Not saying Cowher didn't deserve it but I was surprised he got in as fast as he did.
Who is the most deserving Head coach not in the hall of Fame
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Speaking of this, guys are either Hall of Famers or they aren't. I don't like the limit and would prefer those deserving on the ballot the make it right away.
Nah… many truly deserving guys don’t get in till the vet committee because for the first couple decades the media, who are morons more often than not, are voting… later on the guys who played against them start voting… thats when the guys that were great but not statistically great get in… like If farrior, Hampton or Aaron smith ever got in, it ain’t going to be the mecia that elected them, it would be the guys who understood why those guys were absolutely fantastic by not playing for selfish statistics
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That is a completely different story. Ron Cook was talking about this on his voting method for the baseball HOF. If he doesn't vote for them the first time he'll never vote for them. He doesn't believe in guys having to wait if they're deserving. I strongly agree.
L.C. Greenwood should've been in years ago. Hines Ward should get in and will have to wait a long time because of this ridiculous receivers backlog (goes back to my point above). But as you talk about guys like Farrior, Hampton, Smith...my goodness were those defenses stacked and so much fun to watch. I think it was ESPN the magazine, that cover with that defense is maybe my favorite magazine cover ever.
There are three types of people that make the hall… the guys that get in on stats, the guys that get in on hype , and the guys who get in on technical superiority… and sometimes the media doesn’t know what is good technical play… they get pro bowls and all pros, and sacks and touchdowns, but honestly they don’t know how to grade a nose tackle or a guard or why Hines wards receiving stats aren’t the only reason he was great… hell if twenty coaches got together and jokingly told the Media Devon bush was a fantastic player, he’d probably get a bunch of all pro votes…
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This is the list of 2023 Hall of Fame semifinalists. In your opinion, who is a Hall of Famer:
- Eric Allen, cornerback
- Jared Allen, defensive end
- Willie Anderson, offensive tackle
- Ronde Barber, cornerback
- Anquan Boldin, wide receiver
- Henry Ellard, wide receiver
- Jahri Evans, offensive guard
- London Fletcher, linebacker
- Dwight Freeney, defensive end
- James Harrison, linebacker
- Rodney Harrison, safety
- Devin Hester, kick returner/wide receiver
- Torry Holt, wide receiver
- Andre Johnson, wide receiver
- Albert Lewis, cornerback
- Robert Mathis, defensive end/linebacker
- Darrelle Revis, cornerback
- Steve Smith Sr., wide receiver
- Fred Taylor, running back
- Joe Thomas, offensive tackle
- Zach Thomas, linebacker
- Hines Ward, wide receiver
- DeMarcus Ware, linebacker/defensive end
- Ricky Watters, running back
- Reggie Wayne, wide receiver
- Vince Wilfork, defensive tackle
- Patrick Willis, linebacker
- Darren Woodson, safety
It's tough. All great players. But on that list look for a player that it would be difficult to find a comparison to from another era.
The only one you can say that about would be Hines Ward. He was just different the way he played. So of that list the only one I'd put in there would be him.
In my opinion it's LC Greenwood.
Well lets start by looking at tge cornerbacks on that list… Revis will get in despite only having 29 picks because he was universally known as the best shut down corner in the game for about six years. He has an abnormally high targets to passes defensed too…
Rhonde Barber will get in eventually… he was kind of the Hines ward of cornerbacks… he was tge best cover corner on that Tampa D so he had fewer targets, but had 47 picks… Dieon Sanders had 53… though in fewer targets, but he was also one of the great Blitzing and run defense corners of all time… things the Media don’t really focus on for corners… he holds a bunch of records in stuff like most consecutive games played at corner, but nothing flashy that the media would focus on… the issue is that being a corner who was all around great at football isn’t as good for getting in the hall as being a flashy ******* like sanders who was only really great at the coverage side of the position…
Albert lewis mostly played when I was a kid and he was off my radar, but go read tge case that dude made to get him included in this group and you will agree he definitely deserves a look at least… Jerry Rice once called him the best corner he ever faced…
Eric Allen was undoubtedly one of the great cover corners of the 90’s, but compared to a guy like Barber he was extremely one dimensional, moreover he never played in a championship game… so I am not sure he gets in at least during the media portion of the voting
Not one of these players doesn’t deserve to be discussed as a potential hall of famer… not all will get in, but serious cases can be made for them
Rhonde Barber will get in eventually… he was kind of the Hines ward of cornerbacks… he was tge best cover corner on that Tampa D so he had fewer targets, but had 47 picks… Dieon Sanders had 53… though in fewer targets, but he was also one of the great Blitzing and run defense corners of all time… things the Media don’t really focus on for corners… he holds a bunch of records in stuff like most consecutive games played at corner, but nothing flashy that the media would focus on… the issue is that being a corner who was all around great at football isn’t as good for getting in the hall as being a flashy ******* like sanders who was only really great at the coverage side of the position…
Albert lewis mostly played when I was a kid and he was off my radar, but go read tge case that dude made to get him included in this group and you will agree he definitely deserves a look at least… Jerry Rice once called him the best corner he ever faced…
Eric Allen was undoubtedly one of the great cover corners of the 90’s, but compared to a guy like Barber he was extremely one dimensional, moreover he never played in a championship game… so I am not sure he gets in at least during the media portion of the voting
Not one of these players doesn’t deserve to be discussed as a potential hall of famer… not all will get in, but serious cases can be made for them
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Chuck Knox first 5 years as a coach with the LA Rams he was 54-15...He was FIRED after his 5th season in which he went 10-4...
