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Bloomberg says we should deny elderly people health care

This is what happens when you let the Gov't choose your healthcare. And they said that Paul Ryan would kill Grandma.
 
Socialized medicine always results in rationed medicine.
 
He could have saved hundreds of millions. For 75 million I could have told him he has no chance of winning.
 
I get it that most likely he wants to ration healthcare, after all a government run system will do that.

However, if you're 95, prostate cancer isn't going to kill you.
 
This is covered over in the Dem vitriol thread
 
that number will soon drop to 90-85-80-75...
 
Socialized medicine always results in rationed medicine.

I honestly do not understand how those proposing publicly-funded medical care don't understand this. Their plan: Increase demand by making medical care "free" (not free, but whatever). Do NOTHING to increase supply of medical care. What happens is that the demand moves up for the medical care, and the supply does not move, creating a shortage between the demand and the supply:

shortage-1000.png


Under market forces, "a Market Shortage occurs when there is excess demand- that is quantity demanded is greater than quantity supplied. In this situation, consumers won't be able to buy as much of a good as they would like. In response to the demand of the consumers, producers will raise both the price of their product and the quantity they are willing to supply. The increase in price will be too much for some consumers and they will no longer demand the product. Meanwhile the increased quantity of available product will satisfy other consumers. Eventually equilibrium will be reached."

http://www.econport.org/content/handbook/Equilibrium/surplus-and-shortage.html

But of course the price increase is not allowed under socialized medical care so the only - ONLY - remaining option is a shortage, i.e., rationing.

Why does America not have single-payer healthcare? Because single payer plans like the UK's NHS and Canada's national healthcare system are running into the same exploding financial problems that the United States is having due to the tremendous costs of new technologies and new expensive drugs. Those systems are not handling the growth in expenses well either.

But they react differently. Instead of rapidly building new facilities and installing new high tech machines as occurs in every city in the United States, the UK and Canada slow things down with budget creep. They can't commit political suicide with huge tax increases that would hurt their economies so they incrementally pass increases. That significantly delays but doesn't prevent new technologies coming into play. Most cities in the US have more MRI and PET scanners than entire Canadian provinces.

It's a form of government rationing because budget restrictions create a shortage for everyone in the system, resulting in waiting lists that some patients never get off. Their citizens mostly accept that for non-emergencies because fortunately, as in the US, most people don't require sophisticated or advanced medical care. When they cannot accept it, they leave the system and fund their own private healthcare.

https://www.newsweek.com/quora-question-why-single-payer-healthcare-wont-work-611168

Rationing means waiting much longer for medical care, and assignment of care based on things such as age, overall health, related medical conditions, etc.

In other words, letting some die because there is just not enough medical care to go around. Anybody who denies this is an idiot, a liar, or both.

Further, the undeniable fact as to technological advances in medical care is this: Those advances come almost exclusively through medicine in the United States, NOT the government-run systems. Why? Profit motive. The publicly-funded medical care countries are relying on the United States to investigate, research, develop and market new surgery techniques, microsurgery, new drugs, etc. so that they can then obtain the new medical advances and ration them due to the excess demand compared to supply.

While there are many opinions about our nation’s health care system (particularly in Washington), there’s one overwhelming area of consensus — the United States leads the world in medical innovation.

In addition to the best and brightest practicing medicine and state-of-art medical facilities, we have benefited from having the best and, usually, the earliest access to the latest medical technologies and innovations. In large part, this is because they were discovered, developed and produced here in America.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/medi...3J-FD-3ZY1bMPD-Wz3jedQmPGFeb2pbPpjon0HRibkq8X

Stem cell research, microsurgery, new cancer medicines, HIV combination drug treatments, new insulin for diabetics, robotic surgery, research as to the effect medications have on our health - all from the United States.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/publichealth/17594

So Bernie's plan is to ration medical care, kill people, and stop the amazing advances in medicine. Too bad his theories were not in practice 50 years ago - he would probably be dead from his heart attack and we would be spared his idiocy.
 
He said it in a bad way, but there is some degree of truth in what he says.

We all want Cadillac healthcare but only want to collectively pay what you'd pay for a Chevy.

It's a very complex issue because when we say "healthcare" we cover a LOT of different things.

1. "Healthcare" is your routine checkups and your decades long relationship with a doctor of your choice. It's the little things that make you comfortable. Make you open up to your doctor and decide on small, quality of life decisions. It's the ability to get good advice on "next steps" if you want to pursue additional care.

2. "Healthcare" is non-life threatening emergency room care. It's getting a bad cut that needs stitches or having a kid break a bone.

3. "Healthcare" is the growing number of specialists you need as you age (particularly in your 40's and 50'). From mental health to specialists for weight, joints, eyes, pain, headaches, etc.

4. "Healthcare" is Medicare, which triggers for millions when you turn 65.

5. "Healthcare" is pharmacy drugs and turning prescriptions into drugs at reasonable cost.

6. "Healthcare" is major hospitalization and treatments for life-threatening obstacles. Cancer. Chronic pain or necessary surgeries. Transplants.

7. "Healthcare" is end of life care and making you feel comfortable when all other avenues are not feasible.

