. I guess eight years into either of their careers, you were screaming for their heads too?

Ultimately, the Rooneys are not known to make knee-jerk decisions when it comes to coaching staff. Looking at a bigger picture and not just a "the sky has been falling the last few seasons" perspective of the fans, Tomlin is a better coach, at least on paper (and it makes me gag to even write that). Although I don't expect to make the playoffs, I also don't think we fail to win at least ONE game the rest of the season, and Tomlin still doesn't have a season under .500, which can't be said of either Noll or Cowher.

Don't tell me tomlins first 8 is better than cowher when Tomlin will probably miss the playoffs 4/8 years

 

[steelpride]

So answer this. If we have a 9-7 season this year, what does that mean for a "trend?" Are we trending up? After all, it's better than the last two 8-8 seasons. You're saying all the right things, but coming to a wrong conclusion because it's the conclusion you're hoping for - that Tomlin will be let go because of the last couple of years.

Yes, the Rooneys must surely see "the trend."

Yes, the Rooneys have information we do not. Why do you assume that that information can only lead them to consider firing Tomlin or not renewing his contract?

Yes, the Rooneys must be considering the totality of Tomlin's 8 years as the coach here... 8 years in which he's outperformed the first 8 years of Noll and Cowher.

I have no idea what you mean by "suspect that the Rooneys do not have some minimum time they are going to go with regardless of the team that is on the field."

I also don't know what you're talking about when you say "paying two coaches."

As for "the possibilities for change," tell us what these possibilities are. It's possible that Bill Cowher will come out of retirement. It's possible Chuck Noll will rise from the grave to lead us to 6 more Super Bowls. But looking at coaches who are or will actually be available, who is better? I believe that exercise has already been done around here, and the list of coaches likely to be in the market for a new job was NOT impressive.

Noll won 2 Super Bowls in his 1st 8 years so again you are wrong and stupid to keep repeating the lie Tomlin outperformed Noll. For a guy who says he hates Tomlin you sure do go to extremes to lie and stupidly defend his poor coaching.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Don't tell me tomlins first 8 is better than cowher when Tomlin will probably miss the playoffs 4/8 years

How can his first 8 not be better he won a super bowl and went to another?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Predictions for the offseason, ok.... Troy, Ike, Keisell, Harrison, Moats, Allen, Worilds, and McCain gone from the defense. Who replaces/steps up on their behalf?

Maybe Jarvis Jones has a brother.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Noll won 2 Super Bowls in his 1st 8 years so again you are wrong and stupid to keep repeating the lie Tomlin outperformed Noll. For a guy who says he hates Tomlin you sure do go to extremes to lie and stupidly defend his poor coaching.

Where have I lied? Where have I defended Tomlin? You're the one making **** up here. I am simply pointing out indisputable facts, in the form of win-loss statistics. You so badly want to be right and for me to be wrong that you are inventing this idea that I think Tomlin is subjectively better than Noll or Cowher. I am only pointing out objective facts, and not making any subjective judgments about them, other than that I have said repeatedly that I think Tomlin is a terrible coach. It's just that, for whatever reasons you want to give, he's paradoxically a statistically better coach at this point in his career than Noll or Cowher were in terms of record.

 

[steelpride]

Where have I lied? Where have I defended Tomlin? You're the one making **** up here. I am simply pointing out indisputable facts, in the form of win-loss statistics. You so badly want to be right and for me to be wrong that you are inventing this idea that I think Tomlin is subjectively better than Noll or Cowher. I am only pointing out objective facts, and not making any subjective judgments about them, other than that I have said repeatedly that I think Tomlin is a terrible coach. It's just that, for whatever reasons you want to give, he's paradoxically a statistically better coach at this point in his career than Noll or Cowher were in terms of record.

OK moron, how is Tomlin better than Noll his first 8 years Noll built the greatest team in NFL history and had already won 2 Super Bowls and in his 8th year the greatest team in NFL history who gave up 28 points in 9 games and had just destroyed a great Colt team 40-14 on the road in the payoffs, but lost Bleirer and Harris to injury but then you stupidly go blindly by overall record forgetting Noll built a team from scratch going 1-13, 5-9 and 6-8 before winning all the Super Bowls and you being too stupid to realize that skews down his overall record. Of course as I pointed out before, Barry Switzer also had a better winning percentage than Jimmy Johnson who built the great dynasty and retired and then Switzer rode the team like Tomlin has done and driven them into the ground like Tomlin has also done.

