2017 NFL Draft Q&A

[slashsteel]

good reading thank you very much

 

[Ike Kelly]

Good stuff TMC....it's refreshing you and Del giving some great observations.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[TMC]

You know, at corner, I left off some guys like Fabian Moreau, Ahkello Witherspoon, and Damontae Kazee. Then there are guys I'm not pining over that could turn out like Cordrea Tankersly, Desmond King, Brandon Faycson, and Marquise White.

And, while many will back off a guy like Teez Tabor, if I can get him at the right price, I take him. I don't think I'll put him on the edge, but if you are playing man under cover-2 or any cover-2 zone concept, he should be able to handle the slot because he is really good in shorter areas with help over the top. While Stephon Gilmore is more athletic, they are kind of the same guy in some aspects. Both do well when on the line and jump short routes. Both struggle in man on deep coverage, Tabor because of speed and Gilmore because of awareness. Tabor is better in off zone though. So, if people wanted Gilmore as a FA, they should not shy away from Tabor. While he has physical limitations, the actual end results put him in league with Gilmore.

 

[stillwright]

You know, at corner, I left off some guys like Fabian Moreau, Ahkello Witherspoon, and Damontae Kazee. Then there are guys I'm not pining over that could turn out like Cordrea Tankersly, Desmond King, Brandon Faycson, and Marquise White.

And, while many will back off a guy like Teez Tabor, if I can get him at the right price, I take him. I don't think I'll put him on the edge, but if you are playing man under cover-2 or any cover-2 zone concept, he should be able to handle the slot because he is really good in shorter areas with help over the top. While Stephon Gilmore is more athletic, they are kind of the same guy in some aspects. Both do well when on the line and jump short routes. Both struggle in man on deep coverage, Tabor because of speed and Gilmore because of awareness. Tabor is better in off zone though. So, if people wanted Gilmore as a FA, they should not shy away from Tabor. While he has physical limitations, the actual end results put him in league with Gilmore.

What I don't get is we don't have the personal to man up. It seems every team we play against mans up on us on third and short to medium...Every team.,,but we can't do it. This has been a problem for YEARS. Not just last year. So we continue to draft guys that can't man up.....aside from Burns I guess. Why did it take so long? Bring in a mid tier FA. Do something so you can throw a man to man look at teams in certain situations. I honestly think the whole board is tired of bitching about it. As fans we see it as a major issue but our FO and coaching staff obviously doesn't for what ever reason. What's your take TMC?

 

[TMC]

What I don't get is we don't have the personal to man up. It seems every team we play against mans up on us on third and short to medium...Every team.,,but we can't do it. This has been a problem for YEARS. Not just last year. So we continue to draft guys that can't man up.....aside from Burns I guess. Why did it take so long? Bring in a mid tier FA. Do something so you can throw a man to man look at teams in certain situations. I honestly think the whole board is tired of bitching about it. As fans we see it as a major issue but our FO and coaching staff obviously doesn't for what ever reason. What's your take TMC?

LeBeau believed very strongly in zone coverage. The Post-Gazette had an article where they were talking to Carnell Lake about the secondary. Under LeBeau, they could not play rookies because his defenses would have man/zone concepts where a CB was lined up in off coverage, giving a zone look, and depending on the route, he could have to switch to man. Or, they would have to switch players mid-routes, and young players got confused. So, it took them a while to assimilate. Under Butler, that has changed. They are playing more straight zone, more straight man, less complex schemes. Here is the article and a quote:
http://triblive.com/sports/steelers/8950459-74/butler-steelers-defense
"In LeBeau’s fire-zone defensive packages, cornerbacks had to pass receivers off to other corners or safeties in what Lake termed “a man-zone.” It was a scheme veteran corners and safeties worked to perfection, but it was difficult for younger players to assimilate.
“You may be passing your guy to another guy and picking up someone else and that’s where it starts to get tricky — when do I do that, how do I do that, understanding the circumstances I do that. There’s a lot of things involved that goes with that.”

In addition to that, here is what Butler states about the defense prior to 2015: “What we will get this week is stuff that will stress the new defenses that we put in,” Butler said. “We need that stress to be able to coach off of it and correct it.
“As a coach, you have to determine what they can do. If they are making a lot of mental mistakes you have to simplify it a little bit. We are in the process of seeing what we can and can't do.”

Last off season, Jones and Heyward said this:
"He tweaked the defense into things he likes," outside linebacker and 2013 first-rounder Jarvis Jones said last November, via the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review. "We still have many of the old concepts, but (Butler) has simplified things so we can play faster and communicate better."

