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Idioteque
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Should I even ask for an example?
Uncle Jarvis
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Should I even ask for an example?
there are 627 examples on this very board, captain sport champ.
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I believe i said before last season that i wanted to see at least 4 sacks if he was a starter, but it's not just about stats. Most of those other guys didn't have huge stats. I'm more concerned about them flashing big play ability.
Polamalu didn't have a great rookie season, but what he did was every so often he would show that speed and make a play that made you think this guy will be great once he knows what he's doing.
Same thing with Joey Porter. It was obvious he didn't really know how to play LB but he was beating OTs clean and showing that huge potential.
What would make me have confidence in Jarvis? He could have started by whipping the ***** of the 3rd and 4th string OTs he faced in the preseason. But he never did. He was easily handled by practice squad guys and worse.
The most worrisome thing about JOnes is just how often he is completely stoned by that OT. No factor at all. A first round pass rusher should at least have a few plays per game where he beats an OT for a quick pressure, without some exotic blitz, without the OT falling over the G, without the QB holding the ball long enough for a coverage pressure.
If i saw Jarvis make an OT look silly once per game, i'd feel better about him. Jarvis had very few clean pressures last year. My concern is the Steelers spent a 1st round pick on Clark Haggans
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Dude, come on.....seriously?
As a heart attack unfortunately
Just like you to change the argument when you've been proven wrong. We're arguing team age, not potential.
I can project Tuitt as a starter, because he's on the roster, unlike Keisel, so YES it's a stretch to project someone who isn't on the team as a starter. It requires a suspension of logic and an altering of reality. FYI in my age range, I didn't include Tuitt's age as the projected starter on the low end, since Thomas will probably start, also didn't include Ike since I know he'll probably start too, but if you want to help support my argument for Gay starting then Cortez can start for Ike and we gain another 4 ******* years!. I understand math isn't your strong suit, and neither is understanding you lost an argument.
Here's your *** back... I don't want it.
dobre shunka
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I guess as I get older, I get tired of people spewing bullshit with no factual basis.
I think Jones had a sub-par first year, I'm hoping he doesn't have a sub-par second year. I saw a few flashes that give me hope he'll get better, but I don't claim to know. I come here to discuss football, but somehow this ******* board goes ************* batshit crazy over draft picks from time to time. I mean, batshit crazy as in almost 100 pages over a 3rd round pick. Hell, I like football, I like the steelers, I enjoy the game, the regular season, pre season, etc. NFL network is my go to filler channel, even in the offseason. But people get so ******* hung up on one guy, and was he really worth this and that, could we have traded down and still gotten him, how many picks did we lose because we didn't let this or that guy to, jeezuz ******* christ, I know that's all football related, but here is how I view it-
Each draft happens, you get x number of new players, then you sign x number of free agents. As long as enough of those players and free agents work out at positions that your team needs them to work out at, why the **** would you give a **** where they were drafted? It's not like you win a special ******* trophy if you do it with only first rounders, or with only udfa's, so really, if we take a **** in the first round, but end up with an awesome league leading wr from a later round, doesn't think kind of work out anyway?
I will never be "right" about a draft pick, because I pretty much don't even try to evaluate them till they've had a year or two with the team. Too many times I've seen guys who were supposed to be superstars flame out, and vice versa with late rounders and UDFA's. That's why I don't get it, you can, and will, find talented guys who don't get drafted at all (Willie Parker anyone?) and you'll also find first rounders that look great and **** the bed. Yet, every ******* year, this seems like news to people, and every ******* first rounder, second rounder, third, fourth and fifth better be a potential hall of fame talent, or we ****** the pooch and we're doomed.
Joe
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Seems about right.
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Hit the nail on the ******* head, completely accurate.
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Idioteque
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So you ONLY want facts on this board? No opinions, discussions, etc. - just report the score and close the board down until next Sunday?
