Call it here, do you see Ben Roethlisberger returning to Steelers next year

[SteelerSask2]

The trap will be the remortgaged contract. The team will not be competitive next year. The real best move for the team moving forward is to terminate use the 19 to keep cornerstone players like Watt. Play with Rudolph. He sinks or swims. Yes most likely sinks. Then get your high pick QB and move forward.
The worst is remortgage again and be in the same spot in 2022 and be out the 19 or more of the dead money ditch. This team cannot be competitive next year with or without Ben. And particularly in its current configuration or worse.

 

[Steelmann]

He had a bad game. 30TDs and 10 INts, yeah he sucks....

Just cause you heard Louis Riddick say he wasn't seeing guys open... lol.

**** dude,seriously? Man. Open your eyes. I am as big a fan as anyone. But really? It started all ready 2 years ago in the 2nd half of the season collapse. It continued in the NE game of last year. How defenses haven't played up close against us all year is mind boggling. Sure he hits the odd ones. Those little 2-5 yard passes he was hitting. His long passes absolutely sucked. Yes he hit on one or two. He also missed god knows how many. Yes they dropped passes. Yes it's not all on Ben. No he won't retire with 41 mill on the table. Yes the coaching has been atrocious,I have advocated getting rid of Tomlin since the Tebow disaster,but have been more than willing to give him a chance..I would have loved Tony Dungy. No,the upper management doesn't have big enough balls to do something about that. Yes they have how many + 500 winning seasons in a row that other teams would love to have. No,we are not other teams,we expect more. Yes we are about to have to start rebuilding again. No,I am not a negative Nancy,I am usually much more positive than most on this site,but also a realist. No....Mason Rudolf is not the frigging answer. Yes we will be stuck with Ben because of contract implications,and he is considered untouchable. Yes I would be more than happy to be wrong and Big Ben shoving these words down my throat after stomping to the big one. Hell,maybe even after one playoff win. No,the world is not coming to an end,but one day Ben will not be here. Brace yourself accordingly. Yes I probably could have used a paragraph or two. Rant over.

Cheers

 

[SteelerSask2]

Give Ben the 21 and move on with him off the books. I think he could still play but no point with this turd at head coach and the offensive line and the run game. Grab one of the bargain basement first round failures and compete with whats on the roster. Play the season. See if you got a QB. If you don't you will draft top 10-15. Get your guy then. And see if your coach should be a part of the rebuild after next year. I don't see how.

 

[trinisteel]

I hope not ,we should of got Quarterback a couple drafts ago.

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[trinisteel]

He to expensive for us to do any real moves this off season.

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[madinsomniac]

Bens cap hit is big, but his salary is under the nfl average qb salary... even meh qbs are making big bank... you aren’t cutting him and replacing him for less money without a huge gamble

They cannot leave his cap hit as it is though, so if he is back expect an extension into the years he will certainly be retired...

 

[Sarge]

I hope not, but I think he will be.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

could they cut and resign with a lesser deal and big signing bonus? (spitballing here)

 

[SteelerSask2]

could they cut and resign with a lesser deal and big signing bonus? (spitballing here)

Here is the structure of the deal. He already has almost 20 million on the books. All they can do is the 20 million and add more years and dead cap room in the future. Or they can somehow pay him 40 million to play next year and be done with it I favour eating the 20 million see wat you have in Rudolph and move on. hopefully it facilitates Tomlin's departure.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

Bens cap hit is big, but his salary is under the nfl average qb salary... even meh qbs are making big bank... you aren’t cutting him and replacing him for less money without a huge gamble

They cannot leave his cap hit as it is though, so if he is back expect an extension into the years he will certainly be retired...

Kicking the can (and cap hits) down the road. Which is exactly what has us in this position to begin with. The front office has developed a habit of "Robbing Peter To Pay Paul". Yeah, I know every team does it to some extent. But the other teams plan some years in there where they allow themselves some damn cap room. We don't. Always up against the cap and needing to extend aging players; leaving dead money on the cap when they retire or are let go.
Wouldn't it be nice to go into an off season sometime knowing that we have the cap space to choose who we're going to retain AND give a player like TJ his new, record setting deal? One can only imagine.

 

[Hoot]

Here is the structure of the deal. He already has almost 20 million on the books. All they can do is the 20 million and add more years and dead cap room in the future. Or they can somehow pay him 40 million to play next year and be done with it I favour eating the 20 million see wat you have in Rudolph and move on. hopefully it facilitates Tomlin's departure.

just expanding a bit:

- 22M of cap hit next year is the remaining monies already paid to Ben as bonuses but amortized over the term of his deal. This isn't money paid to Ben next year, it is money already paid. It hits no matter if he retires, gets cut, or traded. The only things the team can do with it is extend Ben again and kick the can down the road as you say or cut him as a post June 1 cut and spread the hit across 2 years.

- 4M next year is his base salary. If he is not on the team next year, the money does not get paid and does not impact cap.
- 15M next year is a roster bonus due on March 1. If he is not on the team on Mar 1, the money does not get paid and does not impact cap.