Only a complete idiot would argue missing the playoffs going on 4 times in 8 years, zero playoffs 3 straight years and no playoff wins in 5 years is etter than a coach who in his 1st 8 years built the greatest team in NFL history, had already won 2 Super Bowls and was stilla dynasty in its prime was inferior to the piece of **** teams Tomlin is fielding, you are a moron.

 

[steelpride]

Where have I lied? Where have I defended Tomlin? You're the one making **** up here. I am simply pointing out indisputable facts, in the form of win-loss statistics. You so badly want to be right and for me to be wrong that you are inventing this idea that I think Tomlin is subjectively better than Noll or Cowher. I am only pointing out objective facts, and not making any subjective judgments about them, other than that I have said repeatedly that I think Tomlin is a terrible coach. It's just that, for whatever reasons you want to give, he's paradoxically a statistically better coach at this point in his career than Noll or Cowher were in terms of record.

Again moron, won loss records mean **** when you are comparing a coach that built the dynasty from scratch to a coach who inherited a great team with a franchise QB but then again you are either too stupid to comprehend the facts or just a moron. 2 Super Bowl wins in 8 years ttops 1 in 8 years moron.

 

[JupiterBnG]

OK moron, how is Tomlin better than Noll his first 8 years

I'll use small words as much as I can, but I also have to use some numbers, and I don't know if your pea-brain can handle it.

Tomlin's record in his first 8 years: 0.629
Noll's record in his first 8 years: 0.585

I'm not making any judgment about Tomlin's ability, I'm simply stating that Tomlin has a better record than Noll did at the same point in his career. I've also repeatedly pointed out that he has that winning record despite being, by all outward appearances, totally incompetent.

But you simply cannot dispute the wins and losses. That is FACT. What you make of those facts is up to you, and I agree with you, I would rather have Noll than Tomlin. But what you and I want doesn't necessarily reflect what the Rooneys think, and I am confident that Tomlin is not going anywhere soon.

Only a complete idiot would argue missing the playoffs going on 4 times in 8 years, zero playoffs 3 straight years and no playoff wins in 5 years is etter than a coach who in his 1st 8 years built the greatest team in NFL history, had already won 2 Super Bowls and was stilla dynasty in its prime was inferior to the piece of **** teams Tomlin is fielding, you are a moron.

Noll missed the playoffs for a four year stretch during his career too, and his job was not even remotely in jeopardy. But that has less to do with the coach than it does with the way the Rooneys have stood behind their head coaches. There are plenty of owners in this league that would have already fired Tomlin. Those are teams like the Cowboys and Raiders, who also suck pretty consistently, even when the coach himself isn't terrible.

 

[Omar10213245]

But that has less to do with the coach than it does with the way the Rooneys have stood behind their head coaches. There are plenty of owners in this league that would have already fired Tomlin. Those are teams like the Cowboys and Raiders, who also suck pretty consistently, even when the coach himself isn't terrible.

Mike Tomlin has been in Pittsburgh since early 2007. Its now 2014, almost 2015. Lets stop acting like his tenure began a year and a half ago. Constantly firing coaches after 1 or 2 seasons, yes I get that, it's beyond ridiculous; firing tomlin is NOT that.

 

[steelpride]

I'll use small words as much as I can, but I also have to use some numbers, and I don't know if your pea-brain can handle it.

Tomlin's record in his first 8 years: 0.629
Noll's record in his first 8 years: 0.585

I'm not making any judgment about Tomlin's ability, I'm simply stating that Tomlin has a better record than Noll did at the same point in his career. I've also repeatedly pointed out that he has that winning record despite being, by all outward appearances, totally incompetent.

But you simply cannot dispute the wins and losses. That is FACT. What you make of those facts is up to you, and I agree with you, I would rather have Noll than Tomlin. But what you and I want doesn't necessarily reflect what the Rooneys think, and I am confident that Tomlin is not going anywhere soon.



