Tomlin....he's driving a proud organization straight in to the ground.

[Tibs]

This cannot be underscored enough. It just CAN'T.

Tomlin has been the head coach for more than 7 years. The average NFL career is less than 4 years. He has had 7 drafts, with more than 50 draft picks and who knows how many free agents, to make the Steelers his team.

He has done so, with selections like Ziggy Hood, Lawrence Timmons, Jarvis Jones, Marcus Gilbert, Mike Adams, Ryan McBean, Matt Spaeth, Ryan Mundy, Dennis Dixon, Tony Hills, Bruce Davis, Ra'shon Harris, Frank Summers, Joe Burnett, Jason Worilds, Chris Scott, Crezdon Butler, Chris Rainey, David Paulsen, Dri Archer, Landry Jones, Terrance Hawthorne, and zero DB's of any worth. His 1st round successes - Decastro, Pouncey - were picks that were so obvious that even Tomlin could not @#$% them up.

His best players as of January 1, 2007: Ben Roethlisberger, Troy Polamalu, Hines Ward, Heath Miller, Willie Parker, Santonio Holmes, James Farrior, Ike Taylor.

His best players as of January 1, 2014: Ben Roethlisberger, Heath Miller, Antonio Brown, Le'Veon Bell, Ike Taylor, David Decastro, Maurkice Pouncey, Craig Heyward, Troy Polamalu.

The 1st group has 3 likely HOF players.

The 2nd group has 2 remaining from that HOF core, plus two very good skill position players and some good players. No great players. No future HOF players. Just really good and good, to go along with the mediocre.

Look what Noll and Cowher did when they came to the Steelers - they turned over the roster, and added game-changers, future HOF guys. Look what Tomlin has done - relied on the players his predecessor obtained, and filled in with some good players, but no great players.

For both Noll and Cowher, as they replaced the predecessor's players and made the teams their own, the teams got better.

For Tomlin, as he replaces Cowher's players with his own, the team has become worse - much, much, much worse.

Unfortunately, like Captain Smith, I think that Tomlin will go down with the Titanic he has made the Steelers. We have some tough years ahead at this rate.

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

 

[Steeltime]

Its pretty bad when a deceased RB is one of you best players ...Craig Heyward has been gone since 2006

Yep, but his corpse remains one of the best pass rushers on the Steelers.

 

[Steeltime]

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

Okay, you have a valid point - why is Colbert immune to criticism for the state of the 2014 Steelers?

I think that Tomlin bears the lion's share of blame simply because Colbert + Cowher seemed to never miss on the 1st round selections, and put together great rosters while Colbert + Tomlin has resulted in a roster that repeatedly loses to the worst teams in the NFL.

Since the only change as far as I can tell was the HC, I put more blame on the HC than on the guy who seemed to do a great job with Cowher but now for some inexplicable reason "lost it."

 

[hamster]

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

I disagree. Kevin Colbert has always been a pretty astute judge of talent. He has always been fairly accurate of the needs of the team, and his solutions to those needs. Something changed when Tomlin came on board. I think Tomlin decided to override Colbert's opinions with his own.

All speculation on my part, but I have great respect for KC.

 

[LeXX75]

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

didnt Colbert help BC with drafts ? I'm pretty sure he was GM when we picked Ben ...no? Troy ? Did he just forget how to pick players. The problem is Colbert is not very good at judging talent..BC was...Tomlin is not..blame Colbert if you want but it seems he probably was never very good at it ...before they had a coach who was ...now they dont.

 

[Vader]

Fourth, the new coach will be responsible for the team he puts on the field. Chip Kelly has made the Eagles a fast-paced, no-huddle offense, one that looks to wear down defenses in large part simply by the pace of the game. Whatever you may think of his approach - good, bad or indifferent - it is his approach, and his team.

Instead of that, right now, Tomlin is adding 4-3 defensive players to the Steelers, while Lebeau runs a 3-4. He therefore winds up with no nose tackle, OLB'ers that cannot rush the passer, and CB's that are simply awful. This just cannot go on any more.

