VA shooting

[Vader]

No I don't, not at all. There are shades of grey, you know, not just white (guns for all!) and black (no guns for anybody!).

Then tell me what you would do to stop gun violence without infringing on people's 2nd amendment rights.

 

[Tibs]

Then tell me what you would do to stop gun violence without infringing on people's 2nd amendment rights.

I already have. The second amendment doesn't say: Everyone can have a ******* gun, come 'n get 'em while they're hot! It gives citizen "the right" to bear arms. Let's establish a baseline of what that right entails, something any decent, sound-minded person would agree with. It really shocks me that any halfway normal person - including the most avid gun owners - wouldn't agree to some standard limits to access to weapons. For some bizarre, warped reason, people on the right, let's call them conservatives, oppose most every measure to implement gun control. It's madness, literally madness. There's got to be some middle ground here.

 

[Tibs]

There are many examples, by the way:

- The 21 year age limit on alcohol. Is it prohibition? No, adults can drink as much as they want. Can you purchase alcohol under 21? No you can't. Can you drive drunk? No you can't.
- You can get prescription meds through your doctor, if you have a condition that requires it. Can you sell your prescription to others? No you can't. Can a doc sell meds for cash? No they can't.
- The rules & regulations concerning handling chemicals & hazardous waste. There's a damn good reason they are in place.
- Red curbs mean no parking. What the hell? The government is going to limit where I can park my car? Yes, ********, so firetrucks can pull up when they need to.

And the list goes on. Why freak the **** out about gun control and the 2nd amendment? Yes, you have a right under the Constitution to purchase and own a firearm. So what if there are rules attached to that right, that benefit all of society? Why the pseudo outrage if there are limits and controls in place? How ******* crazy is that?

It's like saying:

- I have a right to have access to liquour whenever I want. The government can't impose an age limit, nor can it tell me that I can't drive when I'm ****** up. I can do as I please.
- Prescription meds? Everyone should have free access, no stupid government should be able to regulate that.
- I can dump whatever chemical & hazardous waste in the drain, or in my backyard, or wherever I want. I can do anything I want, it's my Constitutional right.
- **** red curbs. I'm a free man, I'm an American, I can park where I want. If there's a fire, let the firetrucks park around the block. How dare they impose on my freedoms?

The first sane, reasonable gun owner I meet will be the first of its kind. It's like if you own a gun, they manually switch off your sense of reason and being reasonable. What gives?

 

[EdReed4Prez]

I already have. The second amendment doesn't say: Everyone can have a ******* gun, come 'n get 'em while they're hot! It gives citizen "the right" to bear arms. Let's establish a baseline of what that right entails, something any decent, sound-minded person would agree with. It really shocks me that any halfway normal person - including the most avid gun owners - wouldn't agree to some standard limits to access to weapons. For some bizarre, warped reason, people on the right, let's call them conservatives, oppose most every measure to implement gun control. It's madness, literally madness. There's got to be some middle ground here.

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Pretty ******* clear language. The problem with the gun control movement is that gun enthusiasts can look at fine liberal states like NJ and see how ******* far liberals want to go. You can not conceal carry in this state without bribing a judge. No "common sense" gun control in liberal utopia. They want no guns.

 

[steelrzgirl]

There is a story in Houston every day of a homeowner or business owner who has shot an intruder/robber. The only registered gun is the person being robbed. IJS.

 

[Tibs]

the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. Pretty ******* clear language.

The pen is mightier than the gun

You can not conceal carry in this state without bribing a judge.

Is this a "living in New Jersey" thing or a bonafide 2nd amendment issue?

No "common sense" gun control in liberal utopia. They want no guns.

Yeah man, who would want to own a gun? Metal and cold, purveyor of death with a bullet. We have enough rabbits, squirrels and butterflies to look after. Of course we don't want guns. Why would we? Us liberals are all Birkenstock-wearing, Che Guerva-reading, granola-eating, pot-smoking, nut-hugging **** suckers. Everyone knows that.

 

[MT~Forged]

And they call that obscure document an amendment for a reason. It should be amended again, to better reflect common day reality, and not a day and age when people carried muskets around to protect themselves against a tyrannical goverment.

You are truly a ******* moron.

 

[Vader]

I already have. The second amendment doesn't say: Everyone can have a ******* gun, come 'n get 'em while they're hot! It gives citizen "the right" to bear arms. Let's establish a baseline of what that right entails, something any decent, sound-minded person would agree with. It really shocks me that any halfway normal person - including the most avid gun owners - wouldn't agree to some standard limits to access to weapons. For some bizarre, warped reason, people on the right, let's call them conservatives, oppose most every measure to implement gun control. It's madness, literally madness. There's got to be some middle ground here.

You're just arguing against the 2nd amendment but not one clear statement about what you would do. You keep saying middle ground yet you haven't offered ONE solution.

Also alcohol is NOT a right. Liberals love "rights" until they don't like them. Prescriptions are NOT a right. You keep bring up issues that have nothing to do with the 2nd amendment. There are limits on ALL the rights even the 2nd amendment. You can't own one if you are a felon. You can't own one if you are under a certain age depending on the state. You can't use one while drunk. You can't even have one while drunk. So I have no idea where you get this "they manually switch off your sense of reason and being reasonable" bullshit you keep spouting. In the great hell holes ran by anti gun dems like Chicago, Washington and NY there are tons of restrictions. How's that going for you?

