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The tariff issue

RollRed

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I'm no economist by any stretch.... and correct me if I'm wrong which I'm sure many here will be glad to do.... but won't American retailers be forced to pass on the higher cost of imported goods to the consumer? If Walmart suddenly starts paying 20-30-40 percent more for the stuff they sell that it is brought in from other countries.... which is basically everything.... won't the prices then go up by at least the same percentage of the increases, if not maybe even a little more? I'm all for seeing stuffmade in this country again, but this isn't going to happen overnight. People living on $12 a hour can't afford to start paying 3 bucks for a roll of paper towels or 15 bucks for a box of garbage bags. If that were to happen,wouldn't that be really bad for the economy? Just sayin...
 
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Yes, it will also cause Mexico to retaliate which could slow exports there. I differ with Trump on this issue, trade war will not be good for our economy. And the wall is stupid.

Stop providing all government benefits to illegal immigrants and start enforcing laws against hiring them. Poof, no wall needed.
 
Or they just buy stuff from other countries....

It's not like Mexico is the only place that makes T-shirts....

I mean, what exactly CAN and IS ONLY built in Mexico? Some vegetables (which are often also grown in U.S.) will go up, but then farmers in the U.S. will make more money on those crops and things (after 3-4 years) will balance out. Peppers, Tomatos...

Then there is beer and tequila. Beers like Corona will go up (it's already WAY overpriced anyhow). Some major tequila brands will have to decide to cut their profits or lose out business to smaller, U.S. tequila producers.

Other than some agricultrue products, which America also produces and will profit from, and some name brand beer and tequila, I can't think of much else specific that is Mexico produces only.
 
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Or they just buy stuff from other countries....

It's not like Mexico is the only place that makes T-shirts....

And what's the purpose of that? Just to build this wall?

Mexico doesn't just make t-shirts, it grows produce that is used by American manufacturers, makes auto parts that are used to build cars in the US, and a wide variety of other things that are going to cause price increases on even American made products. The tariffs go to the federal government and the increased prices are paid by the consumer. It is basically a massive new sales tax on all of us.
 
Here is the list of Mexican exports to the U.S.

Sound like the exact things Trump WANTS to stop buying from them and instead by from U.S. made locations.

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top-mexico-exports.html

The infrastructure to make that stuff would take years to build and the labor costs will be exponentially higher. Do you really think there are a lot of people in this country who even want these jobs?

Not to mention,

America's exports to Mexico amounted to

$236.4 billion or 15.7% of its overall exports.

1. Machinery: $42.1 billion
2. Electronic equipment: $41.1 billion
3. Vehicles: $22.4 billion
4. Oil: $18.6 billion
5. Plastics: $16.5 billion
6. Medical, technical equipment: $6.7 billion
7. Iron or steel products: $5.2 billion
8. Organic chemicals: $4.8 billion
9. Aircraft, spacecraft: $4.3 billion
10. Iron and steel: $4.1 billion

We are exporting the stuff that helps them make a lot of this stuff.

Free trade is beneficial to both of us.
 
The one that worries me is China. A fuckton of **** sold here is made there. A lot comes from Mexico too, but I think China is the big one. Folks that are fortunate enough to have an income that can handle these increases will be okay, but there are millions of us that can't afford it. I've worked construction all my life, and when I was in the union and making a good wage with health benefits, I wouldn't have minded paying more for a while if it meant stuff was going to start being made here again down the road. But now that I work non union for less than half of my old wage and no benefits, I simply can't afford to pay anymore. Hell I can't afford it now lol. People tell me to go back to the union, but there isn't near enough work coming through the hall to make it these days.
 
We have already been in a trade war for 40 years. Trump is just the first president we have had in those 40 years who has decided to fight back. Free trade isn't free unless it's fair and reciprocal.
 
A lot of good points, but they can't just say **** you to us either. Our consumption is too important to them.
 
Allowing giant multinational corporations to dictate our trade policies at the expense of American workers isn't working either - I don't care how much junk you buy at Walmart.

China will bleed us dry eventually.

No doubt they are the bully on the block.
 
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The issue is the cheaper goods from mexico come from their 4 A DAY minimum wage... its all labor cost... not really product cost, and much of it it negated by shipping costs... with Wal mart,for instance, they will offer to buy a billion units of an item but force the base work for the product to move its factory to china or some other company that lets them pay a person less than a dollar a day.. they save a penny or two per unit, but to the company thats millions over time... if they did make the item here you are talking percentage wise maybe a few cents or a buck increase in price. Its not drastic...

