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Idioteque
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In what ways?
Who do you take at 1:15 if...
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In what ways?
But those must be taken with a grain of salt. or two.
some mocks I've seen have Mosley as not making it out of the top 15. even the write-up analysis of him at nfl.com states he's a top 15 player.
not trying to make this into an argument, just stating there are differing opinions.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2014/profiles/ra'shede-hageman?id=2543478
Analysis
Strengths
Long and well-proportioned. Intriguing height-weight-speed ratio and natural athleticism. Flashes the ability explode off the ball, jolt blockers and disrupt the backfield. Terrific movement, flexibility and range. Loose ankles. Can work the edges. Able to redirect and chase athletically. Fierce tackler. Rare leaping ability for his size (workout all-star). Disrupts passing lanes. Has a "wow" factor at his best. Has immense upside. Team captain.
Weaknesses
Wide gap between physical ability and performance on tape. Green eyes, instincts and understanding of blocking schemes. Motor idles. Too often lets his pads rise and exposes his frame. Does not play to his length. On skates vs. double teams. Hand use needs work. Unsophisticated counters and pass-rush moves. Aimless pass rusher in need of a plan. Minimal, inflated sack production. Still learning to convert speed to power. Does not dominate single blocking. Needs more glass in his diet. Could require simple assignments. Motivation and coachability should be examined more closely. Will be 24-year-old rookie. Has a glaring bust factor.
Draft Projection
Round 1
Bottom Line
A raw, converted tight end with a basketball background, Hageman is a big, athletic, finesse three-technique with intriguing dimensions and movement skills who fits best in an aggressive, one-gap scheme where he could fire into gaps. Will probably be restricted to nickel pass-rush duty initially until the game slows down for him, but has impact potential if he ever figures it out. Is still maturing, having endured a harrowing childhood to get to where he is today, and would be best served landing in a structured environment with veteran mentorship. Classic boom-or-bust prospect.
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I've watched more film on Hageman than I have any other prospect, and I have yet to see a shred of the "laziness" that some evaluators talk about. For me, one of the key indicators (especially with linemen) is the intensity of their play late in the game. Hageman looks exactly the same in the fourth quarters I've seen as in the first. He gets the "lazy" or "lack of effort" label because he does have a tendency to play high, and the Kipers of the world like to chalk that up as laziness without doing any digging or thinking. All I see is a 6'6 guy who's new to defense and learning to stay down low. But even when he plays up high, he's so insanely strong and athletic he's STILL hard to block. You're a Tennessee guy; think John Henderson.
I honestly don't know what tape some of these analysts are watching.
I honestly don't know what tape some of these analysts are watching.
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I'm probably leaning towards Lewan as the best value.
I also like Nix, Mosely, Roby and the Lee/Beckham option at WR.
Lots of choices in this draft. And pick #15 and pick #30 are not going to be much different except choices. No one really stands out in different "tiers" after about the top 10 guys.
I also like Nix, Mosely, Roby and the Lee/Beckham option at WR.
Lots of choices in this draft. And pick #15 and pick #30 are not going to be much different except choices. No one really stands out in different "tiers" after about the top 10 guys.
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Lewan is a dirty bag telling a victim of rape to stfu. Punching little jonny in the face after a game. A lot of anger but doesn't seem to have it in games. Like said before he certainly gets a lot of help for a "LT nfl prospect". I'm fine with taking a ILB at 15 but Mosley is not the one for me he's freakin 24 already! Now a guy 6'1 237 with 144 tackles 7 sacks and 23.5 TFL faster than most wrs Ryan Shazier dude ran 4.38
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Totally agree about Lewan. I've never seen a top talent at LT get so much help.
no no no
you do not invoke the name of John Henderson unless talking about the most elite of the elite. In his prime, Henderson could control an entire side of the field, playing the run and the pass equally well. The dude was a monster.
Every time I start to get hyped about a guy, I hear something bad. I started to like Benjimen and then he sounds lazy. Started to think Denard was the guy. Then I found out he's a grabber. Now Lewan picks on Rape victims. Is there one consensus good prospect without character issues that will be there at 1.15?
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We could trade up into the third without trading down in the first with all the comp picks. Like 4(16) and 5(15) for a late third. Here's to hoping Clowney drops to like 7 or 8 and we trade up and grab him to play OLB/DE. I Imagine Dick could put a play or two together for him. I'd even give our first next year since if we got him we would be drafting 32nd.
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Odell Beckham Jr.
