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Can a defensive player win the Heisman Again? Coolie Pimps Ed Oliver

Drink IRON City said:
Coach who??????? When will the actual bet take effect???


Salute the nation
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After the draft is over. If Oliver goes outside the top ten overall in the 2019 draft, I win. If he goes in the top 10 over all in 2019, Coolie wins. The bet is a month off from posting.
 
Coach said:
Matt Miller is a notable prognosticator? Since when?

I question Ed Oliver's height ( under 6'3 " tall ) , arm length ( less than 34" ), weight ( less than 295 pounds ), lack of competition ( fact ) , and production as a pass rusher ( fact ).

In four games played this season he has zero sacks. I'm not sure how he would hold up vs the run in the NFL either as he's going to be giving up a lot of weight vs NFL guards. I plan to watch him in a full game and do a report. I have seen some video clips, he gets into the backfield well, but falls into some easy sacks like say Jason Gildon used to.

I took a look at the DL this year, there are 2 very good DT prospects in Gray - Michigan, and Davis - Alabama, which also offer versatility as 5 technique DL players. Oliver does not project as a DL 5 technique player. Also there are quite a few good edge rushers in Bosa - OSU, Ferrnell - Clemson, and Jackson - Miami. The common theme is almost all of these players are doing it vs top competition.

The NFL is starving for pass rusher, cover corners, and QB's. We don’t even know which underclassmen are going to come out.

I think I will win, but if by chance Coolie is right, well I had a lot of fun with the thread along the way.
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The American Conference may not have the Top end teams like Bama and Ohio State, but the balance of their league matches up against the others in the Power 5 conferences. In the last few years, UH has victories over Florida State, Oklahoma and Louisville.

Oliver had two sacks of Mayfield and Jackson, and the game against OU was his first ever college game. He gets plenty of pressure for a young kid and as I have stated his 39.5 TFLs in two seasons is the best ever.

Oh and I know the article you read that questioned his size and pass rush ability...I've read it also....way before you started having an opinion on Oliver.
 
CoolieMan said:
The American Conference may not have the Top end teams like Bama and Ohio State, but the balance of their league matches up against the others in the Power 5 conferences. In the last few years, UH has victories over Florida State, Oklahoma and Louisville.

Oliver had two sacks of Mayfield and Jackson, and the game against OU was his first ever college game. He gets plenty of pressure for a young kid and as I have stated his 39.5 TFLs in two seasons is the best ever.

Oh and I know the article you read that questioned his size and pass rush ability...I've read it also....way before you started having an opinion on Oliver.
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Right, he beats up on centers and guards that won't draw breath in an NFL camp. Every decent player is double teamed, don’t use that as an excuse. Not that you are, but I suspect you might.

As I pointed out he gets plenty of rushing the passer opportunities, because his team is often way up on points. Oliver’s tackles for losses are tending down this year as well. Will he still have 0 sacks in five games played in 2018? Stay tuned! Do you really think he'll measure up 6'3" tall??? His arms don't look very big by DT standards. And his chances of winning the Heisman, as I told you are about zero.

Our very own Hargrave had far more sacks vs weaker opposition. Doesn't make him a pass rusher in the NFL.

You can keep saying he sacked Mayfield or Jackson, my retort those guys hold on the ball a long time, trying to make plays that lead to being sacked.

Like I said I’m having a fun time in this thread, you are mostly on defense with a “ homer “ type of view. No looking for outs, the bet is for the 2019 draft. If Oliver play in 2018 hurts his stock, and opts to stay in school another year, you lose.
 
When you lose the bet Coach, and you will.

Once you return they should give you a "special" title underneath the forefather.

:biggrin1:
 
Coach said:
Right, he beats up on centers and guards that won't draw breath in an NFL camp. Every decent player is double teamed, don’t use that as an excuse. Not that you are, but I suspect you might.

As I pointed out he gets plenty of rushing the passer opportunities, because his team is often way up on points. Oliver’s tackles for losses are tending down this year as well. Will he still have 0 sacks in five games played in 2018? Stay tuned! Do you really think he'll measure up 6'3" tall??? His arms don't look very big by DT standards. And his chances of winning the Heisman, as I told you are about zero.

Our very own Hargrave had far more sacks vs weaker opposition. Doesn't make him a pass rusher in the NFL.

You can keep saying he sacked Mayfield or Jackson, my retort those guys hold on the ball a long time, trying to make plays that lead to being sacked.

Like I said I’m having a fun time in this thread, you are mostly on defense with a “ homer “ type of view. No looking for outs, the bet is for the 2019 draft. If Oliver play in 2018 hurts his stock, and opts to stay in school another year, you lose.
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not as a true Freshman and sophomore. At least I am posting a viewpoint based on watching a kid play for two years. Unlike you, I don't form an opinion based on less than half the facts, or someone else's write up.

The only one trying to change the bet has been you. I have stuck by my comments and the bet I accepted from the get-go. YOU keep posting alternate versions of our wager...but no fear, I have the bet saved.
 