Each one of these things needs to be talked about separately. It doesn't make sense to socialize everything above. It doesn't. And we need to do a much better job of stopping the monopolies that prevent competition. And maybe we need different insurances for different parts (rather than lump it all together). That has made insurance companies TOO BIG and TOO MONOPOLISTIC.

Maybe we need to have prescription plans separate from our health care insurance. Maybe there needs to be more government oversight into JUST THAT ASPECT of healthcare because right now it seems completely wacked.

We are doing a poor job of the family doctors because that has become too big-business and related to big healthcare. We need to go back to just paying for every day doctor visits our of our pocket.

The small ER's are revolutionizing item #2

The gateway to specialists is being abused and changes in that need to be made. Plus we (as consumers) need to be more realistic about how many specialists we expect or need.

Arguably, since we live longer, we need to raise retirements AND medicare age to 67.

There could be an argument that item #6 is "subsidized" by federal or state tax dollars since technology to save life/death illnesses is advancing so quickly and is so expensive reasonable private insurance can't pay for it (and the premiums spread out to all of us). Revolutionary cancer treatments and transfusions and fighting incurable illnesses cost a LOT but are relatively rare. Maybe once you reach $100,000 with your insurance the government covers the remaining balance. And we all pay for that with taxes rather than premiums.

Who knows. I don't have the answers. But we have put so many eggs into the "healthcare" basket we don't even know what we are talking about. And socializing the whole damn thing would bankrupt our government (due to never increasing revenue as much as they spend).

The only way to solve big problems in life is to break it down into smaller problems. Waiving your hand with "Medicare or All" would be a disaster. Instead we need to break up big health care. We need to monopoly bust up the big hospitals and threaten big pharma. Create competition in each piece of the puzzle separately under different laws and different sets of rules.
 
I honestly do not understand how those proposing publicly-funded medical care don't understand this. Their plan: Increase demand by making medical care "free" (not free, but whatever). Do NOTHING to increase supply of medical care. What happens is that the demand moves up for the medical care, and the supply does not move, creating a shortage between the demand and the supply:

shortage-1000.png

Ahh, but you forget the supply end of BernieNomics. College will be "free" and student loans will be "free" so anyone who wants to be a doctor or nurse can be. You just have to figure out how much to pay people to get them to go to work and not sit home and collect welfare.
 
Wife just got a bill for 4,0000 for her new crohns infusion meds. Ducking 4,000!!!! God damn bill was 20,000 before insurance did there thing. How da fuq is that 20,000!!!

Break them up. All of them.

My vet, amazing dude, told me the med my past dog had to go on meds (also a human drug) used to cost .05 a pill. Been out there forever. Recently, and when I needed it a drug company took that one over and now the pills are 5 bucks a pill.
 
Wife just got a bill for 4,0000 for her new crohns infusion meds. Ducking 4,000!!!! God damn bill was 20,000 before insurance did there thing. How da fuq is that 20,000!!!

Break them up. All of them.

My vet, amazing dude, told me the med my past dog had to go on meds (also a human drug) used to cost .05 a pill. Been out there forever. Recently, and when I needed it a drug company took that one over and now the pills are 5 bucks a pill.

I used to pay $198 for six pens of Tresiba insulin. Then last September the price was $591. I had to switch to much less expensive Novalin insulin at Walmart, it's not as effective and I have to three times as much but it only costs $43 for five pens.
 
I used to pay $198 for six pens of Tresiba insulin. Then last September the price was $591. I had to switch to much less expensive Novalin insulin at Walmart, it's not as effective and I have to three times as much but it only costs $43 for five pens.

There ya go. What happened? Nothing,(well maybe more folks in need but still) ......money grab.
 
I’m going to do it. “I remember”...lol. Not 10 years ago we had an HMO. You know that terrible thing you had to call your doc first, yeah that was so horrible. .... never paid a dime for ****. Surgery, big time meds,...ahhh how I miss you
 
Regulation and the requirement that medical providers give away so much of their services has divorced the actual cost of medical care from the price in today's system. A drug company charges $8 for a pill because it has 7 products in research at a cost of a billion dollars and its patent is running out on its biggest money maker, and hospitals charge $15 for the same pill because they have to give it away for free to 25% of their patients.
 
I’m going to do it. “I remember”...lol. Not 10 years ago we had an HMO. You know that terrible thing you had to call your doc first, yeah that was so horrible. .... never paid a dime for ****. Surgery, big time meds,...ahhh how I miss you

Rationing. Capitated per member per month payment. Your doc was at financial risk for treating you. It’s coming back.

Cost and utilization review - provider saves the insurer money by reducing claims and he gets rewarded financially. Again, rationing.
 
Unfortunately lifestyle choices and the results of them will be the single biggest factor in cost. That isn't going away without serious change from childhood on up.

If you have the bulk of the country focused on preventive medicine...healthy eating,PHYSICAL activity,controlling your vices...drinking,smoking, drugs and stuffing any old garbage into your body. You'll have a totally different population health wise as a majority. That leaves a lot of room for much lower costs for illness not of your own doing.


We're pretty spoiled and pampered. I'm not sure it can be done at this point. I do know from a physical standpoint the general population looks like ****.
 
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