Is there another CB worth the 15th? Fuller?
Exum is the CB I'd love for us to get.
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I have seen waay too many mocks with us taking Brandon Cooks or Odell with 1.15....
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Mathews, Robinson and Lewan will likely be gone. I think Lewan may be off the Steelers board anyway for off field concerns.
Clowney, Mack, and Barr will probably be gone.
Do you draft a 3-4 NT or DE at 15? He better be a stud and I don't see a can't miss in this bunch.
Mosely or Shazier? I can't see a 2 down ILB at 15. He'd almost have to be a 2 down player because they aren't sitting Timmons at that salary. You're not sitting your pass rushers. You would have to sit Shamarko who will likely be the 5th DB on the field. If there was a Keuchley in the draft OK, but Mosely is nowhere close to him. Shazier is undersized.
Safety? Not after signing Mitchell and drafting Shamarko last year. If there was a stud, maybe, but Dix and Pryor look good but not great. Last year was the Safety draft. They should have went safety in Rd 1 and still took Shamarko.
Ebron? I sure hope not. I'd rather draft Benjamin and have him add a few pounds. No other TE worth the pick.
WR? I'm guessing Watkins and Evans will be gone. I can see taking a WR if there's one they love but it is so deep this year.
That leaves CB. There will likely be a top CB still available at 15. Dennard, Gilbert, Fuller and Verrett are all legit first rounders physically.
So, looking at it right now it appears the best player available will be a WR or CB. Those are also needs.
I think the first pick will be in order
Barr OLB - because pass rush is so scarce, I think they jump on him if available.
Dennard CB - because they may have to go DL in Rd 2 and the round 3 WR will be better than the round 3 CBs
Beckham WR - I think they like his potential as a blocking WR and playmaker. He would fit really well with Brown and Wheaton and brings the physicality they don't.
Kyle Fuller CB - good all around CB, I can see them taking Fuller over Beckham but I have a feeling they love Beckham
Clowney, Mack, and Barr will probably be gone.
Do you draft a 3-4 NT or DE at 15? He better be a stud and I don't see a can't miss in this bunch.
Mosely or Shazier? I can't see a 2 down ILB at 15. He'd almost have to be a 2 down player because they aren't sitting Timmons at that salary. You're not sitting your pass rushers. You would have to sit Shamarko who will likely be the 5th DB on the field. If there was a Keuchley in the draft OK, but Mosely is nowhere close to him. Shazier is undersized.
Safety? Not after signing Mitchell and drafting Shamarko last year. If there was a stud, maybe, but Dix and Pryor look good but not great. Last year was the Safety draft. They should have went safety in Rd 1 and still took Shamarko.
Ebron? I sure hope not. I'd rather draft Benjamin and have him add a few pounds. No other TE worth the pick.
WR? I'm guessing Watkins and Evans will be gone. I can see taking a WR if there's one they love but it is so deep this year.
That leaves CB. There will likely be a top CB still available at 15. Dennard, Gilbert, Fuller and Verrett are all legit first rounders physically.
So, looking at it right now it appears the best player available will be a WR or CB. Those are also needs.
I think the first pick will be in order
Barr OLB - because pass rush is so scarce, I think they jump on him if available.
Dennard CB - because they may have to go DL in Rd 2 and the round 3 WR will be better than the round 3 CBs
Beckham WR - I think they like his potential as a blocking WR and playmaker. He would fit really well with Brown and Wheaton and brings the physicality they don't.
Kyle Fuller CB - good all around CB, I can see them taking Fuller over Beckham but I have a feeling they love Beckham
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Lewan's off the field issues were out there and the Steelers still sent a shitload of people to his pro day, including Munchak. That is a lot of smoke if he is not on your board. I get the threatening of a girl and I do not like it, but at the combine, Lewan denied ever making those comments. I think the quote was something like: "I have said a lot of dumb things, but I did not state that". He denies being involved in the case dealing with the former kicker and the girl that accused him of rape. Dunno.
The latest charges are from two OSU fans that state he assaulted them. According to their statements, the two men (and two others) were walking down the street when one of them tripped and fell into a crowd. The crowd began to push and shove them. Lewan then hit one of them in the face, then struck another one, while he was on the ground, someone else kicked him and then Lewan punched him again. Only Lewan was charged. It is reported that surveillance video showed very little. Michigan's coach looked into it and said he thought it was being blown out of proportion. Lewan states he stepped in to break up the fight and did not hit anyone. Hard one to call, but all the charges against him are misdemeanors, so it should not effect his camp time. That said, dunno. Where there is smoke......but hell, they drafted Adams after he sat across from them at the combine and told them he did not use drugs (and failed the drug test at the combine). So, who knows.
