Are top NFL Centers really worth 10 Mil/yr?

[Turd Ferguson]

Pay Pouncey. The better the guys are around him the better we will be able to utilize Pouncey's full potential.

I think his full potential was an over-inflated rookie year grade and season ending injuries. Shop him.

 

[FordFairLane]

I doubt you get Heyward for under $6M a season. The Steelers have until May 3rd to make a decision on Heyward. They can either allow him to play this season and be an impending free agent next year or exercise the option on him for 2015, which is estimated to come in @$8.4M for defensive ends.

I would think if you want Heyward to sign, your starting point would be 5 years, $30-33M.

I'd much rather pay Heyward vs Pouncey but feel the steelers are at a cross roads. Heyward had 10 very good games, but do you pay 6 million with probably 15 guaranteed for ten games? I think if you throw 6 years. 30 million with 12 guaranteed prior to the start of the season a guy making 980k probably signs it. If not I make him play for his salary, prove last year wasn't a fluke, and extend/tag him next year. If I pony up cash this year in guarantees I want the discount rate.

 

[Vader]

I'd much rather pay Heyward vs Pouncey but feel the steelers are at a cross roads. Heyward had 10 very good games, but do you pay 6 million with probably 15 guaranteed for ten games? I think if you throw 6 years. 30 million with 12 guaranteed prior to the start of the season a guy making 980k probably signs it. If not I make him play for his salary, prove last year wasn't a fluke, and extend/tag him next year. If I pony up cash this year in guarantees I want the discount rate.

Hell they are risking paying Worilds over $9 million for 8 games and an injury to close out the season.

 

[FordFairLane]

Hell they are risking paying Worilds over $9 million for 8 games and an injury to close out the season.

I wouldn't of handled that the same way either. If you extend now he gets that guanteed upfront money and increase in pay. If not and he gets hurt or has a bad season he won't be paid like this. It's one in the hand is worth two in the bush. Maybe he is willing to risk it... maybe not.

 

[TMC]

I'd much rather pay Heyward vs Pouncey but feel the steelers are at a cross roads. Heyward had 10 very good games, but do you pay 6 million with probably 15 guaranteed for ten games? I think if you throw 6 years. 30 million with 12 guaranteed prior to the start of the season a guy making 980k probably signs it. If not I make him play for his salary, prove last year wasn't a fluke, and extend/tag him next year. If I pony up cash this year in guarantees I want the discount rate.

Yeah, maybe, if that was an option, but it is not. The Steelers have to make a decision on Heyward by May 3rd. If they pick up his option, then he plays this season for 980k with a guaranteed payday of $8.4M (it is guaranteed until the new seasons starts). Or, you do not pick up his option meaning he can play for 980k and force you to tag him or hit the market.

Sorry, not much leverage there. I think you have to pick him up and then you are negotiating with a guy slated to make $9.4M for 2 years and if you fail to extend him this offseason, his price probably goes up.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

Pay Pouncey. The better the guys are around him the better we will be able to utilize Pouncey's full potential.

This.

We've had a terrible line for almost a decade now... No point letting the best player walk away. I have no problem with the guys in the trenches (pouncey, Heyward) being some of the highest paid on the team

 

[steelpastor]

.

Consider this... Mack is 28... Pouncey is 24. I want Pouncey here... being coached by Munchak. Get the deal done because the new money after next year... TV money is going to change the landscape AGAIN. Better to sign them both before the cap takes a leap next time around. Does anyone wonder WHY it is that Mack has a two-year out in his contract? Even at 30, he will make more than the 8 mil a year of this current contract.

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[Steel Ballin]

Browns matched the Jags offer.

 

[TMC]

Munchak is a ZBS guy. Pouncey fits the ZBS. DeCastro fits a ZBS scheme (I think he can fit any). Beachum could play in a ZBS. Gilbert might can play in a ZBS, doubt it though. Do not see Adams or Foster as ZB guys.

If the Steelers plan on going to a ZBS and Munchak is the guy, almost have to keep one of the top 2 guys capable of zone blocking. When Velasco came in, they had already scrapped the half-hearted attempt at going ZBS.

 

[FordFairLane]

Yeah, maybe, if that was an option, but it is not. The Steelers have to make a decision on Heyward by May 3rd. If they pick up his option, then he plays this season for 980k with a guaranteed payday of $8.4M (it is guaranteed until the new seasons starts). Or, you do not pick up his option meaning he can play for 980k and force you to tag him or hit the market.

Sorry, not much leverage there. I think you have to pick him up and then you are negotiating with a guy slated to make $9.4M for 2 years and if you fail to extend him this offseason, his price probably goes up.

I forgot about the 5th year option. Yeah, exercise it and maybe start some negotiations with the Heyward camp to see what they want. If they want too much let him play out this year and kind of use the option as an early and cheaper franchise tag. This will give the steelers at least one more season to see what he can do.

 

[keslerclan]

Regarding Pouncey, the question is...is he worth Alex Mack money. Mack is guaranteed to receive 2yr/18mil and could end up 3/26 or 5/42. I don't know if they will go that far to sign him (depending on what Munch can do w him/Wallace or whomever).

 

[F83]

Heyward is a must 6 years 38 million 7 mill SB

 

[F83]

Beachum surely can play zone, its guys like Foster and Gilbert that are misfits.
If Adams starts at LT then play Beachum at LG and get Gilbert to lose wieght.

 

[TDX27]

Pouncey came out of college and looked good. He made the pro-bowl and maybe shouldn't have. Either way, he has not gotten better since he was a rookie. He has gotten worse. If he wants even $8 million a year, let him walk. He wasn't very good two years ago and he didn't look good last year before his injury. Now, he probably will come into this season (being a contract year) and play well but he has not earned $10 million a year or even $8 million a year. If the Steelers have plans to keep him, I'd offer him something now coming off the injury - maybe in the $6-7 million a year range. Velasco stepped in and played better than Pouncey did over the past year and a half.