Defensive end Cam Heyward added: "There were times in the past when we sat more on blocks, and let the linebackers make plays. In [Butler's] defense, we (defensive linemen) have more freedom. ... There are lot more blitzes involved, and there are more opportunities to execute one-on-ones. When we win the one-on-ones, we're a much better, successful team, and that's nothing against Coach LeBeau's defenses."

Tomlin stated this prior to the season: "We're all limited schematically, in terms of what we want to do. I think anybody that's an architect of football schematics, you have what you want to do, a vision of what you want to do, and then you have the reality. And the reality is usually associated with the abilities of the players that you have, the amount of time, or your ability to teach and the way that your opponent stresses you."

So, there has been a significant change since Butler left. I'm not so sure what is taking so long. This is heading into the 3rd season under Butler. I don't consider revamping a defense in 3 years a long time. I don't really disagree with them doing what they did prior to that either because LeBeau had a pretty good system for a long time. But, when he left, they started rebuilding and making changes. That takes time. It isn't some 10-year run for Butler because he wasn't the shot caller on defense, he coached LBers. Since Butler was made DC, they have drafted Golson in the 2nd and Burns/Davis 1/2. Both Burns and Davis played man coverage in college.

Butler changed the why the front four attack. They can 2-gap, don't do it as much. Shazier isn't your big thumping ILB. Davis is more coverage than downhill run stopper. They just have to continue moving towards DBs that are what they need, and I don't think that is finding a pure man corner or a pure zone corner, it is finding a guy that can handle man coverage but is also capable of playing in zones, so Butler can continue to implement multiple defensive schemes, from 3 man fronts to four man fronts, from 4 linebackers to 3 to 2 if needed and corners that can play Cover-1 to Cover-4, man to zone. They want their defense to have the ability to match up to whatever offensive scheme trots out on the field. That is a monumental feat, but with Tuitt, Heyward, Hargrave, Dupree, Shazier, Burns, and Davis, they are a handful of guys away from having a young defense with guys that can do a massive amount of things.

So, I don't agree with most fans because I'm not throwing LeBeau's baggage on Butler's back.

 

[Coach]

Coach hates Pouncey. You're never gonna convince him that he doesn't suck. Wants him cut immediately

I never said he sucks. When healthy, he's very good.

I said he's injury prone. He is.

I said he was replaced by a cheap back up and guy off the street with no effect on the Steelers overall record. That happened...twice.

I said he's an average in-line blocker.

I think he's a punk off the field, tweeting out to a fan to STFU I'm rich and you're not, allegedly attacking a 140-pound man and a woman in a bar ( the video disappeared from the bar ).

Last year, again at their birthday party, they were accused of assault by Riquan James, also known as Ricky Vaquez on social media. The accusation alleged that the Pounceys were using derogatory language about James' sexual orientation. They then, according to James' statements, began punching him. Two women also levied allegations at the Pounceys, one who said Maurkice had punched her in the face when she tried to break up the fight and one who said she was knocked into a table covered in glasses and received a two-inch laceration in her leg. Police investigated the incident, but no charges were officially filed against the Pounceys.

And who can forget his shameless support for a murderer? FREE HERNANDEZ.

After his brother was suspended, he asked the media to lay off him. Sure lay off a bully and a grown man who did wrong.

If that not enough he was at odds with Tomlin when he was tweeting out his injury status. Keep it in the house, please.

A man is partly defined by the company he keeps. And I'll stand by saying the Steelers would be better off using his cap money elsewhere.

 

[Ike Kelly]

TMC, you've mentioned A. Witherspoon a couple times in your comments. Several of the Colorado games Ive watched this year, but now that the draft is allowing player tape to be seen by everyone at any given moment, I see some big time issues with his tackling. Actually, it's more the avoidance of tackling. His coverage instincts and mirroring abilities are tremendous, but the tackling discipline is so awful. Does your tape review show the same? I've been checking on the Colorado corners after Awuzie's name came up as a player to watch. I like Conley a whole lot, but Chidobe is the kid who would be perfect for our DB scheme. he can play anywhere, in man or zone, and no doubt a 1st rounder now. If the pass rushers are gone, and teams reach for 2 or 3 QBs he should be a Steeler.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[TMC]

