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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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I can't make up my mind about this pick yet. But the one big negative that keeps sticking in my head is the point that TMC made about the fact that, since he will not be an every-down type player, as soon as he steps on the field, teams will key on him. He is essentially reduced to a decoy. No bueno, unless he can manage to be on the field for more than a handful of plays which will significantly cut down on the "defense knows what's coming" factor
 
I'm surprised no one has talked about this, but the most similar case to this isn't Chris Rainey.

It's Garrett Wolfe (draft class of 2007).

Garrett Wolfe was a division II star. Got Heisman talk. In 3 seasons at Northern Illinois he rushed 807 times for 5164 yards and 58 touchdowns. He was a monster in college.

But he was 5'-7" and weighed around 180 lbs. At the combine he came in heavy on purpose at 187 but played at 180 or less. He ran a 4.39 40-yard dash. He had a 4.08 shuttle and 6.69 3-cone. Incredible speed and change of direction skills.

He had a great game against OSU:

http://youtu.be/U_N4jeoGz2M

But the draft pundits were afraid of his size and labeled him a 5-6 round prospect.

And wouldn't you know it, a team got sucked in. It was the Bears, who selected Wolfe #93 overall in the 2007 draft.

He went on to get only 89 touches in the 4 seasons of his rookie contract. Was not picked up after than and faded into the NFL graveyard.

That's the problem. Wolfe was AMAZING in college. Man among boys in Division II. Showed up BIG against the #1 team in the country.

Went to the NFL, got hurt, couldn't deal despite all the measurables and hope you have for him. Granted, I know Archer is a better returner, but he's not a better runner than Wolfe. No way. Wolfe had better vision and is much more of a "cradle" running back than Archer.

Yet Wolfe never got going.

It's HARD to take the path Archer is taking. The odds are just so far away from him being successful in an NFL offense. Returner? Maybe. A weapon in an NFL caliber offense? Highly doubtful.
 
Beat that dead horse, beat the hell out of it! Maybe the NFL will let them have a do over and un-select him in a couple weeks if enough fans *****.
 
Supersteeler said:
Beat that dead horse, beat the hell out of it! Maybe the NFL will let them have a do over and un-select him in a couple weeks if enough fans *****.
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Nah, that's not what masses want. The Steelers need to cut their losses now and dump Archer pronto. No point in having him go through camp, pre-season, etc. would just be wasting time. Throw-away pick, it's time to get rid of Archer now.
 
Archer is fast enough to be targeted and people still can't catch him.
 
keslerclan said:
Ace Sanders - in college, a receiver and punt return man with 99 receptions (funny, Archer had EXACTLY the same number of receptions in college). Only 12 carries. (Archer had 325)
- as a first year pro, on a **** team with horrible QB play, he had 51 receptions. More than any year in college. (we have better WR talent and a QB so he won't get 51 w/ us, IMO)

He is a much better receiver than Ace Sanders was a SC, IMO and had as many catches in college. The difference being Archer doesn't run a 4.58 (4.26) 40, he has longer arms than either Sanders (29.5) or McCutcheon (29.25) at 31" (which is substantial). His hands are larger than McCutcheon's (8 3/8) and the same as Sanders at 8 7/8" AND he had a higher vertical leap (38") than Sanders (32") by 6".

We shall soon see if he is a 'boy' in a "mans world" on Sundays but he has the requisite skills to become something more than a utility player. Kiper said he would be the offensive rookie of the year ahead of Watkins (fat chance, but I'll take it). I think Tom is upset at seeing this "blindside pick" and Connor Shaw going to the Browns too. :confused: At least the Browns cut Vince Young (Jamies Winston I) in order to make room for Connor! Sorry TMC, I used to like the kid.
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You think I am upset because I was blindsided by the pick? Really? Why was I upset about Rainey then? I really do not take much issue with guys taken in the 5th or later because I view those as throw away picks since so very few make it. My only issue is, when you spend your draft picks, of which you get 7 a year, do not spend them on players that have traits that consistently fail in the NFL. I do not want 4.80 forty corners either. I do not want 275 pound offensive linemen. I do not want 400-pound nose tackles. It has nothing to do with being blindsided. If that were the case, Shazier was much more of a surprise because Archer was being pimped by other Steeler fans as being all that and a bag of chips (just not on this site). Did not like him prior to us drafting him, not going to nuzzle up to his nuts just because the FO screwed the pooch.

