Report: Pouncey to Sign a 5-year Extension

[antdrewjosh]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...k-injury-history-steelers-c-maurkice-pouncey/

 

[Franco]

Too much money for a good not great player who has a history of season ending injuries and who is dominated by the bigger NTs he faces.

 

[Punxsutawney]

I'll use what I've observed on the field in that I do not think Pouncey has been "that" good since his rookie year four years ago.

Maybe it's just me, but he simply hasn't been the same player since having his ankle rolled on in the AFCC game against the Jets and has been getting by largely on reputation ever since.

Many of the same scouting services, such as Scouts Inc and PFF, that had him rated among the top 2-3 centers in the league in 2010 had him rated in the average 10-20 range in 2011 and 2012.

Perhaps his age adds some value here, but I'm not exactly thrilled about this, as I'm among those that did not detect much drop off between Pouncey and Velasco, particularly in pass protection.

 

[Idioteque]

While Pouncey's deal makes him the NFL's highest-paid center, in a couple of seasons, he'll probably be the seventh or eighth highest-paid player at his position.

That's an important point. I'm not concerned about the size of the contract. It's market value, and probably 80% of the time you either pay market value or lose the player. I think Pouncey is a good enough center to lock up long-term; it's a bit of a gamble, but he could be truly special in a zone scheme. I think Munchak can do huge things with the OL talent we have and Pouncey looks like a co-anchor (need a franchise OT next year). So, if the options are lose him or pay him what he'd get elsewhere, I'd probably squeeze him in.

Here's the thing, though. Pouncey and Mack, both top-five NFL centers, just got pretty identical deals:

Mack - 5yr / $42M with $26M guaranteed
Pouncey - 5yr / $44M with $26M guaranteed

The market goes up at every position just about yearly, but the center position won't next offseason. There are no notable young free agent centers who will hit the market and skyrocket the value of the position. So, even if Pouncey stays healthy all year and goes All-Pro again, he could be probably be had for this same price tag next year. I don't love the fact that we're so eager to lock the guy up that we pay (literally) top dollar before he's even proven his health, consistency, and fit into the new scheme. Why the hurry? I really think this braintrust sometimes scrambles way too much to keep the status quo and keep holes filled by "proven" guys who have only proven to be average. They elevate those guys beyond their actual worth, then pay them like they're already sought-after free agents. Worilds is making the NFL's second-highest OLB salary just to fill a hole. We turned down a 3rd for Sanders just to fill a hole. We paid Starks more than he was worth just to fill a hole. ****, we threw money at Chris Kemo just to fill a hole.

Now, Pouncey is much better than average. He's not Manny Sanders. He would probably deserve a top-level contract on the open market next season. I just wish they had taken at least the preseason to evaluate all of his red flags. But if Pouncey is truly worth it, which I think he probably is, then this won't be a contract to regret.

 

[Punxsutawney]

Now, Pouncey is much better than average.

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that view, but it's beside the point of what really concerns me with this.

It's a rather large financial commitment to a player directly coming off such a severe injury and who has suffered several leg injuries in his short career.

It's a big risk, especially for an interior linemen. It's not like we're talking a LT or pass rusher here.

 

[Idioteque]

I'm not sure I entirely agree with that view, but it's beside the point of what really concerns me with this.

It's a rather large financial commitment to a player directly coming off such a severe injury and who has suffered several leg injuries in his short career.

It's a big risk, especially for an interior linemen. It's not like we're talking a LT or pass rusher here.

Yep, that's another issue. Now, we've seen widebodies the likes of Casey Hampton come back just fine from ACL surgery, but it's still a risk for anyone who tears it. And Pouncey has accumulated leg injuries. That should be leverage for the Steelers to not pay the highest center salary.

 

[madinsomniac]

I think this is taking into account that the cap goes up accordingly the next few seasons... remember, the Woodley contract is probably more palatable if the cap wasn't artificially kept low a few seasons after the new CBA... Pouncey gets through the freak injuries from people crashing onto his legs and plays to his potential and Decastro continues to improve and frankly this gives the Steelers the strengths up the middle they were lacking for a decent part of the last era right as Ben gets less mobile

 

[Stoney]

Would love for his brother to find his way to our LG position when he's UFA.

Yeah, just what we need, bookend serial-killer side kicks. Maybe we can get the whole gang back together by hiring A. Hernandez to coach our TE's from a booth in Walpole State Prison...

 

[Wingman]

Velasco did a great job, but he doesn't have Pouncey's athleticism. This cat can move, and pull, which is why Dirt was so special. He makes us better and allows us to do more things that Munchak can take advantage of. Looking forward to these guys playing healthy this year! Fingers crossed...

Memory is sometimes not as accurate as we would like but I do not ever remember seeing Dawson's Power from Pouncey. He did move well and was a very quick study having outstanding football smarts. Dawson was a truly great center. Cleveland over paid for Mack as that was the only way to keep him, the guy was actively looking to escape. I think Pouncey could have been had for less given his injury history. Not saying that it was his fault or that he contributed to them in any way. The damage is there and it is a risk to me that a player that has been injured has been weakened in the area of the injury and is likely to be less than he was before the injury even though he puts forth heroic effort to over-come the injury.

