Archers 40 doesn't translate

[Wingman]

Or perhaps their coaching staff is able to design a play and find ways to get DT the ball? I mean, you have the #2 Ranked Running back in the league and the #3 WR in the league and you cant find a way to punch the ball into the End Zone consistantly. The Steelers are playing like **** becasue they are being coached like ****. Archer included.

Don't forget over the last eight years have drafted like **** most of the time, there are a few exceptions but over all drafts have been looking poor. Although I had hope for this years bunch to be better and contribute more.

 

[FordFairLane]

Here actually are the list of players doing well after the 97th pick.

TJ Carrie CB Okaland 219th overall pick
He has 13 tackles, 1 tfl, 1 pd, and 1 int.
At the 219th pick we actually had 5 opportunities to take him.

Walt Aikens CB Miami 125th overall pick
He has 2 tackles 1 pd and 1 int
We again could have drafted him but drafted Bryant.

EJ Gaines CB St. Louis 188th overall pick
12 tackles 1 FR, 1 tfl, 4 PD, and 1 int
The funny part is I wanted him instead of Richardson or Johnson. I saw how he handled Evans against Texas A&M.

Chris McCain LB Miami UDFA
1 tackle 1 sack

Telvin Smith LB Jax 144th overall pick
18 tackles 1 sack
Again we could have taken him before Bryant.

So I guess my point is these rookies taken after Archer could have still been had and are also NOT blowing up the league.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

A couple of those CB's would have been nice, but hey we've got Brice Harper who came over from baseball so we're alright.

 

[FordFairLane]

A couple of those CB's would have been nice, but hey we've got Brice Harper who came over from baseball so we're alright.

The funny part is we could still have Archer and Bryant but instead of Richardson took EJ Gaines and instead of Zumwalt took TJ Carrie and have a couple of those guys. But regardless people will still complain and say we should not have drafted Archer because that was the pick we "could" have drafted blah ******* blah!

 

[insaniti]

Oh, so the expectations are different... So do tell what are the expectations of an end of the third round 97th overall pick which is behind a starter in Bell and a free agent acqusition in Blount vs a mid second round pick 46th overall and 51 spots ahead of Archer who has OLD *** BRETT KEISEL AND FAT *** CAM THOMAS in front of him? Obviously, Archer in your eyes has fallen short of expectations so please do tell HOW Tuitt has exceeded his? Oh, wait in his ONE ASSISTED TACKLE he has shown "potential" while Archer in his 5 touches has proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he is surely a bust and wasted pick.

So please tell me how Tuitt has shown potential and Archer has not? Please, I really want to hear this one!
He looks slow? You are blind or retarded aren't you? He has not busted a long gain but when he has the ball you can see he is faster than the guys out there. Yes, in his FIVE touches he has not had a huge gainer but if you can't see the potential is there then there is no hope because WHEN he does, and yes I believe he will, I am 100% sure you will have an excuse to how it wasn't a credit to him but because of something the defense did or a great block by someone. I already can hear the excuses now.

And again WHAT HAS TUITT FLASHED????????? One ASSISTED TACKLE! Oh, DE's aren't supposed to make plays they stand there and look stupid der der der.

I could not find the link I posted earlier which took into consideration all the NFL draft but this chart shows since 1988+ since the 7 round draft was introduced.
View attachment 605

Since 1988 3rd rounders that have started are at 14.4% so a little better than before 1988.

ONE FIVE TOUCHES!!!


So our line is doing ****** and Tuitt is still not starting and barely even playing and that proves your point? I mean Archer only has the 2nd leading rusher in the NFL and Blount who is averaging 6.4 ypc in front of him. But yes, they should try to get Archer the ball more because those two aren't getting it done.


We have established you are either blind or retarded.
Show me a pick AFTER Archer who is doing more at CB or OLB.

I love how I've pointed out SEVERAL times what I see in Tuitt, and you're still obsessed with the one assisted tackle stat. I can't help you anymore then I already have. You've obviously failed to see the point in any of my posts. I don't know how much clearer I could make it.

Archer is also listed as a WR/RB, he was never going to get a ton of carries because of Bell and Blount, but use that as an excuse FOR him, and not as an excuse as to why he should never have been drafted to begin with... makes PERFECT sense. You're making most of my arguments about Archer for me, you're just so worked up that you can't even see it. I'm glad you have faith that he is going to bust one open, and that ONE play is going to validate his entire career, even if it is just that ONE play.

