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Uncle Jarvis

My opinion of the 2006 season was not that Cowher or Colbert or Roethlisberger "mailed it in".

What I thought then and I still strongly think now is they wallowed in their Super Bowl victory a bit too much. They didn't put the work in BEFORE the season. I thought the scouting was below par. I thought the self-evaluation of the roster was over inflated (what a surprise). I think they enjoyed their off-season a bit too much and basically didn't work as hard.

When it came time for the season, they all had good intentions of "turning the switch back on", but found out the roster had holes, they were not prepared to be the hunted instead of the hunter and they thought they were better than they were. By the end of the year, Cowher realized how hard it was and didn't want to put that much effort into coaching anymore and the whole thing fell apart. The odd coaching hire process put Tomlin in charge and history is history.

Some might give them a pass on this, but I sort of think how you act as a winner is just as important as how you act as a loser. And I don't think our team acted very well as winners. In my opinion since we won in 2006 we haven't really validated a good season with a good season after. That tells me a lot about how this team is coached and it's leadership qualities.
Yep, and it speaks to the same mentality that causes the "losing to bad teams" phenomenon. They get comfortable. It's so obvious. You can see it during the course of a single game when they get a lead and get comfortable. Or during the course of a season when they start hot then think "ok we got this" then cool off significantly. And you see it after we win a Super Bowl "oh yeah we good" then the next season is a dud. Tomlin relaxes far too much. It's more than just the talent on the field when you see different levels of urgency and effort throughout the course of games and seasons depending on how well we are doing. It's like we only play hard when we absolutely have to. And to me, I've seen it enough over the past 7-8 years to know that is a Tomlin trait.
 
What team has acted well after a SB win lately? The rats didn't make the playoffs after their win. The Giants did make the playoffs the year after their last win. Hell even Tomlin's team didn't make the playoffs after the SB win against AZ. The idea that a coach and players would "mail it in" after a SB is just ignorance IMHO. The fact is that they were bad early on and got better during the year. They beat the clowns on the last day of the season to get to 8-8... sound familiar? It's happened the last 2 years but I'd never say that Tomlin "mailed it in".
 
My opinion of the 2006 season was not that Cowher or Colbert or Roethlisberger "mailed it in".

What I thought then and I still strongly think now is they wallowed in their Super Bowl victory a bit too much. They didn't put the work in BEFORE the season. I thought the scouting was below par. I thought the self-evaluation of the roster was over inflated (what a surprise). I think they enjoyed their off-season a bit too much and basically didn't work as hard.

When it came time for the season, they all had good intentions of "turning the switch back on", but found out the roster had holes, they were not prepared to be the hunted instead of the hunter and they thought they were better than they were. By the end of the year, Cowher realized how hard it was and didn't want to put that much effort into coaching anymore and the whole thing fell apart. The odd coaching hire process put Tomlin in charge and history is history.

Some might give them a pass on this, but I sort of think how you act as a winner is just as important as how you act as a loser. And I don't think our team acted very well as winners. In my opinion since we won in 2006 we haven't really validated a good season with a good season after. That tells me a lot about how this team is coached and it's leadership qualities.

That sounds like mailing it in to me.
 
What team has acted well after a SB win lately? The rats didn't make the playoffs after their win. The Giants did make the playoffs the year after their last win. Hell even Tomlin's team didn't make the playoffs after the SB win against AZ. The idea that a coach and players would "mail it in" after a SB is just ignorance IMHO. The fact is that they were bad early on and got better during the year. They beat the clowns on the last day of the season to get to 8-8... sound familiar? It's happened the last 2 years but I'd never say that Tomlin "mailed it in".

Is that what we aspire too? Because the Rats and Giants can't be good after their lucky Super Bowl runs, we can't be either?

History will look at Steelers teams the same way. We had LUCKY Super Bowl runs. Not a great team. Overrated. Undisciplined. Inconsistent.

That's the legacy of Tomlin's Steelers. Good, not great. Disappointing some years, good the next. Flashes.

The fact teams like Baltimore and the Giants won just proves to me the league was RIPE for a dynasty if a team out their just had the balls to try and be great instead of status quo.

We could have been that team and I will believe that until I have six feet of dirt on me.
 
Is that what we aspire too? Because the Rats and Giants can't be good after their lucky Super Bowl runs, we can't be either?

