Are top NFL Centers really worth 10 Mil/yr?

[Bigappleyinzer]

So we have established there are some here that want to realistically try and lock Pouncey up now at $8 million/season. Good. I actually think the Steelers front office is in your position, although maybe the Mack deal did screw up their offer structure by a couple million in guarantees.

I think if we let him play and FRANCHISE tag him next year, you have to sign him to more than $8 million per season and guarantee him what Mack got in 2015.

So you could get him for $24 million from 2014 to 2016.

OR there is an option of paying him $4.2 million now
Then $26-$27 million guaranteed from 2015-2017.

Would those in favor of signing Pouncey now consider waiting this season and use the franchise tag on him?

Is that an option?

The second option seems to be the cheaper value and much longer. I would be up for that.

4.2mm 2014

27mm spread throughout 2015,16,17

 

[F83]

bringing Valasco into camp to push Pouncey and we can try Walllace at LG, Foster is subpar and to slow and has bad footwork, with a real commitment going to the zone a starting unit of
Beachum Wallace Foster DeCastro Gilbert/Adams would give us the quickest ol we have had since 05 and 2 quick interior ol who can pull either way.

 

[keslerclan]

So the consensus is probably "Don't do anything" with his contract and we'll revisit this issue in 2015, right? That's been my vote from the beginning and most everyone's (even those saying he's our best O-linemen). Is there anyone here that wants to sign him before the season starts to $8 million/year with $24 million guaranteed?

What is the pick threshold to consider trading him? Pick 32? Pick 45? Pick 64? Pick 75? Pick 100?

Ok Del, I tried to answer your question but I failed to put a "pick" designation on Pouncey for this year. He is ONLY worth (to another team) what they think he will provide in 'production on the field. This being said, in this draft, I take a mid-late 2nd round offer. I don't think the FO will even entertain trying to sign him either this off-season or next. His production simply hasn't warranted the money of Mack (or anything close).

I think he would be "worth" a gamble to let him play out this year to see what kind of player we are left with. We are going to take a cap hit of 5.2- 5.5 million this year if you include his bonuses against 1.4 million in "dead money" if we trade him. We have NOTHING to lose. He is NOT going to look as good as Mack, especially coming off a potential career mitigating injury, therefore, we will be able to sign him next off-season based on his outlook for future performance. Let his value be determined by his play and perceived dedication to living up to his accolades.

Next year, we can tag him with the "non-exclusive" franchise tag, not the "transition tag". The difference in guaranteed money is so small anyway.( 1.6 million this year) This way, we likely could receive 2 first rounders in return. If he looks like he "might" be able to get back to "elite" status, we will get 2 picks for the FO to blow on his (or someone else's) replacement or worst case, we sign him to a contract with a value of the top 5 at the position. The difference in what Mack received and what Pouncey and his agent will demand MAY be in the 10mil/yr range. This would make it an easy decision for us to let him sign elsewhere. IMO, this is the ONLY way to go at this point.

 

[steelhurt]

The Steelers should not consider paying him the money that Mack signed for. First off, Mack has played in every game for the Browns since they drafted him and has made a few pro bowls as well. Second, he's overpaid now for a center thanks to the stupidity of the Jaguars driving up the price. Now you throw 42 plus million at Pouncey who hasn't played as well or shown the consistency to stay on the field as good as Mack. No, I don't make that move, especially when you have to consider Ben's extension,Worrild's and Cam's new contracts coming up.

 

[deljzc]

See how much we all actually agree?

Despite what we think of Pouncey the reality of the situation is

a) Trade him now (very subjective since we don't know what kind of value we can get for him)
b) Sign him this off-season at around $8 million per season
c) Sign him next off-season using the franchise tag as leverage for about $8.5 million per season
d) Let him walk next year withouth any tag and wait for a compensatory pick in 2016.

Those are really the only options.

And I can completely see the argument for any one of those choices (which is why this is an interesting debate).