But as of RIGHT NOW, from what I've seen in the REGULAR season, he looks hesitant, slow, unsure, and forcing the ball to him (even if it's just six times) seems like such a waste with the real proven talent we have on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how much more clear I can make that point for you.

As for players picked after or should have picked, I already addressed that in my last post, so please tell me how blind I am again when you can't even see things I've already answered. Now count to ten, take a deep breath, relax. Everything is going to be ok.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I could see it if they used him as a kick returner (and he was good at it) but no, they keep trotting AB out there.

 

[FordFairLane]

I love how I've pointed out SEVERAL times what I see in Tuitt, and you're still obsessed with the one assisted tackle stat. I can't help you anymore then I already have. You've obviously failed to see the point in any of my posts. I don't know how much clearer I could make it.

Oh, yeah production only counts for RB's and DE's sit there with their thumbs up their ***** not tackling people. Do you see how STUPID your argument is?

Archer is also listed as a WR/RB, he was never going to get a ton of carries because of Bell and Blount, but use that as an excuse FOR him, and not as an excuse as to why he should never have been drafted to begin with... makes PERFECT sense. You're making most of my arguments about Archer for me, you're just so worked up that you can't even see it. I'm glad you have faith that he is going to bust one open, and that ONE play is going to validate his entire career, even if it is just that ONE play.

As I showed you BEFORE third round picks or later generally DON'T get a ton of production. You for some reason think our third round pick if it wasn't Archer would be doing more when in reality where everyone else lives a different pick would likely be getting LESS production.

But as of RIGHT NOW, from what I've seen in the REGULAR season, he looks hesitant, slow, unsure, and forcing the ball to him (even if it's just six times) seems like such a waste with the real proven talent we have on the offensive side of the ball. I don't know how much more clear I can make that point for you.

Yes, you are correct Archer is slow and everyone else is blind. :/

As for players picked after or should have picked, I already addressed that in my last post, so please tell me how blind I am again when you can't even see things I've already answered. Now count to ten, take a deep breath, relax. Everything is going to be ok.

Oh, so one of the guys I listed or someone I didn't write about would have been great if the Steelers would have drafted him. Yeah, I bet you are right and someone might have had 1 assisted tackle by now. Damn, you keep showing me up dude. You must have been on the debate team!

 

[Badcat]

Yeah Ron...and lets run with a Wedge formation...because that always works.

In the history of this game it's unreal just how pathetically under developed special teams are. There are a few trick plays here and there but there are no real schemes out there. You have the front five drop back a little and half assed block someone, the middle guys form a quasi wall of fat bodies and there are two guys on the 5 yard line ready to return the ball. yawn.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

Using statistics, especially tackles, in an argument for the performance of a 3-4 DE is laughable.

Comparing an offensive rookie to a defensive rookie on the Steelers is even more laughable. We all know that Steeler defenders very rarely start as rookies.

Furthermore, Tuitt and Archer are not comparable in any way. Tuitt is an expected future starter, a player that likely would've been a first rounder without the injury history. Archer is a gimmick player whose ceiling projection was the 3rd round.

Archer has played 24 snaps and has had 5 touches (2 Rush/3Rec) for 15 yards (6/9). Tuitt has played 49 snaps. If you haven't been able to see Tuitt's potential, you haven't been paying attention. He holds the point of attack, moves down the line well, he caused a sack last week that Worilds got credit for, et cetera. Not comparable to Archer at all.

The jury is still out on both players, but the comparison and your argument regarding the assist is shortsighted and ridiculous.

 

[FordFairLane]

Using statistics, especially tackles, in an argument for the performance of a 3-4 DE is laughable.

Comparing an offensive rookie to a defensive rookie on the Steelers is even more laughable. We all know that Steeler defenders very rarely start as rookies.

Oh, so using statistical data relevant to ones production at their position is laughable. Or is it only relative when you are arguing against Archer? Hmmmm. You know what this moronic statement reminds me of? People who say they aren't good test takers. Oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you know? Yeah, by your logic I would be a good DE because I probably would have gotten in on a tackle by now.