Again tell me what it is you want. You haven't given ONE single thing other than trying to equate the 2nd amendment with bull **** issues that aren't even rights.

 

[Tibs]

You are truly a ******* moron.

**** you dude. Call your mother a moron.

 

[diver]

That's total bullshit there isn't a gun problem in the US. Keep telling yourself that. Just look around the world at other industrial, western nations and study the firearm death/murder numbers. It's crazy for you to think that, or it just proves that you - among many others - live entirely in a vacuum.


Really, not much at all. Just tighten up current gun laws, from who gets to buy them, to how long it takes, to what type of background checks are involved. Get rid of military-style automatic weapons, or significantly reduce access to them. Legitimate gun owners would have no issues keeping and purchasing guns as they wish. But it shouldn't be as easy as buying a friggin' scoop of ice cream. Reduce access to guns, clamp down on black market, gun show sales, do a buy-back program like they had in Australia and try to get lowlife bums to sell off some of their weapons. Not even sure it would work, but at this stage, with as many mass shootings that have taken place, it's worth a try.

See, right here, it shows you just do not know what you are talking about. You can't have those weapons, unless you have a special license, which is very expensive, and one in which because you have it, you forfeit other rights, like protections under search and seizure. Your average gun owner doesn't even dream of that license.

Every time I bought a gun at a gun show I went through the background check procedure. The gun show loophole is bullshit. It is an excuse to shut them down.

 

[Tibs]

You keep saying middle ground yet you haven't offered ONE solution.

English is a wonderful language, learn it or leave it...

Tighten up current gun laws, from who gets to buy them, to how long it takes, to what type of background checks are involved. Get rid of military-style automatic weapons, or significantly reduce access to them. Legitimate gun owners would have no issues keeping and purchasing guns as they wish. But it shouldn't be as easy as buying a friggin' scoop of ice cream. Reduce access to guns, clamp down on black market, gun show sales, do a buy-back program like they had in Australia and try to get lowlife bums to sell off some of their weapons.

 

[DBS1970]

And they call that obscure document an amendment for a reason. It should be amended again, to better reflect common day reality, and not a day and age when people carried muskets around to protect themselves against a tyrannical goverment.

The rifled Pennsylvania Musket was actually more technologically advanced than the smooth bore Brown Bess musket that was state of the art for military use at the time. The need for an armed populace is even greater now than it was then since the would be tyrants are now residing on this continent. And just so you know the right to keep and bear arms comes from God not from the document. The document was and is meant to restrict the government not the individual.

 

[diver]

You have posted your solutions twice. Do you know what an automatic weapon is? Do you realize they are banned?

 

[Vader]

English is a wonderful language, learn it or leave it...

See there you go again. Not one solution. You're "tighten up gun laws" is bullshit because you aren't explaining anything. As driver has said the military style weapon is bullshit and you know it. Again no solution just painting gun owners as irrational while offering not one real solution to anything.

 

[MT~Forged]

**** you dude. Call your mother a moron.

While you may find it hard to believe, my mother is not a moron. You sir do not rise to the intellectual level of my mother, but fell free to keep trying, as you are currently failing badly.


All I can figure is that you lost the right to own a gun legally, and it pisses you off that others are law abiding and able to legally own them.

 

[diver]

I would also argue our forefathers never would have conceived of the absolute garbage that comes out of our TV sets on a daily basis, either. You ready to junk freedom of speech?

 

[Tibs]

Every time I bought a gun at a gun show I went through the background check procedure.

Awesome, that's the way it should be. Is that that case at gun shows around the country? Do you think there are gun shows or conventions where there's less of a paper trail? Guns bought and sold out of trunks of cars in the parking lot?

 

[diver]

Awesome, that's the way it should be. Is that that case at gun shows around the country? Do you think there are gun shows or conventions where there's less of a paper trail? Guns bought and sold out of trunks of cars in the parking lot?

As it pertains to gun shows/paper trail. The consequences for someone selling guns inside the show if they do not go through the procedure is severe, so they do. As per the second part, yes, that certainly does occur. You are correct. However, what law do you propose that would stop that? Make it illegal? OK. It is illegal to sell guns black market, and that hasn't stopped anything. And, this is important, the guy selling a gun out of his trunk at a gun show wants top dollar. Most of your criminals don't want to pay top dollar, so they ain't gonna go there. They will get one on the street for a hell of a lot cheaper. It is what always cracked me up about the argument that terrorists wrre arming themselves at gunshows. Yea right. An AK-47 type rifle, which due to our laws is only semi-auto, if you know the difference, sells for $500-$600 dollars. You can go o a street corner in Baghdad and get the real thing, full auto for $75 bucks. Yea, they are going to gun shows.

 

[Tibs]

While you may find it hard to believe, my mother is not a moron.

