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We are being badly misled about the Ukraine-Russia war

Steeltime

I miss Apache
Forefather
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"Truth is the first casualty of war."
- Anonymous

I am sure that nobody will be surprised at my observation that we are being lied to - significantly and constantly - about the Ukraine-Russia war. First, the war could have ended in April or May of 2022 when Putin offered to withdraw Russian troops to their to pre-invasion location in return for Ukraine's guarantee not to join NATO. Ukraine was pressured by Boris Johnson to reject the deal.

Russian President Vladimir Putin reportedly showed the draft of an outline or preliminary agreement signed by the Ukrainian delegation in Istanbul in early 2022. It allegedly provided that Russia would pull back to pre-war lines if Ukraine would agree not to join NATO (but Ukraine could receive security guarantees from the West).

This document has not been publicly released yet, but no one seriously contests that it exists. The only dispute is over what happened subsequently; Ukraine contends the deal fell apart. However, the availability of a deal based on Ukrainian neutrality is consistent with previous comments from Naftali Bennett, who said among other things that a deal was attainable but rejected by the West.


Second, Ukrainian losses have been substantial. The nation has suffered approximately 125,000 casualties of an army of 125,000 standing infantry. Their forces are now largely reservists, including those up to age 60. Only desperate nations draft 60-year olds for their armies.

Third, Ukraine's offensive is bogged down and proving very costly. Ukraine is spending vast amounts of its (borrowed) tanks and infantry in an offensive that is moving yards, not miles, per day. Ukraine has lost between 8 and 10 of the 85 Leopard 2 tanks that Germany loaned (gave) Ukraine, and Ukraine has also lost at least half of its "breaching" vehicles (tanks basically fitted with equipment designed to clear land mines and open a path for tanks and infantry). Ukraine has also lost 16 of the 109 Bradley fighting vehicles (armored troop transports with 25mm chain gun and 2 TOW missiles) the United States gave Ukraine. This is not surprising since attacking a fortified defensive position is costly, and since Russia has vastly superior air power in play.


Meanwhile, the United States has already spent more than a hundred billion dollars to keep Ukraine afloat and has provided more than 1,700 Stinger missiles, 10,000 Javelin anti-armor systems, 160 Howitzer 155mm artillery, more than 2 million 155mm artillery rounds, 20 Mi-17 helicopters, 109 Bradley fighting vehicles, one Patriot missile defense systems, 65 Abrams M1-A1 tanks, 38 HIMARS, 345,000 mortar rounds, 4,000 TOW missiles, and on and on and on and on.


These weapons systems and ammunition are not 9mm rounds; they take a lot of time and money to replace.

So the war drags on, draining our nation's equipment and ammunition, costing us hundreds of billions of dollars, for a war that Ukraine very well could lose and for a war that should have been stopped more than a year ago. And unfortunately, as always seems to be the case with every war the United States has fought over the past 50+ years, we are being lied to every day about what is going on - "Ukraine is dominating! Look at that fighting spirit! The N. Vietnamese Afghanis Taliban Russians cannot possibly win! Whee!!"
 
It’s not going well. I can tell you that NATO is starting to have reservations about their support for Ukraine. Rumor has it that Ukraine’s counter offensive has to produce return on NATO’s investment or they’re going to consider pulling the plug. Can’t keep throwing our nation’s defense down a black hole with no results.
 
How long will Americans spend money on an unwinnable war that isn't ours?
 
Would there have been a war if DT was in office? 🤔
I don't think Trump would have stopped the war, but he may have cut back the support for Ukraine. With a dem controlled congress this would have been difficult though. Bottom line is the USA should stay out of other people's business unless it is going to present a global crisis. The Ukraine / Russia war shows that Russia is clearly not the military power it used to be and does not really pose a global threat unless we are talking about nukes. At this point i have to wonder if Russias nuclear capability is also over estimated
 
Would there have been a war if DT was in office? 🤔
Probably not. My take is that Trump's policies were keeping oil and natural gas prices low. With prices up, Putin is making more money and can afford to start a war.
 
Probably not. My take is that Trump's policies were keeping oil and natural gas prices low. With prices up, Putin is making more money and can afford to start a war.
Let’s also not forget the DJT warned our European “Allies” that they were far to dependent on Russian energy and cautioned them against not keeping up their treaty obligations for defense spending.
 
I don't think Trump would have stopped the war, but he may have cut back the support for Ukraine. With a dem controlled congress this would have been difficult though. Bottom line is the USA should stay out of other people's business unless it is going to present a global crisis. The Ukraine / Russia war shows that Russia is clearly not the military power it used to be and does not really pose a global threat unless we are talking about nukes.