My point is for BOTH is neither have done squat and as of right now there is a too small of a sample size to determine if they are any good. Hopefully, they both will end the season better than they started.

Furthermore, Tuitt and Archer are not comparable in any way. Tuitt is an expected future starter, a player that likely would've been a first rounder without the injury history. Archer is a gimmick player whose ceiling projection was the 3rd round.

Hey, I would love it if Tuitt was the starter but the facts are he isn't and is barely getting in on the rotation when Old Man Keisel and Herpes McGee are the only two standing in his way. Buy, yeah lets give him a pass on production because??? Still waiting for a logical excuse!

Archer has played 24 snaps and has had 5 touches (2 Rush/3Rec) for 15 yards (6/9). Tuitt has played 49 snaps. If you haven't been able to see Tuitt's potential, you haven't been paying attention. He holds the point of attack, moves down the line well, he caused a sack last week that Worilds got credit for, et cetera. Not comparable to Archer at all.

The jury is still out on both players, but the comparison and your argument regarding the assist is shortsighted and ridiculous.

OMFG!!!! So I am supposed to see potential in Tuitt because??? But I am supposed to see Archer is a bust because??? See this is where you lose everyone with an IQ above 60. You cannot say you see great potential in Tuitt and say his stats don't matter BUT state in the very same sentence try to use stats to prove Archer is a bust. You can't have it both ways either you stick with your beliefs that stats are not important at this time for BOTH players or you stick with stats are important and neither are living up to their draft status. Can't have it both ways dude.

 

[insaniti]

Oh, yeah production only counts for RB's and DE's sit there with their thumbs up their ***** not tackling people. Do you see how STUPID your argument is?
As I showed you BEFORE third round picks or later generally DON'T get a ton of production. You for some reason think our third round pick if it wasn't Archer would be doing more when in reality where everyone else lives a different pick would likely be getting LESS production.
Yes, you are correct Archer is slow and everyone else is blind. :/


Oh, so one of the guys I listed or someone I didn't write about would have been great if the Steelers would have drafted him. Yeah, I bet you are right and someone might have had 1 assisted tackle by now. Damn, you keep showing me up dude. You must have been on the debate team!

The only one spouting off about production IS YOU! Everything else I've stated is how they look on the field against other players. It's been pointed out by more then just myself how 3-4 DE's jobs are to hold the point of attack, take up blockers, and free up the linebackers...NOT MAKE TACKLES, so using tackles as a point of emphasis is stupid. That's on you man, if YOU can't grasp that, and continue to call everyone who thinks as such blind retards, I just really don't see help for you.

As for the players we didn't draft, could have drafted...AGAIN GO LOOK AT WHAT I WROTE. You're clearly not seeing something, or seeing something that just isn't there.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

Oh, so using statistical data relevant to ones production at their position is laughable. Or is it only relative when you are arguing against Archer? Hmmmm. You know what this moronic statement reminds me of? People who say they aren't good test takers. Oh, so you struggle with the part where we find out what you know? Yeah, by your logic I would be a good DE because I probably would have gotten in on a tackle by now.

-I am a huge proponent of statistics. I am an even larger proponent of knowing how they apply and utilizing them logically. We shouldn't have to keep explaining to you how a 5 Technique 3-4 DE's job is not to accrue tackles and statistics, but to hold gap integrity, take blockers, and free up our slim/quick ILBs.

My point is for BOTH is neither have done squat and as of right now there is a too small of a sample size to determine if they are any good. Hopefully, they both will end the season better than they started.

-No, MY point is that neither have done anything. Can you not read? Three separate posts across multiple pages:

The jury is still out on both players, but the comparison and your argument regarding the assist is shortsighted and ridiculous.

The point is that our rookies have always been underused, even players like Antonio Brown and Markus Wheaton, who both averaged 10 YPC as rookies. What the hell do you expect from a player that came into this week with 18 snaps and 2 touches under his belt?

Archer was a **** pick, that I agree with. What I fail to understand is why you're expecting him to contribute in any manner considering the production of past, non-**** rookies.

Indeed. I was one of the harsher critics of the pick. I ******* LOATHED it. I don't think he will amount to anything, but I'm not about to definitively say that he's a bust after 5 touches in his rookie season like JJ_Steel.

