VA shooting

[Tibs]

I'm sure you don't think much about any of it. Most liberals don't. They want to "fundamentally" change the country. They don't really like the country. I'm not surprised that you want the amendments changed. If you had your way the U.S. would look like western Europe.

Sorry Vader, I didn't have a chance to reply to this utter bullshit that you wrote here, my bad. There are so many things that chap my hide, I've got to take them one by one...

I'm sure you don't think much about any of it. Most liberals don't.

We're talking here - very narrowly - about gun laws. I find it insulting - a slap in the face - you're suggesting I don't hold our Constitution in high regard.

Most liberals don't. They want to "fundamentally" change the country.

I shudder at the thought you think I want to fundamentally change the country.

They don't really like the country.

This takes the cake. I suggest something needs to change regarding rampant violence, you declare me to be somehow unpatriotic.

If you had your way the U.S. would look like western Europe.

Dude, I live in Eastern Europe. I've had enough $15 cappucinos in 'Western Europe' to wish that on anyone. The EU is a big stinkhole compared to the States. Everything besides maybe architecture and....gun laws.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Homocide rate is very low at the moment Tibs. Steady decline since the 80's, steady increase in gun sales too.

 

[diver]

I can agree with this diver. Not sure it's the President's job to personally enforce this ...but agree to your wider point that current laws - if enforced - are probably suitable.

To the other posts in this thread, I'd like to say I don't have ANY answers and I certainly don't have an agenda. I simply appreciate a decent argument on gun control. You gentlemen - for the most part - have brought up some valid points. I think we all agree it would be good to keep guns - and other weapons - out of the hands of those that want to harm others. Be it the massacres at schools & churches over the years, or people gunning - themselves - and each other down in alleys and backyards. I agree it's primarily a mental health issue, perhaps a drug and alcohol issue. Guns don't pick themselves up off the ground and start murdering people. I get that. But let's not exclude the hardware altogether....Pulling a trigger on a gun is a damn fast and easy answer to any question...be it suicide, homicide, what have you.

I'm not ready to go full Mad Max, where we're all armed to the teeth and shoot before we ask questions. Maybe we're there already...

The thing is Tibs, the President sets the tone. He can tell his Justice Department to be aggressive or not. Both Obama and Bill Clinton before him have not been aggressive as it pertains to gun laws. To make it even worse, the Obama Justice Department formulated Fast and Furious, in which they allowed guns to be sold to Mexican drug cartel members in hopes of "following" them, hence the cartels. It blew up in their face when a border agent was killed with one of those guns. The real reason behind doing this was to blame the gun freedoms that Americans have for the problems with gun violence in Mexico. It's crazy.

This is one of the problems I have when people talk about new gun laws. The people in charge do not enforce what is there, knowing that through this non-enforcement there will be deaths. When there are deaths, they can then get on their high-horse and demand new laws, stating the ones they refused to enforce do not work. So if you allow these new laws, you have to know that those won't be enforced, either. So the next tragedy comes along and, guess what, new laws will be proposed. Make no mistake, the ultimate goal is to disarm the American people. If it wasn't, they would first try to enforce what is law already and would not come up with schemes like Fast and Furious. This is why a lot of us are so vehemently opposed to this "common sense" law crap.

 

[diver]

Another reason I will do everything I can, which ain't much, to oppose new gun laws is because I realize that in this fight, it is just us. What I mean is if we think the milk-sop Republican Party is on our side on this, we aren't thinking. The Republican Party is a party of convenience. They only support gun rights because it is a way to get them votes. Push comes to shove, they will fold on that like they do everything else. At least I know the Democrat position. What is worse is when you think you have an ally, and then they bail on you.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Dude, I live in Eastern Europe. I've had enough $15 cappucinos in 'Western Europe' to wish that on anyone. The EU is a big stinkhole compared to the States. Everything besides maybe architecture and....gun laws.

After spending two weeks in Italy a couple years ago I was like, "Damn, I've gotta live here" until I looked into it and found that their economy is in worse shape than ours. Also they uh, have strict immigration laws.

 

[Rod Farva]

That's total bullshit there isn't a gun problem in the US. Keep telling yourself that. Just look around the world at other industrial, western nations and study the firearm death/murder numbers. It's crazy for you to think that, or it just proves that you - among many others - live entirely in a vacuum.


Really, not much at all. Just tighten up current gun laws, from who gets to buy them, to how long it takes, to what type of background checks are involved. Get rid of military-style automatic weapons, or significantly reduce access to them. Legitimate gun owners would have no issues keeping and purchasing guns as they wish. But it shouldn't be as easy as buying a friggin' scoop of ice cream. Reduce access to guns, clamp down on black market, gun show sales, do a buy-back program like they had in Australia and try to get lowlife bums to sell off some of their weapons. Not even sure it would work, but at this stage, with as many mass shootings that have taken place, it's worth a try.

Your two bolded sentences are at odds with one another.

I would hardly call the 2nd Amendment "a pillar" of the Constitution, but if you see it that way, I'm sure it is.

EVERY WORD of the Constitution is a pillar of the document.

The second amendment doesn't say: Everyone can have a ******* gun, come 'n get 'em while they're hot! It gives citizen "the right" to bear arms. Let's establish a baseline of what that right entails, something any decent, sound-minded person would agree with. It really shocks me that any halfway normal person - including the most avid gun owners - wouldn't agree to some standard limits to access to weapons. For some bizarre, warped reason, people on the right, let's call them conservatives, oppose most every measure to implement gun control. It's madness, literally madness. There's got to be some middle ground here.