Noll missed the playoffs for a four year stretch during his career too, and his job was not even remotely in jeopardy. But that has less to do with the coach than it does with the way the Rooneys have stood behind their head coaches. There are plenty of owners in this league that would have already fired Tomlin. Those are teams like the Cowboys and Raiders, who also suck pretty consistently, even when the coach himself isn't terrible.

You are too stupid to be real.

i guess in your **** brain Jimmy Johnson is inferior to Barry Switzer, Siefert is better than walsh etc.

Noll missed the playoffs 4 years in a row after winning 4 Super Bowls, he earned the right to rebuild. Tomlin has not earned ****, he was handed a Rolls Royce and has turned it into a Dodge.

 

[JupiterBnG]

You are too stupid to be real.

i guess in your **** brain Jimmy Johnson is inferior to Barry Switzer, Siefert is better than walsh etc.

Noll missed the playoffs 4 years in a row after winning 4 Super Bowls, he earned the right to rebuild. Tomlin has not earned ****, he was handed a Rolls Royce and has turned it into a Dodge.

I don't know how else to explain to you that I am NOT saying "better record = better coach." I am simply pointing out that Tomlin's record and the fact that he has yet to post a losing season is a factor that simply cannot be ignored by anyone, least of all the Rooneys.

 

[steelpride]

I don't know how else to explain to you that I am NOT saying "better record = better coach." I am simply pointing out that Tomlin's record and the fact that he has yet to post a losing season is a factor that simply cannot be ignored by anyone, least of all the Rooneys.

Backtrack much ***** .

The Rooneys hired two coaches who turned around the franchise in Noll and Cowher, Tomlin has not been nearly as successful as his predecessors and not winning a playoff game in 5 years, in the process of missing the playoffs 3 years in a row with a franchise QB, which no Steeler coach has ever done has shined the spotlight on Tomlin's ineptitude. The current Rooney regime is not the same one that hired all these coaches and the finances of todays NFL will not allow them to stick with a below average coach like Tomlin now that he has stripped the talent that carried him to his early success which of course he dod not have any role in acquiring.

 

[Wingman]

"But you simply cannot dispute the wins and losses. That is FACT. What you make of those facts is up to you, and I agree with you, I would rather have Noll than Tomlin. But what you and I want doesn't necessarily reflect what the Rooneys think, and I am confident that Tomlin is not going anywhere soon."

The above seems to be your stumbling block. Wins and losses can be disputed, as there is more to coaching than those little gems. Particularly when you inherit a team that has just won the super bowl a year ago. It could also be said that a coach that takes over a team that was drafting first in the nfl might have had a bit more work to do. The break down of halves illustrates it rather well and the extremes that the season could produce were also displayed.

As to your other comments regarding paying two coaches or a certain number of years you might want to read the whole thread as those were also points of discussion.

 

[JupiterBnG]

Backtrack much ***** .

Show me where I've said anything else. Just because you can't understand doesn't mean my arguments have changed.

The Rooneys hired two coaches who turned around the franchise in Noll and Cowher,

So Cowher turned around the franchise? How could that be, if the Rooneys didn't fire an ineffectual Noll? ******* moron, you can't even string two consistent thoughts together, and you're accusing ME of backtracking? If the franchise needed to be "turned around" by Cowher, it implies that Noll isn't the demi-god you want him to be.

Tomlin has not been nearly as successful as his predecessors and not winning a playoff game in 5 years, in the process of missing the playoffs 3 years in a row with a franchise QB, which no Steeler coach has ever done has shined the spotlight on Tomlin's ineptitude. The current Rooney regime is not the same one that hired all these coaches and the finances of todays NFL will not allow them to stick with a below average coach like Tomlin now that he has stripped the talent that carried him to his early success which of course he dod not have any role in acquiring.

Hey, fuckwit, hate to break this to you, but Art Sr. has been dead for 26 years, and Dan and Art II were integral to the ownership operations even before he died. Dan and Art II haven't shown that they are inclined to run the team any differently than Art Sr. did. Stop pretending that this is "a different Rooney regime," and that they are likely to act differently. You're projecting your desire to be rid of Tomlin onto how you think the Rooneys will act.

 

[steelpride]

damn you are a dumb ****. keep arguing against points you try to make. The Steelers Cowher took over were a poor team that hadn't won a Super Bowl in 13 years, had been to the playoffs ONCE in the last 8 years,dumb ****.

