• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Steelers select Dri Archer in Round 3

Status
Not open for further replies.
Pro or Con, lets let the man play. He will be about in the middle of what people expect around here. Not as good as some here might think, but also not as bad as others say.


Salute the nation
 
106 pages? Sorry, just had to jump in and note this thread has become ridiculous.

Carry on.
 
Wingman said:
From some of the choices that have been made some of the guys may know who would be better than the steeler staff, they just have not gotten the chance to do it for the team or any other for that matter. Just because someone has not done something before does not mean they could not be good at. We have had drafts that did not have one player remain on the team and we are not sitting here with a team loaded with established talent that draft picks just could not beat. After all most of us are probably not in the health care business so how could we possibly know what would be better for us than obama care, after all they have folks getting paid to determine what is best for us.

The whole paid to do something vs someones passion about something does not hold up in every case. A real life example is the personal computer. IBM came up with it and had an operating system that did not work well. A couple of high school kids got to fooling with it and went on to become giants in the industry, when they started they were just a couple of guys.
Click to expand...

You missed my point entirely. Using your IBM analogy, let's say a young Bill Gates and crew only had a monitor and a keyboard and touted that they understood the inter workings of the system without having all of the information in their hands. That what you have with these bulletin board wannabes. Youtube and a few blogs and all of a sudden they are more competent than NFL scouts with 30 years of experience and every piece of data possible at their fingertips.
 
I think your discussion is missing the point. I am not talking absolutes. My analogy is valid for these reasons, engineers that designed and built the hardware and interfaces were not able to get it to perform to their expectations. A couple of kids at a high school who were not getting paid but were passionate about their work were able to do what the professionals could not. In our teams recent past an unknown player that was over looked by the team was recommended by an individual in the steelers family and they picked him up, his name was Willie Parker. The guy that recommended him did not have all the information that is typically produced for the combine prospects, but watched him play. He was not a professional scout. Just a talented guy who's last name is Rooney and saw a player he thought they should take. My point was some of the more involved guys on here ( there are only a few) that do all the research and watch lots of games could probably do a very good job in the scouting departments and could likely put together a better selection on some occasions than our team did. I am not saying every time.
 
Wingman said:
I think your discussion is missing the point. I am not talking absolutes. My analogy is valid for these reasons, engineers that designed and built the hardware and interfaces were not able to get it to perform to their expectations. A couple of kids at a high school who were not getting paid but were passionate about their work were able to do what the professionals could not. In our teams recent past an unknown player that was over looked by the team was recommended by an individual in the steelers family and they picked him up, his name was Willie Parker. The guy that recommended him did not have all the information that is typically produced for the combine prospects, but watched him play. He was not a professional scout. Just a talented guy who's last name is Rooney and saw a player he thought they should take. My point was some of the more involved guys on here ( there are only a few) that do all the research and watch lots of games could probably do a very good job in the scouting departments and could likely put together a better selection on some occasions than our team did. I am not saying every time.
Click to expand...

I think this is a fair assessment.
 
Wingman said:
My point was some of the more involved guys on here ( there are only a few) that do all the research and watch lots of games could probably do a very good job in the scouting departments and could likely put together a better selection on some occasions than our team did. I am not saying every time.
Click to expand...

And what makes you say that? What evidence do you have that any of them could put together a better draft than the professionals? Here is the other intangable that most dont think about...drafting rookies/aquiring free agent personnel to fit packages and systems both short term and long term and what they're contracts will look like both initially and long term bumped against projected cap space. There is quite a lot of planning that is involved here that no one outside of the organization will know about.
 
Badcat said:
And what makes you say that? What evidence do you have that any of them could put together a better draft than the professionals? Here is the other intangable that most dont think about...drafting rookies/aquiring free agent personnel to fit packages and systems both short term and long term and what they're contracts will look like both initially and long term bumped against projected cap space. There is quite a lot of planning that is involved here that no one outside of the organization will know about.
Click to expand...

Isn't capology a pretty well-understood subject? I mean, there's some information about the money side of things that takes longer to trickle down to the public, but you can't tell me that there are only 32 guys (at most) in the whole world who can possibly evaluate college talent AND work up a spreadsheet to project a budget for 5-6 years.
 
So are we undervaluing the interview process. Teams get to talk these players.
 
Not sure of under/over value, but the process needs to happen regardless. The Scouting / drafting department has missed recently. They have also "hit" recently too. Everyone knows that drafting is not an exact science. Hell, did DAN ROONEY make the greatest draft ever, solely on scouting / interview reports? No, even though his is smaller, I think he used his GUT instinks a little too. Human error / success is involved, so even the most educated determined person can fail, as opposed to the less advantaged person succeeding. Obviously, the odds are in the advantaged person's favor.




Salute the nation
 
antdrewjosh said:
So are we undervaluing the interview process. Teams get to talk these players.
Click to expand...

When I suggested that the Steelers should have interviewed Mendy a few years ago you said that it didn't matter. So are you now changing your view?
 
JupiterBnG said:
Isn't capology a pretty well-understood subject? I mean, there's some information about the money side of things that takes longer to trickle down to the public, but you can't tell me that there are only 32 guys (at most) in the whole world who can possibly evaluate college talent AND work up a spreadsheet to project a budget for 5-6 years.
Click to expand...

oh goodness. must we bring this ************ back up again?
 