He'd run into Dallas or the Vikings & lose in the playoffs. So the Rams fired him even though he averaged 11-3 for 5 years...
He'd run into Dallas or the Vikings & lose in the playoffs. So the Rams fired him even though he averaged 11-3 for 5 years...
I mean Im a little biased against that guy because when I was younger and growing into steelers fandom, Random fans too often confused Knox with Noll…
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- Willie Anderson, offensive tackle - borderline, leaning toward no
- Jahri Evans, offensive guard - yes
- Joe Thomas, offensive tackle - yes, the best LT during his era
- Fred Taylor, running back - no
- Ricky Watters, running back - no
- Anquan Boldin, wide receiver - borderline
- Henry Ellard, wide receiver - no
- Devin Hester, kick returner/wide receiver - borderline, best ever returner, but is scoring 20touchdowns on returns HOF worthy?
- Torry Holt, wide receiver - yes
- Andre Johnson, wide receiver - no
- Steve Smith Sr., wide receiver - yes
- Hines Ward, wide receiver - yes
- Reggie Wayne, wide receiver - yes
- Jared Allen, defensive end - yes
- Dwight Freeney, defensive end - no
- Robert Mathis, defensive end/linebacker - no
- Vince Wilfork, defensive tackle - no
- London Fletcher, linebacker - lol, no
- Zach Thomas, linebacker - yes
- Patrick Willis, linebacker - yes, too bad injuries shortened his career
- James Harrison, linebacker - yes
- DeMarcus Ware, linebacker/defensive end - yes
- Eric Allen, cornerback - no
- Ronde Barber, cornerback - yes, very important piece of a very good defense
- Rodney Harrison, safety - lol, no
- Albert Lewis, cornerback - no
- Darrelle Revis, cornerback - yes, the premiere player of his era
- Darren Woodson, safety - no
For the most part I concur…. And Hester perplexes me too… by far the best long term returner maybe ever… but does the best at a very limited skillset take precedence over someone great at a larger and more important job?
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Hester ranks 8th all-time in punt return average but is outside of the top 50 in kick return average. It simply becomes does 20 career touchdowns (14 on punt returns, which is why you put him in) over 11 seasons enough to be a Hall of Famer? Given some of the guys and long-term production I said no to making it, I think I'd keep Hester out.
Its like the Barber/ Allen debate at Cb… Allen was great as a traditional coverage corner, Barber was a really good coverage corner, but also great in the run stopping game and blitzing… so should Allen get in because he was better as a pure coverage role, or do you look at the complete package in Barber
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in this scenerio I would just go Hines
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Or put both in.
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Just my opinion. Thier should definitely be a cap on how many get in each year. There should not be a minimum. If 2 people deserve to get in then that is it.
Smith was a real good receiver. But did nothing to really be remembered by.
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Smith had a special trait with his speed and was productive for being undersized. He had 8 1,000-yard receiving years and lead the NFL once in receptions, yards, and TDs. 81 TDs over his career and two first-team All Pros. What puts him over the top is playoff performances.
Smith has the fifth best playoff performance ever with 404 receiving yards in the 2003 postseason. He only ranks 29th in postseason receptions, but 17th in yards (over 1,000), and tied for 10th in TDs. Nine touchdowns in 11 games and scored at least one touchdown in all five of his playoff appearances.
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Keep in mind he won the first 6 years consecutively his division (might have been making the play-off).
Salute the nation
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I dealt with that as well. Made me laugh at times…….
JAMES HARRISON…………. In
Salute the nation
The issue is that technical issue I spoke of earlier… going off pure stats, Smith is an average HOF player and ward is extremely Borderline … but with context Wards resume is actually better
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No one ever talks about Ward's playoff stats, which are very good.
Including a super bowl MVP… yeah he was a gamer… and Bettis is probably in the Hall of Fame partially because of him… also his first what, six seasons he was playing in a run first offense with a ton of scrub QBs… even Bens first two seasons with him and also Tomlin’s first year here we were run first… so he didn’t get into a wide open offense till he played a decade in the league… while other guys were already taking advantage of the liberal passing rules for ages by then
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