This is my main issue with Tomlin. What exactly is he? Everyone knew the style and type of coach Cowher was when he was here. He was going to run the ball, play action passing and zone blitzing 3-4 defense. Everything he did from drafting to FAs went towards those goals. With Tomlin I have no idea if he even has a philosophy. If he does what is it? What does he believe in? What offense does he want to run? What's his goal other than just to win ball games. With Tomlin there is no rhyme of reason to draft picks. He's seems to just be plugging holes instead of finding players that fit what he wants to do. I'm going to assume it is because he doesn't really know what he wants to do.

 

[Tibs]

I have a ton of respect for Colbert, don't get me wrong. I just don't think it's realistic to single out Tomlin re draft picks. Here's why. If you believe what we hear out of Pittsburgh year after year after year, they have a very structured pre-draft process. They collectively stack the board over the span of a few months. All of them - Colbert, Tomlin, the scouts, the position coaches, et al. The Rooneys get involved in this as well, all the way up until the draft when they have their draft board locked and loaded. When the draft rolls around, they simple stick to the board and make the picks as they come. So the notion that Tomlin sits there and cherry picks certain players or "overrides Colbert" doesn't seem like an accurate portrayal. Again, if you believe what they say, those decisions are made well before the draft, and they're made through a process of collective "brain-storming" and discourse. In this scenario, the blame for players that haven't panned out is really a collective failure of the group - Colbert, Tomlin, Rooney, position coaches, scouts - as well as the player evaluation process they've developed and implemented over the years.

 

[Idioteque]

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

But our entire drafting philosophy changed completely in EXACTLY 2007. And the new philosophy aligned with Tomlin's coaching experience. Not to mention, our FA methods have changed since then. Sooooo..........

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Okay, you have a valid point - why is Colbert immune to criticism for the state of the 2014 Steelers?

I think that Tomlin bears the lion's share of blame simply because Colbert + Cowher seemed to never miss on the 1st round selections, and put together great rosters while Colbert + Tomlin has resulted in a roster that repeatedly loses to the worst teams in the NFL.

Since the only change as far as I can tell was the HC, I put more blame on the HC than on the guy who seemed to do a great job with Cowher but now for some inexplicable reason "lost it."

On one hand, the better you play the later you draft. On the other hand, the last few years they've drafted exceedingly few decent players and Colbert didn't become retarded overnight. Remember, there are exactly zero players left from the 2008 and 2009 drafts so that's two consecutive years of mostly wasted picks. Your 5 and 6 year players ought to be in their prime and we wonder why (ok, so we don't wonder) there are holes and no depth.

 

[Stryker]

This is my main issue with Tomlin. What exactly is he? Everyone knew the style and type of coach Cowher was when he was here. He was going to run the ball, play action passing and zone blitzing 3-4 defense. Everything he did from drafting to FAs went towards those goals. With Tomlin I have no idea if he even has a philosophy. If he does what is it? What does he believe in? What offense does he want to run? What's his goal other than just to win ball games. With Tomlin there is no rhyme of reason to draft picks. He's seems to just be plugging holes instead of finding players that fit what he wants to do. I'm going to assume it is because he doesn't really know what he wants to do.

That was exactly the problem with Cowher. EVERYONE knew what he was going to do . That's why he lost 4 home AFCC games. I will agree that Tomlin has trouble with identity, but I'm not a revisionist. I remember exactly what is was that I didn't like about Cowher.

Also I don't understand all the homophobic comments about not hating Tomlin (not directed to Vader). I don't understand what receiving a facial has to do with football knowledge, but I do know that I'm not taking a load disagreeing. We correctly controlled the clock at the end of the half for 4 straight games, and we missed the FG (thanks in part to Ben's sack). I will though Blame Tomlin for the end of game scenario. You have to play to win the game. A first down is the game. The O is stronger than the D. We need 5 yards to win outright. Failing to try to achieve the first down on 3rd and 5 is a coaching failure and needs to fall squarely on their shoulders.

Missing open receivers for TDs falls squarely on Ben's shoulders (and Brown shares some responsibility on the flea flicker drop).
Defense deserves blame for extending drives on penalties.

Steelers failed. We will win again, and I'm projecting one next week. I also am still standing by my posts, it will take 30 points for us to win ANY game.

