2017 NFL Draft Q&A

[antdrewjosh]

Hmm, maybe he will drop to the bottom of the first or even the 2nd. Wonder what the deal is, don't recall him having any drug related issues.

Probably weed. The question is it a recreational issue or habit

 

[slashsteel]

Hmm, maybe he will drop to the bottom of the first or even the 2nd. Wonder what the deal is, don't recall him having any drug related issues.

I would be ok with him in round 2.

 

[TMC]

Maybe when he was talking to teams about playing safety, someone told him he couldn't handle single high, so he got a bag and a bong to prove them wrong.

He still sucks in deep coverage. Drug test or not, that doesn't change.

 

[Coach]

Maybe when he was talking to teams about playing safety, someone told him he couldn't handle single high, so he got a bag and a bong to prove them wrong.

He still sucks in deep coverage. Drug test or not, that doesn't change.

Yep. Who wants a saftey these days picked in round one that can not provide deep coverage? On Peppers, I am alarmed by his lack of plays on the ball as well.

I now like Justin Evans better than Peppers.

 

[antdrewjosh]

Yep. Who wants a saftey these days picked in round one that can not provide deep coverage? On Peppers, I am alarmed by his lack of plays on the ball as well.

I now like Justin Evans better than Peppers.

Well that seals it Peppers will be a star

 

[Tibs]

Well that seals it Peppers will be a star

 

[ark steel]

Probably weed.

So, you are saying he listens to rap?

 

[Tibs]

"Peppers went to the combine. He was sick after flying there from San Diego. He has a history of cramping," a CAA spokesman told ESPN. "Peppers was being pumped with fluids, drinking 8-10 bottles of water before he went to bed, because he was the first guy to work out two days for the LBs and DBs. He had to go through that first day, come back on second day, and that was the fear. So Peppers was pounding water and under the weather. He never failed a drug test in his life, nor tested positive before for any substance."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap30...e-sample?campaign=fb-nf-sf72836625-sf72836625

 

[slashsteel]

no problem if he elects to take a hair sample yinz throw out that result....

not sure I like one diluted sample, and a player gets a failed test label,,,,

 

[Tibs]

First, Charles Harris, Derek Barnett, Tim Williams, Taco Charlton, Tarrell Basham, and Daeshon Hall are guys I'm not really interested in, for a variety of reasons, be it fit, off-the-field, or just bad film/athletic numbers.

TMC, I'm curious what your issues are with Basham? He seems like a decent enough prospect for what we look for in an OLB.

 

[TMC]

TMC, I'm curious what your issues are with Basham? He seems like a decent enough prospect for what we look for in an OLB.

First, small-school guy, faced lower level of competion. Film is okay. His bench of 15 reps is bad. I can do that right now and I haven't fully recovered from surgery yet. His vertical is low end. All his workout numbers are average or below. Nothing really jumps out at me. I think the jump in competition will swallow him up. And, he is a 2nd/3rd rounder? Nope. I'm not biting on that one.

And, let me add this about the safeties being discussed, we just got our *** handed to us by the Patriots because we were dropping OLBs in coverage to help a secondary that cannot man up. So, to answer that, we are looking at strong safeties that struggle in coverage? No thank you to Peppers or Evans. Their areas of concern are coverage. Josh Jones is listed as a SS, but he played a shitload of free, a lot of single high as well. Better in coverage than against the run. Baker is coverage. Tedric Thompson....coverage. Hooker, Marcus Maye, John Johnson, Rayshawn Jenkins...coverage. I'll take FSs and SSs that can cover. Downhill run support guys are not where we need to focus our resources.

 

[Superman]

So, you are saying he listens to rap?

corn rows are started. dreads can't be far behind.

 

[antdrewjosh]

First, small-school guy, faced lower level of competion. Film is okay. His bench of 15 reps is bad. I can do that right now and I haven't fully recovered from surgery yet. His vertical is low end. All his workout numbers are average or below. Nothing really jumps out at me. I think the jump in competition will swallow him up. And, he is a 2nd/3rd rounder? Nope. I'm not biting on that one.

