The Dem **** Show starts tonight,

[Superman]

so the way I read those links, Tibs, is that:

1) The Obama admin was trying to get friendlier with Russia
2) The Obama admin wanted Russia to help with Iran
3) The Obama admin did not believe the people would believe them if they said that the Russians were attempting to rig the election in favor of Trump, i.e. too many Americans were too stupid to believe otherwise.

#3 was NOT for Obama to decide. If he had evidence, clear-cut undisputable evidence, he should have said so publicly. Sure, this may have damaged relations with Russia and likely with having Russia help with Iran, but which is more important - our own country or Iran?

Also, this lies at the very heart of the Obama foreign policy. All those "red lines" drawn in the sand and zero back-up/retaliation for crossing those lines showed we were weak in leadership. Weak. The ******* United States of America. Weak. Because our elected POTUS could not and would not back up the retaliatory statements he said would happen. Weak. And you applauded him every ******* inch of the way. Verbally fellated him, too.

And you have the goddamned gall to laugh at and belittle President Trump for NOT waging some sort of assault in Iran after shooting down a drone? You and Flogomanbun hammed it up that the strike was called off "10 minutes" prior to beginning - suggesting that Trump did not even inquire about human casualty until that point. Whereas the actual reports were that it was called off 10 minutes prior after Trump made the inquiry. Two entirely different things. But, OrangeMan bad. Oh, and ******* forge that we waged a cyber intervention on Iran this week in retaliation for that drone being shot down.

 

[Tibs]

Trump's campaign manager, walk of shame....moments ago... the dude that handed over polling data to the Russians, who was in nearly constant communication with the Russians. Who. Ran. Trump's. Presidential. Election. Campaign.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Manafort’s walk of shame. Someone just yelled, "Traitor!" <a href="https://t.co/VBEtZpdEOV">pic.twitter.com/VBEtZpdEOV</a></p>— Max Howroute (@howroute) <a href="https://twitter.com/howroute/status/1144336659586146310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[Steelworth]

He's definitely not an American Patriot like Michael Avenatti.

 

[Superman]

Trump's campaign manager, walk of shame....moments ago... the dude that handed over polling data to the Russians, who was in nearly constant communication with the Russians. Who. Ran. Trump's. Presidential. Election. Campaign.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Manafort’s walk of shame. Someone just yelled, "Traitor!" <a href="https://t.co/VBEtZpdEOV">pic.twitter.com/VBEtZpdEOV</a></p>— Max Howroute (@howroute) <a href="https://twitter.com/howroute/status/1144336659586146310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

you know - **** off, Tibs. YOUR beloved O had more than enough opportunity to stop anything related to this and chose not to. While you patted him on the back. Per your own words and actions related to anything Russia collusion related, Obama ****** the entire country and like the petty ***** he is, didnt have the decent goddamn courtesy to give us a reach around.

So every ******* time you post something about this senseless bullshit, you're doing nothing more than verifying that you're a-ok with the country being ****** over as long as it's by anyone with a (D) next to their name.

 

[Tibs]

So you're mad at President Obama for not stopping whatever was going on between the Russians and the Trump campaign. But you're not mad at Trump and his campaign for whatever was going on with the Russians.

I think I follow your logic here.

 

[Steeltime]

Trump's campaign manager, walk of shame....moments ago... the dude that handed over polling data to the Russians, who was in nearly constant communication with the Russians. Who. Ran. Trump's. Presidential. Election. Campaign.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Manafort’s walk of shame. Someone just yelled, "Traitor!" <a href="https://t.co/VBEtZpdEOV">pic.twitter.com/VBEtZpdEOV</a></p>— Max Howroute (@howroute) <a href="https://twitter.com/howroute/status/1144336659586146310?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

His crimes had to do with tax evasion, failing to register - offenses many years before Trump announced his candidacy. YEARS before.