My only hope is the Steelers realize time is on their side. There is no reason to rush any decision. If we are getting close on a deal this August, there is no reason not to wait until right before the season starts. If we don't like the deal, there is no reason we can't wait until next year and apply the tag (not sure that costs us all that much in the long run).

One thing about the Steelers is they haven't shown that much patience in their decisions. They have drafted quick. They didn't HAVE to release Woodley yet. I hope on this issue they show some patience at the negotiating table and make Pouncey really think through his decision.

 

[F83]

bringing Valasco into camp to push Pouncey and we can try Walllace at LG, Foster is subpar and to slow and has bad footwork, with a real commitment going to the zone a starting unit of
Beachum Wallace Foster DeCastro Gilbert/Adams would give us the quickest ol we have had since 05 and 2 quick interior ol who can pull either way.

 

[Stryker]

Personally for a value perspective, I'd be for taking anything mid 3rd round or higher this year for Pouncey, if we trade him. This is because if we keep him and he walks in FA, we will probably get a 4th (at best a 3rd) the following year. We have no pick during the 3rd round until after everyone else has picked. There is value picking in the first 10 picks of Rd 3 vs a 4th rounder in 2 years.

Though if we keep Pouncey (which is what I'd prefer to do), you do not sign him this year. You make sure he can play a whole year healthy at a high level. If he makes it through at an All-Pro level, you franchise (non-exclusive) the man during FA and try to work out a long term deal after the draft (which is similar with what we did with Worlids, though his was a transition tag). In this situation, you get a pro bowl center for 5.5mil anyway. Franchise amount will be close to 10M (now at 9.8M for linemen). Not a bad value considering if someone falls in love with your center, it will cost them 2 1st rd draft picks. Win-Win.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

See how much we all actually agree?

Despite what we think of Pouncey the reality of the situation is

a) Trade him now (very subjective since we don't know what kind of value we can get for him)
b) Sign him this off-season at around $8 million per season
c) Sign him next off-season using the franchise tag as leverage for about $8.5 million per season
d) Let him walk next year withouth any tag and wait for a compensatory pick in 2016.

Those are really the only options.

And I can completely see the argument for any one of those choices (which is why this is an interesting debate).

My only hope is the Steelers realize time is on their side. There is no reason to rush any decision. If we are getting close on a deal this August, there is no reason not to wait until right before the season starts. If we don't like the deal, there is no reason we can't wait until next year and apply the tag (not sure that costs us all that much in the long run).

One thing about the Steelers is they haven't shown that much patience in their decisions. They have drafted quick. They didn't HAVE to release Woodley yet. I hope on this issue they show some patience at the negotiating table and make Pouncey really think through his decision.

The only one that would be truly disappointing is d.)

You cant let a young All-Pro talent simply walk away for only a 3rd round pick in a year.

But I would have no problems trading him this year before the draft for a high enough draft pick.

 

[TAS]

Put me in the camp of trading him for a cheap bottle of whiskey and a couple tacos. Has there been anybody on this team more over-rated than Pouncey since Kordell?

 

[Idioteque]

Put me in the camp of trading him for a cheap bottle of whiskey and a couple tacos. Has there been anybody on this team more over-rated than Pouncey since Kordell?

The Inside Linebacker Who Shall Not Be Named

 

[deljzc]

The Inside Linebacker Who Shall Not Be Named

Larry Foote?

 

[Vader]

The only one that would be truly disappointing is d.)

You cant let a young All-Pro talent simply walk away for only a 3rd round pick in a year.

But I would have no problems trading him this year before the draft for a high enough draft pick.

They let Wallace walk away for a comp. pick. Everyone applauded them for it. He wasn't hurt often, made the pro-bowl, lead the league in receiving average, lead the league in 100 yard receiving games and broke several Steelers WRs records.

 

[Idioteque]

The only one that would be truly disappointing is d.)

