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worlids rejects long term offer

He's no where near worth top 10 money. I have stated this before. He has half a good season. The rest of his career, he has sucked. He is now injured and I doubt he does anything in mini-camp. I believe we are on the hook for his entire $9+ million this year but if we could cut him and reduce that by 50%, I'd do it. He hasn't proven anything to me and is not worth the money or the risk. I'd rather take the risk we did with Pouncey and making him the highest paid center. Worilds can go pound sand.
 
He's no where near worth top 10 money. I have stated this before. He has half a good season. The rest of his career, he has sucked. He is now injured and I doubt he does anything in mini-camp. I believe we are on the hook for his entire $9+ million this year but if we could cut him and reduce that by 50%, I'd do it. He hasn't proven anything to me and is not worth the money or the risk. I'd rather take the risk we did with Pouncey and making him the highest paid center. Worilds can go pound sand.

The entire $9.7 Million are guaranteed. There is a reason he signed the tag before the ink dried. Like was mentioned before, they are paying him almost $10M for half a year production last year. He may play half a year this year and get tagged again. That's a lot of money for 2 half years.
 
let's wait and see how he does and if somebody step up before saying we will tag him again next year
 
let's wait and see how he does and if somebody step up before saying we will tag him again next year

Heard the same thing with Max Starks.

The revisionist history around this organization is making my stomach hurl. This Worilds news puts me is a pisser mood. I saw it coming a mile away the minute they tagged him. I said from day one the tag did nothing but over-inflate his value above what the Steelers were willing to pay. Now we're stuck with another young draft choice who will either get overpaid or leave. Neither option is a good outcome.
 
They are paying for what is likely to continue based on what they saw last year. If he continues at that level he will earn his money this year or at least most of it. The reason for the tag means they can keep him for at least a year if he does well, and have the ability to negotiate a deal later. If he is to expensive they then have the option to see what they have in this years crop and uncle jarvis and consider a high pick on the next outside linebacker. The beauty of it is that if they over pay for him this year they are not on the hook next year and do not carry any dead money forward. Just because they offer a contract does not mean it will be signed or that the player in question will not over value himself. If he wants to hold the team hostage he will be a free agent and no longer a problem for Pittsburgh.
 
They are paying for what is likely to continue based on what they saw last year. If he continues at that level he will earn his money this year or at least most of it. The reason for the tag means they can keep him for at least a year if he does well, and have the ability to negotiate a deal later. If he is to expensive they then have the option to see what they have in this years crop and uncle jarvis and consider a high pick on the next outside linebacker. The beauty of it is that if they over pay for him this year they are not on the hook next year and do not carry any dead money forward. Just because they offer a contract does not mean it will be signed or that the player in question will not over value himself. If he wants to hold the team hostage he will be a free agent and no longer a problem for Pittsburgh.

this .. he probably wanted more than 20 milion guaranteed so let play the wait and see for the same money
 
Let's pick the category everyone here likes best:

1. Worilds underperforms and helps contribute to an underachieving season (can't get to the QB). Worilds is DRASTICALLY overpaid, wasting cap space that could have been rolled over into any future season. Steelers let him walk thus validating Worilds as a poor draft choice and yet another wasted opportunity to make the team younger. The team has to use another resource to invest in that position (after Woodley and Worilds in the Tomlin era).

2. Worilds overperforms and helps contribute to an overachieving season. The team franchise tags him. The resultant contract is top-10 at his position, possibly $25-30 million in guarantees ON TOP of the almost $10 million guaranteed him now. The Steelers have some negotiating power but are now dealing with a legit top-10 talent and pretty much will have to pay top dollar around the franchise tag or risk losing a real asset.

3. Worilds is average. He is overpaid for THIS season already. We are now in a rock-and-hard spot. Do we franchise tag him AGAIN ($12 million), over-inflate what we WANT to pay him AGAIN and put ourselves in a bad spot at the negotiating table. With little to no depth at the position, there really isn't a win-win anywhere.

Those are your three choices Steelers Nation and the only three available to the Steelers once they decide to transition tag him in spring and so quick shed themselves of Woodley. I'm sorry if I think Colbert and Company brought on a situation that has very few good choices for the Steelers moving forward, in fact all of them are pretty poor in my opinion.
 
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if he stay healthy i aspect the same production of this season , in the same time i will see what moats and carter (or any possible surprise) bring to the table..then if he still wants to be payd too much i will weight the option to let him walk (depends on other players around or ours that stepped up ) ,
 
I see it hard for worilds to duplicate what he did the last half season. Its not a knock on him, but teams can double team him because we have no threat on the other side. I think worilds is overpaid, but do not think they had much of a choice. Unless JJ makes a massive leap it will be tough going for worilds.
 
