Religion is MYTH!!!!

[khruuton]

Trying to stick around this time... my company doesn't always allow me to access this site. It's a duck shoot.

 

[USDA#1]

Ante Pavelic.

bad choice.

 

[Spike]

There, dig in.

You'll be hiding underground when the sky gods return with their slaveships

 

[fedderone]

Ho Chi Minh is a sonofabitch

Got the blueballs, crabs, and the seven year itch.

 

[south dakota STEEL]

A salads not a salad, without khruutons.

Welcome back...

 

[Spike]

Trying to stick around this time.

You know you are my favorite poster after Supe

 

[oneforthebus]

You can tell by all the golden idols

And by the billions spent providing food, shelter, clean water, medical care, HIV drugs, etc. all over the world.

 

[Sarge]

I don't know how religious I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and the Lord our God. What befuddles me is why some folks spend so much time trying to debunk something they don't believe in. What is the point? Do you think that whether you believe or not that you will convince someone that what you believe is right? Or is it more just to be insulting? For the most part, I laugh at atheists for the way they go about disbelieving. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that a bunch of molecules roaming around at random has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are. Well, Americans, anyway. But I don't go around posting billboards insulting atheists that believe that humans are born from something other than intelligent design. If you believe in God or don't, great. Whatever. Good for you. But why be an *** about it? What do you gain?

 

[ark steel]

30k for Lenin? I never looked, but I would have expected a lot more.

 

[Superman]

going strictly by Adam and Eve, we're all a bunch of inbred retards and I want to commit interracial incest with Stacey Dash and broadcast it across the entire ******* Mid-East in the name of peace.

 

[fedderone]

I don't know how religious I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and the Lord our God. What befuddles me is why some folks spend so much time trying to debunk something they don't believe in. What is the point? Do you think that whether you believe or not that you will convince someone that what you believe is right? Or is it more just to be insulting? For the most part, I laugh at atheists for the way they go about disbelieving. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that a bunch of molecules roaming around at random has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are. Well, Americans, anyway. But I don't go around posting billboards insulting atheists that believe that humans are born from something other than intelligent design. If you believe in God or don't, great. Whatever. Good for you. But why be an *** about it? What do you gain?

You believe them to be two completely separate entities?

 

[JupiterBnG]

What befuddles me is why some folks spend so much time trying to debunk something they don't believe in.

Why do religious people spend so much time trying to debunk other people's beliefs? It's a two-way street.

I don't expect to convince anyone to change their beliefs. But I do enjoy, to an extent, the mental exercise of engaging in the debate, and learning about other peoples' points of view.

For the most part, I laugh at atheists for the way they go about disbelieving. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that a bunch of molecules roaming around at random has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are.

For the most part, I laugh at Christians for the way they go about believing. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that an omnipotent, omniscient God has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are.

 

[fedderone]

Why do religious people spend so much time trying to debunk other people's beliefs? It's a two-way street.

I don't expect to convince anyone to change their beliefs. But I do enjoy, to an extent, the mental exercise of engaging in the debate, and learning about other peoples' points of view.



For the most part, I laugh at Christians for the way they go about believing. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that an omnipotent, omniscient God has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are.

For those of us believers, he didn't make us morons.
He gave us free will/choice.
We make ourselves morons.....and for the most part, we're pretty good at it and don't need help.

 

[JupiterBnG]

For those of us believers, he didn't make us morons.
He gave us free will/choice.
We make ourselves morons.....and for the most part, we're pretty good at it and don't need help.

Back to the old "free will" debate... So what purpose is served if God creates people that he knows are, by and large, going to let him down? Why does God "hope" that every person somehow overcomes infinite temptations and chooses, however improbably, to lead a perfect life?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I don't know how religious I am. I believe in Jesus Christ and the Lord our God. What befuddles me is why some folks spend so much time trying to debunk something they don't believe in. What is the point? Do you think that whether you believe or not that you will convince someone that what you believe is right? Or is it more just to be insulting? For the most part, I laugh at atheists for the way they go about disbelieving. It is kinda dumb. I mean, I don't think that a bunch of molecules roaming around at random has this great of a sense of humor to make the human race as moronic as we are. Well, Americans, anyway. But I don't go around posting billboards insulting atheists that believe that humans are born from something other than intelligent design. If you believe in God or don't, great. Whatever. Good for you. But why be an *** about it? What do you gain?

All good points Sarge.......Why someone can be offended by something they don't believe in is beyond me. Unicorns don't exist, anyone offended?

