Can a defensive player win the Heisman Again? Coolie Pimps Ed Oliver

[Coach]

Uh...no. That was not a pancake block. Oliver managed to disengage and was trying to get to the ball carrier side, all the while the OL was hanging on him. He either slipped or lost his footing and fell down, WITH the OL falling with him. You see Oliver after the play talking to the official about he was being held.

Coach obviously doesn’t know what a pancake block is and is seeing through his “I have to BS may way out of this bet” lenses. You formulate an “informed” opinion on a player after only two series in one game. Again you have explained “his head is to big to play” method. Its laughable.


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Watch it again! Oliver pushed 3 yards back and ends up on the turf. Now tell me or anyone watching that didn't happen. You can't. Be gone. The only thing you can do is argue terminology.

If you read what I said, I have more to watch. The funny thing you watch jack about the players I comment on for the most part, but cast stones living in a glass house.

 

[CoolieMan]

Coolie,

Now you saying he didn't play well vs Arizona? Wow, those goal posts are moving back quickly. You didn't say that until I commented later. You said watch the film, and I'm doing that. I call them as the video shows, and Arizona is by no means a good team. Those who follow along can see the plays I put in red and match the time to judge for themselves.

I've noticed a few things:

1 ) Oliver isn't double teamed often on this film, meaning the coaches on the other side thing they can handle him 1 on 1 often with what they have.

2 ) His pass rush is very suspect. Terrible vs Tackles. His bull rush looks average. He's got to win with quickness.

3 ) He is a lighter weight Defensive lineman and can be pushed around at the college level vs mediocre teams. What is going to happen in the NFL??? A liability as a run defender?

4 ) Houston plays many 4 man fronts, and often has a big lead giving Oliver a greater chance for splash plays when the other team is passing. Yet he not making many of them this year.

5 ) The announcer he’s really 275 pounds. What in your opinion is his playing weight? I think that is too light for the NFL today for an interior defensive lineman.

6 ) Oliver is not a 5 technique guy, nor is he a true NT 2 gap type. Not close to a wide 9 guy either. He's a 1 and 3 technique type of Defensive Lineman. NFL teams that have good corners and like to play man that play a 4-3 system that ask their Defensive Tackles to shoot the gaps often might want him the most on draft day.


I'll tell you what, you can use a mulligan here. Pick any game this year where I can view the film. I'm curious if he's soloing these big plays ( Beating his man and getting to the ball carrier by himself or not. ) My suspension is can get past a center or guard who will never play in the NFL, and has his share of tackles for losses flushed to him by other defenders. But to clarify I’ll need to watch more film.

5 tackles for him is not a good game...only 0.5 TFLs is not his usual. He did sit out part f the second Quarter and most of the 3rd quarter though....he did have 4 QB hurries and a pass defended...

you watched two series and formed a poor opinion. And he was doubled more than you think. Your review of the one play he lined up against the tackle is inaccurate (I have already posted my views on that)

As I stated, one announcer guessed he was closer to 275 while the other called him 280+ when watching the video of him doing a footwork drill..

they may add a LB to the line, but they don't run 4 DL fronts...

Ed doesn't stay in games when they get a big lead, they are just sending him out to pad stats...

If you are dumb enough to form this opinion on two series of one game you are a bigger fool than I think you are.

 

[slashsteel]

I'll give a look-see later after work.

 

[Coach]

5 tackles for him is not a good game...only 0.5 TFLs is not his usual. He did sit out part f the second Quarter and most of the 3rd quarter though....he did have 4 QB hurries and a pass defended...

you watched two series and formed a poor opinion. And he was doubled more than you think. Your review of the one play he lined up against the tackle is inaccurate (I have already posted my views on that)

As I stated, one announcer guessed he was closer to 275 while the other called him 280+ when watching the video of him doing a footwork drill..

they may add a LB to the line, but they don't run 4 DL fronts...

Ed doesn't stay in games when they get a big lead, they are just sending him out to pad stats...

If you are dumb enough to form this opinion on two series of one game you are a bigger fool than I think you are.