TMC, you've mentioned A. Witherspoon a couple times in your comments. Several of the Colorado games Ive watched this year, but now that the draft is allowing player tape to be seen by everyone at any given moment, I see some big time issues with his tackling. Actually, it's more the avoidance of tackling. His coverage instincts and mirroring abilities are tremendous, but the tackling discipline is so awful. Does your tape review show the same? I've been checking on the Colorado corners after Awuzie's name came up as a player to watch. I like Conley a whole lot, but Chidobe is the kid who would be perfect for our DB scheme. he can play anywhere, in man or zone, and no doubt a 1st rounder now. If the pass rushers are gone, and teams reach for 2 or 3 QBs he should be a Steeler.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app

When it comes to run support, how do I say this, he prefers to allow others to do the heavy lifting, But, we can find corners that tackle if that is what we are after. They usually play in zone coverage. It is because they are willing to come up and tackle that they find themselves in zones. That, and they usually cannot handle man. When you get outside the top 10 or so corners, you won't be getting guys that do it all. You will be getting guys that are pretty good at one thing and need development in other areas. Witherspoon is a long corner that can get in the face of DBs and play man. He can play some zone too, as long as they don't run his way.

 

[Litos]

I said he was replaced by a cheap back up and guy off the street with no effect on the Steelers overall record. That happened...twice.

I said he's an average in-line blocker.
.

You can keep repeating that like a parrot but it doesn't make it true

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

What player or players would scare you if they were the steelers pick at 30?

For me it would be Tim Williams, Jon Ross, or any QB.

 

[SteelerSask2]

A 1.30 QB tells me the Steelers know something we don't and I still don't think they would take a guy they don't think is close to worthy of low first round high first round.

 

[slashsteel]

What player or players would scare you if they were the steelers pick at 30?

For me it would be Tim Williams, Jon Ross, or any QB.

Tim Williams more because of his run D question marks.
Any QB


I can see those two... not sure if Ross would scare me, with his ability to stretch the field.

 

[TDX27]

The only real player(s) that would scare me in round 1 would be any QB. That means, as mentioned, the team knows something about Ben that we don't. And, I don't even want to start thinking about going through what we did in the 80's and 90's without a franchise QB.

 

[Superman]

Similar reaction to Sean Davis....he opined he wasn't a good player and needed him executed.


Sent from my iPad using Steeler Nation mobile app

corrected that for you

 

[Coach]

The best time to draft a QB is when the opportunity to draft a franchise QB presents itself. Just because you take a QB today does not mean he is worth a ****.

Of course you disagree with the panic part, because you panic.
Panic : a state or feeling of extreme fear that makes someone unable to act or think normally or : a situation that causes many people to become afraid and to rush to do something.

We could have drafted Paxton Lynch last year. If you did not advocate drafting a QB last year, when a guy many felt had franchise characteristics was there, and you advocate drafting a guy like Davis Webb, probably a 4-5 rounder last year, in the 2nd, that is panicking.

As for Ben, no real proof he is at odds with the coaches, only opinion. He continues to sign checks for them when he could have easily forced a change. When he was going through his issues and the talk of trading him arose, he did not ask for them to cut ties. Would have been easy. Did he get married again this year? I thought it was way back in 2011, four years before his signed his last MEGA contract and they handed him $35 million.

So, you think that IF Ben gets hurt, at 34, he will walk away? At that age, any significant injury is probably career ending anyway. You don't heal like you do when you are 20. That is a very astute analysis. Hey, I have one. I bet he walks away when people quit paying him a boatload of money. That is just, so astute.

As for him walking away if they have an early playoff exit, you mean, going out in the first round or worse? Let me ask you something, where would they draft if they got knocked out sooner? Would it be 30th or worse? Since this is considered a bad QB draft, wouldn't logic dictate they could get a better QB then? I mean, higher pick....better talent....nah, draft some turd out of this batch and hope. Could have had Lynch last year instead of Burns. Hell, had interest in Dak Prescott, could have had him instead of Hawkins. Yet, QB wasn't on the radar last year...because of team needs.

That certainly makes a case for best player available doesn't it? And BPA in this draft would likely dictate you don't draft a QB. But, keep swinging at those needs. Panic.

Ben did not say he was thinking about quitting last year, which is why the Steelers didn't do anything for the draft in 2016

This year is different.

Riddle me this.

Why didn't the Steelers load up and win now, with the cap space they had for once?

I think you are confused, as there is a difference between panic and plan, I'm for planning. Panic would happen if Ben walks away and the Steelers have Landry Jones a their top option.

