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Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

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Idioteque said:
Yes, just like Manziel. But I'm not sure Manziel would have been the best choice for us in the 1st.
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Yeah, because picking a kr/wr/rb is just like picking a qb.

So, I guess we found this years Lawrence Timmons. Good to know.

Joe
 
Who said anything about Manziel. Not understanding what he has to do with Archer. Oh i know you just cant answer with out adding some extracurricular bullshit.
 
t-man said:
Yeah, because picking a kr/wr/rb is just like picking a qb.

So, I guess we found this years Lawrence Timmons. Good to know.

Joe
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"Yeah, because..." has become the most commonly used opening for a post here.

antdrewjosh said:
Who said anything about Manziel. Not understanding what he has to do with Archer. Oh i know you just cant answer with out adding some extracurricular bullshit.
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Well look who's all pissy yet again.

We'll never know Archer's true value until a player talks about it in a Steelers history DVD interview. Real football talk only takes place with the NFL Films music in the background.
 
SteelBuckeye said:
No dog in this fight for me, so it should be interesting to see whose opinion Archer proves right. I mean, from what I'm seeing in this debate, the kid has no chance to be a "serviceable pro". He's either gonna be either all world or a colossal bust.
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I guess I don't see anyone saying he is going to be all world. Didn't read the whole thread, though. Us stupid folks just hope he works out.
 
ark steel said:
I guess I don't see anyone saying he is going to be all world. Didn't read the whole thread, though. Us stupid folks just hope he works out.
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I've just never seen a "serviceable pro" like him, that's all. As TMC said, there may be a great 275-pound LT someday, but I doubt I'd be the one to draft him due to overwhelming historical and common-sense evidence.

Obviously, I hope it works out as well. Somehow, I retain my Steeler fandom despite hating the pick.
 
Idioteque said:
"Yeah, because..." has become the most commonly used opening for a post here.



Well look who's all pissy yet again.

We'll never know Archer's true value until a player talks about it in a Steelers history DVD interview. Real football talk only takes place with the NFL Films music in the background.
Click to expand...

Yep the usual. Everytime you say something "over the top" the dick on your forehead gets bigger. Im sure its big enough for you to go **** yourself.
 
Idioteque said:
"Yeah, because..." has become the most commonly used opening for a post here.



Well look who's all pissy yet again.

We'll never know Archer's true value until a player talks about it in a Steelers history DVD interview. Real football talk only takes place with the NFL Films music in the background.
Click to expand...

Speaking of those "Steelers history dvd's" I just saw a nice clip on our old pal Jack Lambert, you know a fun fact I wasn't aware of, he was drafted to play OLB, but then due to injury they moved him to ILB. I never knew he was a bust, I mean, since I've seen the argument made here that if a player is drafted to play outside, but then moved inside, it means he's a bust.

I guess ya learn something new everyday.

Joe
 
ark steel said:
I guess I don't see anyone saying he is going to be all world. Didn't read the whole thread, though. Us stupid folks just hope he works out.
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Everyone hopes he works out. We have to. No other choice. We used a 3rd round pick on him. That is a lot of value, to me anyway. But, I guess I view third round picks differently than the front office because twice in the last 3 years they used a 3rd on a guy that looks to be a return man only (IMO) and then gave up a potential 3rd round pick to rent a mediocre WR for a year. Maybe they view 3rds as throwaway picks.

Here is the thing, history tells me the odds of him being ANYTHING other than a return guy are exceptionally slim. Miniscule. The problem is, when you state that, people will begin to state, yeah but......and then they list speed/quickness and throw out players with lesser speed/quickness and how they made it, forgetting that they had other traits that are very significant. Or, they say yeah, but this guy made it who has similar size, but played a completely different position (often for years) and are more polished at that position and it is as if Archer can just transform into that player, with limited experience and obvious limitations. Or, they say yeah, but and offer some other type of excuse.