And, let me add this about the safeties being discussed, we just got our *** handed to us by the Patriots because we were dropping OLBs in coverage to help a secondary that cannot man up. So, to answer that, we are looking at strong safeties that struggle in coverage? No thank you to Peppers or Evans. Their areas of concern are coverage. Josh Jones is listed as a SS, but he played a shitload of free, a lot of single high as well. Better in coverage than against the run. Baker is coverage. Tedric Thompson....coverage. Hooker, Marcus Maye, John Johnson, Rayshawn Jenkins...coverage. I'll take FSs and SSs that can cover. Downhill run support guys are not where we need to focus our resources.

I like Josh Jones as well.

 

[ark steel]

First, small-school guy, faced lower level of competion. Film is okay. His bench of 15 reps is bad. I can do that right now and I haven't fully recovered from surgery yet. His vertical is low end. All his workout numbers are average or below. Nothing really jumps out at me. I think the jump in competition will swallow him up. And, he is a 2nd/3rd rounder? Nope. I'm not biting on that one.

And, let me add this about the safeties being discussed, we just got our *** handed to us by the Patriots because we were dropping OLBs in coverage to help a secondary that cannot man up. So, to answer that, we are looking at strong safeties that struggle in coverage? No thank you to Peppers or Evans. Their areas of concern are coverage. Josh Jones is listed as a SS, but he played a shitload of free, a lot of single high as well. Better in coverage than against the run. Baker is coverage. Tedric Thompson....coverage. Hooker, Marcus Maye, John Johnson, Rayshawn Jenkins...coverage. I'll take FSs and SSs that can cover. Downhill run support guys are not where we need to focus our resources.

I think, if the idea is that you want to build a team that can keep up with the *'s and still beat others, you need to rely on coverage more than getting to the QB. The edge guys aren't going to get to Brady if the coverage can't cover their guys for more than a couple of seconds. I mean, I KNOW, every team in the NFL knows how to beat the *'s and Tomlin is the only idiot who doesn't, but, somehow, the *'s were 6th in sacks allowed. They allowed 24 sacks during last season, 9 of which were in the first 4 games when Brady wasn't playing. The other 12 games, they averaged 1.25/game.

Several times, we get the rusher a half-step from the QB before he gets rid of the ball. Maybe a better rusher gets that extra half step, but if our DB's can cover that half second longer, the rusher can get there and, against the quick release QB's, the rushers still have a chance.

Therefore, if I have a DB and Edge guy ranked close, I think I go DB in round 1 and take my edge guy in round 2.

 

[Tibs]

TMC, I wanted to throw another name out there for later on in the draft, TE Jeremy Sprinkle, Arkansas. Have you seen tape on this guy? From what I've read, he's a pretty good combo TE that can actually block as well as play in the passing game. I think we're in pretty good shape with James & Grimble (regardless of Green's status) but maybe the Steelers want to add another body there.

 

[TMC]

TMC, I wanted to throw another name out there for later on in the draft, TE Jeremy Sprinkle, Arkansas. Have you seen tape on this guy? From what I've read, he's a pretty good combo TE that can actually block as well as play in the passing game. I think we're in pretty good shape with James & Grimble (regardless of Green's status) but maybe the Steelers want to add another body there.

Yeah, on the field, I like him. But, this f'ing guy goes to the Belk bowl with his team, they get $450 to spend in Belks on a 30-minute shopping spree and this guy obviously thinks it isn't enough and gets caught shoplifting more items. So, he gets suspended from the Belk bowl and cited for unlawful concealment (shoplifting). I mean, how damn dumb can somebody be? You know, I get having a couple drinks at a party and getting popped for underage drinking or public drunk. You are young and dumb. But, you are a senior at a team function and you just need this snazzy belt to match your shoes....that is just dumb. I mean, I cannot express how dumb that is. It ranks right up there with actually failing a drug test at the combine, not a diluted sample because I get the whole ill and drank water angle, but I am talking about knowing it is coming and lighting up and then pissing hot...just dumb ****. I don't know if I can get past someone being that dumb. Will they be smarter after you hand them a boatload of cash or will they look like the dudes from Girls Gone Wild and make it rain.