If Ben isn't sure he's coming back, its time to start planning. I'm not saying QB in round one in 2017, but maybe round 2 or 3.

 

[CoolieMan]

drafting a subpar qb just to have another qb option...is not "planning" it is idiotic......

 

[Coach]

I thought I saw a better arm on Kaaya in tape but the combine MPH tests kind of hurt him in my eyes. I thought he threw one of the better deep balls in this draft but you are right about having to have his feet clean. And I guess I would worry with that arm strength moving him from sunny Miami into cold Pittsburgh. This is not the place to play if your game revolves around long deep balls with lots of air under them. I thought I saw a lot of Flacco in his game because that's the kind of offense you will need to develop, but Flacco has a vastly superior arm strength-wise. Flacco's not great under pressure, loses accuracy when throwing off his back foot, et. al.

That's just the nature of QB's sometimes. You sort of have to "see" the offense you have to run to make them successful when they are not elite prospects (and many of these in this class are not). And you really have to buy into that offense 100%. Once they have some success you can bring some new stuff to the table, but that takes time and good coaching.

Like you said, this is not the draft to panic and force a QB earlier than you think. If they throw a 4th or 5th at a guy, so be it. They do that all the time anyway and even if I don't agree with it, I can live with it.

The ONLY possibility of anything more than that to me is if Trabinkski falls to #24. That is Oakland's spot. Before Houston at #25 and Kansas City at #27. If one of your 3rd round picks moves you from #30 to #24, do you pull the trigger on that? I might. Trabinski is the only one with all the tools. And the experience thing can work out with him sitting for two seasons behind Ben.

That's an interesting question. I don't want to chase a QB, but Trabinski might be worth it to me. TMC, would you consider it? Make a call to Oakland if Trabinski is still on the board at #24? I think it's highly unlikely that happens, but we are just throwing out far-fetched ideas on WHEN/IF we would deviate from a normal BPA/need position draft.

I mentioned before Kaaya lacks an arm. He under throws the deep ball, lacks velocity, and has accuracy issues in the intermediate route. Arms are best judged live in the stands. But I do like the MPH radar gun.

 

[TMC]

What player or players would scare you if they were the steelers pick at 30?

For me it would be Tim Williams, Jon Ross, or any QB.

I want no part of Tim Williams. To me, his failed drug tests scream Randy Gregory. We all know how that worked out. I'm not thrilled with any QB. I don't want an ILB either. No OL. Charles Harris, Cordrea Tankersly, Taco Charlton, they kind of make me cringe.

 

[AggieSteel]

If Ben isn't sure he's coming back, its time to start planning. I'm not saying QB in round one in 2017, but maybe round 2 or 3.

What? Why? I assume "planning" means to start grooming Ben's successor. If that's the plan, then why the hell would you wait for round 2 or 3? That makes zero sense dude

I understand the QB talent in this draft is considered weak. But that doesn't mean you let the "top" talent in a weak class slip by and wait and pick up a scrub. If anything, it means you wait until next year and draft Sam ******* Darnold

 

[TMC]

Ben did not say he was thinking about quitting last year, which is why the Steelers didn't do anything for the draft in 2016

This year is different.

Riddle me this.

Why didn't the Steelers load up and win now, with the cap space they had for once?

I think you are confused, as there is a difference between panic and plan, I'm for planning. Panic would happen if Ben walks away and the Steelers have Landry Jones a their top option.

If Ben isn't sure he's coming back, its time to start planning. I'm not saying QB in round one in 2017, but maybe round 2 or 3.

Actually sunshine, if a QB was not on your radar last year, then you were not for "planning" last year. But, Ben comments he is thinking about his future and now you become a master planner. You are panicking.

Why didn't they spend in free agency? Probably because the value versus the talent level didn't match. I would not have paid Gilmore or Bouye $13+ million a season. Not for them. Bouye has the talent, but he has done it one year. One. Kirkpatrick got over $9 million. They drafted WJIII to push/replace him, but WJIII was injured and Pacman is in trouble again. They had to do something, so they overpaid for a turd. That isn't improving. It is just spending money.

I'll wait until I have a shot at a QB worth drafting.

 

[Ike Kelly]

Ben did not say he was thinking about quitting last year, which is why the Steelers didn't do anything for the draft in 2016

This year is different.

Riddle me this.

Why didn't the Steelers load up and win now, with the cap space they had for once?

I think you are confused, as there is a difference between panic and plan, I'm for planning. Panic would happen if Ben walks away and the Steelers have Landry Jones a their top option.

