Tomlin....he's driving a proud organization straight in to the ground.

[Wingman]

Tomlin's undisciplined team is going up against a desperate team on the road. That is two strikes against us there. He does not have 10 days to prepare. We could easily lose the next two.

 

[Vader]

So where are your facts? They disagreed on one pick? How many did they agree on? For example did they agree on Stewart? We know they disagreed on Edwards and Kearse what we dont know is what picks they agreed on. From 92 til 97 we are riding high. Here comes 98 what happened? 99? 2000? Who is to blame? Oh nobody you say. Lets blame economics. Why werent there guys behind the guys who got old or left ready to step in and play. The Steelers not being able to keep players wasnt a new thing. I mean all I hear now is how Tombert should of replaced all these great players. They have had ample time. Easy as baking a cake.

So here comes Colbert. Who has final say now? Still no QB. Here is Bill chance to get rid of the one guy holding him back. Did he? We all agree Bill had more say then he did under Donahue correct? So if he didnt want Kordell why is he still there. Finally they tire of Kordell and Cowher inserts Maddox. Or was that Colbert? Who was more then willing to bypass a potential Franchise QB and keep doing it the way he had the last twelve years until he was nudged into it. People say Rivers was his man well ok trade up to get him then. Nope not going to do that either.

Was Wallace not a free agent? There is still a limit this team will go on free agents. They still dont jump into free agency and get players they need. It has to be the perfect amount of circumstances.

I never said they both had to deal with the same issues. Never. Both have had different things to deal with. You wanna blame economics restraints for Cowher, I in turn can say Goodell changing the whole damn game around has affected the Steelers just as much if not more then anyone else. But thats just an excuse I know.

FACT: Cowher and Donahoe clashed over the draft.
FACT: Economics hurt the Steelers ONLY. Goodall changing the game effects EVERY team the same. Just like changing the rules during Noll's time. He won 2 more SBs because it effected everyone the same.
FACT: Every team has to let some FAs go. Here is a list from Cowher's time pre-Heinz field. Which is around the exact same time Tomlin has been the coach:

Louis Lipps, Wide Receiver
Yancey Thigpen, Wide Receiver
Andre Hastings, Wide Receiver
Ernie Mills, Wide Receiver
Charles Johnson, Wide Receiver
Kevin Greene, Outside Linebacker
Jerrol Williams, Outside Linebacker
Chad Brown, Outside Linebacker
Greg Lloyd, Outside Linebacker
Willie Williams, Cornerback
Rod Woodson, Cornerback
Merril Hoge, Running Back
Barry Foster, Running Back
Leon Searcy, Tackle
Eric Greene, Tight End
Neil O’Donnell, Quarterback
Gary Anderson, Place Kicker

Now you tell me that losing Mike Wallace, who NOBODY on this board wanted to keep is the same as that.

FACT: The ONLY thing you have to say about Cowher is the QB situation. That's all you have. What about Tomlin not being able to find an OLB? A left or right tackle? A ******* CB IN 8 ******* YEARS? Let's say Cowher ****** up and didn't try hard enough to find a QB. Blame him fine. But Tomlin not only hasn't had to find one but even with one has been gone from a SB win with almost every player being from Cowher's team to losing a SB to losing to Tim "*******" Tebow to 8-8, 8-8, 2 and 2. WITH A franchise QB. He hasn't found ONE ******* CB in 8 years. He still has Cowher's guy Ike starting. He had to bring back a Cowher LB in Harrison and DL in Keisel just to field a ******* team.

FACT: You're ******* delusional if you think these coaches had anywhere near similar circumstances.

 

[Turd Ferguson]

Tomlin's undisciplined team is going up against a desperate team on the road. That is two strikes against us there. He does not have 10 days to prepare. We could easily lose the next two.

If the Steelers lose to the Bucs, Jags and Browns in a row he should be run out of town.

 

[Idioteque]

If you haven't seen that, you are not paying attention.

I agree with a lot of your assessment. I don't care if they fire Tomlin tomorrow. My problem is absolving the players. My problem is this idea that if they bring in another guy, all this will be fixed. That is childish thinking. I seriously question if any coach can keep guys attention and focus for more than a year or so.