Let's pick the category everyone here likes best:

1. Worilds underperforms and helps contribute to an underachieving season (can't get to the QB). Worilds is DRASTICALLY overpaid, wasting cap space that could have been rolled over into any future season. Steelers let him walk thus validating Worilds as a poor draft choice and yet another wasted opportunity to make the team younger. The team has to use another resource to invest in that position (after Woodley and Worilds in the Tomlin era).

2. Worilds overperforms and helps contribute to an overachieving season. The team franchise tags him. The resultant contract is top-10 at his position, possibly $25-30 million in guarantees ON TOP of the almost $10 million guaranteed him now. The Steelers have some negotiating power but are now dealing with a legit top-10 talent and pretty much will have to pay top dollar around the franchise tag or risk losing a real asset.

3. Worilds is average. He is overpaid for THIS season already. We are now in a rock-and-hard spot. Do we franchise tag him AGAIN ($12 million), over-inflate what we WANT to pay him AGAIN and put ourselves in a bad spot at the negotiating table. With little to no depth at the position, there really isn't a win-win anywhere.

Those are your three choices Steelers Nation and the only three available to the Steelers once they decide to transition tag him in spring and so quick shed themselves of Woodley. I'm sorry if I think Colbert and Company brought on a situation that has very few good choices for the Steelers moving forward, in fact all of them are pretty poor in my opinion.

How would you have dealt with Worilds?
 
Let's pick the category everyone here likes best:

1. Worilds underperforms and helps contribute to an underachieving season (can't get to the QB). Worilds is DRASTICALLY overpaid, wasting cap space that could have been rolled over into any future season. Steelers let him walk thus validating Worilds as a poor draft choice and yet another wasted opportunity to make the team younger. The team has to use another resource to invest in that position (after Woodley and Worilds in the Tomlin era).

2. Worilds overperforms and helps contribute to an overachieving season. The team franchise tags him. The resultant contract is top-10 at his position, possibly $25-30 million in guarantees ON TOP of the almost $10 million guaranteed him now. The Steelers have some negotiating power but are now dealing with a legit top-10 talent and pretty much will have to pay top dollar around the franchise tag or risk losing a real asset.

3. Worilds is average. He is overpaid for THIS season already. We are now in a rock-and-hard spot. Do we franchise tag him AGAIN ($12 million), over-inflate what we WANT to pay him AGAIN and put ourselves in a bad spot at the negotiating table. With little to no depth at the position, there really isn't a win-win anywhere.

Those are your three choices Steelers Nation and the only three available to the Steelers once they decide to transition tag him in spring and so quick shed themselves of Woodley. I'm sorry if I think Colbert and Company brought on a situation that has very few good choices for the Steelers moving forward, in fact all of them are pretty poor in my opinion.

This is what i was getting at in the Jarvis thread. When players don't develop until their last year under contract, you are in a tough spot, especially if that guy is a 1st rounder because you already paid him significant money for little return.

Just imagine of Worilds 2013 season happened 2 years ago. Last year Worilds was simply good but nothing special. Still for the first time he showed maybe he will become something. If that happened 2 years ago, then they likely would have signed him long term and felt comfortable with him starting opposite Woodley.

That means they probably wouldn't have drafted Jarvis last year and right now they would have big money Woodley and reasonably priced Worilds. They probably would have drafted pass rushers in later rounds as backups.

WHat they have right now is two question marks at OLB. Worilds has proven to me that he can be Clark Haggans. I'm concerned that Clark Haggans is Jarvis's ceiling. It is a pretty bad situation if you invest a 1st round pick and a franchise tag and get 2 Clark Haggans level pass rushers.


Contrast this with what happened at WR. They drafted Wallace and Brown. By year 2, the steelers knew all they needed to know about both players and look at how that helped them make good decisions. They wrapped Brown up quickly and now he's a bargain. They also knew Wallace really was a 1 trick pony and they correctly let him walk instead of matching big money to keep him.

If Brown has not developed quickly, then the Steelers probably would have been forced to keep Wallace at that crazy contract Miami gave him.

The point is, you need to know what you have in these players by their 3rd year at the latest. If a guy stinks, it's not the end of the world so long as you know immediately so you can move on.


One of the things i'm excited about is the steelers seem to have realized this and they are trying to draft more immediate impact players instead of project players.