 

[Idioteque]

That was exactly the problem with Cowher. EVERYONE knew what he was going to do . That's why he lost 4 home AFCC games. I will agree that Tomlin has trouble with identity, but I'm not a revisionist. I remember exactly what is was that I didn't like about Cowher.

Also I don't understand all the homophobic comments about not hating Tomlin (not directed to Vader). I don't understand what receiving a facial has to do with football knowledge, but I do know that I'm not taking a load disagreeing. We correctly controlled the clock at the end of the half for 4 straight games, and we missed the FG (thanks in part to Ben's sack). I will though Blame Tomlin for the end of game scenario. You have to play to win the game. A first down is the game. The O is stronger than the D. We need 5 yards to win outright. Failing to try to achieve the first down on 3rd and 5 is a coaching failure and needs to fall squarely on their shoulders.

Missing open receivers for TDs falls squarely on Ben's shoulders (and Brown shares some responsibility on the flea flicker drop).
Defense deserves blame for extending drives on penalties.

Steelers failed. We will win again, and I'm projecting one next week. I also am still standing by my posts, it will take 30 points for us to win ANY game.

Is he EVER accountable for the constant mistakes on the field? Maybe eight years in?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

That was exactly the problem with Cowher. EVERYONE knew what he was going to do . That's why he lost 4 home AFCC games. I will agree that Tomlin has trouble with identity, but I'm not a revisionist. I remember exactly what is was that I didn't like about Cowher.

Also I don't understand all the homophobic comments about not hating Tomlin (not directed to Vader). I don't understand what receiving a facial has to do with football knowledge, but I do know that I'm not taking a load disagreeing. We correctly controlled the clock at the end of the half for 4 straight games, and we missed the FG (thanks in part to Ben's sack). I will though Blame Tomlin for the end of game scenario. You have to play to win the game. A first down is the game. The O is stronger than the D. We need 5 yards to win outright. Failing to try to achieve the first down on 3rd and 5 is a coaching failure and needs to fall squarely on their shoulders.

Missing open receivers for TDs falls squarely on Ben's shoulders (and Brown shares some responsibility on the flea flicker drop).
Defense deserves blame for extending drives on penalties.

Steelers failed. We will win again, and I'm projecting one next week. I also am still standing by my posts, it will take 30 points for us to win ANY game.

i attribute Cowher's losses to having bad QBs. O'Donnell and Kordell weren't very good and Ben was a rookie facing cheaters.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

This is more an indictment of Kevin Colbert and the scouting dept than it is of Mike Tomlin.

The steelers are tight lipped about who has final say but it seems apparent that the head coach has a large amount of input. Cowher brought in Colbert as more of an administrator than a talent evaluator. It was clear Cowher was the main evaluator.

Did the Rooneys give Colbert more power when Tomlin arrived? Maybe. Is Art Rooney playing Jerry Jones? Maybe.

Whoever is the main evaluator needs to be fired or at least have that power taken away. They need a strong GM who is a talent evaluator.

 

[steelcan58]

i attribute Cowher's losses to having bad QBs. O'Donnell and Kordell weren't very good and Ben was a rookie facing cheaters.

Besides the Chargers loss, Cowher also lost to very good teams. Denver went on to win consecutive Super bowls and NE (cheating and all) won 3 of 4. Those were the only repeating winners the past 20 years.

 

[Vader]

That was exactly the problem with Cowher. EVERYONE knew what he was going to do . That's why he lost 4 home AFCC games. I will agree that Tomlin has trouble with identity, but I'm not a revisionist. I remember exactly what is was that I didn't like about Cowher.

I disagree with that. They lost one of those games because Ben threw for 3 picks. They had 388 yards in total offense. But the rookie Qb didn't get the job done. You going to blame Cowher for taking a rookie QB to the AFCC game and losing to a cheating pats* team? Also the very fact that Cowher took Kordell to a playoff game at all is a miracle. Kordell threw the ball 36 times against Denver... 36 times. What did you want Cowher to do? Run more? In 2001 Kordell threw 44 times... yes, 44 times. And he threw 3 picks.