You cant let a young All-Pro talent simply walk away for only a 3rd round pick in a year.

But I would have no problems trading him this year before the draft for a high enough draft pick.

Indeed it would. But the only way that (d) would be an option would be if Pouncey was offered something fair and shot it down.

 

[Bigappleyinzer]

They let Wallace walk away for a comp. pick. Everyone applauded them for it. He wasn't hurt often, made the pro-bowl, lead the league in receiving average, lead the league in 100 yard receiving games and broke several Steelers WRs records.

Pouncey, is a much different beast than MW.

1.) Pouncey is a better player at his position (1st team all-pro in 2011). He is arguably in the top 3 of centers in the NFL (some even would say he is #1)
2.) Pouncey can play his position at a higher level for a much longer period of time period than a 'burner' WR. Hell, Pouncey is 24, he could even get better!
3.) Pouncey, prior to DeCastro torpedoing into his leg, had only missed 3 regular season games.
4.) Centers are slightly cheaper than WR's

 

[TAS]

Pouncey, is a much different beast than MW.

1.) Pouncey is a better player at his position (1st team all-pro in 2011). He is arguably in the top 3 of centers in the NFL (some even would say he is #1)
2.) Pouncey can play his position at a higher level for a much longer period of time period than a 'burner' WR. Hell, Pouncey is 24, he could even get better!
3.) Pouncey, prior to DeCastro torpedoing into his leg, had only missed 3 regular season games.
4.) Centers are slightly cheaper than WR's

Id rather have MW back than Pouncey

 

[TMC]

Despite what we think of Pouncey the reality of the situation is

a) Trade him now (very subjective since we don't know what kind of value we can get for him)
b) Sign him this off-season at around $8 million per season
c) Sign him next off-season using the franchise tag as leverage for about $8.5 million per season
d) Let him walk next year withouth any tag and wait for a compensatory pick in 2016.

Those are really the only options.

And I can completely see the argument for any one of those choices (which is why this is an interesting debate).

My only hope is the Steelers realize time is on their side. There is no reason to rush any decision. If we are getting close on a deal this August, there is no reason not to wait until right before the season starts. If we don't like the deal, there is no reason we can't wait until next year and apply the tag (not sure that costs us all that much in the long run).

One thing about the Steelers is they haven't shown that much patience in their decisions. They have drafted quick. They didn't HAVE to release Woodley yet. I hope on this issue they show some patience at the negotiating table and make Pouncey really think through his decision.

I agree those are the options (hard to pin down a per year amount though) I would entertain the idea of extending him this offseason and would, at the very least, exchange contract proposals so I knew the money he was after. I think my threshold for an extension this year would be $7M per season. Why? Because he is getting it a year early, while injured.

If I could not reach a deal, then I tag him next season, likely with the non-exclusive franchise tag. I can then work on an extension and he can search out a team interested in his services. If he finds one, we can talk terms if they do not want to give up 2-1sts. One first would do.

As for his trade value, maybe I am just being painfully dense, but I always assume a players trade value is the point in the draft where I think I can land a player with similar talent. If there is a center that I think can be like Pouncey, say in the 2nd, then I cannot take lower than a 2nd for him. If he is in the 3rd, then it would be the 3rd. So, the same player can have different values depending on my feel for the draft class.

Now, you may ask why a team would trade for a player if they could draft a similar talent with the pick, well, there is risk in the draft that he does not develop. With the veteran, that risk is much less.

Anywho, that is my thought process.

 

[deljzc]

I would not be surprised the Steelers were thinking $7 million per season and $21-$22 million over the first 3 seasons as well. I bet the Steelers wanted a 6-year deal too considering Pouncey's age.

You wonder if the Mack deal makes Pouncey reject that deal and ask for more. There is some risk on Pouncey's side because if he gets hurt again, he's looking at back-to-back injury seasons and traditionally, those guys don't get signed for jack ****.