Connection between Manafort and the Russian efforts in 2016? Mueller says this:

"And, as discussed in Volume I, Section V.A, supra, the investigation did not identify any evidence that any campaign official or associate knowingly and intentionally participated in the conspiracy to defraud that the Office charged, namely, the active-measures conspiracy described in Volume I, Section 2, supra. Accordingly, the Office did not charge any Campaign associate or other U.S. person with conspiracy to defraud the United States based on the Russia-related contacts described in Section IV, above."

 

[Superman]

So you're mad at President Obama for not stopping whatever was going on between the Russians and the Trump campaign. But you're not mad at Trump and his campaign for whatever was going on with the Russians.

I think I follow your logic here.

incorrect. again. but par for the course.

I'm disgusted with you for patting Obama on the back the entire time he willfully allowed this to happen. While he spyed on a political opponent. While he broke the law in doing so. All for political gain.

What you've posted has **** all to do with anything. What you INTEND to post shows that you're still duped by the spineless ***** we had in office for 8 years.

 

[Steeltime]

So you're mad at President Obama for not stopping whatever was going on between the Russians and the Trump campaign. But you're not mad at Trump and his campaign for whatever was going on with the Russians.

For the third time in this thread, Tibs:

1. The Trump team had no association with the Russian efforts. NONE. Not a single American was involved, as it turns out.
2. Trump actually had no power before January, 2017, and therefore as a matter of absolute fact, COULD NOT "DO ANYTHING."
3. Unlike Obama, who took several steps - the "stand down" order, the failure to advise Americans of the problem, the efforts to mollify Russia on missiles in Europe - that protected Russia until AFTER the election.

And trust me - if Hillary had won, Obama would not have done one ******* thing against Russia.

 

[Tibs]

For the third time in this thread

You can post the same **** a thousand times, it still misses wide of the mark.

...the report itself sure seemed to include evidence of a lot of collusion-adjacent activities by those in Trump’s orbit.

Where that seemed perhaps clearest was in the work of former Trump campaign chairman Paul Manafort, who was part of the campaign from March to August of 2016 and has already confessed to finance and corruption crimes that have resulted in him being sentenced to serve more than seven years in federal prison.

According to details in the Mueller report, Manafort may have additionally colluded with a Russian government intelligence agent while working on the Trump campaign. Here are key points from the report that pertain to Manafort, some of which we already knew and some of which we didn’t, and what they mean:

• As we knew, Manafort worked closely with Konstantin Kilimnik, who the FBI has assessed to be “tied to Russian intelligence.” One detail we learned: According to a former co-worker at an international nonprofit they both worked for, “Kilimnik was fired from his post because his links to Russian intelligence were too strong.” Manafort’s deputy, Rick Gates, also suspected Kilimnik of being a “spy.”
• As had been previously reported, Kilimnik worked closely with Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch to whom Manafort owed a large sum of money, due to a previous conflict over a consulting job. According to analysts, Deripaska has deep and direct ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Manafort may have additionally colluded with a Russian government intelligence agent while working on the Trump campaign.

• The report notes that Manafort instructed Gates to “provide Kilimnik with updates on the Trump campaign—including internal polling data.” According to Mueller, “Manafort expected Kilimnik to share that information with others in Ukraine and with Deripaska. Gates periodically sent such polling data to Kilimnik during the campaign.” We knew that some polling data had been shared, but we did not know the extent of it and what exactly was shared.
• During the period he was working for the campaign, Manafort met with Kilimnik to discuss what the Manafort described as a “backdoor” peace plan that would allow Russia to take permanent and legally recognized control of Eastern Ukraine. After Trump won the presidency, Kilimnik told Manafort that all the plan needed was a “very minor ‘wink’ (or slight push) from [Donald Trump].”

In sum, this is all pretty shady. Why isn’t it shady enough to be criminal and why did it result in a finding that Barr has repeatedly summarized as “no collusion”? Mueller says that his team wasn’t able to prove that the campaign, beyond Manafort—who was the chairman of said campaign—was involved. Mueller also notes, though, that Manafort lied to his office repeatedly and that Mueller’s team did not have access to messages from multiple encrypted apps. As the report puts it: “And while Manafort denied that he spoke to members of the Trump campaign or the new Administration about the peace plan, he lied to [Mueller’s] Office and the grand jury about the peace and his meetings with Kilimnik, and his unreliability on this subject was among the reasons that the district judge found that he breached his cooperation agreement.”

