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Uncle Jarvis

Just to clarify, I don't think Dobre is getting at Jones' specifically, just the practice of what they call "pressures".

It seems like certain teams in the league (the Steelers being one of them) go out of their way to inflate stats, possibly to increase pro bowl votes or something. Ray Lewis was probably the biggest benefactor I could think of in his twilight years - any tackle he was within 3 yards of was credited to him.
 
insaniti said:
Maybe actually READ the article a bit more before trying to be the know it all jack *** you are coming off as.
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Yeah, I did misread that. And I apologize. You, however, can go blow yourself. Doesn't change the fact that their in-house stats are garbage. 25 hurries didn't lead the team, and I seriously doubt he had 15 in his final game.
 
Im just going by what i saw in the games Dobre. Jones showed good initials moves whether it was a burst outside or trying to bullrush like the play posted above, or on a spin inside. The initial move would be good. The finish not so much. The strength to finish the play was lacking. Saw it alot.
 
That's fine. I see it differently, but oh well. I shouldn't have come off so cross. Those junk stats have always been a pet-peeve of mine, long before they drafted Jones. And I get irritated every time I see them used by a spoonfed media too lazy to challenge what is obviously bullshit.
 
Hopefully Worlids and Jones become the terrors we need because this defense is in trouble if they dont. One has to step up. This defense is built thru the rush.
 
FWIW, I read somewhere yesterday that there will be a few packages for Shazier to have a go at edge-rushing.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Hopefully Worlids and Jones become the terrors we need because this defense is in trouble if they dont. One has to step up. This defense is built thru the rush.
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Talent wise i'm not worried about Jones or Worilds. I think they'll really turn some heads next season. Between those two i'm more worried about Worilds' health.

What i'm really worried about though is the LDE spot. Thomas is a reclamation project, Hood is gone (and a poor fit), McCullers being serviceable as a DE this year is a pipe dream, and every report i've read says that so far Tuitt hasn't shown anything noteworthy and has poor conditioning.
 
SteelerAl said:
We are all desperate to know "how [so and so] looks in OTAs" but these media reports mean exactly dick when it comes to real football and real games.
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You have a point there and I hope bluster is all it is, especially since the Steelers have hinted that they think he can start. However, as far as i've read so far he's had no first team snaps, most of them going to Cam Thomas. Correct me if i'm wrong.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
You have a point there and I hope bluster is all it is, especially since the Steelers have hinted that they think he can start. However, as far as i've read so far he's had no first team snaps, most of them going to Cam Thomas. Correct me if i'm wrong.
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It's OTAs man, just OTAs. Trying to draw conclusions based on a blurb here or there or expecting a rookie 2nd round draft choice to be running with the first team is just insane. We have a HOFer (Troy) who didn't look very impressive by the end of his rookie season and you are trying to draw a conclusion based on 6 practices in shorts???

Shazier getting to run with the #1s is highly unusual, and it only happened because Vince Williams is not exactly an incumbent starter since he only played last year due to injury.
 
SteelerAl said:
It's OTAs man, just OTAs. Trying to draw conclusions based on a blurb here or there or expecting a rookie 2nd round draft choice to be running with the first team is just insane. We have a HOFer (Troy) who didn't look very impressive by the end of his rookie season and you are trying to draw a conclusion based on 6 practices in shorts???

Shazier getting to run with the #1s is highly unusual, and it only happened because Vince Williams is not exactly an incumbent starter since he only played last year due to injury.
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I think you're overanalyzing my post. I'm sure Tuitt will be fine in the long run. That said, someone has to man LDE this season, and it looks like that man will be Cam Thomas.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
That said, someone has to man LDE this season, and it looks like that man will be Cam Thomas.
Click to expand...

See you did it again. You made a conclusion based on what's been happening over the first 6 OTAs. Let it play out...so much changes between the opening of training camp and when the games actually count.
 
Tibs said:
Hmmm, I wasn't aware of that. Not too shaby, of course, will be down-played by all the Jarvis-haters...
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Hurries are a subjective stat. I recently saw one site credit him with 8 hurries, not 25.
 
every stat is subjective unless it fits the agenda you're pushing.
 