 

[TMC]

I want to go back to the whole Peppers/SS thing before I lay down this bloody stick. I don't want it to seem like there are not teams that can use Peppers, there are, and he might be a stud for them, but it isn't us. Here is why, as I have stated, Peppers struggles when his back is to the QB, so in man coverages down the field, he doesn't have that natural feel to read WRs and get his head around to locate the ball. It isn't easy, some corners never develop it after years of playing the position. ****, Stephon Gilmore is one. In addition, when he is deep, say in cover-2 or single-high, he doesn't read routes well, gets caught peeping the backfield and gives up things over the top too easily. So, what you need is a team with a great FS and play coverages like the Ravens used to do with Ed Reed. You have that guy in the middle, as a single high, and you can cheat Peppers down into the box, say near the slot, but his coverage is zone or the flat. That way, he is helping in run support and handling coverages that fit in his wheelhouse. So, you are talking Cover-1, Cover-3, Cover-6 teams where he is limited to underneath coverages or, at worst, 1/3rd of the field. That isn't us. We play Cover-2, need more range and feel in deep zone. We play quarters at times, some Cover-3, but not enough of those coverages that Peppers would excel in handling. So, when you talk guys like Peppers, Obi Melinfonwu, Justin Evans, the in-the-box run thumpers first, they are not exactly ideal for us.

Did we visit two of them? Yes. But, maybe we brought them in to put them on the whiteboard to see if they understood the concepts, to see if they had been introduced into schemes that were friendly to us to see if they could project to our defense. And, I am really apprehensive of spending a high pick on a guy we hope can do what we do when there are guys coming out playing similar concepts to ours and doing it at a high level. I don't hate Peppers, just like I don't hate Melinfonwu or Evans, I just question if they are the right guys for where we want to go.

 

[steelpastor]

.

I Feel that Eddie Jackson (Safety from Alabama) is kind of off the radar of most evaluators. He has had some injuries during his career that has limited him. He has two years at CB before switching to Safety. He has an eye for the ball and has return ability. He was a permanent Captain for the Tide... that says something about his leadership. He broke his leg half way thru the 2016 season... so no Combine or Pro Day numbers.

What is your take on him and when would he come into play... 4th round?

.

 

[keslerclan]

Has anyone done a thorough review of either John Johnson (SYR) or Marcus Williams (UT) to see where they might go?

Just wondering because both are worse versions of Budda Baker to me and might be an option if one of the Mr. Gadget Safeties goes before we can get him. I'm thinking 4th and beyond only because I think there will be better players (not necessarily at the positions of desire) in the 3rd and we will be forced to try to get a guy who might be better than what we have now, even if he is less than what we wanted.

 

[Litos]

Hi kesler, Marcus Williams is a top 5 FS in this deep draft and I would be ecstatic with him in the 3rd round but I doubt he will last that long.
Very athletic, good in coverage, willing tackler, good bench at the combine so he is no holliman.
Prefer him than many others out there, he'd pair up great with Davis

 

[steelpastor]

Hi kesler, Marcus Williams is a top 5 FS in this deep draft and I would be ecstatic with him in the 3rd round but I doubt he will last that long.
Very athletic, good in coverage, willing tackler, good bench at the combine so he is no holliman.
Prefer him than many others out there, he'd pair up great with Davis

I think that he probably goes round two... probably before we pick.

.

 

[TMC]

.

I Feel that Eddie Jackson (Safety from Alabama) is kind of off the radar of most evaluators. He has had some injuries during his career that has limited him. He has two years at CB before switching to Safety. He has an eye for the ball and has return ability. He was a permanent Captain for the Tide... that says something about his leadership. He broke his leg half way thru the 2016 season... so no Combine or Pro Day numbers.

What is your take on him and when would he come into play... 4th round?

.

I've seen Jackson's name in the 2nd/3rd/4th round on most sites and that is probably about right. When you are comparing him to other guys, he doesn't always take great angles on run plays and will get too deep down in the muck and not find the ball, allowing some guys to squirt past him. He plays with a great defense so they mask that some because they make the play, but in the NFL, I think it becomes a glaring hole in his game and you'll see more bad angles. He can also get caught stepping forward as a deep safety and lets guys get behind him. I think, like Peppers/Melinfonwu/Evans that he is a better fit at strong safety, down in the box, where he seems to read plays better and react quicker. Just not really what we need if we are truly looking to get over the hump and cover some of the matchup warts we have now.

 

[TMC]

Has anyone done a thorough review of either John Johnson (SYR) or Marcus Williams (UT) to see where they might go?