I can't think of a player who isn't ripped to shreds on here daily. Even Bell and Brown are getting plenty of blame for their celebrations, drops, etc.

The thing is, there are only two options with your coach: keep him or get someone else. We can't halfway switch coaches. Since most of the board realizes Tomlin's a joke, they lean toward "get someone else," Of course that wouldn't fix EVERYTHING but as another poster pointed out, a new coach is likely to weed out a lot of Tomlin's ****** players.

He'd also be likely to know the difference between 17 points and 16 points.

 

[Idioteque]

Also you keep saying my Tomlin love. When I have stated over and over I loved Cowher. He was the coach who finally turned us into a consistent winner. I was too young for the 70s teams.

And I'm not sure why some of you have to turn every Tomlin discussion into "Tomlin v. Cowher." I didn't realize they were the only two coaches on God's earth.

 

[Vader]

And I'm not sure why some of you have to turn every Tomlin discussion into "Tomlin v. Cowher." I didn't realize they were the only two coaches on God's earth.

They do that because they need to point out flaws in a good coach to give an excuse for Tomlin. See Cowher didn't win a SB every year. See Cowher won with Noll's players ETC.. They totally ignore the facts surrounding the situation because that doesn't fit their narrative. To them it's all the same. Cowher = Tomlin. It's like saying all presidents are the same. Hell don't worry about what's happening in the world or in the U.S. Carter is the same as Lincoln.

 

[Idioteque]

They do that because they need to point out flaws in a good coach to give an excuse for Tomlin. See Cowher didn't win a SB every year. See Cowher won with Noll's players ETC.. They totally ignore the facts surrounding the situation because that doesn't fit their narrative. To them it's all the same. Cowher = Tomlin. It's like saying all presidents are the same. Hell don't worry about what's happening in the world or in the U.S. Carter is the same as Lincoln.

I would rip Tomlin if our previous coach was Greg Schiano or Paul Brown. For most of these people, the standard is "Being decent and sometimes making the playoffs." Personally, I think the goal should be contending yearly.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Fact they clashed over a draft pick. Your opinion they clashed over every pick during there tenure together. Did they? You dont know.

Opinion economics affected the Steelers only. There were other small market teams affected also.

I didnt say Goodell changing the game has affected only the Steelers. I said it probably affected us a little more considering how we play defense.

You listed a ton of players and my point still remains. Everyone knew the Steelers didnt keep players if you wanted big money you werent going to get it here. So when that time came why werent there someone ready to step in and keep things rolling like you guys are saying there should be now. The Steelers fell to 7-9 6-10 and 9-7. And that was ok. No problem Bill. Its cool the way the Steelers bank account is set up...

Now Tomlin goes 8-8 twice and people are throwing him under the bus for failing to replace players. What's the ******* difference. Whether its thru free agency or old age players have to be replaced. Right??

I didnt say Wallace was the same as all those players. I didnt want to even keep Wallace not for his talent but because I thought he quit on the team and was only thinking of self. No different then all those players you listed. But ask me would i want a WR duo of Wallace and Brown hell yeah. All day. Would absolutley love it.

You keep going on about franchise QBs not me. Thats you. Youre making it the end all be all. Not me. You're saying its not Cowher fault cause he didnt have one. Thats you. So if he didnt have one who fault is it? Just like the positions you listed for Tomlin. You blame Tomlin but not Bill. Why? Bill had no say. Donahue you say.Then under Colbert still what then? Nothing.

I've have never said just because you have a Franchise QB you should win thats you. You still need a team.

Now Harrison is a Cowher guy smh. What did he do under Cowher? Same as Ike Taylor. Cowher benched him. But he is a Cowher guy too right?

For the twenty thousandth time I said their circumstances are different. Not the same. Everyone has there own set of circumstances. But the bottom line is Tomlin hasnt reached the lows Cowher was allowed to and fans are ready to let him go. For what???

 

[Vader]

I would rip Tomlin if our previous coach was Greg Schiano or Paul Brown. For most of these people, the standard is "Being decent and sometimes making the playoffs." Personally, I think the goal should be contending yearly.

Tomlin can't stand on his own merit. He won a SB and went to another so nothing else he does matters. Doesn't matter that 98% of the players were from a previous coach who had won a SB with them. Doesn't matter that they haven't won a playoff game since 2010. All that matter is that Cowher didn't try hard enough to get a franchise QB and Tomlin won a SB.