History will look at Steelers teams the same way. We had LUCKY Super Bowl runs. Not a great team. Overrated. Undisciplined. Inconsistent.

That's the legacy of Tomlin's Steelers. Good, not great. Disappointing some years, good the next. Flashes.

The fact teams like Baltimore and the Giants won just proves to me the league was RIPE for a dynasty if a team out their just had the balls to try and be great instead of status quo.

We could have been that team and I will believe that until I have six feet of dirt on me.

I just watched a playoff game where the mighty 49ers of the Joe Montana days made it to their first Superbowl. They beat the Cryboys in the NFC Championship game. They had a shitload of turnovers, and basically looked like they got there by luck, they were ONE missed tackle from watching that game at home. It's football, sometimes ya win ugly, a win is a win, and a superbowl is the superbowl. You play the teams on your schedule, you play the teams you are seeded against in the playoffs. Sometimes those matchups are more favorable than others, but you play em, and if you get to the big game, and win it, you're the champ. Period. I don't give a **** if the cleveland browns stumbled in and somehow beat the damn 49ers, if they did it, they did it, and they get the credit. And I can damn sure tell you this much, if I'm going to give the ************* Cleveland Browns credit if they ever win one, you better Goddamn well believe I'm giving the Steelers credit for every Goddamn one too.

Joe
 
Great discussion, thank you for your time & thoughts. There were a lot of peculiar events leading up to Cowher's last season. Not just the injuries to Ben R., the Super Bowl "hangover", but the C owher satisfaction. You could see it in his families eyes after the win. It was like here we are, WE finally won one, the dream is now complete. Cowher had gotten a little soft after that victory, who could blame him. But to say he had given up, hardly.


Salute the nation
 
Is that what we aspire too? Because the Rats and Giants can't be good after their lucky Super Bowl runs, we can't be either?

History will look at Steelers teams the same way. We had LUCKY Super Bowl runs. Not a great team. Overrated. Undisciplined. Inconsistent.

That's the legacy of Tomlin's Steelers. Good, not great. Disappointing some years, good the next. Flashes.

The fact teams like Baltimore and the Giants won just proves to me the league was RIPE for a dynasty if a team out their just had the balls to try and be great instead of status quo.

We could have been that team and I will believe that until I have six feet of dirt on me.

It isn't about aspiring to anything. The Steelers were lucky to play the teams they did in 08'. They played the worst defense to ever step on a SB field in AZ. It took Harrison not playing his assignment and making a great run to win that game. So does that mean Tomlin lost his heart and mailed it in the next season? Nope. Saying that a professional team and a 15 year vet coach "mailed it in" because they missed the playoffs is ignorant.
 
Saying that a professional team and a 15 year vet coach "mailed it in" because they missed the playoffs is ignorant.

I certainly think it's fair to question whether Cowher was a somewhat different coach in that year 15 as compared to year 13 or year 14. He's a human being, not a robot. After FINALLY getting that ring, he might not have brought that same intensity of effort in year 15, especially if he had already decided that he was going to take time away from coaching at the end of the year.
 
I certainly think it's fair to question whether Cowher was a somewhat different coach in that year 15 as compared to year 13 or year 14. He's a human being, not a robot. After FINALLY getting that ring, he might not have brought that same intensity of effort in year 15, especially if he had already decided that he was going to take time away from coaching at the end of the year.

Is there any evidence for that? Did anyone come out and say that on the team? Do you have any articles that say Cowher was doing things differently during camp or the season? Give me some evidence. Why does this only apply to Cowher? Maybe Tomlin lost heart as well? Maybe the loss in the SB to GB finally did him in? I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense and there is no evidence at all for it.
 
It isn't about aspiring to anything. The Steelers were lucky to play the teams they did in 08'. They played the worst defense to ever step on a SB field in AZ. It took Harrison not playing his assignment and making a great run to win that game. So does that mean Tomlin lost his heart and mailed it in the next season? Nope. Saying that a professional team and a 15 year vet coach "mailed it in" because they missed the playoffs is ignorant.

Don't know why you keep bringing up "mailed it in". I agree with you.

Cowher didn't "mail it in", but I don't think he worked as hard in February - April either. The whole team enjoyed their celebrity that spring, included our 22 year old quarterback. In my opinion, there was some bad self-evaluation and long term planning after the 2006 championship. Too many decisions were looked at through glasses tinted rose by the euphoria of that championship.
 