Forged, I am sorry for telling you to call your mom a moron. I've never met your mom, I'll take you at your word that she's not a moron. I figured if you can call me a ******* moron without saying it to my face, I can tell you to do the same to your mother. Just an odd way to respond on a messageboard - I thought - to call someone a ******* moron. Maybe being a gun advocate gives you license to be an *******? I don't know.

All I can figure is that you lost the right to own a gun legally, and it pisses you off that others are law abiding and able to legally own them.

Correct, this is the case. I tried with all my might to get my hands on a gun but was rejected numerous times, despite my best efforts. I've spent the past few years being bitter and desolute. Others can own guns, why can't I? Have never been able to understand it, or accept it. Really pisses me off. I spend most of my afternoons staring through the screen door pondering what went wrong.

 

[DBS1970]

The citizens should be able to own the same weaponry as the government. That includes artillery, mortars and tactical aircraft. The only things that should be purview of the government only are strategic weapons like nukes. The battles at Lexington and Concorde were fought because the British were coming to confiscate privately owned cannon, powder and cannonballs. It will be impossible for the Neo-Socialists to impose Agenda21 on an armed populace.

 

[MT~Forged]

Really, not much at all. Just tighten up current gun laws, from who gets to buy them, to how long it takes, to what type of background checks are involved. Get rid of military-style automatic weapons, or significantly reduce access to them. Legitimate gun owners would have no issues keeping and purchasing guns as they wish. But it shouldn't be as easy as buying a friggin' scoop of ice cream. Reduce access to guns, clamp down on black market, gun show sales, do a buy-back program like they had in Australia and try to get lowlife bums to sell off some of their weapons. Not even sure it would work, but at this stage, with as many mass shootings that have taken place, it's worth a try.

- How do you "tighten" up current gun laws?
- Who gets to choose who can buy them?
- How long should it take?
- What more needs to be checked that isn't?
- "Get rid of military Styled automatic weapons". These are ALREADY not available to the general population.
- "Legitimate gun owners would have no issues keeping and purchasing guns as they wish". We can already do this.
- "shouldn't be as easy as buying a friggin' scoop of ice cream.", it really isn't, go try to buy one yourself, but be sure to do it legally.
- "get lowlife bums to sell off some of their weapons." Good luck with that, let me know how it works for you.

 

[diver]

Awesome, that's the way it should be. Is that that case at gun shows around the country? Do you think there are gun shows or conventions where there's less of a paper trail? Guns bought and sold out of trunks of cars in the parking lot?

Another thing with this, is there are plenty of gun laws already on the books. They have to be enforced to mean anything. We have a President right now that is more interested in making cheap political points than enforcing laws, not only guns, but other things. Same thing with Clinton in the 90s. They are both allright with death, as long as it advance es their political narrative. Let's enforce the laws on the books now, AGGRESSIVELY, and see what happens before we think about anything new.

 

[MT~Forged]

Forged, I am sorry for telling you to call your mom a moron. I've never met your mom, I'll take you at your word that she's not a moron. I figured if you can call me a ******* moron without saying it to my face, I can tell you to do the same to your mother. Just an odd way to respond on a messageboard - I thought - to call someone a ******* moron. Maybe being a gun advocate gives you license to be an *******? I don't know.

Correct, this is the case. I tried with all my might to get my hands on a gun but was rejected numerous times, despite my best efforts. I've spent the past few years being bitter and desolute. Others can own guns, why can't I? Have never been able to understand it, or accept it. Really pisses me off. I spend most of my afternoons staring through the screen door pondering what went wrong.

I called you a moron, I can also accept the fact that you may also believe I am on too. How that equates to bringing in my mother to the argument, I guess I am not "smart" enough to follow that logic.

The first step is admitting you have a problem.

 

[MT~Forged]

The citizens should be able to own the same weaponry as the government. That includes artillery, mortars and tactical aircraft. The only things that should be purview of the government only are strategic weapons like nukes. The battles at Lexington and Concorde were fought because the British were coming to confiscate privately owned cannon, powder and cannonballs. It will be impossible for the Neo-Socialists to impose Agenda21 on an armed populace.

These historical FACTS are lost on people trying to promote an agenda.

 

[Tibs]

Let's enforce the laws on the books now, AGGRESSIVELY, and see what happens before we think about anything new.

I can agree with this diver. Not sure it's the President's job to personally enforce this ...but agree to your wider point that current laws - if enforced - are probably suitable.

To the other posts in this thread, I'd like to say I don't have ANY answers and I certainly don't have an agenda. I simply appreciate a decent argument on gun control. You gentlemen - for the most part - have brought up some valid points. I think we all agree it would be good to keep guns - and other weapons - out of the hands of those that want to harm others. Be it the massacres at schools & churches over the years, or people gunning - themselves - and each other down in alleys and backyards. I agree it's primarily a mental health issue, perhaps a drug and alcohol issue. Guns don't pick themselves up off the ground and start murdering people. I get that. But let's not exclude the hardware altogether....Pulling a trigger on a gun is a damn fast and easy answer to any question...be it suicide, homicide, what have you.

I'm not ready to go full Mad Max, where we're all armed to the teeth and shoot before we ask questions. Maybe we're there already...