Basically, we only know that Trump and his campaign did not work with the Russians on this “backdoor” plan to give Russia Eastern Ukraine if you take Manafort’s word for it, which—as evidenced by the above quote from the report—the special counsel does not.

And what about that polling data? Could it have been passed along and ultimately used by the Russian troll farm that Mueller charged with a conspiracy to interfere in the U.S. election, due to their efforts to target voters on social media? “The Office could not reliably determine Manafort’s purpose in sharing internal polling data with Kilimnik during the campaign period,” Mueller writes. “Because of questions about Manafort’s credibility and our limited ability to gather evidence on what happened to the polling data after it was sent to Kilimnik, the office could not assess what Kilimnik (or others he may have given it to) did with it.” Ultimately, Mueller couldn’t find evidence that there was a connection “between Manafort’s sharing polling data and Russia’s interference in the election” through the Russian troll farm.

The report also details how Trump’s campaign chairman had his deputy share “internal polling data prepared for the Trump Campaign by pollster Tony Fabrizio” via WhatsApp and those communications were deleted “on a daily basis.” When Manafort briefed Kilimnik on that data, he also discussed “ ‘battleground’ states, which Manafort identified as Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Minnesota.” And both Manafort and Gates assumed that data would be shared with a close Putin ally in Deripaska. What happened next to the data is a mystery. Mueller could not prove one way or the other whether it was used in Russia’s attack against the 2016 election—but Mueller did note that his team had a “limited ability” to gather such evidence.

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/04/mueller-report-paul-manafort.html

Trump, Manafort and the whole Trump orbit of lying traitors put the s in shady. Congrats, this is the guy you've all hitched your cart to.

 

[IndySteel]

I don’t know why you guys waste your time trying to convince a delusional irrational socialist Hungarian ******** fuckwaffle of any sane point of view.

 

[Tibs]

Nice to see Democrats actually doing something about Russia's full borne attack against our sovereign elections. Now let's see what McConnell and the GOP Senate does with this. Keep your eyes wide open.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: The House just voted to safeguard our elections. The SAFE Act will:<br> <br>&#55357;&#56819;️Replace outdated & vulnerable voting equipment<br>&#55357;&#56541;Mandate paper ballot voting & post-election audits<br>&#55357;&#56507;Create strict cybersecurity requirements for voting systems<br> <br>2020 is coming. Let’s be prepared.</p>— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) <a href="https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1144354680983687169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
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[Vader]

Nice to see Democrats actually doing something about Russia's full borne attack against our sovereign elections. Now let's see what McConnell and the GOP Senate does with this. Keep your eyes wide open.


<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">BREAKING: The House just voted to safeguard our elections. The SAFE Act will:<br> <br>��️Replace outdated & vulnerable voting equipment<br>��Mandate paper ballot voting & post-election audits<br>��Create strict cybersecurity requirements for voting systems<br> <br>2020 is coming. Let’s be prepared.</p>— Adam Schiff (@RepAdamSchiff) <a href="https://twitter.com/RepAdamSchiff/status/1144354680983687169?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 27, 2019</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

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Why not go to a national ID card to make sure other foreign governments like Mexico are not stealing our election?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Why not go to a national ID card to make sure other foreign governments like Mexico are not stealing our election?

Pencil Neck Shiff's proposal looks like a grade school thesis.

But you know as well as anyone, we need IDs for medicine, guns, driving and a million other things. But to force a national ID card for voting is racist.

 

[wig]

Thanks for thinking of me wig, appreciate it!

While I find I normally don't agree with you, I do still see you as part of our family. I do think of you and I feel badly sometimes as you are maligned. You're like Rocky Balboa though, you just keep taking those punches.

Congrats, this is the guy you've all hitched your cart to.