Hey, I would love it if Tuitt was the starter but the facts are he isn't and is barely getting in on the rotation when Old Man Keisel and Herpes McGee are the only two standing in his way. Buy, yeah lets give him a pass on production because??? Still waiting for a logical excuse!

-Once again, production for 3-4 DEs cannot be measured in statistics, seeing as there are no stats telling how often a player holds the point of attack, commands or splits a double team, et cetera. I don't expect this to worm its way into your addled brain in a way that's comprehensible for you, though.

Also, I've given Archer a pass on his production. Next.

OMFG!!!! So I am supposed to see potential in Tuitt because??? But I am supposed to see Archer is a bust because??? See this is where you lose everyone with an IQ above 60.

-You're supposed to see potential in Tuitt because you have eyes and he's being afforded ~11 snaps a game, maybe? Because you have been presented the facts regarding his draft stock?

-I never said Archer is a bust. Your argument is unraveling!

You cannot say you see great potential in Tuitt and say his stats don't matter BUT state in the very same sentence try to use stats to prove Archer is a bust.

-Yes, I can see potential in Tuitt, because tackles are not a key component in a 5 Technique's success. Broken record alert.

-Nope, never said Archer was a bust. I've actually been defending his production in this very thread and have referenced Wheaton and Brown each having paltry rookie seasons. Nice try, though?

You can't have it both ways either you stick with your beliefs that stats are not important at this time for BOTH players or you stick with stats are important and neither are living up to their draft status. Can't have it both ways dude.

-Do I really need to repeat myself again? I'd hope not, at this point.

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Difference between Tuitt and Archer is that Tuitt is expected to be a starter for years to come and he has a lot to learn.

Archer is physically incapable of being a starting NFL RB. He will always just be a role player. Therefore, he can see the field much faster because they can design specific plays for him.

I'm sure they could send Tuitt out there on passi g downs and tell him to just get the QB and he'd be able to perform that one task. But he's being groomed for more than that. Archer is not.

Sure, archer will get better as he learns more, but he will still just be a limited role player, and his best skill, Kick Returns, is nearly extinct in the NFL.

 

[FordFairLane]

The only one spouting off about production IS YOU! Everything else I've stated is how they look on the field against other players.

Yeah, I don't see defenses keying on Archer. He had a bubble screen/swing pass type play against Jax where he was wide open. The CB came up from his zone and dropped him after a 5 yard gain. It was a case of a "fast" player not being able to shake a guy in the open field. Anyone of our WR's or RB could have made that play, some would have got more yards (Brown, Bell, Blount).

Three games played, 2 rushes for 6 yards, 3 receptions for 9 yards on 4 targets. 17 snaps on offense 13 on special teams (believe it or not, he's on the punt return team as a blocker)

here's a site for you:

http://www.rotowire.com/football/player.htm?id=9474

snaps for Jax game hasn't bene updated yet

He's actually played more, they haven't updated his snaps for the Jags game, but you can add at least 3 snaps to his total (he had 1 rush and 2 rec against Jax).

Yep, not a single mention of a stat from you. Wow, got me again!

It's been pointed out by more then just myself how 3-4 DE's jobs are to hold the point of attack, take up blockers, and free up the linebackers...NOT MAKE TACKLES, so using tackles as a point of emphasis is stupid. That's on you man, if YOU can't grasp that, and continue to call everyone who thinks as such blind retards, I just really don't see help for you.

Yeah, I know the job of the 34 DE is to stand around with a thumb up their *** and definitely not to make a tackle. Holy, crap I don't think the defense could function correctly if a DE actually made a tackle. My favorite Aaron Smith, Ray Seals, Brett Keisel moments are when they are standing their not making tackles because of course on defense tackles are bad if the DE makes them and they better not get any.

 

[Vader]

Difference between Tuitt and Archer is that Tuitt is expected to be a starter for years to come and he has a lot to learn.

Archer is physically incapable of being a starting NFL RB. He will always just be a role player. Therefore, he can see the field much faster because they can design specific plays for him.

I'm sure they could send Tuitt out there on passi g downs and tell him to just get the QB and he'd be able to perform that one task. But he's being groomed for more than that. Archer is not.

Sure, archer will get better as he learns more, but he will still just be a limited role player, and his best skill, Kick Returns, is nearly extinct in the NFL.

