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Taliban 2, USA 1

Confluence said:
Other than Reagan, which US President, since WWII ended, has not sucked at foreign policy?
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Not a foreign policy expert, but always heard Eisenhower was a pragmatic realist who typically made sound, calculated decisions with foreign policy.
 
Ron Burgundy said:
Trump, W. Bush, JFK.
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I will pass on Trump, but JFK ****** up the Bay of Pigs and handling the USSR, W was boss for 9/11 and responsible for invading and staying in Afghanistan.......when the bad guys were in Pakistan, funded by Saudis, and only sometimes hid out in Afghanistan because they could hide amongst the tribal folks. And Iraq....what was that really about....because the bad guys are still next door in Iran.
 
Tibs said:
The *media* will have this as Trump's fault?

Let's look at the facts.

In 2018, Trump arranged for the release of terrorists from prison in exchange for a 3(!) month ceasefire. One of those prisoners was Taliban co-founder Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar who will be the new head of Afghanistan under Taliban rule. He sold out Afghanistan to the Taliban & invited the Taliban to Camp David.

Look it up and check the historical record.
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Maybe had he continued on his path we wouldn’t be in this debacle. unless we stayed we were turning the Country back over to the Taliban. At least his way may have been a bit more controlled. So stop with this is Trumps fault BS This is Obamas fault to a degree for not pulling out after we got Bin Laden. Joe **** the bed big time in HOW he did this.
 
Badcat said:
I'm not in a good place right now. This just crushed my heart man. Too many died needlessly.
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Joey Jones (retired USMC IED expert) was on Fox Outnumbered talking about his fallen brothers and his interactions with some of the Afghan people, and I had to turn it off. Heartbreaking, the whole damn thing. To those of you who serve or have served, can't possibly imagine what you've went through. Now is not the time to play partisan bullshit bickering and who could've done what or who ****** what up.
 
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Also caught a snippet of a human being who was trying to hang on (insane but never underestimate the power of utter desperation) falling to their death from a U.S. aircraft after takeoff, but nobody needs to see that. Sad day all-around. Everybody just try to be cool and decent to one another, this is just not the time.
 
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Confluence said:
Again, the nation building that the US did in Japan and Germany, with massive military bases still in country, was what brought the globe the peace dividend felt over the past 70+ years.

The difference between Japan/Germany and Korea/Vietnam/Iran/Desert Storm/Afghanistan?

In my opinion, US politicians did not permit the US military to complete the necessary tasks to properly begin new administrations. Weak kneed politicians, poor media and a fearful population at home all combined to take the spine away from the military.
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No the difference is that Japan/Germany/Korea were not populated by Muslims who actually want to live under sharia law. This was always going to be the outcome and this is why there should have been a hard out the second Bin Laden was dead.
 
Steelworth said:
Not a foreign policy expert, but always heard Eisenhower was a pragmatic realist who typically made sound, calculated decisions with foreign policy.
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I thought of mentioning Ike but he was before my time and I don’t know much about him.
 
Steelworth said:



Also caught a snippet of a human being who was trying to hang on (insane but never underestimate the power of utter desperation) falling to their death from a U.S. aircraft after takeoff, but nobody needs to say that. Sad day all-around. Everybody just try to be cool and decent to one another, this is just not the time.
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This started with people plunging from the WTC to their deaths, and ends with the same desperation and fall from a jet.

Because of failed leadership of the politicians and bloated intelligence surveillance apparatus.
 
Badcat said:
People are too politically charged see this a complete and utter failure to plan and execute this withdrawal. This is NOT a Trump/Biden argument, it's not even a Democrat vs Republican argument, America ****** up. The Chiefs of Staff, Secretary of Defense, Generals, Secretary of state, etc. This is a giant clusterfuck.

Pull your heads out of your *****, stop pointing fingers at one another because they're on another "side" and pen an email to your representatives and DEMAND action to unfuck this situation. If we spent more of our energy, resources and knowledge contacting our reps and less on message board bickering maybe **** would get done. I'm just as guilty and seeing the desperation of the people of Afghanistan was a wake up call for me.
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We left innocent people out to dry. Just straight up left no remorse. Cold
 
MTC said:
We left innocent people out to dry. Just straight up left no remorse. Cold
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We'll probably never gain the trust of a local populous again. Who would be willing to help our troops in country after this? You're 100% correct, there are interpreters and so many others who were vital to missions being slaughtered along with their families who are probably being raped before their heads are slowly cut off of their torsos.

My blood is boiling and my heart hurts man. What the **** happened to our country? We are a laughing stock of bumbling idiots.
 
Stainless said:
ABC had some special coverage of this catastrophe last night and they had quoted a young Afghani girl as asking something along of the lines of "why don't more people care?", which kind of sucks.
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It does, but she should be asking that question to the mighty Afghan military, that either turned tail and ran or defected to the Taliban. I have so many conflicted feelings and my mind goes about 100 different directions when discussing this topic. I was there 4 times. Wasn't sure what it was for, especially the last time, but I really don't know now. I lost friends down there, and saw enough others loaded onto helicopters in flag draped body bags.

Still, we couldn't stay there forever. Afghanistan had to take responsibility for their own defense and security and they didn't. If their own country isn't worth fighting for to them, then why should it be to us?
 
Steelworth said:
Not a foreign policy expert, but always heard Eisenhower was a pragmatic realist who typically made sound, calculated decisions with foreign policy.
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Almost like he was a former general or something.

I kind of wish more military leaders would would run for the Senate or Presidency, but can understand why they don't.

Being in Washington, they get a front row seat to the **** show.
 
news.google.com

Military Plane Fleeing Afghanistan Shot Down by Uzbekistan

Uzbekistan's air defense system confirmed that it downed an Afghan military plane on Sunday that was attempting to enter its airspace illegally, the AP reported on Monday. The takedown took place in the southeastern portion of the country near Surkhandarya where the nation shares a border with...
news.google.com news.google.com
 
Punxsutawney said:
Almost like he was a former general or something.

I kind of wish more military leaders would would run for the Senate or Presidency, but can understand why they don't.

Being in Washington, they get a front row seat to the **** show.
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Why when you can make 100x bank working for Northrop-Grumman and Lockheed? Those high rank General Officers did their political dealings while in the Pentagon and cash-out after their DD214 is issued.
 
This goes without saying, but there are going to be some nasty videos circulating the internet from Afghanistan in the coming weeks/months at the hands of the Taliban.

If you don't want to see some disgustingly barbaric ****, I'd avoid social media for the most part. And remember, there are medieval torture devices from just about every major civilization throughout human history, so the torture, gore and utter depravity is not anything new. We just live in a place and period of mostly unicorns and rainbows, so never forget how fortunate you are to have been born & raised in the United States of America.

There are hundreds of millions of others not so fortunate and it's going to continue to be like hell on earth for them. If you're a praying person, now is a good time.
 
My dad used to remind me that when we left Vietnam we made Vietnam the 4th best supplied land army in the world or somewhere up the rankings.
 
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