Again, this is it in a nutshell. Archer was a RB in college. He played in the slot some, but if you watch complete games of his, it was less than 5 routes a game in most instances. He is a RB first and a return guy. The Steelers sent out the RB coach to talk him up. Right now, we have 2 RBs that will make the roster ahead of Archer. If he went in as a WR, doubtful he even makes the team ahead of guys like Moye, because he is raw as holy hell. So, the WR comparisons do not hold and frankly, the majority of players his size that made it in the NFL made it at WR, not RB. Why? Because players that size can survive on the edge where 300+ pound linemen do not fall on them as much and linebackers fail to get those nasty shots. As I have stated, Archer lacks the body control most WRs learn through repetition. He can leap, seldom does. Rarely high points passes and can struggle with passes above his head. He also struggles going low on passes. He has some ugly drops, body catches a lot. Prone to fumbling. Cannot pass block well because of his size. Iffy route runner, does not have crisp breaks. Small catch radius. Lots of issues with him as a receiver. Much better prospect as a runner, still has ball security issues. Still small, can be strung out as he almost always looks to bounce outside. Better defenses contained him, strung out most plays. Runs a lot of gadget plays, jet draws, screens, reverses, etc. He is what he is.

The Steelers will use him as a kick returner and will hope he can learn to return punts, which to me has more value. They will run a few gadget plays with him hoping to get some value, thinking his speed and elusiveness can just beat NFL defenses. Unlikely, but we will see. They will, hopefully begin to work with him as a slot receiver, teach him how to make body adjustments to the ball, catch more with his hands, run routes that have clean corners and use his quickness (not speed) to get initial separation from the DB and then use that speed to run away from guys. Again, to me, best case scenario is in year 3 he has developed enough as a receiver to be a slot guy. YEAR 3 is my hope to get some value out of this.....

With all that said, I think you could have found a return guy (namely a punt returner) that plays the WR position in the 3rd and not had to wait until year 3 to see the true value. And, potentially, that slot WR could have been a little thicker, a little more muscle on him, so he can take the beating they receive in the NFL.

But, he is ours now.
 
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...teelers-rbwr-dri-archer-natural-punt-catcher/
 
We did draft a returner specialist with slot receiver skills who was a bit undersized (still weighed 185 lbs). Went to a small school. Excelled at a variety of things.

Except we used the 195th pick on him not a 97th pick on him. That's the area of the draft you can find punt returners that might be able to develop into helping an offense.

His name was Antonio Brown.
 
In the same press conference, Coach Tomlin said
This guy [Archer] lines up out if the backfield and is a legitimate route runner that shows a skill set conducive to doing some real receiver things, as opposed to a running back removed from the backfield, so … This is a guy that will create some unique opportunities for us from the package standpoint… Is he a running back or a wideout – he’s a splash playmaker…"

More Tomlin on Archer
“This is a guy that is going to create some unique opportunities for us from a package standpoint in terms of him getting identified,” coach Mike Tomlin said. “Is he a running back? Is he a wideout? Regardless of position, I think he’s a playmaker. He’s a guy that gets yards in chunks and rings up the scoreboard.”


Steelers WR coach Richard Mann
When I saw him, not that I’m playing back memories, but I had a little guy in Cleveland named Gerald McNeil, they called him ‘Ice Cube,’ and he reminds me of him. He was a very important receiver for me, so I think after talking to Coach Tomlin and Coach Saxon, he’ll probably move from running back to receiver to return guy. I can visualize us ‘jerry-rigging,’ is the word I use, stuff for him, things he can do well and not just put him in every down but ‘jerry-rig’ stuff for him where everybody knows he’s going to get it, but they just can’t do anything about it.
What we did with Gerald McNeil was make sure we had a plan for him and we stuck to it. I think when you have guys like that, in my opinion, when you give them too much sooner or later you lose them. Football is a big man’s game, there is a place for the small guy, but you have to utilize them correctly and he’ll be a tool and a weapon. That’s what we did with ‘Ice Cube’ and this guy reminds me of him so much when he has the ball in his hands. He’s going to be fun to look at.
 