How could we NOT? The only other option was a career criminal and (at very best) one of the most incompetent people ever to be allowed access to secret information. Literally, Charles Manson was a better candidate. At least Charles could get **** done.

 

[SteelChip]

incorrect. again. but par for the course.

I'm disgusted with you for patting Obama on the back the entire time he willfully allowed this to happen. While he spyed on a political opponent. While he broke the law in doing so. All for political gain.

What you've posted has **** all to do with anything. What you INTEND to post shows that you're still duped by the spineless ***** we had in office for 8 years.

But...But...he was so clean, articulate and well spoken.

 

[wig]

Does anyone even remember who Hillary's running mate was? Seriously THAT's how little I even considered her for the presidency.

 

[Steelworth]

Does anyone even remember who Hillary's running mate was? Seriously THAT's how little I even considered her for the presidency.

Right? I think it was Tim Kaine but your point stands. Even my liberal friends hated her guts. She's one of the most loathsome politicians of the modern era.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Does anyone even remember who Hillary's running mate was? Seriously THAT's how little I even considered her for the presidency.

Tim Communist Kaine

 

[Tibs]

Even my liberal friends hated her guts. She's one of the most loathsome politicians of the modern era.

Indeed she was. Trump won't have the fortune of running against her this time. And hopefully will get a lot less help from Putin & the Russian GRU.

 

[SteelChip]

Does anyone even remember who Hillary's running mate was? Seriously THAT's how little I even considered her for the presidency.

Damn...you're right, I can't remember either.

 

[wig]

Oh Jesus. "The Russians....Ohhh. Ohhhh. Ohhh..." You give FB entirely too much credit.

The democrats best shot is if they circle the wagons the **** up around Biden. There isn't one other candidate that stands a snowball's chance in hell. Honestly, what candidate could unseat Trump? Bernie has the star power, but he's entirely too ******* old to even be taken seriously from the get-go. Then throw on top of it his full-on socialist views and he's unelectable.

After that, you have Biden. He's as boring as milk-toast, but honestly that's what the democrats NEED! They need a moderate who can somehow appeal to middle America and give them some hope he and his party can do SOMETHING for them.

Everyone else is making their top issues completely unrealistic and fairly-land **** that will do NOTHING but bleed the realistically possible votes away from someone (Biden) who MAY have a chance,

Then, if Biden DOES make it past the dem primaries, they have to seriously get together and stop infighting and work on selling the above, that the democratic party can SOMEHOW help middle America. Cause right now ALL they are focused on is "minor" America. The democrats are so ******* busy (business as usual) chasing fringe votes and locking up the minority vote that they COMPLETELY ignore the middle class (who is SUPPOSED to be the people they are fighting for.)

 

[xjx]

**** the Democrats.

 

[Steeltime]

Indeed she was. Trump won't have the fortune of running against her this time.

The list of candidates the (D)ims have compiled is not inspiring. Jeez, the party has not drifted left - it has made a hard left, off a cliff.

And hopefully will get a lot less help from Putin & the Russian GRU.

Mueller determined that the Russians had zero effect on the votes.

Meanwhile, you seem fine with Goolag, Fakebook, YouLose, etc. censoring conservative thought and overtly trying to throw the election. Does not bother you in the least.

Tell me if I'm wrong.

 

[wig]

I need you to understand this Tibs.

I have been a democrat my entire life. I didn't even vote for Reagan in 4th grade. I voted for Jimmy ******* Carter! (True it was in the 4th grade, but in OUR class election I voted for ******* Jimmy!)

I was outraged when Gore lost the "hanging chad" election in Florida. Thought it was BS.

I was frustrated when Ohio went for Bush instead of Kerry. (You know Kerry won the POPULAR vote!) Turns out that didn't matter for ****. As it shouldnt'.

I voted for O in the first election. (I hoped for change).

Then I watched as America became more and more polarized under O's watch. I saw more and more riots. More and more attacks on both sides. I saw people dropping ******* cinder-blocks from overpasses down on police officers. I saw a guy walk IN TO a police station and start killing police officers and he was hailed by the media and the administration as a victim of misunderstanding and long-time oppression.