 

[Superman]

All good points Sarge.......Why someone can be offended by something they don't believe in is beyond me. Unicorns don't exist, anyone offended?

dude. that's overboard. ark believes unicorns fart rainbows and **** skittles.
please delete this before he sees it. I do NOT want to be the one to console him.

 

[fedderone]

Back to the old "free will" debate... So what purpose is served if God creates people that he knows are, by and large, going to let him down? Why does God "hope" that every person somehow overcomes infinite temptations and chooses, however improbably, to lead a perfect life?

It's not our place to question God.
I'm sure if he wanted to, he could have created a bunch of "slaves" if that's what you're getting at.
I can't begin to comprehend God's thought process, but trying to equate it in human terms......If you were the most handsome/prettiest, and had all the money in the world, and men and women falling all over you, and whatever desires/wishes/wants you could ever want, wouldn't you be bored at some point? Wouldn't it get tedious and repetitive to you? Like Groundhog Day?
I'm almost positive he didn't think we'd be perfect. God even says in the bible that EVERY one falls short of the kingdom. Meaning, nobody's perfect and everyone will sin at some point in some way. EVERYONE.
If I'm purely speculating, which is exactly what I'd be doing, why God gave us free will, would be to see what is truly in the hearts of people to properly judge them.
In the way I believe, which I'm not saying is right or wrong, there's going to be people that go to church, call themselves Christians or whatever other religious belief, and think they're doing just enough or what they think they're supposed to, that are going to the lake of fire and not heaven. And that could be me for all I know.
Because of the way I believe, there's going to be far far more wrong than right in the way to serve God.
I guess God wants people to "prove" themselves and their committment to Him.
My best guess. That's all I can offer. Nobody will really know until they're dead or until the apocalypse/judgment day/rapture/whatever your belief is.

 

[JupiterBnG]

It's not our place to question God.

That's a cop-out. From a faith-based perspective, I understand why you take the position, but philosophically, you're abandoning reason by doing so, and wondering why people trying to engage in reason react negatively to it.

I'm sure if he wanted to, he could have created a bunch of "slaves" if that's what you're getting at.

If God exists, I'm sure he could have. My question has more to do with, what is the point of it all? We can dive into the paradox of free will vs. an all-knowing God (again), but I don't imagine anyone will really gain anything from hashing that out once more. God must have created us for a purpose. What is that purpose? If we're not fulfilling that purpose, why would a perfect God bother with keeping us around? So he could "love" us? Funny way of showing it, with all the tragedy and horror in the world that he could prevent. So we could "love" him? What's to love, when no one can even know for certain God exists? The relationship between God and Man is like buying a puppy, and then putting that puppy in a box in the garage and never thinking about it again. It will suffer, wonder what it did to deserve this horrible life, and die alone. I would have found it a lot easier to be a believer had I lived in OT times, when you could reasonably expect to talk to a bush, or see a pillar of fire, or any number of profound miracles.

I can't begin to comprehend God's thought process, but trying to equate it in human terms......If you were the most handsome/prettiest, and had all the money in the world, and men and women falling all over you, and whatever desires/wishes/wants you could ever want, wouldn't you be bored at some point?

So you're saying God is bored with us, and decided to go hang out somewhere else? Sort of like the Clock-maker, who creates the universe and lets it just run, without interference, according to natural laws? Only in this case, he tinkered with us for a while before he decided to leave us alone?

I'm almost positive he didn't think we'd be perfect. God even says in the bible that EVERY one falls short of the kingdom. Meaning, nobody's perfect and everyone will sin at some point in some way. EVERYONE.

Again, I get that. But what's the point? What does God stand to gain from imperfect mankind, assuming that he didn't create us for no purpose at all? If he didn't want slaves, or worshippers, what function do we perform for him? Entertainment?

If I'm purely speculating, which is exactly what I'd be doing, why God gave us free will, would be to see what is truly in the hearts of people to properly judge them.
.
.
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I guess God wants people to "prove" themselves and their committment to Him.

But, if we apply the logic of the free-will-vs-omniscience debates we've had here in the past, God KNOWS, without predetermining your fate, how you will ultimately be judged. If God knows all things, then he already knows how you will be judged, and has for all time. It's an exercise in futility - why create something that he knows will fail him? What proof can be made to a God that already knows all things, including whether you can "prove" your commitment?

 

[oneforthebus]

I do enjoy, to an extent, the mental exercise of engaging in the debate, and learning about other peoples' points of view.

For the most part, I laugh at Christians for the way they go about believing. It is kinda dumb.