 

[Idioteque]

Now Harrison is a Cowher guy smh. What did he do under Cowher? Same as Ike Taylor. Cowher benched him. But he is a Cowher guy too right?

Yeah, I'd say so. Cowher brought Harrison on board and even started him when Haggans was hurt. Harrison played in 48 games under Cowher and would have played in more if not for a broken leg.

And Ike? LOL. Drafted by Cowher, started by Cowher, became a great rising talent under Cowher.

But yeah, they were handpicked by Tomlin, LOL.

 

[antdrewjosh]

If the Steelers were like every other team and fired their coaches after every bad year or years I wouldnt compare the two. I'd be all hell yeah lets fire him and get someone else in here cause thats what we do. But we all know they dont do business that way. Do they? No they find a coach they like and stick with them dont they.

 

[Idioteque]

If the Steelers were like every other team and fired their coaches after every bad year or years I wouldnt compare the two. I'd be all hell yeah lets fire him and get someone else in here cause thats what we do. But we all know they dont do business that way. Do they? No they find a coach they like and stick with them dont they.

Is that automatically a good thing, no matter what? Look at the restaurant analogy I made earlier. Would you keep that manager in place just because it would be hard to search for a new one?

There's a time and a place for "fire the coach" and every situation is different. Those who stick to a philosophy and refuse to back down from it are in trouble, whether it's "fire the coach every time we have a bad season" or "never, ever fire a coach." It's called inflexibility.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Yeah, I'd say so. Cowher brought Harrison on board and even started him when Haggans was hurt. Harrison played in 48 games under Cowher and would have played in more if not for a broken leg.

And Ike? LOL. Drafted by Cowher, started by Cowher, became a great rising talent under Cowher.

But yeah, they were handpicked by Tomlin, LOL.

How many games did he start for Cowher? You want to list games he played in knowing the damn near all came on special teams..

Taylor didnt start til his third year benched in his 4th year. because thats what you do with established great rising talent.

 

[Vader]

Fact they clashed over a draft pick. Your opinion they clashed over every pick during there tenure together. Did they? You dont know.

Opinion economics affected the Steelers only. There were other small market teams affected also.

I didnt say Goodell changing the game has affected only the Steelers. I said it probably affected us a little more considering how we play defense.

You listed a ton of players and my point still remains. Everyone knew the Steelers didnt keep players if you wanted big money you werent going to get it here. So when that time came why werent there someone ready to step in and keep things rolling like you guys are saying there should be now. The Steelers fell to 7-9 6-10 and 9-7. And that was ok. No problem Bill. Its cool the way the Steelers bank account is set up...

Now Tomlin goes 8-8 twice and people are throwing him under the bus for failing to replace players. What's the ******* difference. Whether its thru free agency or old age players have to be replaced. Right??

I didnt say Wallace was the same as all those players. I didnt want to even keep Wallace not for his talent but because I thought he quit on the team and was only thinking of self. No different then all those players you listed. But ask me would i want a WR duo of Wallace and Brown hell yeah. All day. Would absolutley love it.

You keep going on about franchise QBs not me. Thats you. Youre making it the end all be all. Not me. You're saying its not Cowher fault cause he didnt have one. Thats you. So if he didnt have one who fault is it? Just like the positions you listed for Tomlin. You blame Tomlin but not Bill. Why? Bill had no say. Donahue you say.Then under Colbert still what then? Nothing.

I've have never said just because you have a Franchise QB you should win thats you. You still need a team.

Now Harrison is a Cowher guy smh. What did he do under Cowher? Same as Ike Taylor. Cowher benched him. But he is a Cowher guy too right?

For the twenty thousandth time I said their circumstances are different. Not the same. Everyone has there own set of circumstances. But the bottom line is Tomlin hasnt reached the lows Cowher was allowed to and fans are ready to let him go. For what???

I don't care how many draft picks they clashed over. That wasn't the issue. The fact is that Cowher didn't have final say with Donahoe.

Since you don't even know that Harrison and Ike were Cowher guys I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe you just don't remember players very well. SMH

Tomlin hasn't reached the lows of Cowher because he has a real QB. It's that simple. I don't care if he went 8-8 or 7-9. Big ******* deal. You just want to make Cowher look bad to make Tomlin look good.