WHen the Steelers were strongest, young guys like Porter did have to wait to play because there was a strong starter in front of them. That's a big difference from now when guys are sitting or playing early and stinking it up because they are not ready to play.

Projects are for later rounds, not for top picks.
 
You are likely headed for a career in the NFL front office of some team if you can pick 32 players in every draft that will not be some type of project and take time to develop. It is very tough to do so once you get out of the top 5 picks as even they need some development. Some take longer than others. As one drops down the draft board the talent level keeps decreasing and players have some holes in their game thus they are projects. Many players have issues in the transition from college to pro level and just don't make the jump.

In many of the years we have taken projects we have picked very late in the draft order because we were a playoff team. The last two years we have picked in the middle and the prospects are better, we are likely to be able to do so again while we are rebuilding.
 
When you pay players based on what you have on your team or what available in the free agent market you set yourself back and hurt yourself going forward. I don't care who you have you don't pay the Jason worilds of the world big money or you become the Oakland raiders

Hammer meet nail !!! Great post and logic. Now, I'm hoping the FO reads this :)


Salute the nation
 
I'd be more pissed with a 9 millions per year, 5 years contract than with the franchise tag this year. At least the F.O. has one year to see if the previous Worilds half season was a fluke
 
Those are your three choices Steelers Nation and the only three available to the Steelers once they decide to transition tag him in spring and so quick shed themselves of Woodley. I'm sorry if I think Colbert and Company brought on a situation that has very few good choices for the Steelers moving forward, in fact all of them are pretty poor in my opinion.
How would you have dealt with Worilds?
I think they made the best decision under the circumstances. Woodley had to go and Worilds improved after moving to the other side. The team is gambling that he will keep it up with the switch. I'm good with it.
 
Was a mistake to trans tag him in the 1st place, probably would've jumped on whatever long term deal he just rejected if that was his first offer. Two wrongs may make a right tho if this means no overinflated deal for Worilds... Please don't franchise him next year, our cap next year is already a mess.
 
First, I think they should have made Worilds an offer LAST off-season, just to see what they were dealing with. After 3 years, we should have know what we have and they have greater access to Woodley's health to know what was coming up in 2013 (at least more than me).

I have said before the off-season started, I would have offered Worilds a 6-year, $43 million contract with $18 million in the first two seasons guaranteed. If he could get a lot more than that on the open market, good for him. The 6-years was non-negotiable, the guarantees (possibly more for injury) could be open to negotiations.

I would have also told Worilds I am not making any decision on Woodley until you sign the contract. If he signs, I would NOT have released Woodley until June 1st and possibly later and possibly not at all this off-season. I have been a proponent of keeping both Worilds and Woodley on the roster this season and think we could have made it work on the cap.
 
You are likely headed for a career in the NFL front office of some team if you can pick 32 players in every draft that will not be some type of project and take time to develop. It is very tough to do so once you get out of the top 5 picks as even they need some development. Some take longer than others. As one drops down the draft board the talent level keeps decreasing and players have some holes in their game thus they are projects. Many players have issues in the transition from college to pro level and just don't make the jump.

In many of the years we have taken projects we have picked very late in the draft order because we were a playoff team. The last two years we have picked in the middle and the prospects are better, we are likely to be able to do so again while we are rebuilding.

I'm not talking about guys having a bad rookie year. Everybody has a learning curve. I'm talking about high draft picks who are taking 3 or 4 years to become dependable starters.

Ziggy Hood is a good example. His college game was completely opposite of a 3-4 DE. He essentially had to be taught from scratch. That might be worth it if he was a special athlete like JJ Watt, but he wasn't. What you end up with is a lot of time and effort to get a guy who played about as well as guys the Steelers got off the scrap heap like McLendon and Al Woods.

Worse yet, they held Heyward back because they wanted to give Ziggy reps ahead of him. Reps he had not earned.
 
First, I think they should have made Worilds an offer LAST off-season, just to see what they were dealing with. After 3 years, we should have know what we have and they have greater access to Woodley's health to know what was coming up in 2013 (at least more than me).

I have said before the off-season started, I would have offered Worilds a 6-year, $43 million contract with $18 million in the first two seasons guaranteed. If he could get a lot more than that on the open market, good for him. The 6-years was non-negotiable, the guarantees (possibly more for injury) could be open to negotiations.

