The disconnect between the OC and the QB

[Coryea]

it's all Tomlin, we have changed OC's and the offense looks exactly the same. you want to know why we suck in the red zone because we don't use plays/formations to set up plays later in the game. we run the ball out of the 2 te 2 wr 1 rb set with success, instead of running some play fakes from that formation and throwing it we got to the empty back field to throw it. we run the ball 22 damn times early, yet we barely used the play fake. Cleveland uses the play fake on the majority of it's passes.
This is Tomlins offense.

 

[Wingman]

It is too bad Tomlin did not grow into/learn the position he was hired for. He has not led the team anywhere but down the hill. To use another phrase he has not just driven us from the road to success into the ditch, but taken us into the woods so far we can not even see the ditch or the road. We are now at a point where there is little on the team worth keeping. It would likely be a good idea to begin trading for draft picks and see what we can do to get rid of contracts and dead money. Even if we were able to get thirds for many of the former first rounders we have now it would be a plus for the new guy that should be picking the players in the next draft.

Mike Tomlin has done something no one has been able to do since I started watching the Steelers in the 60s, and that is make me no longer care if I do or do not watch the game.

 

[ark steel]

it's all Tomlin, we have changed OC's and the offense looks exactly the same. you want to know why we suck in the red zone because we don't use plays/formations to set up plays later in the game. we run the ball out of the 2 te 2 wr 1 rb set with success, instead of running some play fakes from that formation and throwing it we got to the empty back field to throw it. we run the ball 22 damn times early, yet we barely used the play fake. Cleveland uses the play fake on the majority of it's passes.
This is Tomlins offense.

You know there is another constant in poor red zone scoring, too, right?

 

[Rod Farva]

When we talk about the "constants" over the last 10 years or so the O line has to be in that conversation. The skill positions are in good shape. Like Burgundy said, 3/5ths of the line are BU quality and the other 2 aren't exactly HOF caliber, imo. Maybe it's just that everyone is tired of bitching about them but a vast majority of the woes (red zone and otherwise) of this O are traceable to them.

 

[blitzburghv5]

Roethlisberger has his flaws, but he's still a very good QB. I think this sentiment that he's easily replaceable is delusional, but that's beside the point I want to make.

I've always felt that Roethlisberger needs help from the running game for the team to maximize point production. They have finally established a running game that opposing teams have to respect, but the coaches seem utterly incapable of effectively integrating the pieces.

The objective should be prudently implemented balance where the running and passing complement each other by setting the other up with opportunities. There is absolutely no semblance of that with the Steelers.

In today's NFL, anyone who calls run on 22 of his team's first 28 plays is ******* MENTALLY ILL. Much of the blame falls on Haley, but Tomlin is equally responsible for signing off on that repugnant **** smear of a gameplan.

I get that....but arent WE the ones here who always talked about coaches GOING AWAY from what was working (ala Arians) ? Blount and Bell are avg'ing 4.5-5 yrds a carry. Cleveland was without its top 3 Def ends and lost another during the first half. We were gashing them with the run and now we question why we didnt GO AWAY from the run. I do agree we should mix it up but Cleveland was exposed by the run. But i do recall on a first and 10 (2nd qtr) we threw an incompletion to Heath and that put us behind the chains. And its plays like 3rd and 1 and passing 15 yrds downfield for an incompletion that kill me. Play the chains...sustain drives and stop taking sacks

My biggest problem with Haley is predictability. When Dri comes in the lineup, DRI GETS THE BALL.....or Dri runs between the tackles. Why not (misdirection) pitch to Dri and let him try and get the edge for a big play ? Why not incorporate more Heath....why not some slants....?...We did NOT work the entire field yesterday...we worked the edges only in the pass game. Keep the defense guessing if youre gonna mix it up.

But we had success running.......so we ran. And ran some more.

 

[blitzburghv5]

Dont know if its been mentioned but i believe one of the reasons we tried to run so frequently yesterday was BECAUSE we didnt want to expose our defense. Haley knows LeBeaus unit is the weaker of the collective group so perhaps he wanted to help em out and sustain clock eating drives with the run. Problem is, we didnt score TDs. I said this yesterday on the game thread that at some point Cleveland would rally...and sure enough after that dominating 1st qtr we came down and fouled that FG attempt and Cleveland struck fast the next drive---EXPOSING OUR DEFENSE!!!. It was essentially the momentum shift THEY needed and we never recovered. After goin up 21-3 we HAD to abandon the running game.

So perhaps they ran the ball for TWO PURPOSES...not just tryin to be cute. Im just guessing..........

 

[blitzburghv5]

it's all Tomlin, we have changed OC's and the offense looks exactly the same. you want to know why we suck in the red zone because we don't use plays/formations to set up plays later in the game. we run the ball out of the 2 te 2 wr 1 rb set with success, instead of running some play fakes from that formation and throwing it we got to the empty back field to throw it. we run the ball 22 damn times early, yet we barely used the play fake. Cleveland uses the play fake on the majority of it's passes.
This is Tomlins offense.