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antdrewjosh said:
Steelers WR coach Richard Mann
When I saw him, not that I’m playing back memories, but I had a little guy in Cleveland named Gerald McNeil, they called him ‘Ice Cube,’ and he reminds me of him. He was a very important receiver for me, so I think after talking to Coach Tomlin and Coach Saxon, he’ll probably move from running back to receiver to return guy.
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His "important" WR had 24 catches in 4 years. Not sure WTF he is talking about.
 
antdrewjosh said:
http://www.Invalid Link - Check SN ...teelers-rbwr-dri-archer-natural-punt-catcher/
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Just not much of a "punt carrier" since he fumbles quite possibly more than any prospect I've ever seen.

Or a "get tackled once he has the ball" guy since he's tiny and constantly injured.
 
LOL. More press conference quotes. Because who's more honest and forthright than a coach in an interview?
 
Honestly, people. Do any of you really, truly expect a coach or GM to publicly say negative things about their draft pick? Has it ever happened?

"Yeah, we took him in the third, but I'm not so sure about this guy. He's really small and nobody with his frame and injury history and fumble problems has ever really made it in the NFL. I'm kinda on the fence on this guy."

Talk about a fair, objective source. I mean, why don't we just ask Archer's mom for a scouting report?
 
Idioteque said:
Honestly, people. Do any of you really, truly expect a coach or GM to publicly say negative things about their draft pick? Has it ever happened?

"Yeah, we took him in the third, but I'm not so sure about this guy. He's really small and nobody with his frame and injury history and fumble problems has ever really made it in the NFL. I'm kinda on the fence on this guy."

Talk about a fair, objective source. I mean, why don't we just ask Archer's mom for a scouting report?
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if we asked her for one and asked you for one, somewhere in the middle would be the truth.
 
I understand why he is saying great things about Archer. I don't understand why he brings up a player from 25 years ago and espouses great things about his wide receiving abilities when anyone with a computer and half a brain cell can find out that it is bullshit.
 
So other then an ankle injury and being probable for a game with a shoulder what other injuries did he have?
 
[video]http://www.steelers.com/video-and-audio/videos/Press-Conference---5th-Round---Todd-Haley/d8265060-031f-4d1f-95ac-fefb5d93a90f[/video]

..............................
 
antdrewjosh said:
So other then an ankle injury and being probable for a game with a shoulder what other injuries did he have?
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Missed most of their 2012 bowl with a knee injury.

Those are the only publicized injuries (three notable ones in a one-year span, yikes). But considering he was ALWAYS a part-time player in college, I can't help but wonder how many other nagging injuries have limited him. I mean, he was a Heisman candidate with 8-9 yards per rush his last two years. Why didn't they feature the guy?
 
Idioteque said:
"Yeah, we took him in the third, but I'm not so sure about this guy. He's really small and nobody with his frame and injury history and fumble problems has ever really made it in the NFL. I'm kinda on the fence on this guy."
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And, apparently, the truth is they did no homework on the guy, were sitting there in the third round, napping, when someone woke them up to make their pick. They didn't know what to do, so opened their spreadsheet of Combine results, sorted by fastest 40 and wrote the name down.
 
Perspective. 2nd round picks are a 50/50 chance to bust out, why does everyone on this board constantly expect us to never ever gamble on 3rd round? The last true 2nd round bust I can remember this team having was Sweed. I'd say that's pretty ******* good. Hell, first round picks bust at a only slightly less than 50/50, how much do you think it drops from there? I know numbers and math aren't everyones strong points, but we all know it's rare for everyone to have an impact, if you never gamble, you never win.

http://walterfootball.com/nfldraftology408_2.php

Joe
 
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