I watched as the republicans party put moron after moron up against Obama. How was Obama going to lose to Cain and ******* "I can see Russia from my HOUSE!" lady? Seriously? That's a ******* slam dunk after a 3 on 1. And then Mitt Romney? Really? That's the BEST the republicans got? Damn me all the hell, I voted for Obama again. And what does he do? More of the same. The economy begins to falter. HIs progress in jobs creation and unemployment declines, his healthcare program cripples EVERYONE in the country. Through his incompetence and inaction he gets our foreign diplomats killed, he doubles down on the notion that police officers are people to be disrespected and marginalized.

But, I survived it. Democrat Baby! But when the democrats rolled out Hillary ******* Clinton - Are you ******* kidding me? Are you seriously ******* kidding me? That's like asking somebody to vouch for the neighbor they watched push their own child out into traffic to die. Hillary Clinton is ALL THAT IS BAD in American Politics distilled into one horrible little person. She makes Henry Kissinger look like the guy we should consider for the next ******* Pope!

So, you suck it up. You vote AGAINST Hillary Clinton. Yep. That's what you do!

And what happens then? The liberals freak the **** out. I mean they freak out like the WORLD ******* ENDED! How they failed to see that Hillary Clinton NEVER could have won that election is beyond me. What kind of a crazy America-hating ************ would VOTE for that chick? Seriously. Who in their RIGHT ******* MIND would vote for Hillary Clinton?

The media begins the "retribution tour". 24/7/52 attacks on Trump. Every conceivable thing they can come up with to attack - they attack. Every person in Trump's administration - Attack! Trump's wife, daughter and son? Attack! And through it all, Trump begins quietly doing all the things he said he'd do.

He improved the unemployment rate by incentivizing the economy and bringing back American manufacturing jobs.
He proposed a tax solution that ultimately "cut taxes" but still made more money in tax revenue than during Obama's reign.
He put it to congress to come up with better immigration reform but they refused, causing the mess at the border right now.
He caused North Korea for the first time, literally EVER to talk with us and even consider de-escalating their weapons programs.
He's applied more sanctions to those 'evil Russians' than any President has ever done since the cold war started.

All while being constantly besieged on every side by a ravenous media and democratic party that will stop at NOTHING to discredit (literally) his every single move.

And now what are the democrats responding with? One weak candidate (Biden) and a slew of frickin' nut jobs that want to give EVERYONE who votes for them free EVERYTHING! And if they ever did get elected they'd instantly blame Trump and the evil republican congress and senate for thwarting their noble plans. Oh well, so sorry. Vote again next time!

 

[wig]

I mean, I was irritated when Ken Starr did everything in his ******* power to crucify Bill Clinton for banging Monica Lewinski. I mean, Clinton was the ******* president. If he wants to bang a ******* intern - bang away. It MAY not have been the best idea to do it in his office, but whatever. So ya, I was annoyed with the whole impeachment thing.

But what the democrats did with Stormy Daniels? Seriously? The guy wasn't even in politics. He was JUST SOME ******* RICH GUY who probably got a little on the side. Ya, It aint pretty, but to wait years and years and THEN bring it up. Shove it into the news and media and try desperately to make a giant deal out of the fact that a guy 'may' have had an affair BEFORE he was in politics?

And the BEST part of the whole ******* thing is that ultimately Stormy Daniels was arguing (through her retard lawyer) for the right to PROVE that she'd violated the terms of her own non-disclosure agreement so if she won she'd have to pay Trump millions and millions of dollars. That's IF she proved that she'd had an affair and then violated the terms of her agreement. Because she's THAT ******* stupid. She was never ANYTHING but a tool for the democrats who used her and then threw her away. Stupid.

And then this Russia ****... Ya! Let's spend over 2 YEARS looking into something that at BEST will prove that the democrats used illegal, unethical and just generally Nixonian bullshit to spy on a candidate. Why? Because THEY ******* knew Hillary Clinton couldn't be elected in a one-person race for 2nd shittiest person on the planet!