Don't know why you keep bringing up "mailed it in". I agree with you.

Cowher didn't "mail it in", but I don't think he worked as hard in February - April either. The whole team enjoyed their celebrity that spring, included our 22 year old quarterback. In my opinion, there was some bad self-evaluation and long term planning after the 2006 championship. Too many decisions were looked at through glasses tinted rose by the euphoria of that championship.

I don't disagree with that. I bring up the "mailed it in" because that's what Deacon was talking about. He believes that Cowher "lost heart and mailed it in". I have no doubts that they saw certain players as better than they were. That happens all the time. It's happened a lot after Cowher... Hood anyone? But my issue is with the belief that Cowher just threw the 06' season away. I don't believe that because there is no evidence for it. He, along with most fans, thought they were at the same level as the year before. But it is hard to repeat in the NFL. You get a bulls eye on your back and you also play a more difficult schedule. Which is more concerning with this new version because last year they played one of the worst SOS in the entire league and were 8-8.
 
But it is hard to repeat in the NFL. You get a bulls eye on your back and you also play a more difficult schedule. Which is more concerning with this new version because last year they played one of the worst SOS in the entire league and were 8-8.

We played a first-place schedule in 2005 (after going 15-1 in 2004) and a second-place schedule in 2006 (since we were the #6 seed).
 
Is there any evidence for that? Did anyone come out and say that on the team? Do you have any articles that say Cowher was doing things differently during camp or the season? Give me some evidence. Why does this only apply to Cowher? Maybe Tomlin lost heart as well? Maybe the loss in the SB to GB finally did him in? I'm sorry but it just doesn't make sense and there is no evidence at all for it.

I don't care enough to look for evidence, and this is not something that can be proven or disproven via Google search. Sometimes you just a vibe from a team, a feeling of how hungry they are. As Del just said, that team (top to bottom) seemed to really enjoy their victory lap...and it's understandable because there was a lot of frustration for Cowher (and the vets on that team) who had fallen just short in 2001 and 2004.
 
I don't care enough to look for evidence, and this is not something that can be proven or disproven via Google search. Sometimes you just a vibe from a team, a feeling of how hungry they are. As Del just said, that team (top to bottom) seemed to really enjoy their victory lap...and it's understandable because there was a lot of frustration for Cowher (and the vets on that team) who had fallen just short in 2001 and 2004.

Riiiight.... I got the vibe that they played hard the entire season but something was wrong with the QB (who just came back from the bike accident etc...) because he threw a ton of picks. But I guess that was Cowher's fault because of his lack of heart and desire. I know they played hard enough to win 6 out of the last 8 games. In 3 straight games the defense gave up 3, 7, 3 points. Yup, sure feels like they gave up. The only team they lost too during that time was the 13-3 rats. They lost one OT game in Atlanta where Ben goes 24-35-433-5-0. Almost like this past year's team where it took time for them to get things going.

I just think it is a fan thing that was made up. It's like believing in big foot.
 
I don't disagree with that. I bring up the "mailed it in" because that's what Deacon was talking about. He believes that Cowher "lost heart and mailed it in". I have no doubts that they saw certain players as better than they were. That happens all the time. It's happened a lot after Cowher... Hood anyone? But my issue is with the belief that Cowher just threw the 06' season away. I don't believe that because there is no evidence for it. He, along with most fans, thought they were at the same level as the year before. But it is hard to repeat in the NFL. You get a bulls eye on your back and you also play a more difficult schedule. Which is more concerning with this new version because last year they played one of the worst SOS in the entire league and were 8-8.
I think there's a difference though between "mailing it in", which implies a conscious decision to lack effort, and simply lacking hunger. I believe the Steelers lacked hunger, not only in 2006 and 2009, but in various situations. During games when we jump out to leads and relax and piss them away. When we play bottom-of-the-barrel opponents and come out flat. When we start hot the first few weeks of a season then coast it. The hunger is gone because we think we are better than we are and let up on the gas. It's not "mailing it in" intentionally, it's just getting too comfortable.

If the years following SB wins were the ONLY examples of this, I'd agree with you. But you can see it in all those scenarios I mentioned on several occasions. And to me, I don't see how it can be argued that it doesn't start with Tomlin's leadership because all these things have been major problems under him and can all be traced to the same root cause.
 