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Coach said:
Like I said I’m having a fun time in this thread, you are mostly on defense with a “ homer “ type of view. No looking for outs, the bet is for the 2019 draft. If Oliver play in 2018 hurts his stock, and opts to stay in school another year, you lose.
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Of course you are having fun, you are preparing yourself for the loss. Knowing you we expect a proliferation of BS threads as some kind of send off from you when you lose.

BTW Bonehead, he already declared for the 2019 draft. If he isn’t hurt, he’s turning pro.



Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app
 
Ive seen 2 mock drafts. Both have him going no later than 7th.
 
Cope said:
Coolie, What is a better outcome?

You win the bet with Oliver going in the top 10?

or

He drops out of the top 10 and the Steelers draft him?
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**** the bet,.....take the DRAFT but it isn't my dumb *** on the line either......................even so I'd still take the draft pick OLIVER




Salute the nation
 
Cope said:
Coolie, What is a better outcome?

You win the bet with Oliver going in the top 10?

or

He drops out of the top 10 and the Steelers draft him?
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I would gladly lose the bet if it meant the Steelers drafted him....

the way they are playing though, they might be in the top 10
 
so UH played Tulsa last night...once again Oliver did not record a sack, he did have a QB hurry (only one though he was back there more than that)

He did however make 13 tackles including 1.5 TFLs while routinely facing double and triple teams of blockers. Yes coach, I know all great college DTs face double teams...and the very best draw 3 blockers at times
 
CoolieMan said:
so UH played Tulsa last night...once again Oliver did not record a sack, he did have a QB hurry (only one though he was back there more than that)

He did however make 13 tackles including 1.5 TFLs while routinely facing double and triple teams of blockers. Yes coach, I know all great college DTs face double teams...and the very best draw 3 blockers at times
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So five games, no sacks. Are we going to go 0 for 6? 13 tackles is a bit misleading. Oliver had 4 solo tackles. The rest are assisted tackles. I do not doubt Oliver's motor or movement skills. I doubt his competition, pass rushing ability, and ability to shed blocks in the NFL. Plus I think he's a tad undersized. We'll see his full measurements once he works out. He could be shorter than 6'3" tall, with average arm length.

Until then, Oliver's splash plays...Sacks, PD's, INT's, FF's are on the low side for the season. And he gets plenty of chances. Yes he gets a lot of tackles of losses, but I wonder how many tackles for losses he has vs. top 25 rated teams? You can research that.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4039303
 
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Coach said:
So five games, no sacks. Are we going to go 0 for 6? 13 tackles is a bit misleading. Oliver had 4 solo tackles. The rest are assisted tackles. I do not doubt Oliver's motor or movement skills. I doubt his competition, pass rushing ability, and ability to shed blocks in the NFL. Plus I think he's a tad undersized. We'll see his full measurements once he works out. He could be shorter than 6'3" tall, with average arm length.

Until then, Oliver's splash plays...Sacks, PD's, INT's, FF's are on the low side for the season. And he gets plenty of chances. Yes he gets a lot of tackles of losses, but I wonder how many tackles for losses he has vs. top 25 rated teams? You can research that.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4039303
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he plays nose guard...most of the tackles are runs into the line...so yeah other defenders pile on, his half TFL should have been his alone, he blew through the line and caught the RB heading out to the sideline. He grabbed the guy by the jersey and as he swung him to make the tackle two other players piled on him....so just Half a TFL



you research any stats you are interested in....

His best games are against the best competition...as I've stated how he did against OU and Louisville...

you go by stats and I'll go by watching a player for three years
 
13 tackles for a 0 tech is amazing no matter how hard you slice it. Nose tackles only get 1-4 tackles a game (and yes that includes assists). I'm trying to remember another NT getting double digit tackles. I'm not sure if Casey Hampton ever pulled that off. Joe Greene maybe? But he went to a small school and never played tough SEC talent, so he'd be **** in the NFL anyway...
 
Cope said:
13 tackles for a 0 tech is amazing no matter how hard you slice it. Nose tackles only get 1-4 tackles a game (and yes that includes assists). I'm trying to remember another NT getting double digit tackles. I'm not sure if Casey Hampton ever pulled that off. Joe Greene maybe? But he went to a small school and never played tough SEC talent, so he'd be **** in the NFL anyway...
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Put him in the middle of Tuitt and Heyward,I think he makes the D instantaneously better.........
 
CoolieMan said:
he plays nose guard...most of the tackles are runs into the line...so yeah other defenders pile on, his half TFL should have been his alone, he blew through the line and caught the RB heading out to the sideline. He grabbed the guy by the jersey and as he swung him to make the tackle two other players piled on him....so just Half a TFL

you research any stats you are interested in....

His best games are against the best competition...as I've stated how he did against OU and Louisville...

you go by stats and I'll go by watching a player for three years
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I asked before. Are you telling me he isn't in 4 DL formation? Houston coaches can't be that stupid. How many rush attempts does he have in a 4-3, nickel, or dime. A lot, I bet. You can tell me since you watch every game.

Can Oliver go to end and rush the passer? Just asking.

I looked at Houston's upcoming games, they are full of soft touches.