Im not at all a fan of how the us does its minimum wage, but if tgey insist on doing it tgat way they have to equalize labor costs with countries that basically have near slave labor compensation
 
China has it's problems. Just like Japan was building everything, that just creates a middle class that doesn't want their children working in a factory for 12 hours a day either like they did.

Cheap labor only lasts so long, for every country.

I am for free trade, but it has to be fair and moral. You can't compete with slave labor, hide behind "free trade" and look the other way and just say "it's the way it is, our workers can't compete with slave labor, oh well".

None of these tariffs have happened yet. It's all a negotiation. And the % increases are outrageous on purpose. That's the way Trump does things. Of course the media will overreact and tell you how a 25% tariff on Mexican imports would cause the sky to fall, but there is NO WAY that is going to happen. If it ends up at 10%, I would be surprised but I bet there will be a lot of other pro-American stuff that goes along with that 10% as well.

The Mexican President can go back and tell his people he avoided a 25% tariff, Trump sells it as a win for American workers and the cost of our goods probably goes up 1% (at least those affected) and much of that is skimmed off by American corporations. Plus it adds another calculation in the process of where companies decide to build their manufacturing plants and possibly moves a few back to the U.S.

Let it play out before you condemn all these new trade deals. Trump is BY FAR the most qualified President to ever sit at the table on these things. It's partly why he won. Let him do what he's good at.
 
Big Labor Praises Trump!

You can't buy better headlines than this



Sanders, joined by Rust Belt Democrats, praises Trump for nixing TPP

Sen. Bernie Sanders (I-Vt), who campaigned hard against the Trans-Pacific Partnership in last year’s Democratic presidential primaries, praised President Trump for an executive order to officially pull the United States out of the deal.

“I am glad the Trans-Pacific Partnership is dead and gone,” Sanders said. “For the last 30 years, we have had a series of trade deals — including the North American Free Trade Agreement, permanent normal trade relations with China and others — which have cost us millions of decent-paying jobs and caused a ‘race to the bottom’ which has lowered wages for American workers. Now is the time to develop a new trade policy that helps working families, not just multinational corporations. If President Trump is serious about a new policy to help American workers, then I would be delighted to work with him.”

“I support President Trump’s issuing of an executive orders that will pull the U.S. out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) and his recent steps to renegotiate the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA),” Sen. Robert P. Casey Jr. (D-Pa.) said in a statement. “NAFTA has adversely impacted middle class families in Pennsylvania and the TPP would have cost jobs and hurt income growth, which is why I voted against fast tracking the deal in 2015.”

http://www.newsmax.com/Politics/bernie-sanders-union-leaders-praise/2017/01/23/id/770072/

------------------------------

AFL-CIO Praises President Trump’s Move to Withdraw from TPP, Renegotiate NAFTA, Target Big Pharma


AFL-CIO president Richard Trumka praised GOP President Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw from the Trans Pacific Partnership once and for all on Monday with an executive order officially killing the Pacific Rim trade deal.

http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...draw-tpp-renegotiate-nafta-target-big-pharma/

---------------------------

Teamsters Praise TPP Withdrawal, Labor Chiefs Describe "Incredible" Meeting With Trump


“The Teamsters Union has been on the frontline of the fight to stop destructive trade deals like the TPP, China PNTR, CAFTA and NAFTA for decades. Millions of working men and women saw their jobs leave the country as free trade policies undermined our manufacturing industry. We hope that President Trump’s meeting with Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Mexican President Enrique Peña Nieto on Jan. 31 opens a real dialogue about fixing the flawed NAFTA.

“We take this development as a positive sign that President Trump will continue to fulfill his campaign promises in regard to trade policy reform and instruct the USTR to negotiate future agreements that protect American workers and industry.”

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...thdrawal-describe-meeting-president-incredibl
 
The issue is the cheaper goods from mexico come from their 4 A DAY minimum wage... its all labor cost... not really product cost, and much of it it negated by shipping costs... with Wal mart,for instance, they will offer to buy a billion units of an item but force the base work for the product to move its factory to china or some other company that lets them pay a person less than a dollar a day.. they save a penny or two per unit, but to the company thats millions over time... if they did make the item here you are talking percentage wise maybe a few cents or a buck increase in price. Its not drastic...

Im not at all a fan of how the us does its minimum wage, but if tgey insist on doing it tgat way they have to equalize labor costs with countries that basically have near slave labor compensation

For most commodity goods, like regular food and stuff bought at average groceries and stores, and for things like machine parts, bulk commodities used in final production, machine assembly, etc. the labor cost is the dominant factor.