Vader said:
When I suggested that the Steelers should have interviewed Mendy a few years ago you said that it didn't matter. So are you now changing your view?
Click to expand...

I believe given the hindsight and the issues we had with Spinthenfall, indeed an interview might have been helpful. It's my understanding a- the Steelers didn't think there was a chance in hell he'd be there, and b- they only get so many of those interviews. If those things are both true, I can see why they didn't.

Joe
 
Vader said:
When I suggested that the Steelers should have interviewed Mendy a few years ago you said that it didn't matter. So are you now changing your view?
Click to expand...


I remember that. I remember saying that in that case. I dont think i said its not needed all together. The Steelers saw Mendy as too much value to pass up.

Totally not what these guys are referring to now or why i asked the question. Teams have way more info then we as layman are privy too. Including interviews.
 
antdrewjosh said:
I remember that. I remember saying that in that case. I dont think i said its not needed all together. The Steelers saw Mendy as too much value to pass up.

Totally not what these guys are referring to now or why i asked the question. Teams have way more info then we as layman are privy too. Including interviews.
Click to expand...

So it's good to interview people when it is needed but not needed when it isn't needed. Thanks for clarifying that. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either they are important or they aren't. If you can make the comment that interviewing Mendy wasn't needed then please show me an argument for ever having an interview. See, you can't know what you don't know.

Also to those that would make the point that Mendy fell to them so they were shocked he was there: Mendy didn't fall as far as DeCastro. He was projected to go much higher and fell. But somehow they had the ability to interview him. Best I remember Mendy was never a top 10 mock pick. He was almost always outside the top 16 picks.
 
Wingman said:
I think your discussion is missing the point. I am not talking absolutes. My analogy is valid for these reasons, engineers that designed and built the hardware and interfaces were not able to get it to perform to their expectations. A couple of kids at a high school who were not getting paid but were passionate about their work were able to do what the professionals could not. In our teams recent past an unknown player that was over looked by the team was recommended by an individual in the steelers family and they picked him up, his name was Willie Parker. The guy that recommended him did not have all the information that is typically produced for the combine prospects, but watched him play. He was not a professional scout. Just a talented guy who's last name is Rooney and saw a player he thought they should take. My point was some of the more involved guys on here ( there are only a few) that do all the research and watch lots of games could probably do a very good job in the scouting departments and could likely put together a better selection on some occasions than our team did. I am not saying every time.
Click to expand...

I get your point, but I'm sure people were in awe of Kevin Colbert's involvement in his craft and knowledge of the game/college players when he was coming up too. Just because TMC is thorough and obsessed doesn't necessarily mean he'd do a better job.
 
Vader said:
So it's good to interview people when it is needed but not needed when it isn't needed. Thanks for clarifying that. Sorry but you can't have it both ways. Either they are important or they aren't. If you can make the comment that interviewing Mendy wasn't needed then please show me an argument for ever having an interview. See, you can't know what you don't know.

Also to those that would make the point that Mendy fell to them so they were shocked he was there: Mendy didn't fall as far as DeCastro. He was projected to go much higher and fell. But somehow they had the ability to interview him. Best I remember Mendy was never a top 10 mock pick. He was almost always outside the top 16 picks.
Click to expand...

Obviously value played a part in that pick. If Mack falls should the steelers not take him because they didnt interview him? Of course having all the info you can is ideal but that isnt always going to be the case. Maybe sometimes players arent picked because of interviews we dont know.
 
antdrewjosh said:
Obviously value played a part in that pick. If Mack falls should the steelers not take him because they didnt interview him? Of course having all the info you can is ideal but that isnt always going to be the case. Maybe sometimes players arent picked because of interviews we dont know.
Click to expand...

So interviews are important.. maybe... but we don't really know... but you felt as if it was "undervalued". Again sounds convoluted to me.
 
At that time, if you would have interviewed Mendy and Chris Johnson, Mendy would have gone before him in the draft on character alone. Too bad we didn't go with CJ instead.
 
I mentioned them because its another source of information we as fans dont have. Also i wasnt even referring to just the 15 minute interview at the combine. Players also visit teams. Im sure more interviewing goes on. Once again if the value trumps everything else teams may take it. If its close maybe they rely on the inteviews too. We as fans dont get to talk to anyone so we cant rely on that. That was my point. So we fans get upset about Player A being chosen over Player B maybe it was something in the interview process that caused player A to be chosen.
 
I don't give a **** how much you think you know.

It's not a debating society - it's a godammed Steelers board!

Hua!
 
Badcat said:
You missed my point entirely. Using your IBM analogy, let's say a young Bill Gates and crew only had a monitor and a keyboard and touted that they understood the inter workings of the system without having all of the information in their hands. That what you have with these bulletin board wannabes. Youtube and a few blogs and all of a sudden they are more competent than NFL scouts with 30 years of experience and every piece of data possible at their fingertips.
Click to expand...

I work for a 100 plus year old company. The amount of ignorance from the top down is mind blowing. I'm not saying that is the case for our Steelers, but just because someone has a fancy title and some experience means zero in my book. Prove your worth year in and year out, that is what impresses me. Lately the Steelers have not impressed me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top