And, to state that he is a better receiver than Ace Sanders is downright laughable. Sanders, as unathletic as he is, shows traits of a receiver, like making adjustments to the ball in the air. He challenges down the seams and can go up and get the football, even as limited as he is. He makes catches routinely of passes above his head. He will also go down to the ground and make catches, two things Archer struggles doing. He runs a full route tree, actually played the edge and slot. He understands how to set up a DB with his route running and then use his only redeeming quality, his quickness, to get separation. All of that is things Archer struggles to do. Now, Archer worked with plenty of screens and dump passes where he ran after the catch and put up numbers, but when asked to press down the field with the wheel routes, deep ins, and corners, he was rarely successful and failed to get separation. Furthermore, he struggled to go up against corners and make plays on the ball, and these were not SEC corners, but SUX corners, because most suck so bad they won't see football again unless it is on TV.



I show that to say this, I would not have pissed away a 3rd round pick on Sanders either. I love SC players....when they are good. Sanders showed well for the Jags, but you can bet as they add more talent to their WR pool, Sanders touches and time there will diminish.
 
antdrewjosh said:
I brought them up because saying he is like them is only telling half the story. Yes he has great speed like them. But he also has something they did not. Which is the ability to make someone miss in small areas. Neither Wallace or Parker did. Randle el was able to make you miss but didnt have great speed. That was my point. Archer has both attributes. Lets not also pretend that he doesnt have production at the college level. Reggie Dunn is not a good comparison. Lets not act like the kid only scored on gadget plays.
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You are right, it only tells have the story. The other half would be that Wallace, Parker, and ARE all have NFL size and can play football at this level.

Reggie Dunn did not just score on gadget plays either. He played at Utah. The actual comparisons are somewhat similar, although Archer did have significantly more total touches. Dunn had 40 carries for 330 yards and an 8.3 YPC average. He also had 31 receptions for 355 yards (11.5 YPC). He was a kick return specialist that averaged over 30 yards per return for his career, facing a higher level of competition. His junio season, in the Pac-12, he avered 11.5 yards per carry on running plays. He averaged 14.1 YPC as a receiver. His biggest asset was his return ability, which is the main reason Colbert stated he wanted him. Everything else was gravy. So, don't pretend like they just drafted LaDainian Tomlinson.
 
Idioteque said:
Steelarz wins!!

Because Steelers.

Sheesh.
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Should have drafted this guy:
invincibletony.jpg


He was not used properly in Philly.......
 
No dog in this fight for me, so it should be interesting to see whose opinion Archer proves right. I mean, from what I'm seeing in this debate, the kid has no chance to be a "serviceable pro". He's either gonna be either all world or a colossal bust.
 
There is also heart and drive and a little luck involved as well. Will he stay healthy? Will he hold onto the ball?

I hope for the best for all the picks and hope he develops into something. But IMO enough of a risk factor that DA should have been picked later.

All we can do at this point is cross a finger and hope for the best.
 
TMC said:
You are right, it only tells have the story. The other half would be that Wallace, Parker, and ARE all have NFL size and can play football at this level.

Reggie Dunn did not just score on gadget plays either. He played at Utah. The actual comparisons are somewhat similar, although Archer did have significantly more total touches. Dunn had 40 carries for 330 yards and an 8.3 YPC average. He also had 31 receptions for 355 yards (11.5 YPC). He was a kick return specialist that averaged over 30 yards per return for his career, facing a higher level of competition. His junio season, in the Pac-12, he avered 11.5 yards per carry on running plays. He averaged 14.1 YPC as a receiver. His biggest asset was his return ability, which is the main reason Colbert stated he wanted him. Everything else was gravy. So, don't pretend like they just drafted LaDainian Tomlinson.
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When did I say this?? Show me one instance where i used hyperbole to describe Archer abilities.