The key to who is there will be in what teams draft a QB early. The more QBs taken, the better the chance a good player falls. Do I think one of the top 4 corners will be there? Yep. One should, because they are not in the top group of players and really are the beginning of the second tier.
I will say this, I just simply do not want a mediocre athlete taken with the 15th pick. I get that workout numbers and stuff is not the end game and some workout warriors fail miserably, but I also realize that a guy that lacks decent numbers is likely to fail as well. You have to be a great athlete at this stage. In stating that, I was looking at the top 20 list (from CBSSports) of the craziest athletes in college football. Clowney was #1. Lewan made the list at #4. Here is what the article stated about Lewan:
The #2 guy on the list should also garner interest with the 15th pick, it was Ra'Sheade Hageman. Here is what it stated about him:
"The 6-6, 312-pound converted tight end vertical jumped 36 inches this offseason when the Gophers tested him. More impressively, the former basketball standout (he used to play AAU ball against first-rounder Royce White) says he can still do a 360 dunk even though he's well over three bills. "But," Hageman adds, "it doesn't look as pretty as when I was 250."
Hageman was a big recruit for former coach Tim Brewster. Then-Gophers hoops coach Tubby Smith once tried to get him to come out for the basketball team, Hageman says. But the big man opted to focus solely on football, where he has blossomed into one of the Big Ten's better D-linemen.
He's certainly the most athletic. Not only does he have the 36-inch vert, but he also has bench-pressed 465 pounds and clocked an electronically timed 10-yard sprint in 1.57 seconds. For comparison sake, no DT at this year's NFL Combine jumped higher than 33 inches, and Terron Armstead, the offensive tackle who ran the blazing 4.71 40 at the combine, did a 1.64 in his 10.
Hageman said watching the combine in February has "motivated me to be even get more serious in the weight room." His goals on the field for 2013: play with better pad level, play with more urgency off the ball and not take plays off."
The Steelers visited two other players on the list. Lache Seastruck and Donte Moncrief came in at #3 and #13 respectively.
I hope that draft reports are correct and we can land Lewan in the first, Hageman in the 2nd, Moncrief in the 3rd, and Seastruck in the 4th. That would be a nice haul of elite athletes pretty damn good football players. Sure, we would have to draft a later round corner (maybe 2), but that is fine with me as long as we land some elite players. While I am not sold on Lewan, plenty of people are and I may just be wrong. I think Hageman has some of the Dontari Poe aspects about his game (raw but physically superior with a monster upside). Moncrief is not my first choice for a big WR (Bryant is), but I can see how he could fit. In watching Seastruck, I think he could be an excellent 3rd down/change of pace back. Think Chris Rainey in an NFL body.
The latest charges are from two OSU fans that state he assaulted them. According to their statements, the two men (and two others) were walking down the street when one of them tripped and fell into a crowd. The crowd began to push and shove them. Lewan then hit one of them in the face, then struck another one, while he was on the ground, someone else kicked him and then Lewan punched him again. Only Lewan was charged. It is reported that surveillance video showed very little. Michigan's coach looked into it and said he thought it was being blown out of proportion. Lewan states he stepped in to break up the fight and did not hit anyone. Hard one to call, but all the charges against him are misdemeanors, so it should not effect his camp time. That said, dunno. Where there is smoke......but hell, they drafted Adams after he sat across from them at the combine and told them he did not use drugs (and failed the drug test at the combine). So, who knows.
The key to who is there will be in what teams draft a QB early. The more QBs taken, the better the chance a good player falls. Do I think one of the top 4 corners will be there? Yep. One should, because they are not in the top group of players and really are the beginning of the second tier.
I will say this, I just simply do not want a mediocre athlete taken with the 15th pick. I get that workout numbers and stuff is not the end game and some workout warriors fail miserably, but I also realize that a guy that lacks decent numbers is likely to fail as well. You have to be a great athlete at this stage. In stating that, I was looking at the top 20 list (from CBSSports) of the craziest athletes in college football. Clowney was #1. Lewan made the list at #4. Here is what the article stated about Lewan:
The #2 guy on the list should also garner interest with the 15th pick, it was Ra'Sheade Hageman. Here is what it stated about him:
"The 6-6, 312-pound converted tight end vertical jumped 36 inches this offseason when the Gophers tested him. More impressively, the former basketball standout (he used to play AAU ball against first-rounder Royce White) says he can still do a 360 dunk even though he's well over three bills. "But," Hageman adds, "it doesn't look as pretty as when I was 250."