Nobody wanted Wallace to stay. Cowher lost better and more players than Tomlin has during the same time period. No discussion needed. But somehow you think it's the same. You think losing Wallace is the same as losing all those other players...just ******* unreal. Any excuse I guess.

Tomlin hasn't replaced ANY ******* BODY. He isn't many during FA like Cowher. He hasn't replaced anyone.

Then you keep rambling about Cowher not finding a QB after Donahoe left. WTF? He brought in Graham and then Maddox or did you forget that? Then he drafted Ben. Donahoe left after the 1999 season so it was only 4 seasons before he drafted Ben. We're still waiting 8 YEARS for Tomlin to bring any ANYONE to do anything. CB? Lb? OT? DB? DL? But Tomlin not bringing in a single good draft pick is ok because Cowher couldn't find a franchise QB in 4 years... brilliant!!

 

[Idioteque]

How many games did he start for Cowher? You want to list games he played in knowing the damn near all came on special teams..

Taylor didnt start til his third year benched in his 4th year. becauwe thats what you do with established great rising talent.

Harrison was our #3 OLB, blocked by Joey Porter and Clark Haggans. Porter left in 2007, making Harrison the starter. (Though Harrison did start some games for us - important games - under Cowher.)

Ike was a starter, benched temporarily but an established starter. Hell, Cowher signed him to a big contract TWO YEARS BEFORE Tomlin was hired. Yup, handpicked by Iron Mike, already on his second contract and a two-year starter.

I also credit Tomlin for finding Big Ben and making him great, LOL

 

[Superman]

Tomlin and Colbert were also wanting to bring in Dexter Jackson, and completely writing off Troy Polamalu.
Glad that didnt work out. The only reason we have Polamalu is that Jackson signed with Arizona, otherwise we'd have brought in Jackson and not traded up for Polamalu.

The great talent evaluators also brought in Kent Graham to lead us to the promised land.

Todd Peterson, anyone?

These arguments always turn into Cowher vs Tomlin since we've only got a very small coaching pool to work with. It's not like we're the Browns, Redskins or Cowboys, going through coaches like illegals through our border. Overall, Cowher, IMO, is a better evaluator and motivator than Tomlin. Tomlin's more like Barry Switzer, but not quite as bad. Just as Switzer inherited a juggernaut, so did Tomlin. Both won a Super Bowl with "the other coach's players." Only Switzer posted a nice 6-10 mark just two years after winning a Super Bowl. Tomlin, on the other hand, made a return trip to the Super Bowl. Also, Tomlin has never posted a losing record. He tried and tried again, but even in that endeavor he was unsuccessful. As it stands, Tomlin is at least equal to Cowher on successes achieved (won and lost a Super Bowl), but Tomlin is in the hole at 0-2 as far as posting a losing record with Cowher having done that twice. For ****'s sake, their winning percentage is nearly identical (.623 for Cowher and .629 for Tomlin).

 

[antdrewjosh]

I don't care how many draft picks they clashed over. That wasn't the issue. The fact is that Cowher didn't have final say with Donahoe.

Since you don't even know that Harrison and Ike were Cowher guys I don't know what else to tell you. Maybe you just don't remember players very well. SMH

Tomlin hasn't reached the lows of Cowher because he has a real QB. It's that simple. I don't care if he went 8-8 or 7-9. Big ******* deal. You just want to make Cowher look bad to make Tomlin look good.

Nobody wanted Wallace to stay. Cowher lost better and more players than Tomlin has during the same time period. No discussion needed. But somehow you think it's the same. You think losing Wallace is the same as losing all those other players...just ******* unreal. Any excuse I guess.

Tomlin hasn't replaced ANY ******* BODY. He isn't many during FA like Cowher. He hasn't replaced anyone.

Then you keep rambling about Cowher not finding a QB after Donahoe left. WTF? He brought in Graham and then Maddox or did you forget that? Then he drafted Ben. Donahoe left after the 1999 season so it was only 4 seasons before he drafted Ben. We're still waiting 8 YEARS for Tomlin to bring any ANYONE to do anything. CB? Lb? OT? DB? DL? But Tomlin not bringing in a single good draft pick is ok because Cowher couldn't find a franchise QB in 4 years... brilliant!!