Yeah, and about 8 of those pages are Archer-related. You and I both know who/what is keeping that thread going.
I guess, if you want the Steelers to draft with a "Well, most of these guys will suck, so let's just pick the first name out of the book!" approach that plays the odds.
This is the part that some of you have trouble following. I don't know how to explain it again.
Mostly feel the same way. ******* up a draft pick is taking Jamarcus Russell or Tim Couch at #1 overall. It's not taking Lawrence Timmons at #15. Gaines Adams, Levi Brown, Ted Ginn Jr., Amobi Okoye and Adam Carriker all went before Timmons. If somehow every player from the 2007 draft was taken away from his team and they did a re-draft today, where would Timmons be selected...my guess would be somewhere in the late teens to mid-20s...oh no what a fuckup! Colbert should be shot for not trading down (even though he wanted to but couldn't find a dance partner). Hell even if we drafted an All Pro like Revis (who went one pick before Timmons), his career in Pittsburgh would have ended in a debacle because he needs his contract re-done every year and the Rooneys don't play that game (when there is more than one year remaining on the original deal).
Last year there was so much talk about how Le'veon Bell was a 3rd round pick instead of a 2nd rounder...well I'm glad Bell is a Steeler and I think he'll prove himself more than worthy of being a 2nd round pick.
As far as Archer is concerned, there are certainly a few red flags. For the record I wanted Bruce Ellington or Bryant (thank GOODNESS he lasted) and would not have minded that big CB from Lindenwood (if we had taken him, would the same people be fretting about his level of competition or is it OK to take a small school guy as long as he "projects" to be a starter in some draft gurus imagination?). Something that hasn't come up much, if Archer is such an amazing and unstoppable blur why was he so incredibly ordinary in his first two seasons at Kent St.? That to me is a much bigger issue than the idea that Archer has had a "**** ton" of injuries (again, the same people bitching about Archer's injuries probably were pissed that we passed up on Sean Lee and Marcus Lattimore).
In terms of Archer only being a specialist player and never a starter / full-timer, that doesn't really bother me when we're talking about the #97 pick (I mean, ****, the punter that we signed, Podlesh, was taken at #101). I see a fair number of players picked ahead of Archer who look like slot WRs or nickel CBs to me. Hell, there was a short CB drafted in round one who some think might be best suited as a #3 CB. If Archer is special with the ball in his hands as a returner and occasional WR/RB "slash" weapon, he'll impact the game as much as a slot WR. We spent a 2nd round pick on Antwaan Randle El and, to me, he'll always be a slot WR who started some games as a #2 WR only because those teams did not have two true starting WRs. I also don't buy the idea that kickoffs are being "phased out" of the game. A dynamic returner (i.e. one who is not going to take a knee because the ball is 5 yards deep in the endzone) will get enough chances playing half his games at Heinz.
Lastly, my official prediction is that Archer will make the Pro Bowl as a kick returner in 2014.
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So by this chart, our 2013 defense was the oldest per the Snap Weighted Age chart.
Hmmmmmmmmmmm... Pretty much sums up what many of us have been saying.
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I wouldn't care if he didn't make the Pro Bowl, I believe that is a tad much like rose colored glasses. I just want him to have a positive impact on the return game. If or when he burns a few teams who kick to him, or if he takes a ball that is 8 yards deep in the end zone and manages to get it past the 30 on average, then he has effectively changed the field position. With his speed he theoretically should be able to do just that. If he can field punts that would truly make him more dynamic and even more valuable. Haven't seen that he has ever done that though.
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Idioteque
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I just don't see any of that on this board.
You don't see the constant harping that Timmons will never justify being picked at #15?
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Idioteque
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"Will never justify"? No, I haven't. Maybe I've missed some posts here and there, but I haven't seen that."Hasn't justified" I've heard (and said) for sure. Which I think is a fair opinion.