I would have also told Worilds I am not making any decision on Woodley until you sign the contract. If he signs, I would NOT have released Woodley until June 1st and possibly later and possibly not at all this off-season. I have been a proponent of keeping both Worilds and Woodley on the roster this season and think we could have made it work on the cap.

probably was the right choice to offer him a contract last off-season as you say, but you are guaranteeing a guy that hasn't shown much and tends to be injured 18 millions. That's a lot and No One could imagine he would break out like he did last year, in fact he looked like he had one foot out of the organization already when the team drafted Jarvis Jones and we already had Woodley on the team inked for a couple more years (of course this was expecting him to come back at full strength for the season)
 
First, I think they should have made Worilds an offer LAST off-season, just to see what they were dealing with. After 3 years, we should have know what we have and they have greater access to Woodley's health to know what was coming up in 2013 (at least more than me).

I have said before the off-season started, I would have offered Worilds a 6-year, $43 million contract with $18 million in the first two seasons guaranteed. If he could get a lot more than that on the open market, good for him. The 6-years was non-negotiable, the guarantees (possibly more for injury) could be open to negotiations.

I would have also told Worilds I am not making any decision on Woodley until you sign the contract. If he signs, I would NOT have released Woodley until June 1st and possibly later and possibly not at all this off-season. I have been a proponent of keeping both Worilds and Woodley on the roster this season and think we could have made it work on the cap.

No offense, but i'm skeptical of your logic. You would have offered a guy who had by then proved nothing and wasn't starting a long term deal at the end of last season? That really seems like hindsight talking, especially since at the end of last season Worilds was competing for the ROLB spot. Had Worilds shown any spark there Jones likely would never have been drafted. There's no way they would ever consider offering 2012 Worilds money.

Also, all of the money you're complaining about giving to Worilds you would have given to Woodley anyway by keeping him on the roster along with Worilds. Keeping both for the same position was far too rich for their blood.

That's the problem with Worilds, and the Steelers system of sitting guys behind proven starters indefinitely - when they bloom late, you have a problem. Late blooming is why Keenan Lewis is a Saint.
 
Worilds wasn't anything like Lewis. Worilds played a ton because Woodley has been hurt since game 9 of the 2011 season. Worilds started 21 games and played in 57 games. To put that in perspective Woodley played in 60 games and started 47 in his first 4 years. The difference is that Worilds was hurt EVERY SINGLE YEAR so he couldn't take total advantage of Woodley being hurt. So Worilds was behind a proven starter but one that couldn't stay healthy. So he had plenty of chances to play well and show people what he could do.

Also what is the answer for late bloomers in other teams systems? Do they play them regardless of how bad they suck? Also doesn't "late bloomer" mean they need MORE time to develop? Does playing time have anything to do with it? Or are they going to bloom late regardless of playing time?
 
probably was the right choice to offer him a contract last off-season as you say, but you are guaranteeing a guy that hasn't shown much and tends to be injured 18 millions. That's a lot and No One could imagine he would break out like he did last year, in fact he looked like he had one foot out of the organization already when the team drafted Jarvis Jones and we already had Woodley on the team inked for a couple more years (of course this was expecting him to come back at full strength for the season)

I think Del was saying he would have signed Worilds for peanuts last offseason, but since we didn't, he would've offered the 6-yr deal.
 
I think Del was saying he would have signed Worilds for peanuts last offseason, but since we didn't, he would've offered the 6-yr deal.

oh got it, thanks.
I think they offered him something in that ballpark actually and his answer was Try Again
 
Here's the issue.

Cutting Woodley did nothing for our cap. You save this year, but you eat $8.8 million next year. The real savings on Woodley vs. the cap really doesn't happen until 2016. If I keep him one more year, my dead money on Woodley get's pushed out into 2016.

Worilds cap number under MY plan is $3 million, not $9.75 million.

Again, if Worilds is your starter for just THREE seasons (2014-2016), and really does anyone here NOT think that is going to happen now, I am spending LESS money keeping Woodley for 2014 ($8 million) + Worilds for his first three seasons ($23 million). That's getting 4 total seasons of OLB availability for $31 million.

The Steelers are EASILY heading in that direction with just Worilds now between 2014-2016. EASY. They are already $9.75 million there.

My Cap numbers:

Keep Woodley in 2014, cut him in 2015: $13.59 - $5.59 - $2.99

Keep Worilds 2014-2016, cut him in 2017: $3.00 - $4.20 - $8.20 - $3.20 - $4.40

Steelers Cap numbers:

Woodley : $5.59 - $8.58

Worilds (keep Worilds 2014-2017, cut him in 2018): $9.75 - $3.60 - $9.60 - $5.80 - $1.80 - $1.80
(project to a 5-year, $45 million w/ $13 million SB under the tag next year).

Really explain to me the difference in cap dollars and their effect on us long term?
 
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