No need to get testy Coolie. Last year Oliver averaged 6.08 tackles per game, so 5 tackles vs Arizona is not far off the average. DUH. 2017. 12 games, 73 tackles. I gave you the math.

I asked you what do you think he weighs. Are you going to just parrot the announcers?

I'm counting the amount of players on the DL. I see 4 often and Houston moves Oliver around a bit. He's not a pass rusher. I ponder what a good SEC, or Big Ten DL player would do vs the same competition. I bet they would have more sacks, and plays behind the line of Scrimmage.

If you read slowly I said I need to watch more, so don't get your panties in a bunch from the early film review! Its not my final opinion, just an initial observation.

I also said if you can find another 2018 game, I can watch that, as I can see your already saying this wasn't a good game despite him playing a sub par team.

PS: I think even you would say the Heisman hype for Oliver is dead. Not going to happen, as I told you.

 

[CoolieMan]

No need to get testy Coolie. Last year Oliver averaged 6.08 tackles per game, so 5 tackles vs Arizona is not far off the average. DUH. 2017. 12 games, 73 tackles. I gave you the math.

I asked you what do you think he weighs. Are you going to just parrot the announcers?

I'm counting the amount of players on the DL. I see 4 often and Houston moves Oliver around a bit. He's not a pass rusher. I ponder what a good SEC, or Big Ten DL player would do vs the same competition. I bet they would have more sacks, and plays behind the line of Scrimmage.

If you read slowly I said I need to watch more, so don't get your panties in a bunch from the early film review! Its not my final opinion, just an initial observation.

I also said if you can find another 2018 game, I can watch that, as I can see your already saying this wasn't a good game despite him playing a sub par team.

PS: I think even you would say the Heisman hype for Oliver is dead. Not going to happen, as I told you.

if you could read you would see that I stated in my intial post that he would not win the Heisman....

I have stated that we won't know his real weight until the combine, not sure what else to say there. You want me to drive to campus and ask him to get on a scale?

you final opinion will be as meaningless as the one you have now.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Watch it again! Oliver pushed 3 yards back and ends up on the turf. Now tell me or anyone watching that didn't happen. You can't. Be gone. The only thing you can do is argue terminology.

If you read what I said, I have more to watch. The funny thing you watch jack about the players I comment on for the most part, but cast stones living in a glass house.

No need to get testy Cooch. You say Oliver was pushed, yet don’t even understand he was disengaging because the ball carrier wasn’t going to his gap. In turn the OL was hanging on him while Oliver was running through trash. I’m not arguing terminology, I’m arguing your football intelligence on evaluations. It is nil. Anyone who thinks he can have an informed opinion after looking at 2 series of one game, when the guy has played at least 3 years 20+ games, and had formidable production to be nationally recognized is an idiot. Thanks for proving it.

I comment on the keyboard warriors like yourself particularly because you ad nauseam continuously bog down the board with your “you are never wrong and never own up to being wrong” prose. Your musings are nothing but for self gratification, at the expense of contributors and decent non contribs.

As for me to “be gone”, sorry that isn’t happening. But you will be gone! Hahahaha when Coolie cleans your clock on this bet. Just make sure you don’t get YOUR panties in a wad when you are gone clown.


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[slashsteel]

I saw some double teams good penetration, and good pursuit. Very active, And the O-linemen weren't afraid to grab him in the back, front, etc.

The one play was him losing his footing and the guy landing on his back while he was trying to pursue.

coach how you don't see that he was a handful is beyond me

obviously the other team thought enough of him to double him.......

 

[CoolieMan]

as much as he is held, there has only been one call go his way this season and that was just because he was tackled on the way to the QB

 

[CoolieMan]

and this average DL currently leads all DL with an average of 8.0 tackles per game...

 

[Stryker]

and this average DL currently leads all DL with an average of 8.0 tackles per game...

Anything over 4 tackles per game is exceptional for a DL. Averaging 8 is unheard of. Any stats guy should be able to see that!

 

[slashsteel]

Anything over 4 tackles per game is exceptional for a DL. Averaging 8 is unheard of. Any stats guy should be able to see that!

While I was watching him seeing his frame and athleticism. I thought why can't this guy be a DE compared to a NT ?