It is a fair opinion. But it's also a conversation that really doesn't interest me that much (as I tried to state in the post). You can't hit an absolute home run in round one every year, and - while a couple of the guys drafted after Timmons (Staley, Grubbs) would arguably have been better picks - it's not like we took Timmons over Patrick Willis or anything. Where do you think Timmons would go in my hypothetical "re-draft" scenario?
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You haven't proven anyone wrong. All you have done is flipped and flopped because you can't understand basic math and player personnel. I guess you one of those common core kids? I can project all the rookies as starters and make the age range huge. But that isn't reality. Hell why not put in Jones at QB since that'll drop the age on offense by a huge margin. You're a very special kind of stupid but even you should understand that math.
BTW since you're such a ******* math wiz the tell me how Keisel, who only started 12 game LAST year is counted as a starter when Gay, who started 11 games last year wasn't? You just pick and choose players to plug into your stupid equation.
Here's your head back... it's full of ****.
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Idioteque
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Yeah, I hear ya. Timmons' draft position isn't really relevant anymore; I'd say he was ultimately worth being a top-25 pick so we should all be done bitching about taking him at #15. It's not like we waffled on Timmons vs. J.J. Watt and chose Timmons, or anything. As for Timmons specifically, I'm more bothered by his contract than his 2007 draft position. But even the contract isn't kick-yer-dick out-of-control or anything. It's certainly higher than he deserves, but it's not the only contract that's hurt us lately. Frankly, I don't hate Timmons. I doubt anyone on this site does. A lot of us, like Vader and tape and myself, get that rap because we so often see posts like "TIMMONS WITH 5 TACKLES IN THA FIRST QUARTER TODAY - WHERE'ZZ IDIOT AND VADER TO TALK **** NOW?!?!?" and argue back with it. Get enough cheerleaders into a thread who think Timmons is Patrick Willis, and poof, you have a weekly Timmons "debate" of the same talking points over and over, and suddenly half the board are "haters" (one of the stupidest ******* words there is).
There's not a ton that I think the Steelers are dead wrong or stupid about. Not even the Dri Archer pick. It was ballsy and outside-the-box to go after a blazing fast wild card like that. Frankly, I like the Steelers' method of drafting first-rounders - they get their guy in ballsy fashion and don't fret over stuff like, "is this guy worthy of #15? No, he's more of a #19 guy? PASS!" I just disagree a lot lately with the guys they fall in love with - guys like Jarvis, Mike Adams, Worilds, Archer, etc. - guys I don't think have particularly bright NFL futures.
Wow.. a nice post idioteque.
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Here's the thing. I know this is true for me and I'm positive it's true for a few others. I was never in love with Timmons, Worilds, Jarvis, etc, when they first came aboard. They BECAME the players I root for the most for no other reason except that they were completely written off by you and a few others either before they ever stepped on a field or shortly after. I root for the Under Dog in life and always have, plain and simple. When people write a guy off real, real, REAL, early because of their personal biases, I root for him to shut them up. That's all there is to it. I've become a fan of players about 5 minutes after the draft selection comes in and I see what kind of Idiocy is going on here.
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Classic Vader. I don't have to prove you wrong. You've done the work for me, and everyone here can see it.
Gay is a wash (age wise) as a starter, since I didn't factor the age difference of the other corner. The minimum age range still is set for this non-change. I can put him in for Ike if I think he may start over him with Cortez on the other side. That would increase the age gap by 4 years though and hurt your argument further. But if you want to point out my mistake by showing you an even greater age difference, I'm happy to watch you blow up your own argument.
The Defense is SIGNIFICANTLY younger this year over last year. Nitpick, name call, and change the argument all you want, but this is the root and you were wrong.
That combined with his pay. He's a average ilb and isn't worth the pick/ money and there's no way to say he is. If we were paying him 3 mill a year you wouldn't here near the bitching after paying him 9.5 mill a year. He's not close to that kind of player
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how much do you think he deserves? and how much do you think he'd get in the open market?