 

[Wingman]

Yeah, just what we need, bookend serial-killer side kicks. Maybe we can get the whole gang back together by hiring A. Hernandez to coach our TE's from a booth in Walpole State Prison...

My thoughts as well. One article stated Mike Pouncey was also involved somewhat in the drugs floating around the team in the past. Do not recall if this was in college or in the pros. Do not know if there is any truth to it or not. But it at least raises some concerns and would involve more investigation prior to my wanting to bring in what may be a bad apple. Also, showing support for an individual that was likely involved in more than one murder that was carried out in a cold and calculated way would have me considering that to be an off the field issue.

 

[Xc944]

Personally I hate the deal and the direction the team is going under Tomlin and co. Pouncey was horrible leading into last season everyone seems to forget that. He looked like he was going to have a miserable season and luckily he gets hurt right away to save him from that. Add in the fact he's a ierkoff who we still don't know what is in his past and the amount of money it's just a team killing deal. You can't pay Timmons 9.5 worilds 9 and pouncey this kind off money and build a good team. Were waaaaaaaYyyyyyy over paying players and that hurt us on the end badly

 

[antdrewjosh]

What is going on here. We just locked up the leader to our Oline. The best player on our Oline. One of the best centers in the league if not best and all i see is bitching. Nevermind that the contract is constructed without alot of guaranteed money. He is young and entering his prime. Healthy and obviously showing he is back to his old self. We bought in the best OL coach in the league and we arent supposed to sign our best lineman so he can learn from him. You guys talk about the RAH RAH(myself included) guys on this site but the Debbie Downers are just as bad. How can anyone turn this into a bad thing is beyond me. Yes he has had some injuries but people falling on your legs dont make you soft or injury prone. More unlucky then anything. IMO Pouncey was a must sign.

 

[ark steel]

Lol..."lucky" to get a season ending injury that could have put his career at risk if there were any complications.

Wasn't it the first series? Pretty low sample size to determine that he was going to have a miserable season.

 

[antdrewjosh]

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...rkice-pouncey-contract-details-talked-enough/

More contract details

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Personally I hate the deal and the direction the team is going under Tomlin and co. Pouncey was horrible leading into last season everyone seems to forget that. He looked like he was going to have a miserable season and luckily he gets hurt right away to save him from that. Add in the fact he's a ierkoff who we still don't know what is in his past and the amount of money it's just a team killing deal. You can't pay Timmons 9.5 worilds 9 and pouncey this kind off money and build a good team. Were waaaaaaaYyyyyyy over paying players and that hurt us on the end badly

One of the worst posts of the offseason lol lol lol

A guy gets hurt by his own player on the first freggin drive of the season- but we were lucky because, as you say, he was going to suck anyway?!? My Lord.

Then, the guy who is the indisputable leader of the offensive line, the person everyone looks up to- you call him a jerkoff? Because why??

At least Vader and Ideotique try to use some semblance of facts when they sh*t on the team- but you are flat out pathetic.....

 

[deljzc]

That's an important point. I'm not concerned about the size of the contract. It's market value, and probably 80% of the time you either pay market value or lose the player. I think Pouncey is a good enough center to lock up long-term; it's a bit of a gamble, but he could be truly special in a zone scheme. I think Munchak can do huge things with the OL talent we have and Pouncey looks like a co-anchor (need a franchise OT next year). So, if the options are lose him or pay him what he'd get elsewhere, I'd probably squeeze him in.

Here's the thing, though. Pouncey and Mack, both top-five NFL centers, just got pretty identical deals:

Mack - 5yr / $42M with $26M guaranteed
Pouncey - 5yr / $44M with $26M guaranteed

The market goes up at every position just about yearly, but the center position won't next offseason. There are no notable young free agent centers who will hit the market and skyrocket the value of the position. So, even if Pouncey stays healthy all year and goes All-Pro again, he could be probably be had for this same price tag next year. I don't love the fact that we're so eager to lock the guy up that we pay (literally) top dollar before he's even proven his health, consistency, and fit into the new scheme. Why the hurry? I really think this braintrust sometimes scrambles way too much to keep the status quo and keep holes filled by "proven" guys who have only proven to be average. They elevate those guys beyond their actual worth, then pay them like they're already sought-after free agents. Worilds is making the NFL's second-highest OLB salary just to fill a hole. We turned down a 3rd for Sanders just to fill a hole. We paid Starks more than he was worth just to fill a hole. ****, we threw money at Chris Kemo just to fill a hole.

Now, Pouncey is much better than average. He's not Manny Sanders. He would probably deserve a top-level contract on the open market next season. I just wish they had taken at least the preseason to evaluate all of his red flags. But if Pouncey is truly worth it, which I think he probably is, then this won't be a contract to regret.

I agree with this.

I don't have my panties in a bunch over the contract amount as much as I think the timing felt a little forced. Not really sure why now is the correct answer for this deal. We have no one else on the roster that will use the franchise/transition tag next year (unless you consider Cortez Allen). That avenue we have used numerous times in the past and was available to us.