The second amendment says exactly " Everyone can have a ******* gun ."
"Baselines" have been established.......won't re-hash them. But people have a knee jerk reaction to media sensationalizing of gun abuses and consistently want to move those baselines. On one hand you agree that exercising current laws would help the issue but then want to create more laws.....pick a stance.

There are many examples, by the way:

- The 21 year age limit on alcohol. Is it prohibition? No, adults can drink as much as they want. Can you purchase alcohol under 21? No you can't. Can you drive drunk? No you can't.
- You can get prescription meds through your doctor, if you have a condition that requires it. Can you sell your prescription to others? No you can't. Can a doc sell meds for cash? No they can't.
- The rules & regulations concerning handling chemicals & hazardous waste. There's a damn good reason they are in place.
- Red curbs mean no parking. What the hell? The government is going to limit where I can park my car? Yes, ********, so firetrucks can pull up when they need to.

And the list goes on. Why freak the **** out about gun control and the 2nd amendment? Yes, you have a right under the Constitution to purchase and own a firearm. So what if there are rules attached to that right, that benefit all of society? Why the pseudo outrage if there are limits and controls in place? How ******* crazy is that?

It's like saying:

- I have a right to have access to liquour whenever I want. The government can't impose an age limit, nor can it tell me that I can't drive when I'm ****** up. I can do as I please.
- Prescription meds? Everyone should have free access, no stupid government should be able to regulate that.
- I can dump whatever chemical & hazardous waste in the drain, or in my backyard, or wherever I want. I can do anything I want, it's my Constitutional right.
- **** red curbs. I'm a free man, I'm an American, I can park where I want. If there's a fire, let the firetrucks park around the block. How dare they impose on my freedoms?

The first sane, reasonable gun owner I meet will be the first of its kind. It's like if you own a gun, they manually switch off your sense of reason and being reasonable. What gives?

Completely specious and unsupportable argument Tibs.....there exists no language guaranteeing the right to any of the things you cite other than gun ownership.

 

[Superman]

I've yet to see one person explain how they intend to remove guns from the hands of criminals. All I see and read about is how we can make it more difficult for the law-abiding citizen to purchase guns.

Could someone please explain how we remove guns from the hands of criminals?

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I've yet to see one person explain how they intend to remove guns from the hands of criminals. All I see and read about is how we can make it more difficult for the law-abiding citizen to purchase guns.

Could someone please explain how we remove guns from the hands of criminals?

Criminals are expected to obey the law too. It's not fair if they don't.

 

[Steelr4evr]

criminals don't obey gun laws?...gasp...well we just need to remove ALL guns&sharps objects from the population for their own good.Only loyal workers of the state need to be armed. Now shut up and do as you're told...back in line.

 

[DBS1970]

Not necessarily, as freedom of the press has not caused an epidemic of murders around the country with no end in sight.

Guns haven't caused a murder epidemic either. In fact since they are inanimate object they cant cause anything. But you know what has caused more homicides in the our country? Neo-Socialist policies that have destroyed the family unit in the minority communities. Its no mystery why kids that grow up without real parental supervision turn up running feral and uncivilized.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Frame of reference for this epidemic.

 

[Vader]

We're talking here - very narrowly - about gun laws. I find it insulting - a slap in the face - you're suggesting I don't hold our Constitution in high regard.

How could I think you did when you said it was an "obscure document" and it should be "amended again". Yup seems like you hold it in very high regard.

I shudder at the thought you think I want to fundamentally change the country.

You have been on here for years defending Obama who said EXACTLY that. That's what he ran on and that's what you've supported. Also you have supported Sanders who is an avowed socialist. He wants what you have in Europe to come here. So I don't know what the hell you're talking about really. Obama has take a chainsaw to the constitution by executive fiat. He's taken powers away from the congress and has used executive orders to re-write laws. Yet you are all for it. Again no idea what you are talking about.

This takes the cake. I suggest something needs to change regarding rampant violence, you declare me to be somehow unpatriotic.

Dude, I live in Eastern Europe. I've had enough $15 cappucinos in 'Western Europe' to wish that on anyone. The EU is a big stinkhole compared to the States. Everything besides maybe architecture and....gun laws.

Rampant violence? WTF? Crime rates are dropping while gun sales are exploding. And again gun deaths are not even a drop in the bucket in overall deaths. Gun deaths also include those by cops and armed citizens. So you are left with a small % of real gun crime. Yet you are willing to re-amend the constitution for this? And you don't even know what you'd amend it to?

You also say you don't want to change to Europe but that is exactly what you are espousing. Not just with gun laws. You wanted to change the health care system. Since you support Sanders I guess you want single payer? I'm also guessing you wanted to change marriage laws right? Obama wants to subsidize green energy and have high gasoline like Europe. And like I said you like Sanders so I assume you are willing to go further than even Obama in the ways of socialism right?

 

[Hineswardkickedurpanzyass]

more people annually are killed by hammers and knives than guns.
i say we ban every goddamn thing.
especially common sense and morality.

We need to start with swimming pools, ITS FOR THE CHILDrEN!

On another note, I shot a custom $3k AR today. Pure heaven. Somehow I managed to not kill any of the 11 people I was shooting with.