How did Ben do in redzonen efficiency under Whis ?........juggernaut ? Or were there opportunities ? We have always had issues punching it in unless we used the Bus. 2 HCs 3 OCs yet not one season do we avg more than 24 pts. Cant ALL be on Tomlin...not those pre-Mike years...you cant go there.

 

[Ghost of Frenchy Fuqua]

Cowher came to be known as Field Goal Bill for a reason.

 

[insaniti]

Early in Ben's career, when we would get down into the RZ, I can remember we were much more efficient. We played the numbers better. If it was goal to go inside the 5, expect the Bus, Parker, or a PA pass to a TE. If we were goal to go outside the 5, you could expect a quick slant to Ward or Heath.

Now, goal to go from the one, pass it three times. Bell doesn't have a lot of TD's because he isn't even given the opportunity. He had one chance yesterday, and it was blocked well. Whitner just made one hell of a stick on Bell. When Whiz was here, the reason we didn't score over 24 is the D. Once we hit that 20 pt range, we usually had a 10 pt lead. And we would turn to the running game to grind out the win. This obsession with scoring 30 points per game as the only way to justify our offense is ridiculous. The problem is we aren't very efficient on offense right now, and with the D struggling, it's making everything more difficult.

I think 3rd down conversions and redzone efficiency is what we should look at when comparing offenses.

 

[TDX27]

I think it is time to put Bryant in the games. The O sucks. We drafted him for his height and his red zone capability. Put him in and let him learn. He will be no worse than our current #4 and #5 WR's.

 

[wig]

I love the guys who want to get rid of Ben. I say go for it. We've got Landry Jones ready and waiting man. You've implied just about anybody can score 30+ points in today's NFL so I say we just turn the keys over and DO IT!

Course, your own argument implies that we can't get any trade value whatsoever for Ben because he has none... Hmm. That's a pickle there. Well, I guess we just cut him and void the last year of his contract. We eat a little cap space from his pro-rated signing bonus but I'm sure we make that up and more in Landry's contract! HUGE win for us and we're immediately scoring 30+ points a game. Maybe we'll get lucky and a division rival will pick Roethlisberger up so we play him at least twice a season for the next five years. (Imagine how Jones would DESTROY him in the stats department! Winning!)

Ya man. Let's cut Gradkowski too and get a rookie QB to backup Jones. We need to save all the cap space we can here. Since damn near ANYBODY can score points in this league we don't need Bruce either. We have all the talent and franchise firepower we need in Jones and the rookie can be learning under the golden arm. In fact, I'd say we wait until the last round or even sign an undrafted QB. Those guys come crazy inexpensive.

Tell you what. Maybe I should apply for the GM position. I got a feeling about this.

 

[Coryea]

We've had at least 3 dropped TD passes
this season as well, but does anyone really think Tomlin calling 22 run plays in the first 26 plays had nothing to do with everyone bitching about passing to
much last season? Tomlin was trying to prove a point.

 

[SteelerSask2]

It would be absolutely nothing to dump Uncle Kinky tomorrow morning. On their current coarse there is no way this team makes playoffs. You promote your best most experienced from within the Staff and you put most of it on Ben. You will find out just how much you can put on Ben and like I said what is the worst that can happen. we go 6-10 instead of 8-8. We have to get out of 8-8 anyway. All it means is lower draft pick. Iff this team goes 8-8 you are firing Uncle Kinky at the end of the year anyhow. They have two maybe three weeks max to make this move or it will likely be too late.

 

[deljzc]

Early in Ben's career, when we would get down into the RZ, I can remember we were much more efficient. We played the numbers better. If it was goal to go inside the 5, expect the Bus, Parker, or a PA pass to a TE. If we were goal to go outside the 5, you could expect a quick slant to Ward or Heath.

Now, goal to go from the one, pass it three times. Bell doesn't have a lot of TD's because he isn't even given the opportunity. He had one chance yesterday, and it was blocked well. Whitner just made one hell of a stick on Bell. When Whiz was here, the reason we didn't score over 24 is the D. Once we hit that 20 pt range, we usually had a 10 pt lead. And we would turn to the running game to grind out the win. This obsession with scoring 30 points per game as the only way to justify our offense is ridiculous. The problem is we aren't very efficient on offense right now, and with the D struggling, it's making everything more difficult.

I think 3rd down conversions and redzone efficiency is what we should look at when comparing offenses.

Not necessarily true

Since 2004 (Ben's first season) here is how we rank at POINTS PER RED ZONE APPEARANCE:

2004 - 25th
2005 - 3rd
2006 - 24th
2007 - 4th
2008 - 11th
2009 - 13th
2010 - 20th
2011 - 18th
2012 - 8th
2013 - 13th

For this decade the Steelers are 67.7% "efficient" (4.73 points) vs. the league average of 66.8% (4.68 points)

It's been a problem but more-so as just being "average" throughout Roethlisberger's career and a lack of improvement over the years.

 

[Superman]

welcome back, delz
(thanks for coming back, too)