Just wondering because both are worse versions of Budda Baker to me and might be an option if one of the Mr. Gadget Safeties goes before we can get him. I'm thinking 4th and beyond only because I think there will be better players (not necessarily at the positions of desire) in the 3rd and we will be forced to try to get a guy who might be better than what we have now, even if he is less than what we wanted.

I think the John Johnson you mean is from Boston College. I like John Johnson. I mean, if I am reading the tea leaves correctly and we are looking to get better in man coverages, find a DB that can handle some coverage on TEs/big WRs and play some deep safety as a coverage guy while not absolutely sucking in the run game, then John Johnson fits that bill. He walks down on receivers and plays man coverage against them. He plays zone in the slot as well. He works as a deep safety. He plays faster than he times, solid change of direction. I think the thing I like about him most is he just seems to stay in position as a last line of defense a lot. When RBs break through, he doesn't miss and uses position to force them to the sideline where he can cut them down or usher them out. He will tackle, not in the realm of Peppers or Melinfonwu, but he is solid at it and puts guys on the ground. He doesn't shy away from it. I'm not sure he is elite in man coverage situations but I think he has the natural ability and sticks to guys, locates the ball, and gets his hands on a lot of footballs. He played cornerback as a freshman and sophomore before moving to safety. Since making the move, he has 6 INTs (3 each year). I noticed him while scouting Justin Simmons and one play stuck in my mind, Simmons was the deep safety and Johnson was the slot, motion, Simmons comes down to the slot while Johnson starts working deep from the other side (they switch assignments as the WR motions over) and the QB noticing Johnson is drifting back from the other side, attacks the outside corner deep across the field. He knows he has one on one coverage, but Johnson actually gets there and makes a play on the ball. It was one of the most impressive plays I saw on film last year and this year, he was just so steady and consistent. I'm not sure if a guy like Johnson gets us over the hump against a team like New England, but I think he gets us closer than a box safety would.

Marcus Williams is a wildcard for me. He plays primarily as a deep safety, last line of defense, Ed Reed type. If I needed two safeties and drafted Jabrill Peppers early as my strong, Williams would be my choice to pair with him because he is the deep end single high guy. He doesn't walk down and handle man coverage on receivers, not that I can recall. He has excellent range and ball skills on the back end, don't challenge him deep because he can run and will go up and get it. Very good on the back end and if we draft him, he probably sits until Mike Mitchell leaves and he is your FS from that point on, paired with Davis at strong. But, you don't walk him down in the box and you don't ask him to cover in man situations. You are taking him out of his element. Now, he will tackle the runner, but he grabs and rides guys down, not a big hitter. I've seen plays where he is coming down on guys and another player has him wrapped up and he takes his hands and pushes him down. If that is Jabrill Peppers, he is punishing the dude, maybe causing a fumble because he lights him up. There was a play on 4th down against Arizona, 4th and 1 or 2 and Williams is down in the box, capping the end of the line, ball comes his way, he waits on the runner and wraps him up for the tackle, easy first down, falls back a little with the tackle. If that is Peppers, no doubt in my mind he gets you off the field because Peppers is coming off the snap and cutting the dude down 3 yards deep. Different animals and mindset. Williams is out of his comfort zone there. But, can we use him? I think that while he has been in the 2nd for a while, he is sliding as guys like Josh Jones are climbing. Jones is more versatile and teams like that. So, he could be there in R3 and if that is the case, not opposed to drafting him as a future replacement for Mitchell, but I think you have to understand what he does best and keep him in that fit. I think the Steelers want safeties that can play the Cover-2, deep zone responsibilities so they can mix man/zone under it, so he fits that. Just not sure you see benefits early because I don't want Mitchell walking down in the slot either.

 

[kev4heels]

n/m

 

[keslerclan]

Thanks, TMC. Yes, Boston College, John Johnson. Sorry, my memory is getting worse plus the names are either super similar (Josh Jones, John Johnson) or DeOntravious McKelroy or something impossible to remember.

Nice write up and story about Johnson BUT could he slip to 4 or later? Every year we have a chance at guys who rated higher BUT if you take all the guys graded at round 2-3, they won't fit in 64 picks. I think this year is gonna be even more slippage since there are so many TEs, Ss, CBs and Rush prospects at or near the 1-3 range.