How he moves and sheds so well. I don't know if I draft him for NT. I think I like him just as much at end.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Slash, he will be able to play DT/DE in the either 3 or 5 technique easily. A good DCoord at the pro level will figure out a way to move him up and down the line.


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[Ike Kelly]

While I was watching him seeing his frame and athleticism. I thought why can't this guy be a DE compared to a NT ?

How he moves and sheds so well. I don't know if I draft him for NT. I think I like him just as much at end.

Slash, he will be able to play DT/DE in the either 3 or 5 technique easily. I don’t think using him as a 1 tech fits his ability. His athleticism is wasted there. A good DCoord at the pro level will figure out a way to move him up and down the line.


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[Drink IRON City]

Slash, he will be able to play DT/DE in the either 3 or 5 technique easily. A good DCoord at the pro level will figure out a way to move him up and down the line.


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I'm assuming you are talking about another team besides the STEELERS current D coaching, whomever it is (butler / Tomlin / Joey etc.)






Salute the nation

 

[CoolieMan]

I'm assuming you are talking about another team besides the STEELERS current D coaching, whomever it is (butler / Tomlin / Joey etc.)






Salute the nation

of course he means a good defensive coordinator...

 

[CoolieMan]

and this "weak" conference has 3 teams in the TOP 25.....granted all three are in the Eastern division and UH only has to face one of them (USF) unless they make it to the Conference Championship where they should meet one of the other ranked teams...

 

[CoolieMan]

While I was watching him seeing his frame and athleticism. I thought why can't this guy be a DE compared to a NT ?

How he moves and sheds so well. I don't know if I draft him for NT. I think I like him just as much at end.

Coach Applewhite was on the radio locally this morning and one of the talking heads (Lance Zierlein who does a lot of work on NFL.com draft site) asked the same thing...why Oliver is used mostly at Nose when he is likely to be moved to a 3 technique at the next level...

Applewhite said a lot of **** without really giving an answer.

 

[Coach]

and this average DL currently leads all DL with an average of 8.0 tackles per game...

He’s not making many a ton solo tackles. In fact his solo tackles are trending down from his past two seasons. Oliver is making a lot of assisted tackles. I said he’s athletic enough and with smarts to disengage vs. mediocre college competition and get into the play.

If I have time, I’ll watch more of Oliver vs Arizona on Friday.

Heisman my @ss. Not a chance as I told you. Which mock draft site will start doing their homework and have Oliver out of the top ten first? As I told you interior DL players seldom go in the top ten, and those who do are much bigger, tend to play top coemption, and can get to the QB. With a career high of 5.5 sacks for the year, I think we see his ceiling as a pass rusher.

I flat out question Oliver’s playing weight, arm length, pass rushing ability, competition level and deployment options. He’s not a defensive end, not even close. He a gap shooting defensive tackle tackle. Hardly a traditional 3-4 nose tackle. I get it, the networks are hyping him to the moon. To bad his play level isn’t matching their hype, but oh they love to say his name when he does something good.

With zero sacks in 5 games played, the networks will have fireworks prepared when he gets his first sack of the season.

In terms of splash plays, his forte is tackles for losses, but that is trending down from his other seasons.

2018 = 0 sacks, no forced fumbles, just 1 pass defended after 5 games.

If Oliver changes his mind and stays in school, you lose the bet as he did not go inside the top 10 for the 2019 draft.

 

[Coach]

Slash, he will be able to play DT/DE in the either 3 or 5 technique easily. A good DCoord at the pro level will figure out a way to move him up and down the line.


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He's too short and light to play to be featured as a five technique and his pass rush is weaker on the edge. Assuming the announcer is correct, how many 5 technique guys are 6'2, 275-280 pounds with short arms? I see zero that start Ike, enlightened me and find two of them to support your theory.

Players are moved up and down the line all the time. Houston does it too. Oliver was a zero as a edge rusher in this game. I don't know how many of his sacks come from beating a college tackle. I'd guess very few.