You find debating dumb people to be mental exercise? OK.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

I have zero desire to live for eternity. How amazingly boring. How long until you have seen and done everything? I mean, I guess I would be ok with it if I could be like Batman or something for a while but just wandering around in a field or talking to relatives for centuries upon centuries seems incredibly dull.

 

[Vader]

I have zero desire to live for eternity. How amazingly boring. How long until you have seen and done everything? I mean, I guess I would be ok with it if I could be like Batman or something for a while but just wandering around in a field or talking to relatives for centuries upon centuries seems incredibly dull.

I'd love it. Just spending time with my son would be enough for me.

 

[JupiterBnG]

You find debating dumb people to be mental exercise? OK.

You missed the part where he called atheists dumb, and I was just repeating his argument back to him while substituting "Christian" in place of "atheist?"

 

[khruuton]

That's a cop-out. From a faith-based perspective, I understand why you take the position, but philosophically, you're abandoning reason by doing so, and wondering why people trying to engage in reason react negatively to it.

That's not a cop-out answer, and it's not an answer based solely on a faith based perspective. If you're going to debate 'What" Christians believe God to be...then you have to accept the discussion on those terms. It ISN'T our place to question God. He is the potter, we are the clay. Know where the response is coming from and don't dismiss it.

If God exists, I'm sure he could have. My question has more to do with, what is the point of it all? We can dive into the paradox of free will vs. an all-knowing God (again), but I don't imagine anyone will really gain anything from hashing that out once more. God must have created us for a purpose. What is that purpose? If we're not fulfilling that purpose, why would a perfect God bother with keeping us around? So he could "love" us? Funny way of showing it, with all the tragedy and horror in the world that he could prevent. So we could "love" him? What's to love, when no one can even know for certain God exists? The relationship between God and Man is like buying a puppy, and then putting that puppy in a box in the garage and never thinking about it again. It will suffer, wonder what it did to deserve this horrible life, and die alone. I would have found it a lot easier to be a believer had I lived in OT times, when you could reasonably expect to talk to a bush, or see a pillar of fire, or any number of profound miracles.

It is simple. God created us to have a relationship with Him. One of our own free will. God is concerned with our eternal life where the relationship comes full circle. Your puppy analogy doesn't work because God didn't leave us alone in the garage left to wonder. He sent prophets. He came down and manifested Himself in the flesh (the Incarnation) and suffered right along side of His Creation. He left His Word...The Bible. There is progressive revelation that has been given. You can't claim He hasn't mapped out the entire salvation plan for all of mankind. Whether you agree with HOW God has chosen to save us or whether you don't agree with His method, you cannot claim God didn't leave a guidance system. It's all here in this world historically, and it's also contained in the Bible. Jesus Christ existed. All that's left is debating His Divinity.

So you're saying God is bored with us, and decided to go hang out somewhere else? Sort of like the Clock-maker, who creates the universe and lets it just run, without interference, according to natural laws? Only in this case, he tinkered with us for a while before he decided to leave us alone?

Call God into your life. He's there. He hasn't left anyone alone unless they don't seek Him out. You're totally aware of the story of God. You can't claim ignorance upon when you meet Him.

Again, I get that. But what's the point? What does God stand to gain from imperfect mankind, assuming that he didn't create us for no purpose at all? If he didn't want slaves, or worshippers, what function do we perform for him? Entertainment?

A loving relationship with us. That's the point. He wants us to depend on Him, to seek Him out, to be with Him. You have to choice to explore this relationship. It's totally up to you.

But, if we apply the logic of the free-will-vs-omniscience debates we've had here in the past, God KNOWS, without predetermining your fate, how you will ultimately be judged. If God knows all things, then he already knows how you will be judged, and has for all time. It's an exercise in futility - why create something that he knows will fail him? What proof can be made to a God that already knows all things, including whether you can "prove" your commitment?

Foreknowledge does NOT equal Causation.

If you have children you absolutely KNOW at times when they're going to disobey you and be bad. Sometimes to the point of physically and or mentally hurting themselves. Did your foreknowledge cause the event? No. Did your foreknowledge of the event sever the relationship with your kids? NO. When done right, your kids will realize that you have wisdom about events and they will learn to TRUST you.

Likewise, God left us rules to live by. First the 10 commandments. And God totally knows NONE of us can live up to those rules. But if we try...our lives will be better. And because we CANNOT ever hope to never break those rules, God sent Jesus to become the sacrifice that covers our sins. Accepting Christ allows your sins to be covered by Jesus' death and resurrection. Instead of seeing our fatal flaws...God sees the perfection of Jesus.

