Trade down opportunities in draft

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I can't wait to draft Dennard, then sit him 12 yards off the line and watch him tackle.

Part of why the steelers play that way is they haven't had elite CBs. They let Ike play man and I'd guess Lebeau would tweak his schemes to get the most out of Dennard.

Of course, pass rush and safety play also dictates how aggressive you can play your CBs. The reason Sherman is all over guys is because the Seahawks pass rush is so good, he knows the ball will come out quickly and he has great help from his safeties, so he can cheat on the shorter throws. If Sherman played like that without the safety help, he'd be getting toasted on double moves.

If the steeler pass rush sucks again and the safeties are suspect then the CBs will have to play off much of the time no matter who they have.

 

[SteelerFan448]

If the steeler pass rush sucks again and the safeties are suspect then the CBs will have to play off much of the time no matter who they have.

This raises an interesting point. I know everyone wants to upgrade at cornerback, but would it be a better option to get the front seven in gear so they can actually rush the quarterback?

 

[Idioteque]

Part of why the steelers play that way is they haven't had elite CBs. They let Ike play man and I'd guess Lebeau would tweak his schemes to get the most out of Dennard.

I've seen those bullshit cushions since at least 2006. In that span, we haven't taken a CB higher than the 3rd, and our marquee additions from other teams have been Gay and McFadden. Many opportunities to add great CBs, but our scheme dictates that great CB athletes and shutdown cover guys aren't priorities.

Now, I'm on board with that. I hate taking CBs early. For one, it's such a dependent position that, as you point out, the best CBs on earth are marginalized if the pass rush isn't clicking. Secondly, CBs are fickle. Guys go from awesome to garbage to mediocre from one game to the next. And thirdly, this is Roger's NFL. Beyond five yards, a CB's job is cut down by about 80%. Unless you have a shot at a shutdown stud or an athletic marvel, I think you're much, much better off as a team just scouting guys you like that fit your system, then pouncing on them in middle rounds. I think it's a testament to LeBeau's brilliance that he marginalizes the CB position and puts pass defense in the hands of the true difference-makers, pass rushers and safeties. I just hate that we're so married to the cushion scheme that nobody can ever make a play on the ball.

Of course, pass rush and safety play also dictates how aggressive you can play your CBs. The reason Sherman is all over guys is because the Seahawks pass rush is so good, he knows the ball will come out quickly and he has great help from his safeties, so he can cheat on the shorter throws. If Sherman played like that without the safety help, he'd be getting toasted on double moves.

If the steeler pass rush sucks again and the safeties are suspect then the CBs will have to play off much of the time no matter who they have.

Exactly. Even Sherman and Revis would look more like run-of-the-mill guys if most of their job wasn't done for them by the pass rush.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

This raises an interesting point. I know everyone wants to upgrade at cornerback, but would it be a better option to get the front seven in gear so they can actually rush the quarterback?

I honestly don't think our biggest problem is at cornerback. It's in the Front seven. That's where all the breakdowns I remember from the games happened - often times by the time the secondary was involved it was too late.

Steelers addressed their biggest liability on the back end already by replacing Ryan Clark.

Can't remember who said it (was it Lebeau?) but the 3-4 defense needs to be built from the nose tackle out. No corner is going to fix the problems they had last year.

I'd rather take DE talent or Nix then go corner in the first. This draft seems very deep at corner - i'd rather the Steelers get a stud athlete in the first then take their chances at corner in the later rounds.

 

[Wingman]

One thing that is missing from the NFL today vs not that long ago are the hits that wideouts were subject to when playing in close to line backers or when a safety was in the box. Most receivers could count on being separated from the ball a lot of the time. When one has the option of a big hit to knock the ball lose tight coverage was not a big issue. The team has valued corner back highly, it has just not had the talent available when they had picks available. In the past they have taken Rod Woodson, Mel Blount, and Chad Scott who is not near as good as the other two but was a very high pick.