Riiiight.... I got the vibe that they played hard the entire season but something was wrong with the QB (who just came back from the bike accident etc...) because he threw a ton of picks. But I guess that was Cowher's fault because of his lack of heart and desire. I know they played hard enough to win 6 out of the last 8 games. In 3 straight games the defense gave up 3, 7, 3 points. Yup, sure feels like they gave up. The only team they lost too during that time was the 13-3 rats. They lost one OT game in Atlanta where Ben goes 24-35-433-5-0. Almost like this past year's team where it took time for them to get things going.

I just think it is a fan thing that was made up. It's like believing in big foot.

Who said anything about giving up? I said it was my feeling/belief that the 2006 team (including the head coach) was relatively complacent. That opinion is no less valid (or more "made up") than your opinion that the 2006 team was not more complacent or less hungry than the 2004 or 2005 team.
 
Who said anything about giving up? I said it was my feeling/belief that the 2006 team (including the head coach) was relatively complacent. That opinion is no less valid (or more "made up") than your opinion that the 2006 team was not more complacent or less hungry than the 2004 or 2005 team.

Really? So you think the default is for teams to be complacent? I think these guys work hard and to have some fan say they were complacent without any information other than "I feel" is asinine. So, it's valid for me to say Tomlin has given up the past two years? His heart isn't in it any more and I can feel that he is looking forward to moving on... rubbish.
 
I think there's a difference though between "mailing it in", which implies a conscious decision to lack effort, and simply lacking hunger. I believe the Steelers lacked hunger, not only in 2006 and 2009, but in various situations. During games when we jump out to leads and relax and piss them away. When we play bottom-of-the-barrel opponents and come out flat. When we start hot the first few weeks of a season then coast it. The hunger is gone because we think we are better than we are and let up on the gas. It's not "mailing it in" intentionally, it's just getting too comfortable.

If the years following SB wins were the ONLY examples of this, I'd agree with you. But you can see it in all those scenarios I mentioned on several occasions. And to me, I don't see how it can be argued that it doesn't start with Tomlin's leadership because all these things have been major problems under him and can all be traced to the same root cause.

There is a difference between having no heart or lacking hunger and lacking talent and making bad coaching decisions. I don't think for a minute that Tomlin has lost his heart to coach. I don't think he is less hungry. I don't think he has put together a very talented team but I don't question the guys heart. He was mad as hell when he gave the "unleash hell" quote several years ago. Sometimes it isn't about
 
Really? So you think the default is for teams to be complacent? I think these guys work hard and to have some fan say they were complacent without any information other than "I feel" is asinine. So, it's valid for me to say Tomlin has given up the past two years? His heart isn't in it any more and I can feel that he is looking forward to moving on... rubbish.

In what sense did I ever state or imply that the "default" for teams is complacency? It's certainly not my explanation for every team that fails to live up to expectations. But it is a part of my explanation for why the 2006 Steelers did so. And it's a part of the reason the NFL hasn't seen back-to-back SB Champs in a while. Your explanation that the SB Champ faces a tougher schedule in the following year is garbage, given that only 2 games on the schedule are determined based on record and the 2006 Steelers faced a 2nd place schedule (vs. first place for the 2005 Steelers).
 
In what sense did I ever state or imply that the "default" for teams is complacency? It's certainly not my explanation for every team that fails to live up to expectations. But it is a part of my explanation for why the 2006 Steelers did so. And it's a part of the reason the NFL hasn't seen back-to-back SB Champs in a while. Your explanation that the SB Champ faces a tougher schedule in the following year is garbage, given that only 2 games on the schedule are determined based on record and the 2006 Steelers faced a 2nd place schedule (vs. first place for the 2005 Steelers).

At least 2 games is better than "I feel". You want to blame the 06 season on complacency when there are many better options... like a QB that had a near fatal accident, appendectomy surgery and a concussion during the season. But I guess logic and facts are foreign to you? Like I said, the 12' season and the 13' season could be said to be complacency as well right? Let's fire Tomlin since guys are slacking and he has obviously checked out. Ben has been healthy and there are no more excuses right?
 
I stopped reading after the article started off he's big, strong and athletic lmao yeah that's what Jarvis jones is

No need to make an annoucement
 
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