If Ben isn't sure he's coming back, its time to start planning. I'm not saying QB in round one in 2017, but maybe round 2 or 3.

I'm sorry, but Ben's comment about assessing his future was on a radio show shortly after the AFCC. Players are still on the emotional ride after one game away. As a vet of over 10 years, there is usually contemporary thoughts after every year end exit meeting. Add in the fact he has a family with 3 small children it adds to the drama...that well, Ben does on occasion.

Ben won't capitalize on passing the final two 16+ mil year salaries and pay back 15+ in bonus money he hasn't accrued but received. That's poor business and his agent will let him know that. Ben is just being Ben.


Sent from my iPhone using Steeler Nation mobile app

 

[steelpastor]

.

I am really wondering if the whole QB evaluation process this year is really about evaluating the QB evaluation process! This may be a practice run for next year.

In other words... do the evals, ranks the QB's, bring the prospects in that meet the criteria, then rank them again... and THEN make a pick (for internal use only).. THEN watch their play this year in the NFL (for whatever team they are ACTUALLY drafted by). What I am saying is that we don't seem to have a handle on picking QB's. We seem to have an understanding of WR's and OL... but not QB's.

.

 

[deljzc]

I just re-watched Kaaya's Pitt game, West Virginia game and the Notre Dame game in the rain and I still like his tape a lot. I mean a lot better than you guys are putting him down as. I see plenty of arm strength. I think he looks off plays well for a young guy (not perfect, but he normally starts by looking down the field middle and doesn't give away the side of the field his primary read is at right away). I think his timing over the middle is decent. He has very good touch on balls with air under them. Has a nice feel to getting it over the linebacker level.

Yes, he needs a clean pocket. Early in the West Virginia game the pressure was getting to him and he made some back throws. And I agree he could turn into a Checkdown Charlie type player. But I also see a QB that understands spreading it out to different receivers. I see a guy who can play within himself and learn to protect the ball and live to fight another day.

I guess I'm alone, but I like him a lot better than Mahomes, who I don't want to touch with a 10' pole.

 

[AggieSteel]

I just re-watched Kaaya's Pitt game, West Virginia game and the Notre Dame game in the rain and I still like his tape a lot. I mean a lot better than you guys are putting him down as. I see plenty of arm strength. I think he looks off plays well for a young guy (not perfect, but he normally starts by looking down the field middle and doesn't give away the side of the field his primary read is at right away). I think his timing over the middle is decent. He has very good touch on balls with air under them. Has a nice feel to getting it over the linebacker level.

Yes, he needs a clean pocket. Early in the West Virginia game the pressure was getting to him and he made some back throws. And I agree he could turn into a Checkdown Charlie type player. But I also see a QB that understands spreading it out to different receivers. I see a guy who can play within himself and learn to protect the ball and live to fight another day.

I guess I'm alone, but I like him a lot better than Mahomes, who I don't want to touch with a 10' pole.

I don't spend time with the tape like you do, only go by the games I've watched as a college football fan, but I tend to agree with your overall evaluation of Kaaya. I think he'll be a good pro and better than what he's being given credit for. But that being said, I don't want to touch any of these guys coming out this year. Kizer's got the tools but is inconsistent and often makes poor decisions. Trubisky is a one year wonder, and wasn't even that wonderful. I don't trust gimmick offense QBs so Mahomes has a lot to prove even though he is a great athlete. Watson has a great overall skill set and intangibles and could be a Dak-like player but I have real questions about his arm talent - accuracy and strength both. There are just so many question marks. Truthfully Watson is the one I'd be most comfortable with, or maybe even that kid from Virginia Tech no one is talking about, but I just.. can't see putting the future of the franchise into the hands of any of the kids in this draft.

 

[Coach]

What? Why? I assume "planning" means to start grooming Ben's successor. If that's the plan, then why the hell would you wait for round 2 or 3? That makes zero sense dude

I understand the QB talent in this draft is considered weak. But that doesn't mean you let the "top" talent in a weak class slip by and wait and pick up a scrub. If anything, it means you wait until next year and draft Sam ******* Darnold

I would say this QB class is more unproven, there are a few talent players.

Drew Brees, Russel Wilson, Andy Dalton, and Dak Prescott are recently examples of QB's taken in rounds 2-4. I am for drafting such a QB, and like Webb in round two or three.

But ask yourself this, if Ben retires after this season, are the Steelers prepared? We have too much talent to go less than 9-7, so we'll never get a top 10 pick.