It matters only matters who had final say when they disagreed? It doesnt matter when they were in agreement. And far as we know they disagreed on one player Kearse. So that means they agreed on all the others. Correct. Or is it Cowher made all the good picks and Donahue made any pick that didnt pan out? Is that how it goes?

I remember very well. Harrison started very few ganes under Cowher. Played primarily special teams. Ike Taylor started one year his third. Benched the next. Hardly established.

Nobody wanted Wallace to stay at the money he wanted. If he wante a reasonable contract nobody wanted him to leave.

Who drafted Woodley? Do we win in 08 without Woodley? Who drafted Mebdenhall? Do we reach the super bowl without him or Pouncey? Who drafted Brown Sanders Bell Decastro Lewis Heyward Wheaton. The cupboard is not bare here they are just young. Need time. Just like that young talent Cowher drafted in 98 99 2000 01 02 etc turned into the 2005 champions

 

[Vader]

Tomlin and Colbert were also wanting to bring in Dexter Jackson, and completely writing off Troy Polamalu.
Glad that didnt work out. The only reason we have Polamalu is that Jackson signed with Arizona, otherwise we'd have brought in Jackson and not traded up for Polamalu.

The great talent evaluators also brought in Kent Graham to lead us to the promised land.

Todd Peterson, anyone?

These arguments always turn into Cowher vs Tomlin since we've only got a very small coaching pool to work with. It's not like we're the Browns, Redskins or Cowboys, going through coaches like illegals through our border. Overall, Cowher, IMO, is a better evaluator and motivator than Tomlin. Tomlin's more like Barry Switzer, but not quite as bad. Just as Switzer inherited a juggernaut, so did Tomlin. Both won a Super Bowl with "the other coach's players." Only Switzer posted a nice 6-10 mark just two years after winning a Super Bowl. Tomlin, on the other hand, made a return trip to the Super Bowl. Also, Tomlin has never posted a losing record. He tried and tried again, but even in that endeavor he was unsuccessful. As it stands, Tomlin is at least equal to Cowher on successes achieved (won and lost a Super Bowl), but Tomlin is in the hole at 0-2 as far as posting a losing record with Cowher having done that twice. For ****'s sake, their winning percentage is nearly identical (.623 for Cowher and .629 for Tomlin).

But, as usual, you totally skate over the difference while focusing only one the records. Cowher didn't inherit when Tomlin did. Tomlin has never built a team. He even has to find old Cowher players just to compete. Just comparing the things that you want to doesn't make them similar. It's like saying the moon and the sun are identical. Just gloss over that the sun is a hell of a lot bigger, it's a gas ball, and it's the center of the solar system. But yea, they're both spherical shapes and they are both in the solar system so they are identical.

 

[Idioteque]

These arguments always turn into Cowher vs Tomlin since we've only got a very small coaching pool to work with. It's not like we're the Browns, Redskins or Cowboys, going through coaches like illegals through our border. Overall, Cowher, IMO, is a better evaluator and motivator than Tomlin. Tomlin's more like Barry Switzer, but not quite as bad. Just as Switzer inherited a juggernaut, so did Tomlin. Both won a Super Bowl with "the other coach's players." Only Switzer posted a nice 6-10 mark just two years after winning a Super Bowl.

True, but "what the last coach did" is irrelevant in evaluating the current coach. Regardless of how good or bad Cowher was, doesn't make Tomlin any worse or better. The Polamalu thing - which is a good point about Cowher - would only matter if it were Tomlin that rescued Troy from being thrown aside and made Troy what he is today.

If you got called out by your boss, and sat in his office and said, "Well, the last guy sucked at some of this stuff too, so cut me some slack for my fuckups!" how well would that go over? Probably not well. I presume you have the job you have because your boss wanted you to perform well.

Tomlin, on the other hand, made a return trip to the Super Bowl. Also, Tomlin has never posted a losing record. He tried and tried again, but even in that endeavor he was unsuccessful. As it stands, Tomlin is at least equal to Cowher on successes achieved (won and lost a Super Bowl), but Tomlin is in the hole at 0-2 as far as posting a losing record with Cowher having done that twice. For ****'s sake, their winning percentage is nearly identical (.623 for Cowher and .629 for Tomlin).