 

[CoolieMan]

Oliver averaged 3.8 and 3.9 solo tackles per game in 2016 and 2017..this season so far he is averaging 3.4 (and he played very little against TSU)
Oliver averaged 1.8 and 1.4 TFLs per game in 2016 and 2017...this season so far he is averaging 1.3 TFLs

His current average of 8.0 tackles per game for 2018 is leading the nation for DLs

and that is lumping in a 3 tackle game against TSU where he played sparingly since Texas Southern was not worth hurting himself. TSU got the game from UH for letting them use their basketball arena while UH's was being rebuilt.

you watched two series and think you know how a kid plays? As I pointed out your "analysis" on his one play where he lined up over the tackle was poor. He stood the tackle up and when he saw the QB rolling out to his right, he threw the tackle to the ground and gave pursuit.


much like your opinion on Troy back in the day...your views here are worthless..

 

[CoolieMan]

and stop pimping the fact that you said he is not winning the Heisman...my first two words in this thread were "not likely"...so you are behind the curve on that analysis also

 

[Coach]

and stop pimping the fact that you said he is not winning the Heisman...my first two words in this thread were "not likely"...so you are behind the curve on that analysis also

Coolie,

The title of the thread asks the question. Can a defensive player win the Heisman Again? My reply to the question then and now is not a chance.

Let's talk about to Oliver's strength. Tackles for losses as you keep mentioning them. I pondered where he might rate among NCCA defenders this season.. Try tied for 41st. Nothing special.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/39


What about solo tackles? I checked. Not rated

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/34



But Coach that's not total tackles solo + assisted! Okay I checked there too. Not rated.


https://www.ncaa.com/stats/football/fbs/current/individual/35


No need to checks sacks, as he has none.


I'm looking forward to watching more, and like I said you can pick the another game if needed.

 

[CoolieMan]

do you realize that EVERYONE on the Solo tackle list is either a LB or a DB and everyone on the total tackle list is also a LB or DB...but if you go to page two and find the first DL...who shows up Ed Oliver. you don't find another DL until page 4.

you want to compare his stats...compare him to guys playing his position or at least the DL

 

[Ike Kelly]

He's too short and light to play to be featured as a five technique and his pass rush is weaker on the edge. Assuming the announcer is correct, how many 5 technique guys are 6'2, 275-280 pounds with short arms? I see zero that start Ike, enlightened me and find two of them to support your theory.

Players are moved up and down the line all the time. Houston does it too. Oliver was a zero as a edge rusher in this game. I don't know how many of his sacks come from beating a college tackle. I'd guess very few.

Well if you knew anything about the position, you would guess right off you have Dwight Freeney and John Randall. Two similar builds DL who played DE or DT.

You obviously didn’t see my post from yours listing DL being drafted in the top 10 for the past ten years.

“I don’t know how many of his sacks come from.....”, yet you form a lock down opinion of the player you haven’t even fully evaluated? Your argument is laughable to your creditably as a evaluator. Just save yourself the trouble and admit (you won’t) you are just another mouther who likes to see his ramblings on the internet.

BTW......there was disagreement about Oliver winning the Heisman? If you could read full sentences you would have ascertained Coolie agreed his ability to win was scarce. What the whole issue with this thread, and what you are obviously trying to change the narrative is the bet that Oliver won’t be drafted in the top 10. History shows you will lose this bet. So get prepared to have a vacation when it happens. Maybe you can work on your cognitive skills while you are on hiatus, or even better, bag groceries on the side so you can be a contributor instead of abusing your non-contrib status.



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[Coach]

do you realize that EVERYONE on the Solo tackle list is either a LB or a DB and everyone on the total tackle list is also a LB or DB...but if you go to page two and find the first DL...who shows up Ed Oliver. you don't find another DL until page 4.

you want to compare his stats...compare him to guys playing his position or at least the DL

There are plenty of DL players on the tackles for looses and sacks list. Oliver barley rates on one, and does not quality for the other. No excuses there.

You're borderline crazy to suggest the conference he plays in ( American Athletic Conference ) is close to the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC. These are know as the power five. Oliver made history as the first 5 star recruit not to sign with them, which could have been very smart as he would not be as productive vs. better competition.