This is absolutely correct. Archer at his best is a part time 5 touches a game player. Speed is highly over rated in the NFL. The Raiders have spent the better part of a decade drafting speed at almost every position. And they suck. The Steelers went to 3 SBs with speed demons like Ward, Wilson, Randle EL, and Washington. Only Holmes really had any speed at all. I'm not calling Archer a bust. I just didn't like the pick because of his injury history, limited size (can't break tackles), and because he has no position. Doesn't mean he can't be used and won't have an impact on any games. I just rather draft a guy that has more upside and the ability to start long term. The Steelers didn't have the luxury of drafting a part time role player.

 

[insaniti]

Yep, not a single mention of a stat from you. Wow, got me again!


Yeah, I know the job of the 34 DE is to stand around with a thumb up their *** and definitely not to make a tackle. Holy, crap I don't think the defense could function correctly if a DE actually made a tackle. My favorite Aaron Smith, Ray Seals, Brett Keisel moments are when they are standing their not making tackles because of course on defense tackles are bad if the DE makes them and they better not get any.

Where's the post I was responding to? Someone asked how many touches per offensive snaps he had, I searched and found the answer for him. Then posted the site. It's cool tho. Also, where am I pointing out stats in that first post? I was simply stating that he was wide open and couldn't make the CB miss, and was arm tackled by someone not much bigger than him. Keep grasping

 

[t-man]

Yeah, they were like, super slow.
Holmes 40 Time: 4.38
Hines Ward. 4.57
Randle El 4.49
Washington 4.55
Wilson 4.41

Now, if these guys can put it together on the field, we have currently.

AB- 4.47
Wheaton- 4.40
Justin Brown - 4.60
Lance Moore - 4.55
DHB- 4.3
Archer- 4.26

Now, call me crazy, but if you put AB, DHB, Archer, and Wheaton on the field at the same time, and have Bell in as a dumpoff, list me a group of CB's in the league that are going to cover that group for more than a few seconds. We haven't seen them actually go areal assault this year, but should they decide to, it could blow a game out, fast, as long as our oline can give ben time. Now, can DHB and Archer get open? Well, that is what remains to be seen.

Joe

 

[insaniti]

DHB has no issues getting open, it's catching the ball that's always been his problem. Too bad too, from all accounts he's a hard worker, has a positive attitude, and gets rave reviews as a team mate and team player (always willing to do whatever he's asked). Those are the guys that are easy to cheer for.

 

[Zack_of_Steel]

Yep, not a single mention of a stat from you. Wow, got me again!


Yeah, I know the job of the 34 DE is to stand around with a thumb up their *** and definitely not to make a tackle. Holy, crap I don't think the defense could function correctly if a DE actually made a tackle. My favorite Aaron Smith, Ray Seals, Brett Keisel moments are when they are standing their not making tackles because of course on defense tackles are bad if the DE makes them and they better not get any.

Way to sidestep my post refuting your inane crapfest.

 

[JJ_Steel]

Like you sidestepped my post refuting your inane comment that Travis Kelce, with the whopping 20 catches in his 2 year career is great while our Markus Wheaton with 26 catches over the same period is a bust

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Like you sidestepped my post refuting your inane comment that Travis Kelce, with the whopping 20 catches in his 2 year career is great while our Markus Wheaton with 26 catches over the same period is a bust

Wheaton is not a bust but Kelce is starting to look like a stud.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Yeah, they were like, super slow.
Holmes 40 Time: 4.38
Hines Ward. 4.57
Randle El 4.49
Washington 4.55
Wilson 4.41

Hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard, or so a wise man once said.

 

[t-man]

Hard work beats talent that doesn't work hard, or so a wise man once said.

Completely agree. Hopefully Dri works hard. Looks like the light is coming on for Wheaton, we know Moore can do it, as he showed with the Saints, and from what I've read DHB is a hard worker with hands of stone.

 

[F83]

We should of taken a cb instead of archer if they wanted him so badly they should then taken a cb like McGill, baptise, desir and traded our 4th and the 6the took the ol kid to move up in the 4th then taken street over Bryant both very raw or Jared abbrinis.
We had so many needs and they treated this pick like a luxury pick.

 

[Steel Ballin]

another blistering performance....what an incredible weapon!!!!!!!!!