I don't know why "losing record" matters. Were you comforted in 2012 and 2013 when we fell apart and missed the playoffs embarrassingly, but managed to win 8 games? I wasn't. I consider every non-playoff season a failure to some degree; whether we were 4-12 or 8-8 should be irrelevant.

And why do we keep assuming W-L record is an indicator of the head coach and Tells The Tale? As I've pointed out many times, Mike Smith and Mike Martz have/had better W-L records than Walsh, Noll, and Landry.

Two 10-6 or 8-8 teams are not automatically identical just because of their records. Tomlin has a similar win% to Cowher, but I think we should live in the present and future and it's all trending downward. To me, that matters more than how we looked in 2010. Hell, two years ago we were 55-25 (69%) under Tomlin and contended for a SB every year.

 

[Idioteque]

It matters only matters who had final say when they disagreed? It doesnt matter when they were in agreement. And far as we know they disagreed on one player Kearse. So that means they agreed on all the others. Correct. Or is it Cowher made all the good picks and Donahue made any pick that didnt pan out? Is that how it goes?

I remember very well. Harrison started very few ganes under Cowher. Played primarily special teams. Ike Taylor started one year his third. Benched the next. Hardly established.

Nobody wanted Wallace to stay at the money he wanted. If he wante a reasonable contract nobody wanted him to leave.

Who drafted Woodley? Do we win in 08 without Woodley? Who drafted Mebdenhall? Do we reach the super bowl without him or Pouncey? Who drafted Brown Sanders Bell Decastro Lewis Heyward Wheaton. The cupboard is not bare here they are just young. Need time. Just like that young talent Cowher drafted in 98 99 2000 01 02 etc turned into the 2005 champions

Dude. Cowher handed Ike a fairly big contract as his ESTABLISHED, STARTING CB. What was he benched for, five games? LOL.

Tomlin inherits Ike, who's in his fifth year and third as a starter, on his second contract (a big one).. and he was handpicked by Tomlin. Can't make this stuff up.

 

[Superman]

I give up.

Both of you - Vader and Idiot - tell us precisely WHOM you would replace Tomlin with if you were asked to fire Tomlin today and bring in a coach tonite.

 

[Vader]

It matters only matters who had final say when they disagreed? It doesnt matter when they were in agreement. And far as we know they disagreed on one player Kearse. So that means they agreed on all the others. Correct. Or is it Cowher made all the good picks and Donahue made any pick that didnt pan out? Is that how it goes?

I remember very well. Harrison started very few ganes under Cowher. Played primarily special teams. Ike Taylor started one year his third. Benched the next. Hardly established.

Nobody wanted Wallace to stay at the money he wanted. If he wante a reasonable contract nobody wanted him to leave.

Who drafted Woodley? Do we win in 08 without Woodley? Who drafted Mebdenhall? Do we reach the super bowl without him or Pouncey? Who drafted Brown Sanders Bell Decastro Lewis Heyward Wheaton. The cupboard is not bare here they are just young. Need time. Just like that young talent Cowher drafted in 98 99 2000 01 02 etc turned into the 2005 champions

It doesn't matter how many picks they agreed or disagreed with. You don't know and I don't know. I know that it was enough for Cowher to hand in his resignation. Has Tomlin had to deal with that? NOPE.

Harrison was the 3rd OLB. Just like Worilds was his first few years. Harrison played quite a bit. Also Ike started in 2005 and 2006 before he was benched. He signed a $22.5 million dollar 4 year contract in 2006. So if he isn't Cowher's player then I don't know WTF you're smoking.

You listed some good players but NOT one CB or DB. If you can blast Cowher for not finding one of the most difficult positions in all of sports then I can easily say that Tomlin hasn't even been able to find a single CB, TE, DB or even a single decent back up QB since he has been here. He has drafted some good players but none of them are great players. There are no Troy, Ben, Miller, Smith, Hampton, Harrison, Bettis ETC.. on this team.

The talent for the 2005 team came even in good years. You seem to think that the Steelers were picking high in the draft 5 years. Which is just wrong. In 2001 they won 13 games. 2002 they won 10 games. After the bad 98 season they picked Edwards, Scott Shields, and finally picked Porter in the 3d. They also got Smith in the 4th.