 

[Vader]

Pouncey came out of college and looked good. He made the pro-bowl and maybe shouldn't have. Either way, he has not gotten better since he was a rookie. He has gotten worse. If he wants even $8 million a year, let him walk. He wasn't very good two years ago and he didn't look good last year before his injury. Now, he probably will come into this season (being a contract year) and play well but he has not earned $10 million a year or even $8 million a year. If the Steelers have plans to keep him, I'd offer him something now coming off the injury - maybe in the $6-7 million a year range. Velasco stepped in and played better than Pouncey did over the past year and a half.

I don't remember how Pouncey graded out the past 3 years. I just know it looks bad when a guy is sitting in church one week and comes in and seems to play just as well as you the next week. Add to that I don't like the vibe I'm getting from the Miami connection. It isn't just the hat. It just appears that he and his brother are quite thuggish. I don't want that on the team. Trade his *** or let him walk.

 

[steelhurt]

I've felt this way since his last injury that they should shop him possibly to Miami since that's where he'll sign anyway when he becomes a F/A. You know they want to reunite the brothers in Miami. Wallace and Velasquez played just as well as Pouncey for a lot less money. I was hoping they would move him before this draft for at least a no 2 pick and a performance pick in 2015. Move him now or lose him for another compensatory pick because that's what is going to happen. He will want Mack money and he's not worth it.

 

[Drink IRON City]

The consensus is, pay me more than I am worth. That's human nature, a lot of people want more, than their true value. We are not even sure what Pouncy is asking. I say, fit into our budget, 5-6 mill / yr, incentives for playing time. Solves the pay for injury issue and helps with cap space. If not, trade for pick (s).


Salute the nation

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I've felt this way since his last injury that they should shop him possibly to Miami since that's where he'll sign anyway when he becomes a F/A. You know they want to reunite the brothers in Miami. Wallace and Velasquez played just as well as Pouncey for a lot less money. I was hoping they would move him before this draft for at least a no 2 pick and a performance pick in 2015. Move him now or lose him for another compensatory pick because that's what is going to happen. He will want Mack money and he's not worth it.

Exactly. Let him walk and take the comp pick when his contract is up. He gets hurt too often anyway and at the worst possible times. Yeah I know they weren't his fault but some people just have bad luck.

 

[F83]

sign Valasco prior to camp work him out if Pouncey agent wants to much,

 

[south dakota STEEL]

I honestly thought that the line played better and more in sync with Valesco than with Pouncey. Forgive me if I may be wrong on this, but I remembered reading in that local Pittsburgh paper about Valesco how he had taken DeCastro and Foster and was teaching them technique and how to read each other.

Yep. They did. Great post.

 

[TDX27]

If they sign Velasco, they better let him compete against Pouncey for the starting position. Pouncey is in a contract year and will probably play well but he isn't worth the big money right now. He has gotten worse since his first year when he should have been getting better. Make him compete and earn the spot.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

Ugh. Steelers fans say they're tired of watching mediocrity on the field and that Tomlin can't draft, then want to throw away a top 10 center in the league for nothing because his replacements are "good enough". Sickening.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

No, I want to throw him away because he's hurt half the friggen' time.

 

[Vader]

Ugh. Steelers fans say they're tired of watching mediocrity on the field and that Tomlin can't draft, then want to throw away a top 10 center in the league for nothing because his replacements are "good enough". Sickening.

No, keeping him would be "good enough". Pouncey isn't some dominant center like Dawson. He's not worth that type of money. Just like Wallace was one of the best WRs in the league.. did you want to pay him? And Pouncey has been hurt every year. I know it isn't his fault but he's still been hurt. Then you add the thug **** hat etc... I'd rather play the guy that is cheaper and played just as well.

 

[DeaconKnowledge]

No, keeping him would be "good enough". Pouncey isn't some dominant center like Dawson. He's not worth that type of money. Just like Wallace was one of the best WRs in the league.. did you want to pay him? And Pouncey has been hurt every year. I know it isn't his fault but he's still been hurt. Then you add the thug **** hat etc... I'd rather play the guy that is cheaper and played just as well.

What are you basing this on exactly? I see that thrown around a lot "Velasco was just as good" "Wallace was just as good." Care to quantify that? The most solid argument i've seen is "I haven't noticed a change". IF there was no noticeable change, why doesn't Hartwig still have a job?

I can give you one tangible difference - neither guy, Velasco or Wallace, was able to consistently win at the point of attack. At best they held their linemen while Bell followed the play (which was often away from center to compensate) but neither guy manipulated their man with regularity. Velasco is a worker - he's a smart, high effort guy who follows direction immensely well, but he's not half the athlete Pouncey is. Wallace is a grinder, but he's not as smart as Pouncey is. Neither guy has the hands Pouncey does either - dude slaps D linemen off him like a sumo.

The character stuff I get to a degree. Shy of the hat incident Maurkice hasn't been implicated in anything (that I know of, please feel free to correct me) so in that regard I think talking about character is a bit heavy handed. Pouncey has also been flanked by middling talent at best (Foster) and Rockheads at worst (Kemoeatu) his whole career up to this point.

edit: Hereis a highlight video of Le'Veon Bell's 2013 season, Lot of passing downs in this video, but most of the runs in here are off tackle. Velasco was often sealed off before he could get his hands on the defenders, forcing Bell to the outside. Wallace gets brutalized to before facing the awful Packers defense (who has zero beef up front.)

That's not Pouncey. Pouncey can (and has) moved guys. It was the trash beside him that often missed their assignments and allowed free rushers, or let their man collapse the middle.