And last i checked it hasnt been proven that Archer cant play at this level. I dont know if he can nor am i willing to say he cant based on anything else but his play.
 
TMC said:
And, to state that he is a better receiver than Ace Sanders is downright laughable. Sanders, as unathletic as he is, shows traits of a receiver, like making adjustments to the ball in the air. He challenges down the seams and can go up and get the football, even as limited as he is. He makes catches routinely of passes above his head. He will also go down to the ground and make catches, two things Archer struggles doing. He runs a full route tree, actually played the edge and slot. He understands how to set up a DB with his route running and then use his only redeeming quality, his quickness, to get separation. All of that is things Archer struggles to do. Now, Archer worked with plenty of screens and dump passes where he ran after the catch and put up numbers, but when asked to press down the field with the wheel routes, deep ins, and corners, he was rarely successful and failed to get separation. Furthermore, he struggled to go up against corners and make plays on the ball, and these were not SEC corners, but SUX corners, because most suck so bad they won't see football again unless it is on TV.
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Yes, but that stuff doesn't matter/can be learned.
 
antdrewjosh said:
And last i checked it hasnt been proven that Archer cant play at this level. I dont know if he can nor am i willing to say he cant based on anything else but his play.
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You can say that about Michael Sam and all of the 7th-rounders and undrafted guys, too. Doesn't mean taking them in the 3rd is a smart move.
 
Kent State's Dri Archer 33 yd TD catch: http://youtu.be/1jmdGC7eUHk

Looks like good corner route to me vs a safety. Look im not saying he will be a superstar. Im just saying im definitely not in the he CANT, has NO SHOT, WASTED pick category.
 
If the only complaints with the pick was that he was taken in third I wouldnt be saying anything. Especially when one of the first things I said was when the pick came up I was screaming for Desir or Bryant. But who am I to question when a pick is taken. My board is more then likely nowhere close to what an NFL teams is. They valued him they took him.
 
Well, he ran one corner route against a Ball State corner that got sucked down and was beaten by a weak break. Missed that one. HOF here we come.

 
JupiterBnG said:
This is my objection, in a nutshell. He may have speed, but just like Rainey, not enough to overcome the fact that defenses will key on him the moment he steps on the field. You have two options: hand him the ball and hope he makes something out of nothing, or use him as a decoy and hope it creates a mismatch somewhere else. Either way, I would rather not pin our hopes on trickery succeeding, in lieu of just getting talent that can hope to beat the opponent straight-up. There's a time and place for trick plays, but that time and place is when the opponent DOESN'T expect them. The problem with guys like Rainey and Archer in an NFL offense is they practically scream "TRICK PLAY! WE'RE RUNNING A TRICK PLAY HERE! CHECK US OUT!"
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One other thing to consider when running him in is not giving him the ball and maybe more than one guy bites on the fake. Because just as everyone thinks here he is he is going to get the ball. He has spent a season playing wide out and running back so maybe he goes in and runs a streak, with his speed the safety or corner will have to go with him and that can let someone be open underneath. He should be in the area of the safety before much else is going on. This guy can add a lot to the offense as a decoy just because of his speed.
 
I think he will have some nice kick returns but someone always gets a flag for holding so it won't matter.
 
Idioteque said:
You can say that about Michael Sam and all of the 7th-rounders and undrafted guys, too. Doesn't mean taking them in the 3rd is a smart move.
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Either you missed it or it needs to be re-said, "what round was Archer PROJECTED to be drafted"???

I shall wait on your response.
 
bermudasteel said:
Either you missed it or it needs to be re-said, "what round was Archer PROJECTED to be drafted"???

I shall wait on your response.
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3-4. And Manziel was a first-round lock. Sure glad we didn't pull that trigger.
 
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Sabin said:
Yeah, the term Supe used here was "all that and a mouthful of nuts."
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no. I said "looking for the peanut in the loaf"
 
Idioteque said:
3-4. And Manziel was a first-round lock. Sure glad we didn't pull that trigger.
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So basically he went right where he was expected??
 
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