Zelensky's and Biden's claim that "we need to stop Russia at Ukraine or they keep going into Western Europe" was a lie. Putin wanted to re-establish Ukraine as part of Russia since the territory had been part of Russia since 1793. That is longer than Texas has been part of the United States.

At this point i have to wonder if Russias nuclear capability is also over estimated.

Not a good idea to test that theory.

Oh, and I still owe Jimmy $50.

Now THIS is something we can agree on.
 
Zelensky's and Biden's claim that "we need to stop Russia at Ukraine or they keep going into Western Europe" was a lie. Putin wanted to re-establish Ukraine as part of Russia since the territory had been part of Russia since 1793. That is longer than Texas has been part of the United States.



Not a good idea to test that theory.



Now THIS is something we can agree on.
I LoL’d at the last part.
 
How long will Americans spend money on an unwinnable war that isn't ours?

7q7et5.jpg
 
"WE are not doing enough! Viva la Ukraine!"
/Tibs
 
"WE are not doing enough! Viva la Ukraine!"
/Tibs

Yep. Tibilo is incredibly brave ... in putting others in danger. Ukraine will accept any moderately healthy person 60 years old and younger into their military. Given Tibilo's devout antipathy towards Putin and Russia, his absolute conviction as to the moral status of the war, and his insistence that our country give Zelensky everything he wants to fight the invaders, can somebody explain why he hasn't signed up?
 
Yep. Tibilo is incredibly brave ... in putting others in danger. Ukraine will accept any moderately healthy person 60 years old and younger into their military. Given Tibilo's devout antipathy towards Putin and Russia, his absolute conviction as to the moral status of the war, and his insistence that our country give Zelensky everything he wants to fight the invaders, can somebody explain why he hasn't signed up?
don't forget - he comes from a rather short lineage of men who put commies in the ground.
no, silly, not commies like him. the other commies.
 
Yep. Tibilo is incredibly brave ... in putting others in danger. Ukraine will accept any moderately healthy person 60 years old and younger into their military. Given Tibilo's devout antipathy towards Putin and Russia, his absolute conviction as to the moral status of the war, and his insistence that our country give Zelensky everything he wants to fight the invaders, can somebody explain why he hasn't signed up?

who would make the lattes?
 
In order to help find the missing submarine, President Biden has committed an additional $5 billion to Ukraine.
 
Yep. Tibilo is incredibly brave ... in putting others in danger. Ukraine will accept any moderately healthy person 60 years old and younger into their military. Given Tibilo's devout antipathy towards Putin and Russia, his absolute conviction as to the moral status of the war, and his insistence that our country give Zelensky everything he wants to fight the invaders, can somebody explain why he hasn't signed up?
I will take "Chicken **** Huddled in His Safe Space" for $2,000 Alex.
 
In order to help find the missing submarine, President Biden has committed an additional $5 billion to Ukraine.


But of course that was a ploy since we detected the implosion shortly after they lost contact.

Speaking of that, I saw that sardine can,you need big balls to go 2.5 miles under in that thing. Good thing for them that it was over in less than the blink of an eye.
 
But of course that was a ploy since we detected the implosion shortly after they lost contact.

Speaking of that, I saw that sardine can,you need big balls to go 2.5 miles under in that thing. Good thing for them that it was over in less than the blink of an eye.
As I said on FB,

Bucket List
1. Monaco Grand Prix
2. Indy 500 X
3. Caribbean Cruise X
4. Submarine Ride To The Titanic NVM
5. Daytona 500
6. Trip To Italy X
7. Zipline Ride X
 
But of course that was a ploy since we detected the implosion shortly after they lost contact.

Speaking of that, I saw that sardine can,you need big balls to go 2.5 miles under in that thing. Good thing for them that it was over in less than the blink of an eye.
In a hot water tank with a PS5 controller! Lol right
 
As I said on FB,

Bucket List
1. Monaco Grand Prix
2. Indy 500 X
3. Caribbean Cruise X
4. Submarine Ride To The Titanic NVM
5. Daytona 500
6. Trip To Italy X
7. Zipline Ride X

4.They're going to need a new sub for that. At least commercially. That thing should have full x-rays after every time it dives deep like that. I guess the main chamber was 5 inches of carbon fiber and titanium. Thing was around 22,000 pounds. I'm sure when they drag all of the pieces up they'll get a good idea what caused the failure and they,ll improve the design. The pressure at that depth is around 6000 psi or 5,500 lbs of force per square inch...woooweee...lol

Yeah that's definitely not on my list...lol.
 
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