I just think when you have the availability to gain more information on a player at little-to-no cost, you do it. There are actually more cost savings associated with getting Allen under contract NOW vs. next year than Pouncey. The contract he signed is the same he would sign if we tagged him with the franchise tag (maybe more guarantees in year 2-3 but we'll know more too about his age 26-27 years). The contract Allen signs now could be significantly different than the contract he signs 12 months from now and the franchise tag really isn't available for Allen due to his price range. There is much more risk of losing Allen to a "good year" than Pouncey.

Just doesn't really make sense to me.

 

[SteelerFan448]

We have no one else on the roster that will use the franchise/transition tag next year (unless you consider Cortez Allen).

Would they be able to use one on Worilds again next year or was that removed in the new CBA?

 

[antdrewjosh]

I posted in another thread there was a report that the steelers have made their best and final offer to Worlids. He rejected it.

 

[ark steel]

That's an important point. I'm not concerned about the size of the contract. It's market value, and probably 80% of the time you either pay market value or lose the player. I think Pouncey is a good enough center to lock up long-term; it's a bit of a gamble, but he could be truly special in a zone scheme. I think Munchak can do huge things with the OL talent we have and Pouncey looks like a co-anchor (need a franchise OT next year). So, if the options are lose him or pay him what he'd get elsewhere, I'd probably squeeze him in.

Here's the thing, though. Pouncey and Mack, both top-five NFL centers, just got pretty identical deals:

Mack - 5yr / $42M with $26M guaranteed
Pouncey - 5yr / $44M with $26M guaranteed

The market goes up at every position just about yearly, but the center position won't next offseason. There are no notable young free agent centers who will hit the market and skyrocket the value of the position. So, even if Pouncey stays healthy all year and goes All-Pro again, he could be probably be had for this same price tag next year. I don't love the fact that we're so eager to lock the guy up that we pay (literally) top dollar before he's even proven his health, consistency, and fit into the new scheme. Why the hurry? I really think this braintrust sometimes scrambles way too much to keep the status quo and keep holes filled by "proven" guys who have only proven to be average. They elevate those guys beyond their actual worth, then pay them like they're already sought-after free agents. Worilds is making the NFL's second-highest OLB salary just to fill a hole. We turned down a 3rd for Sanders just to fill a hole. We paid Starks more than he was worth just to fill a hole. ****, we threw money at Chris Kemo just to fill a hole.

Now, Pouncey is much better than average. He's not Manny Sanders. He would probably deserve a top-level contract on the open market next season. I just wish they had taken at least the preseason to evaluate all of his red flags. But if Pouncey is truly worth it, which I think he probably is, then this won't be a contract to regret.

I'm fine with most of what you have here, except for the bolded part. I haven't looked, but if there are no notable young centers available in free-agency wouldn't that make Pouncey's market value greater? Sure, no one would get a huge contract ahead of him to 'set the market', but it seems there would be several teams interested and only one good young free agent center available. The seems the epitome of low supply/high demand which can escalate the costs.

I still don't know why it is done now.

 

[antdrewjosh]

You guys dont think it would of been more of a gamble to wait. He has a great year and then he demands more with more guaranteed money thru the length of the contract.

 

[ark steel]

You guys dont think it would of been more of a gamble to wait. He has a great year and then he demands more with more guaranteed money thru the length of the contract.

Certainly, possible, but I don't, necessarily, mean wait until mid-late season, I mean, at least into a couple of pre-season games. It'd be nice to see how the knee holds up in pads with contact and someone not on his team trying to destroy it.

 

[SteelerFan448]

You guys dont think it would of been more of a gamble to wait. He has a great year and then he demands more with more guaranteed money thru the length of the contract.

I am good with the deal...maybe not for the total amount, but it is what it is. Pouncey was one of my offseason targets to extend along with Roethlisberger, Allen and Heyward (before his option was picked up). I am curious to see what they do with Gilbert moving forward.

 

[antdrewjosh]

More on Worlids

http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...lers-multi-year-offer-table-lb-jason-worilds/

 

[Xc944]

One of the worst posts of the offseason lol lol lol

A guy gets hurt by his own player on the first freggin drive of the season- but we were lucky because, as you say, he was going to suck anyway?!? My Lord.

Then, the guy who is the indisputable leader of the offensive line, the person everyone looks up to- you call him a jerkoff? Because why??

At least Vader and Ideotique try to use some semblance of facts when they sh*t on the team- but you are flat out pathetic.....

Sorry here are the facts pouncey was one of the worst lineman in the preseason in the entire league and showed no signs of being even a decent lineman last year. He's been on the decline since his rookie year and him gettin hurt didn't allow the dumb *** steelers to see how far he's fallen. Ironically the so called leader as you say wasn't part of he best offense points wise that we've had since he's been here. We sure missed him. It's ok now that he got his money to run his drug rings and do his rap albums I'm sure he will be working hard on his craft. This one will come back to bite the steelers. I repeat yes he luckily got hurt or he wouldn't have gotten a contract near this for the way he has been playing. 8-8 here we come again

 

[ark steel]

Do they have hats for the best preseason centers?