Hageman was a big recruit for former coach Tim Brewster. Then-Gophers hoops coach Tubby Smith once tried to get him to come out for the basketball team, Hageman says. But the big man opted to focus solely on football, where he has blossomed into one of the Big Ten's better D-linemen.
He's certainly the most athletic. Not only does he have the 36-inch vert, but he also has bench-pressed 465 pounds and clocked an electronically timed 10-yard sprint in 1.57 seconds. For comparison sake, no DT at this year's NFL Combine jumped higher than 33 inches, and Terron Armstead, the offensive tackle who ran the blazing 4.71 40 at the combine, did a 1.64 in his 10.
Hageman said watching the combine in February has "motivated me to be even get more serious in the weight room." His goals on the field for 2013: play with better pad level, play with more urgency off the ball and not take plays off."
The Steelers visited two other players on the list. Lache Seastruck and Donte Moncrief came in at #3 and #13 respectively.
I hope that draft reports are correct and we can land Lewan in the first, Hageman in the 2nd, Moncrief in the 3rd, and Seastruck in the 4th. That would be a nice haul of elite athletes pretty damn good football players. Sure, we would have to draft a later round corner (maybe 2), but that is fine with me as long as we land some elite players. While I am not sold on Lewan, plenty of people are and I may just be wrong. I think Hageman has some of the Dontari Poe aspects about his game (raw but physically superior with a monster upside). Moncrief is not my first choice for a big WR (Bryant is), but I can see how he could fit. In watching Seastruck, I think he could be an excellent 3rd down/change of pace back. Think Chris Rainey in an NFL body.
From VT? In the 1st?? CBS has him 5th or 6th round.
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I would be fine with Lewan at 15. Great value there! This guy could be a mainstay at LT for years and with Munch taking him under his wings, he learns from the best.
Hageman in the 2'nd would be a complete steal in my opinion and can't see him lasting that long, but if he's there, the Steelers will run to the fricking podium even faster than their normal sprint.
Moncrief and Seastruck would be fantastic but can't possible see us having that kind of luck. I'd be happy with the landing the first two guys.
Hageman in the 2'nd would be a complete steal in my opinion and can't see him lasting that long, but if he's there, the Steelers will run to the fricking podium even faster than their normal sprint.
Moncrief and Seastruck would be fantastic but can't possible see us having that kind of luck. I'd be happy with the landing the first two guys.
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That would be a God tier draft. I'm worried about Hageman though. His tape sucks - he lets guys turn him, gives up on rushes, jogs when the play is past him. Dude is a monster physically - you can see it every play. He should be dominating. That plus his ODD diagnosis scares me. I'm fine with him being raw - will he take to coaching?
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I don't see any of this, personally. He plays high, but I have yet to see consistent slacking or giving up. I think only Clowney and Mack have more upside in his draft.
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lewan isn't the only OL Michigan has. I'd bet they wanted to size up Lewan but they brought Munchak to look at RT Schofield. If the steelers were looking OT in RD 1 they would have visited guys like Kouandjio and maybe Morgan Moses. I think they also wanted a look at WR Gallon as a late round return man and slot WR.
Hageman scares me. He doesn't play to his ability. He's kind of like Poe but Hageman doesn't give the effort Poe gives. You watch a Minnesota game and may not even notice Hageman.
Maybe he will be a late bloomer like Poe or maybe he'll get paid and then suck like Haynesworth.
I would feel better with a DE in round 2 like DaQuan Jones. Penn State used some 3-4 last year and moved Jones between DT and DE like the Pats used Seymour. Jones is good at playing 2 gap and has good awareness. He sniffs out screens and draws. If you watch the PSU vs Minn films, it's Jones who stands out over Hageman. They let him play DE quite a bit vs Minn. Jones had a great game vs Michigan.
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If the Steelers were looking OT in round one, you think that Kouandjio and Moses are the guys that would indicate that? What about Shaun Sarrett, the Steelers offensive assistant, being the guy that put Greg Robinson through his workout at his pro day? They were at Matthews pro day and Lewans. From what I am hearing, they had dinner with Lewan. Why in the world would they entertain all three of those guys at their pro day if they are not interested in a first round OT?
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