East Carolina
Navy
South Florida
SMU
Temple
Tulane
Memphis

^^^ None of these teams are in the top 25 as of today. Only South Florida has a decent record. If Houston is on air, I will watch and give a breakdown. South Florida might be the toughest of the lot. If they limit Oliver...STOCK DOWN.
 
Houston mainly stays in a 3-4 with Oliver over the center, he ran a few plays outside in the 3-4 set but not many. when UH goes to a 4-3, he is a DT, but they do not do a lot of that either. Their defensive coordinator this season is an idiot and they don't bring pressure as much as they have in past seasons. When they finally started bringing pressure last night, they forced errors by the young Tulsa QB and took over the game.

UH's schedule is softer this season, Navy and Memphis have not been as tough as the past few years and they miss out on UCF in the regular season, but if they hold court they should meet UCF in the Conference Championship.

They were on ESPN last night you should have tuned it in.

The game film for the OU game from 2016 and the Lousivile game are both out on youtube to watch...He had good games against both ranked teams.

really don't care about your breakdown as your mind is made up anyway....
 
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CoolieMan said:
Houston mainly stays in a 3-4 with Oliver over the center, he ran a few plays outside in the 3-4 set but not many. when UH goes to a 4-3, he is a DT, but they do not do a lot of that either. Their defensive coordinator this season is an idiot and they don't bring pressure as much as they have in past seasons. When they finally started bringing pressure last night, they forced errors by the young Tulsa QB and took over the game.

UH's schedule is softer this season, Navy and Memphis have not been as tough as the past few years and they miss out on UCF in the regular season, but if they hold court they should meet UCF in the Conference Championship.

They were on ESPN last night you should have tuned it in.

The game film for the OU game from 2016 and the Lousivile game are both out on youtube to watch...He had good games against both ranked teams.

really don't care about your breakdown as your mind is made up anyway....
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Maybe their DC is an idiot! Maybe he's worried about their DB's.

If you have the breakdowns of the defenses snaps, I'd like to read it. I tend to doubt they play more 3 man DL lines than 4 man lines, as they are often in the lead vs. weak college football teams. My guess is #10 has plenty of 4 man DL formats when rushing the passer. He's still got a goose egg for sacks.
 
Coach said:
Maybe their DC is an idiot! Maybe he's worried about their DB's.

If you have the breakdowns of the defenses snaps, I'd like to read it. I tend to doubt they play more 3 man DL lines than 4 man lines, as they are often in the lead vs. weak college football teams. My guess is #10 has plenty of 4 man DL formats when rushing the passer. He's still got a goose egg for sacks.
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I say the same as I did for the Steelers, you want you DBs to look better...pressure the QB

you haven't watched a game and you know how their defense works...
 
CoolieMan said:
I say the same as I did for the Steelers, you want you DBs to look better...pressure the QB

you haven't watched a game and you know how their defense works...
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He is telling you his "guess".


Which translates to everyone not having to guess, that he hasn't watch him play.

Doesn't watch the game / always has some snazzy opinion from something he read.
 
I'm not going to lie, I don't watch a lot of college football, but Coolie sent me the link of Oliver's first start as a true freshman against Baker Mayfield at the University of Oklahoma. It was an excellent game (still up in its entirety on youtube), and he was impactful on just about every play. That is as good of talent as he will ever face, and if he can make Mayfield run for his life, track him down when he runs, and beat him to the sidelines, the kid can play.
 
slashsteel said:
He is telling you his "guess".


Which translates to everyone not having to guess, that he hasn't watch him play.

Doesn't watch the game / always has some snazzy opinion from something he read.
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Coolie is trying to make it out like Oliver is NT only in a 3 man line. He says NT and 3-4 over and over again. I asked for a breakdown of how often Houston plays 4 DL players.

Here's what I know, Oliver has 0 sacks in either the 3-4, 4-3, nickel, or dime. I have seen his clips before. Have you? A full game, sorry that's not worth my time when it's on live. I have better ways to spend 3 hours.

However, just for some fun, I might watch an online game just looking at the defense and #10. Remember my Burns review after watching his targets? Rather spot on! Check it out, then maybe just maybe you'll what I am capable of.

-Coach
 
Coach said:
Coolie is trying to make it out like Oliver is NT only in a 3 man line. He says NT and 3-4 over and over again. I asked for a breakdown of how often Houston plays 4 DL players.

Here's what I know, Oliver has 0 sacks in either the 3-4, 4-3, nickel, or dime. I have seen his clips before. Have you? A full game, sorry that's not worth my time when it's on live. I have better ways to spend 3 hours.

However, just for some fun, I might watch an online game just looking at the defense and #10. Remember my Burns review after watching his targets? Rather spot on! Check it out, then maybe just maybe you'll what I am capable of.

-Coach
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It isn't my debate, if it was you can damn sure bet I would watch more than "clips".

A full game isn't worth your time, then your opinion isn't worth ours.

Really simple coach put in the time to watch who you are debating or expect everyone to take zero stock in what you are saying.

So you had some assessment on Burns that is noteworthy?

Oh please by all means please direct me to that thread, so I can witness greatness.

But let us be fair I know what you aren't capable of, and that is watching game tape when evaluating talent..
 
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