Some teams like the browns pick early every year and can put the value they want on nearly every position because there are lots of high quality players at nearly every position available when they pick.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

I've seen those bullshit cushions since at least 2006. In that span, we haven't taken a CB higher than the 3rd, and our marquee additions from other teams have been Gay and McFadden. Many opportunities to add great CBs, but our scheme dictates that great CB athletes and shutdown cover guys aren't priorities.

Now, I'm on board with that. I hate taking CBs early. For one, it's such a dependent position that, as you point out, the best CBs on earth are marginalized if the pass rush isn't clicking. Secondly, CBs are fickle. Guys go from awesome to garbage to mediocre from one game to the next. And thirdly, this is Roger's NFL. Beyond five yards, a CB's job is cut down by about 80%. Unless you have a shot at a shutdown stud or an athletic marvel, I think you're much, much better off as a team just scouting guys you like that fit your system, then pouncing on them in middle rounds. I think it's a testament to LeBeau's brilliance that he marginalizes the CB position and puts pass defense in the hands of the true difference-makers, pass rushers and safeties. I just hate that we're so married to the cushion scheme that nobody can ever make a play on the ball.



Exactly. Even Sherman and Revis would look more like run-of-the-mill guys if most of their job wasn't done for them by the pass rush.

You're getting into a chicken or the egg situation with the steelers playing loose. Cowher liked cover 3 and in cover 3, the CB isn't even responsible to cover the short routes. It's the OLBs who are supposed to flare out there and the theory is that a tall LB doesn't actually have to run all the way out to the sideline to cover that WR because he will be in the throwing lane and the QB has to make a good throw over them. If they do complete it then the CB comes up to make the stop for short gain.

Woodson was allowed to do more than that and Ike is allowed to do more. A 1st round CB would do more as well.

I agree that a 1st round CB may not be necessary for how Lebeau schemes but when you look at this draft, CB and WR may be the only pick that isn't a reach at 15. With WR being so deep, CB may be the pick by default. Best player, value and need all in one.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

I honestly don't think our biggest problem is at cornerback. It's in the Front seven. That's where all the breakdowns I remember from the games happened - often times by the time the secondary was involved it was too late.

Steelers addressed their biggest liability on the back end already by replacing Ryan Clark.

Can't remember who said it (was it Lebeau?) but the 3-4 defense needs to be built from the nose tackle out. No corner is going to fix the problems they had last year.

I'd rather take DE talent or Nix then go corner in the first. This draft seems very deep at corner - i'd rather the Steelers get a stud athlete in the first then take their chances at corner in the later rounds.

I remember someone saying that as well and that is why I have been so down an McClendon. I want to upgrade at NT but I don't want Nix he scares me with his injury problems at such a early age and such a heavy frame.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

I remember someone saying that as well and that is why I have been so down an McClendon. I want to upgrade at NT but I don't want Nix he scares me with his injury problems at such a early age and such a heavy frame.

There are quite a few guys that we can get in the later rounds. Right now i'm focused on Beau Allen. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/252526051.html. Traditional NT. We can probably get him in the 4th, though the Packers will probably have something to say about it.

Dude is not a sexy pick. Not a lot of stats, but he's stout, clogs up that middle.

 

[STEELERS R GR8]

There are quite a few guys that we can get in the later rounds. Right now i'm focused on Beau Allen. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/252526051.html. Traditional NT. We can probably get him in the 4th, though the PAckers will probably have something to say about it.

Everything I read about Allen was he will be a 6-7 round guy, but you know how all that mock crap goes..lol! I watched him just a little but not enough to make a decision on him, the guy I really like is Ellis the dude never stopped going when I watched him. TMC talked about him and so I started paying attention and like I said in other posts he is becoming one of my favorite players in this years draft.

 

[TMC]

Beau Allen is a very interesting prospect, reminds me a lot of Chris Hoke.

 

[Stryker]

...Don't forget Neon Deon Figures!