We'll see how it plays out. Nothing is going to happen between now and June 1st anyhow. No cap room and I really doubt a trade happens (but stranger things have happened).

 

[CorpusDsteelers]

For those who forgot Valasco ripped his Achilles completely off or dam near. he won't be back for a long time. He would be lucky to be back at the end if this season if at all. He may never play again. No way he's gonna be ready by the season opener. It was of the worst kind not a slight tear or strain. Funny how people want him to push people in camp. Not gonna happen!

 

[Vader]

Pouncey, is a much different beast than MW.

1.) Pouncey is a better player at his position (1st team all-pro in 2011). He is arguably in the top 3 of centers in the NFL (some even would say he is #1)
2.) Pouncey can play his position at a higher level for a much longer period of time period than a 'burner' WR. Hell, Pouncey is 24, he could even get better!
3.) Pouncey, prior to DeCastro torpedoing into his leg, had only missed 3 regular season games.
4.) Centers are slightly cheaper than WR's

1. That's your opinion not fact. He is "arguably" in the top 3 IN YOUR OPINION. As I've posted before, others think he isn't even in the top 10. I've never seen anyone say he was the best center in the NFL outside of Pittsburgh homers.

2. He's been hurt 4 out of 4 years. You have no idea how high a level or for how long he can play. Again that is your opinion but not fact and certainly not based on any evidence. Wallace set records here and made the pro-bowl. Hell Pouncey could even get worse!! You have no idea if he can come back from his last injury.

3. Yes, he only missed 3 games BEFORE he missed 15. Brilliant!! Hell Sanchez made the AFCC game twice BEFORE he started sucking. He was hurt the entire 2011 season. He's been hurt every year.

4. So what? You still have to pay in accordance with what the position will bring. So paying him as the best center (as obviously you think he is) means that he makes ~8+ million a year, which means if he gets hurt again or doesn't come back from his previous injuries you are stuck paying a guy that played the same as a guy sitting on a pew the week before.

It comes down to money and I don't want to pay him a lot of money when I have no idea if he can even get back to normal.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I would not be surprised the Steelers were thinking $7 million per season and $21-$22 million over the first 3 seasons as well. I bet the Steelers wanted a 6-year deal too considering Pouncey's age.

You wonder if the Mack deal makes Pouncey reject that deal and ask for more. There is some risk on Pouncey's side because if he gets hurt again, he's looking at back-to-back injury seasons and traditionally, those guys don't get signed for jack ****.

We'll see how it plays out. Nothing is going to happen between now and June 1st anyhow. No cap room and I really doubt a trade happens (but stranger things have happened).

It's also possible that no one will offer him as much as he wants, or at least more than the Steelers will pay. Not likely, but possible.

 

[deljzc]

It's also possible that no one will offer him as much as he wants, or at least more than the Steelers will pay. Not likely, but possible.

Jacksonville didn't get their guy and Pouncey is a home town alumni....

Something tells me there'll be a market for him. I never thought Wallace would get $12 million either.

 

[LT Dan]

After his "free Hernandez" antics and high injury risk, despite his age (24) I'm just not convinced he's the type that will warrant a long-term deal.

 

[SteelerinMD]

The word of the possibility of bringing back Velzquez could mean that Pouncey plays his contract year at G.

 

[F83]

we will really need him to take a hometown discount with 2 other corner stone players needing extensions (Heyward and Ben)

maybe this could get done
6 years 43.5 million 15 million guaranteed

then move to ben 7 years 88 million 12 mill SB guaranteed

Heyward 6 years 38 million 8 mill SB

 

[keslerclan]

we will really need him to take a hometown discount with 2 other corner stone players needing extensions (Heyward and Ben)

maybe this could get done
6 years 43.5 million 15 million guaranteed

then move to ben 7 years 88 million 12 mill SB guaranteed

Heyward 6 years 38 million 8 mill SB

WOW! Even I would take a chance on this immensely risky deal on Pouncey IF I could get the other 2 deals!