SteelerAl said:
See you did it again. You made a conclusion based on what's been happening over the first 6 OTAs. Let it play out...so much changes between the opening of training camp and when the games actually count.
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These are the only conclusions I can make right now!

I don't know Tuitt from Adam. None of us do. All I know is what I read. Will it change once we get to real football? sure. But for right now it is what it is.

It's nice to keep an open mind but you're taking it a bit far.

When Shazier and Tuitt were drafted they were talked about in the same breath as far as starting and playing significant snaps as rookies. So far that's only happened with Shazier. It's early, but that's a change.
 
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I beliee it was pft has jones the second worst linebacker in the league in pass rush effectiveness. They use Hurries, sacks, hits etc to come up with thier grades. andrewjosh you're joking if you saw Jarvis have a first good move or not get owned by lt's. That's exactly what happened and he has zero moves and no strength to bullrush anyone.
 
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Xc944 said:
I beliee it was pft has jones the second worst linebacker in the league in pass rush effectiveness. They use Hurries, sacks, hits etc to come up with thier grades. andrewjosh you're joking if you saw Jarvis have a first good move or not get owned by lt's. That's exactly what happened and he has zero moves and no strength to bullrush anyone.
Click to expand...

Why would that ranking mean anything if hurries is a useless stat?
 
Superman said:
You read that wrong.
Jones is stronger this year than he was last year.
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Thanks for clearing that up! I guess I leaped before I looked. Porter looks like a walking muscle while jones has always looked like a pre-steroid baseball player.

As far as his "pressures" are concerned, I must admit he looked good against Joe Thomas (surprised) but the other pressures must have been counted when he was pushed past the pocket by 7 yards...sorta like a near-miss in aviation.
 
ark steel said:
Why would that ranking mean anything if hurries is a useless stat?
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I think people are saying that it's a useless stat if it's tracked poorly, like all stats. When you have one site claiming 26 sacks and another claiming 8, it's clear at least one (and probably both) are wrong.
 
DeaconKnowledge said:
I rewatched Jarvis' last two games - Bengals 2 and Browns 2 (he was out for the Packer game). Browns 2 specifically showed me a Jarvis I've never seen before. He was involved in every play, flying to the ball. He had a lot more coverage responsibilities too.

Bengals 2 was harder to notice him, since he rotated with Woodley for the first half of the game, and there was a ton going on otherwise in that game what with the Bengals getting their teeth smashed in. (Biggest takeaway I had from that rewatch is that the Steelers should have locked up Al Woods immediately. Oh well.)

Jarvis did a lot of good this season. Here's an example:

steelers1.gif


Jarvis didn't get the credit for the sack here, but he was instrumental in making it happen. That's Joe Thomas being walked back into the QB, not a Tight End.
Click to expand...

I was looking at the video you posted and watched it play and also noticed something else. Initially the protection has Ziggy Hood doubled but then the protection slides toward Worilds who is being blocked by a guard and tackle. His pass rush drives the quarterback up into the pocket and he appears to have eased up at the end of the play as he can tell the qb is already done. I am not taking anything away from Jarvis or Heyward as they played well on that play as well. Worilds looks like he is going to be something special on that play. The other thing I wanted to take away from that play is how well it was designed. Hood who has got contain is not rushing the QB. Worilds is going deep on the outside. Jones is going shallow outside. Heyward is slanting inside. Heyward and Jones are able to drive their men back as each of them is facing a one on one situation. Worilds is also able to affect the play even though he catches some of a double team.

The thing that I thought was most interesting from the rush lanes and the sack was the well designed pass rush. This was clearly not just a bunch of individual moves but was designed for guys to take certain routes to the QB and the effect was one that looked like you had few options from an offense perspective. Very good rush from our defensive coordinator. The other thing was this was with just 4 rushers.

Thanks for posting the video Deacon
 
Which is something Jarvis hinted at in another article. Not being able to do things he did in college rushing. In college he would do what he wanted rushing. Here Lebeau has an assignment for everything and everyone. Jarvis said because he knows the plays better now he knows he cant his rush inside when he is not suppossed to messing up the play for someone else and leaving his assignment exposed. Now he knows what everyone is doing not just himself. In college he was able do what he wanted. Its was probably a big adjustment not being able to do whatever you wanted to beat OTs. Especially as the pressure to make a play increased with every game.
 
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