The only real bad loss was to SD in 1995. They dominated that game but made mistakes. Even with that they could have won it on the last play. The defense makes a good play and knocks the ball away. Still a bad loss but the Chargers weren't a bad team like the Broncos of the Tim Tebow era. They were 5th in scoring offense and 9th in defensive scoring. The Steelers were 16th in offensive scoring and 2nd in defense.

 

[Punxsutawney]

i attribute Cowher's losses to having bad QBs. O'Donnell and Kordell weren't very good and Ben was a rookie facing cheaters.

Given how QB dependent the league was, even in the 1990s, it's quite remarkable what Cowher was able to accomplish during his tenure.

He was conservative to a fault, but the guy could identity and motivate talent, much like Schottenheimer.

People like to sh1t on Marty for his lack of championship success (where he had some bad luck, like the Byner and McCree fumbles), but he never quite had Joe Montana pulling the trigger for his offense, and the likes of Browns, Chiefs and Chargers were competitive jokes before he turned them all into contenders

 

[Idioteque]

The only real bad loss was to SD in 1995. They dominated that game but made mistakes. Even with that they could have won it on the last play. The defense mauls Barry Foster, sits on his back, and knocks the ball away. Still a bad loss but the Chargers weren't a bad team like the Broncos of the Tim Tebow era. They were 5th in scoring offense and 9th in defensive scoring. The Steelers were 16th in offensive scoring and 2nd in defense.

Sorry, had to fix that

 

[Vader]

Sorry, had to fix that

True but back in the day it was a lot harder to draw a PI penalty than it is today. But Foster was mauled.

 

[antdrewjosh]

I will go on record again. I loved Bill Cowher. I would have no problem if he was still our coach and had never retired. My problem with the Cowher vs Tomlin thing is this. Why are the reasons Vader outlined in post considerd valid reasons and not excuses?? If the same thing was said about Tomlin someone would say stop making excuses. That San Diego game was a upset of epic proportions. I was too young for the 70s and suffered thru the 80s as a kid. The 94 team was my first taste of playoff football where I felt like we were the team to beat not hoping and wishing. No one is mentioning the rap video made before that game. If that had happened under Tomlin you would never hear the end of it. Kordell Kordell Kordell... Cowher chose him he wasnt stuck with him he chose him just like all the players Tomlin gets railed on for picking. Hold them both to the same standards. Like i said I loved Cowher he is the coach of my youth the man who made us contenders after the dreadful 80s but lets not make excuses for one and harp on the others warts cause they both had them. Neither was or is perfect. I dont care about no rap video before the game. We lost because the players **** the bed on the field against San Diego but if the situation was reversed how many would be in here crying saying Tomlin lost the team cause he let them make a video before the game. Hold them to the same standard. The Rooneys do. They find a coach they like and they keep him we all know this. So why is there new threads every week saying the same ****.

 

[IndySteel]

Since the Chief died, the Rooney family has gotten too soft, too out of touch and WAAAY too liberal. Their unwavering support for Obama and Goodell is pathetic and disgusting. It's that same idiotic mindset that will keep this bum of a coach in charge until he goes 0-16. They should sell the team. Get new blood starting at the very top.

 

[Idioteque]

I do hold them both to the same standards. Cowher built not one but two cores of players that either won or contended for championships. Tomlin has picked one true star player in eight drafts and has bungled nearly every draft since 2007.

 

[IndySteel]

And I don't care what anyone says, this POS "coach" won with Cowher's guys.

 

[Vader]

I will go on record again. I loved Bill Cowher. I would have no problem if he was still our coach and had never retired. My problem with the Cowher vs Tomlin thing is this. Why are the reasons Vader outlined in post considerd valid reasons and not excuses?? If the same thing was said about Tomlin someone would say stop making excuses. That San Diego game was a upset of epic proportions. I was too young for the 70s and suffered thru the 80s as a kid. The 94 team was my first taste of playoff football where I felt like we were the team to beat not hoping and wishing. No one is mentioning the rap video made before that game. If that had happened under Tomlin you would never hear the end of it. Kordell Kordell Kordell... Cowher chose him he wasnt stuck with him he chose him just like all the players Tomlin gets railed on for picking. Hold them both to the same standards. Like i said I loved Cowher he is the coach of my youth the man who made us contenders after the dreadful 80s but lets not make excuses for one and harp on the others warts cause they both had them. Neither was or is perfect. I dont care about no rap video before the game. We lost because the players **** the bed on the field against San Diego but if the situation was reversed how many would be in here crying saying Tomlin lost the team cause he let them make a video before the game. Hold them to the same standard. The Rooneys do. They find a coach they like and they keep him we all know this. So why is there new threads every week saying the same ****.