This isn't hard. The bill has been paid for you. Accept it and believe. But you HAVE to accept Jesus. Even the demons know Jesus is the Messiah. But they don't accept Him. You're too busy complicating what God simplified for all of us.

Accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior and you will be in that relationship with God. That's your purpose. To love Him as He ALREADY loves you.

 

[USDA#1]

welcome back, khruu.

 

[fedderone]

That's a cop-out. From a faith-based perspective, I understand why you take the position, but philosophically, you're abandoning reason by doing so, and wondering why people trying to engage in reason react negatively to it.

I'm not abandoning reasoning and I'm not copping out. Let's again talk humans to equate what I'm trying to say. If a human adult kills a human baby, I/you/we can sit and specualte all we want about WHY that human adult did that. Do you really believe either one of us are capable of knowing what thought process took place in his mind? In legal terms, judges don't allow you to say, "He knew what I was talking about." The judge immediately strikes that from the record. You cannot comment on the operation of another's mind. Same thing here. I can speculate just the same as you, but it doesn't make me right, or you. It makes us both having an opinion that's unprovable. I can't answer for God. In my belief, I don't question God. You can. I understand why non-believers do. I've had extensive conversations about the subject.
If God exists, I'm sure he could have. My question has more to do with, what is the point of it all? We can dive into the paradox of free will vs. an all-knowing God (again), but I don't imagine anyone will really gain anything from hashing that out once more. God must have created us for a purpose. What is that purpose? If we're not fulfilling that purpose, why would a perfect God bother with keeping us around? So he could "love" us? Funny way of showing it, with all the tragedy and horror in the world that he could prevent. So we could "love" him? What's to love, when no one can even know for certain God exists? The relationship between God and Man is like buying a puppy, and then putting that puppy in a box in the garage and never thinking about it again. It will suffer, wonder what it did to deserve this horrible life, and die alone. I would have found it a lot easier to be a believer had I lived in OT times, when you could reasonably expect to talk to a bush, or see a pillar of fire, or any number of profound miracles.

Well, what about us humans having kids? What's the point of having kids? Or what's the point of having a puppy as a pet? We can love both of them, raise them and teach them the best we can, but it's entirely possible they do something we didn't teach them or raise them to do. The dog could bite someone unprovoked. The kid could grow up and embezzle millions of dollars from retirees or go on a killing spree even though I never taught them that or they didn't grow up in such an environment. Are you saying I had a funny way of raising my kid/dog because they acted on their own against my will/wishes/teachings? I loved my kid/dog less and that I'm the warped one for them acting the way they do?
So you're saying God is bored with us, and decided to go hang out somewhere else? Sort of like the Clock-maker, who creates the universe and lets it just run, without interference, according to natural laws? Only in this case, he tinkered with us for a while before he decided to leave us alone?

No, you're twisting this and using the wrong analogy. Why would God create all slaves that did EXACTLY as He said, when He said, how He said? What "fun" would that be? When you lined up your GI Joes, or army guys, Transformers, Barbies, Care Bears, whatever - was it a utopian society of bliss and happiness or was there any conflict? Again, I can't possibly give you the inner workings of another humans mind, let alone God's. I'm simply offering the best speculation to your "why" question.
Again, I get that. But what's the point? What does God stand to gain from imperfect mankind, assuming that he didn't create us for no purpose at all? If he didn't want slaves, or worshippers, what function do we perform for him? Entertainment?

If I saw on the news you killed someone, but I never got a chance to talk to you face to face or even on the phone, do you think I'm qualified to answer someone else on why you did that with a definitive 100% irrefutable answer? Again, you want me to comment intelligently on the operation of someone else's mind. Human or God, it's not possible. I can only guess and speculate until I'm given a chance to ask God Himself, if ever. Same as just guessing until I actually spoke to you on why you killed people in the scenario I detailed above.
But, if we apply the logic of the free-will-vs-omniscience debates we've had here in the past, God KNOWS, without predetermining your fate, how you will ultimately be judged. If God knows all things, then he already knows how you will be judged, and has for all time. It's an exercise in futility - why create something that he knows will fail him? What proof can be made to a God that already knows all things, including whether you can "prove" your commitment?

I give the example of Peter denying God three times and Judas betraying God and handing him over to the authorities. God knew what would happen, but neither of them did. They most certainly could have acknowledged God or not turned God over to the authorities. That possibility existed to them. Like a Choose Your Own Adventure book. The possibility exists for them to do something other than what they chose to do. God knowing the outcome is irrelevant to the fact that the choice was theirs/is ours. Again, you want me to tell you WHY and that's an impossibility. I can only speculate with the best of them on the WHY portion of it.