There isn't one player on the 05' team other than Ben that was drafted above the 26th pick. In 2002 after they won 13 games they drafted Simmons, Randel EL, Hope, Foote, Haynes, and Keisel.

 

[antdrewjosh]

It doesn't matter how many picks they agreed or disagreed with. You don't know and I don't know. I know that it was enough for Cowher to hand in his resignation. Has Tomlin had to deal with that? NOPE.

Harrison was the 3rd OLB. Just like Worilds was his first few years. Harrison played quite a bit. Also Ike started in 2005 and 2006 before he was benched. He signed a $22.5 million dollar 4 year contract in 2006. So if he isn't Cowher's player then I don't know WTF you're smoking.

You listed some good players but NOT one CB or DB. If you can blast Cowher for not finding one of the most difficult positions in all of sports then I can easily say that Tomlin hasn't even been able to find a single CB, TE, DB or even a single decent back up QB since he has been here. He has drafted some good players but none of them are great players. There are no Troy, Ben, Miller, Smith, Hampton, Harrison, Bettis ETC.. on this team.

The talent for the 2005 team came even in good years. You seem to think that the Steelers were picking high in the draft 5 years. Which is just wrong. In 2001 they won 13 games. 2002 they won 10 games. After the bad 98 season they picked Edwards, Scott Shields, and finally picked Porter in the 3d. They also got Smith in the 4th.

There isn't one player on the 05' team other than Ben that was drafted above the 26th pick. In 2002 after they won 13 games they drafted Simmons, Randel EL, Hope, Foote, Haynes, and Keisel.

Deal with what? You make it sound like the Donahue vs Cowher tiff is what held the franchise back. The only reason they started beefing was because Donahue said the Steelers had more then enough talent to win after a playoff loss. That started the tiff between the two. Before that there was no problem. Lets not pretend from 92 until him and Donahue got into that Cowher was working under some horrible conditions.

Harrison was a unknown. No one knew what we had. If they did he would of played before Haggans. Taylor was similar too Lewis did nothing his first two yeaes started one year and benched his forth. My point was just like Harrison no one knew what we get from in 2007.

See once again you take me saying Cowher not finding a QB as a slight to him. Far from the case. I loved Kordell. Was pissed when he was benched for Maddox. I didnt realize that Kordell issue was himself til later. He didnt have it. One mistake and he couldnt overcome it. So when i say something about Bill not getting a QB its not because I wanted him too. Its because people use that as an reason for him. Tomlin doesnt get reasons. He has excuses. Double standard to me.

See its not just the 1st round pick that high. Its every round. So while yes they blew picks on Edwards and Shields maybe they dont get Porter and Smith in the later rounds if they werent picking high in each round. Plax didnt stay but he was a big part of the team too.

 

[Idioteque]

I give up.

Sorry; didn't mean to break your brain there. Just answered your points is all.

Both of you - Vader and Idiot - tell us precisely WHOM you would replace Tomlin with if you were asked to fire Tomlin today and bring in a coach tonite.

There are several candidates I would've looked at over the last couple of years. Bill O'Brien would have been at the top of my list. Mike McCoy, too.

Going forward.. I love Darrell Bevell, great playcaller and has a good head for scheme IMO. Knows how to use the run to set up the downfield game; mixes in WC principles without pounding pegs into wrong holes. Trusts his playmakers - and his QB - to win matchups.

David Shaw has coached so many future NFLers that it seems to me he can grasp NFL principles and egos. Love his Stanford teams.

On the darkhorse side, Jim Harbaugh could be coming available this offseason.

 

[Idioteque]

See once again you take me saying Cowher not finding a QB as a slight to him. Far from the case. I loved Kordell. Was pissed when he was benched for Maddox. I didnt realize that Kordell issue was himself til later. He didnt have it. One mistake and he couldnt overcome it. So when i say something about Bill not getting a QB its not because I wanted him too. Its because people use that as an reason for him. Tomlin doesnt get reasons. He has excuses. Double standard to me.

That's called "the benefit of the doubt," which one has to earn. As soon as Tomlin starts drafting really good players (plural) he'll get more slack for the ****** teams he's put together.