You know nothing about how Art Rooney acts if you think he is like his dad or grandfather. He fired Arians and has neutered Tomlin at every turn but keep talking **** dumb ****. I could give a **** if Tomlin is fired or not, frankly I could care less how the Steelers do under the current regime, the playofffs are out , the Super Bowl will never happen under the idiot so I get my entertainment watching the idiot coach poorly, talk stupidly and run the team into the ground, its entertaining as shot and that is all football is once you get older and realize todays NFL is all ****.

 

[JupiterBnG]

damn you are a dumb ****. keep arguing against points you try to make. The Steelers Cowher took over were a poor team that hadn't won a Super Bowl in 13 years, had been to the playoffs ONCE in the last 8 years,dumb ****.

And if that team that Cowher took over was so ******, you were screaming for the Rooney's to tell Noll to take a hike?

Yeah, I thought not.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Here's my prediction. It will frustrate the **** out of me.

 

[steelpride]

And if that team that Cowher took over was so ******, you were screaming for the Rooney's to tell Noll to take a hike?

Yeah, I thought not.

No you dumb ****, the greatest coach in NFL history had the capital and gravitas to end his tenure under his own terms, you are too stupid to see anything but a skewed 8 year won loss record as the barometer of a coach's worth. You scream how much you hate Tomlin yet like the little ***** you are defends his sorry *** at every turn, dumb ****.

 

[JupiterBnG]

No you dumb ****, the greatest coach in NFL history had the capital and gravitas to end his tenure under his own terms, you are too stupid to see anything but a skewed 8 year won loss record as the barometer of a coach's worth. You scream how much you hate Tomlin yet like the little ***** you are defends his sorry *** at every turn, dumb ****.

So not winning a Super Bowl in 13 years (it was 12 years, by the way) and getting to the playoffs once in 8 years is excusable due to "capital and gravitas" but missing the playoffs for a couple of years means Tomlin should be taken out behind the practice facility and shot. Got it.

So what's the mathematical formula you're using to calculate this "capital and gravitas?"

Noll:

Won four Super Bowl wins in 23 years, or averaging one in just under every 6 years
Missed playoffs 11 of 23 times
Went 93-91 (.505) regular season and 2-4 (.333) in the playoffs over 12 years since his last SB win

Tomlin:
Won one Super Bowl in 8 years
Missed playoffs 4 of 7 times, pending the finish of the current season
Went 56-31 (.644) regular season and 2-2 (.500) in the playoffsover 6 years since his last SB win

Please explain how a coach accumulates this "capital and gravitas" and how it erodes over time, because it would seem that, by any objective measure, Tomlin is statistically superior except that averaged over his career, he doesn't win Super Bowls quite as frequently.

I await your return to accusing me of being a Tomlin fan, since that's all you really have left.

 

[steelpride]

So not winning a Super Bowl in 13 years (it was 12 years, by the way) and getting to the playoffs once in 8 years is excusable due to "capital and gravitas" but missing the playoffs for a couple of years means Tomlin should be taken out behind the practice facility and shot. Got it.

So what's the mathematical formula you're using to calculate this "capital and gravitas?"

Noll:

Won four Super Bowl wins in 23 years, or averaging one in just under every 6 years
Missed playoffs 11 of 23 times
Went 93-91 (.505) regular season and 2-4 (.333) in the playoffs over 12 years since his last SB win

Tomlin:
Won one Super Bowl in 8 years
Missed playoffs 4 of 7 times, pending the finish of the current season
Went 56-31 (.644) regular season and 2-2 (.500) in the playoffsover 6 years since his last SB win

Please explain how a coach accumulates this "capital and gravitas" and how it erodes over time, because it would seem that, by any objective measure, Tomlin is statistically superior except that averaged over his career, he doesn't win Super Bowls quite as frequently.

I await your return to accusing me of being a Tomlin fan, since that's all you really have left.

dumb ****, comparing a middling coach like Tomlin to the greatest coach in NFL history shows your absolute stupidity and Tomlin nut hugging.


Did Noll have a franchise QB for the last 10 years of his career like the mediocre Tomlin has had for his entire career, dumb ****

Has Tomlin ever built a team from scratch NO., has he run down the great team he was handed YES