This is why cars are made just over the border, and iphones are made in China. If commodity costs are the same, then the other costs of production (utilities, land, labor, taxes, shipping, etc.) matter. Cheap energy, cheap labor and low taxes all favor the shipping of cheap items all around the world. The most easily controllable, especially in very poor countries, is the labor force. Thus the great supply of goods from SE Asia and Mexico.

Free trade was supposed to allow for this economic transfer to be balanced by the opposite directional trade of higher value goods, with superior technology. And, most would agree that even if this wasn't exactly balanced, getting China to make dirty stuff like chemicals and steel was better than doing it nearby. The ability of the very poor, on average, foreign worker to gain an improved lifestyle from the meager amounts they were to be paid was also a net global societal good.

This is a good trade off, if the cheap commodity goods are in relatively equal value to the high value stuff going in the other direction. But it is clearly unbalanced now, and the various governments, including and especially the dominant US, have chosen to use taxes, currencies and other local policies to corrupt this potential.

But you have to be careful what you wish for: by effectively raising the price on those now foreign cheap commodity goods, all consumers of those lower end commodity things like food, tvs, cars, etc. will have to pay more. The standard of living on both ends of less trading almost has to go lower.

If one was going to look at each trade deal, and attempt to rework with a long term goal, a good place to start would be all those countries with deals from politically important folks, including Buffet, Gates, Clinton, Gore, etc.....
 
Other countries still have too many restrictions on letting our stuff in. **** 'em. Tariffs make U.S.-made products relatively cheaper. Mexico's economy is not our problem.
 
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I am for free trade, but it has to be fair and moral. You can't compete with slave labor, hide behind "free trade" and look the other way and just say "it's the way it is, our workers can't compete with slave labor, oh well".

So you want to protect low wage workers by causing them to be unemployed....
 
Other countries still have too many restrictions on letting our stuff in. **** 'em. Tariffs make U.S.-made products relatively cheaper. Mexico's economy is not our problem.

And tarriffs lead to increased prices (inflation) and a lower currency that leads to higher net import prices. Beggar-thy-neighbour policies don't work for long.
 
And tarriffs lead to increased prices (inflation) and a lower currency that leads to higher net import prices. Beggar-thy-neighbour policies don't work for long.

But the other side of tariffs, and no one here is accounting for, is that if you don't restrict or tax imports of our stuff and trade unfairly then we won't restrict or tax imports of your stuff and trade unfairly.
The other thing with China, India, Pacific Rim, is that they have little or no environmental and worker protection regulations. I can't believe that any good Liberal would want to support business in countries that pollute the air and water and if a worker is killed or injured on the job they just sell his organs and bring in another one.
 
And tarriffs lead to increased prices (inflation) and a lower currency that leads to higher net import prices. Beggar-thy-neighbour policies don't work for long.

Neither does letting the other guys under cut you on price and deny you their markets. As Spike pointed out China is bleeding us dry.
 
Here we go

Mexican Immigrants Scramble To Send Money Back Home


Just in November alone, nearly $2.4 billion in cash was sent there, mostly by Mexicans and Mexican Americans working in the US. That's the most money Mexicans have sent back in a single month in the last 10 years. And it's more income than Mexico makes off oil.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u...ey-back-home/ar-AAmf63q?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

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Tax the transfers quick!
 
Here we go

Mexican Immigrants Scramble To Send Money Back Home


Just in November alone, nearly $2.4 billion in cash was sent there, mostly by Mexicans and Mexican Americans working in the US. That's the most money Mexicans have sent back in a single month in the last 10 years. And it's more income than Mexico makes off oil.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/u...ey-back-home/ar-AAmf63q?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=edgsp

This is why I laugh when people say that the illegals help California's economy.

No, they ******* don't. They use taxpayer money for free schooling, free medical care, free transportation, subsidized housing, drive down wages, and send billions of dollars to the Mexican economy.

Worst ******* idea ever to improve an economy? Uneducated, low-skilled illegals.
 

Interesting that you should point this out Ron. Hot rod online just came up with yet another article about substandard Chinese knock off performance parts.

This leads me to another point about us being in a trade war for the last 40 years. China in addition to being a currency manipulator has about the worst record in the world for respecting patents and intellectual property. They counterfeit everything from designer clothes to computer software. That's another way we lose billions to them every year. That has to stop and I think Trump realizes this and will put a stop to it.
 
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