You are off into the same "IF Tomlin did this crap". That's you opinion not fact. The difference between your arguments and mine is that I use facts NOT what I think.

FACT Cowher took over a team that hadn't won ****. FACT Cowher took players that hadn't sniffed a Pro-bowl and made pro-bowlers out of them. FACT Cowher had to restock all of his talent ever few years because Heinz field hadn't been built yet. FACT Cowher had a huge disadvantage because he couldn't keep his own players. FACT Cowher took 2 teams with Kordell "Worm burner" Stewart at the helm to the AFCC game. FACT when Cowher got a real QB he went 15-1 with a rookie and then won a SB with a 2nd year QB. FACT Tomlin won the SB with ONE of his starters on defense. FACT Tomlin has gotten worse the more of Cowher's players he loses. FACT Tomlin hasn't proven to be able to find talent in the draft. FACT Tomlin only had 3 starters of his on offense during his SB and they were all ******* horrible including a LG that only lasted one year, Spaeth who is a nobody, and a center that was so bad he was cut the next year. FACT Tomlin has never had a power struggle with a GM. FACT Tomlin has never had to find a QB. FACT Tomlin drafted Dennis Dixon and L. Jones.

See those are facts NOT "well I think if Tomlin did X like Cowher" crap.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Who drafted Kordell Stewart? Did he just appear out of nowhere. Who made him the starter? Are you talking about all the same players he hadnt won anything with all those players? Or are you saying if he would of been able to.keep said players we would of won a super bowl. Cause that sounds like OPINION to me. All those FACTS sound like excuses to me. Excuses arent allowed. The only if 'Tomlin did that' I offered was if a Rap video had been made before a championship game loss under Tomlin this board would explode. Am I wrong? So what if Tomlin took over a team that won a super bowl two years before he took them to another. That was the goal right. The crime is if he didnt right? Cowher became coach in 92 correct. Didnt get Ben til 2004. Thats 12 years in between. Who fault is is that he didnt get a QB before then. Because we sure as hell know who fault it is right now that we havent drafted well. Same standards fellas all i ask..

 

[Vader]

Who drafted Kordell Stewart? Did he just appear out of nowhere. Who made him the starter? Are you talking about all the same players he hadnt won anything with all those players? Or are you saying if he would of been able to.keep said players we would of won a super bowl. Cause that sounds like OPINION to me. All those FACTS sound like excuses to me. Excuses arent allowed. The only if 'Tomlin did that' I offered was if a Rap video had been made before a championship game loss under Tomlin this board would explode. Am I wrong? So what if Tomlin took over a team that won a super bowl two years before he took them to another. That was the goal right. The crime is if he didnt right? Cowher became coach in 92 correct. Didnt get Ben til 2004. Thats 12 years in between. Who fault is is that he didnt get a QB before then. Because we sure as hell know who fault it is right now that we havent drafted well. Same standards fellas all i ask..

No, you don't want the same standards. You want Tomlin to be taken off the hook. How does saying Cowher had a power struggle an opinion? Or saying Cowher took Kordell to 2 AFCC games an opinion? Or how is saying any of those things an excuse. I'm not excusing him of anything. He ******* won while having to change players ever few years. THAT IS A FACT.

You're so far up Tomlin's *** you can't tell the difference between a fact and an opinion. When the ******* boss tells you who the QB is going to be then you play that QB. When the owner says "He is the QB" and "Heinz field is going to be known as the house that Kordell built" then I'm not going to blame Cowher for not drafting a QB. Especially since most of the QBs during that time sucked ***. Show me ONE time where Rooney stepped into Tomlin's *** and said those things about a player. Not ONCE.

Cowher wasn't perfect but he did rebuilt the team time and time again while losing players. Tomlin hasn't done anything like that at all. Why don't you hold Tomlin to that standard?