 

[Coryea]

Kicking the can (and cap hits) down the road. Which is exactly what has us in this position to begin with. The front office has developed a habit of "Robbing Peter To Pay Paul". Yeah, I know every team does it to some extent. But the other teams plan some years in there where they allow themselves some damn cap room. We don't. Always up against the cap and needing to extend aging players; leaving dead money on the cap when they retire or are let go.
Wouldn't it be nice to go into an off season sometime knowing that we have the cap space to choose who we're going to retain AND give a player like TJ his new, record setting deal? One can only imagine.

The only reason that's biting us in the *** now is because of Covid, the cap would be well north of 200 million if it wasn't for that. Ben's cap hit wouldn't be nearly as bad, so there's no one really to blame for this.
This will have no effect on resigning TJ. He'll sign a big extension this off-season, but next season he'll still play under his rookie deal, then his new deal will kick in, he shouldn't have a really big hit until 2023 at the earliest.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

The only reason that's biting us in the *** now is because of Covid, the cap would be well north of 200 million if it wasn't for that. Ben's cap hit wouldn't be nearly as bad, so there's no one really to blame for this.
This will have no effect on resigning TJ. He'll sign a big extension this off-season, but next season he'll still play under his rookie deal, then his new deal will kick in, he shouldn't have a really big hit until 2023 at the earliest.

Even if there had been a cap of 200 million, we would have been 2M+ over the cap (per overthecap.com). So, we still would have had to extend/rework contracts (kick the can) in order to be able to resign FAs that we want. Pouncey retiring would have put us under the cap in that scenario, but not by enough to say resign JuJu (and definitely not Bud). Finagling the cap the way we do every year has consequences.

 

[SteelerSask2]

The only reason that's biting us in the *** now is because of Covid, the cap would be well north of 200 million if it wasn't for that. Ben's cap hit wouldn't be nearly as bad, so there's no one really to blame for this.
This will have no effect on resigning TJ. He'll sign a big extension this off-season, but next season he'll still play under his rookie deal, then his new deal will kick in, he shouldn't have a really big hit until 2023 at the earliest.

But they still had him on the books for 40 million this year. Even if it was 200 that is 10 million short of 1/4 of the cap. Pushing salary down the road is just a re worked mortgage. You eventually need to get off the hook. Watt will be a Steelers player long term. Juju will not and he normally would. In fact they would not have even let Juju get to where he is in the past. But they just pushed too many contracts down the road. In addition, Heyward's contract does not look good now.

 

[Coryea]

But they still had him on the books for 40 million this year. Even if it was 200 that is 10 million short of 1/4 of the cap. Pushing salary down the road is just a re worked mortgage. You eventually need to get off the hook. Watt will be a Steelers player long term. Juju will not and he normally would. In fact they would not have even let Juju get to where he is in the past. But they just pushed too many contracts down the road. In addition, Heyward's contract does not look good now.

They'll never admit, but part of them probably thought, we'll just push Ben's big cap hit down the road until he's done because we won't be competitive that following season anyways.

 

[Hoot]

He'll sign a big extension this off-season, but next season he'll still play under his rookie deal, then his new deal will kick in, he shouldn't have a really big hit until 2023 at the earliest.

That isn't how it works. If he signs a new deal, the rookie contract is void. He will immediately be paid and play under the terms of the new deal.

 

[Coryea]

That isn't how it works. If he signs a new deal, the rookie contract is void. He will immediately be paid and play under the terms of the new deal.

They can word it how they want, they can sign him through 2026, with part of that being the end of his rookie deal is the first year of the extension, I believe Gurley signed something similar.

 

[Hoot]

They can word it how they want, they can sign him through 2026, with part of that being the end of his rookie deal is the first year of the extension, I believe Gurley signed something similar.

I didn't pay attention to Gurley's deal. Would be interesting to see if they did it that way.

Yes, they could word it anyway they want, but the biggest hit comes from the signing bonus out of the gate. The signing bonus begins to hit the cap day one. They could defer down the road and make them roster bonuses...if Watt is willing to kick that big fat check out a couple years, I guess it could be done in theory. Not sure why TJ would want to do that though. One injury and that big pay day is gone.

 

[Coryea]

I didn't pay attention to Gurley's deal. Would be interesting to see if they did it that way.

Yes, they could word it anyway they want, but the biggest hit comes from the signing bonus out of the gate. The signing bonus begins to hit the cap day one. They could defer down the road and make them roster bonuses...if Watt is willing to kick that big fat check out a couple years, I guess it could be done in theory. Not sure why TJ would want to do that though. One injury and that big pay day is gone.

Sort of like Ben, 2019 was his final year of his deal he signed in 2015, but he signed a two year 68 million extension prior to 2019, he played 2019 and the new deal only counted as an extra 3 million in 2019, then this year, now 2021 is the final year of his contract. So Watt will be similar, sign a 4 year extension, which is really a 5 year extension counting the final year of his current deal.

 

[topseed]

What's scary about Ben is how precipitously his production fell off in the last 6 games.

First ten games (10-0):

255-380 2534 yards 24 TD 5 INT 101.4 rating
Had one bad game against the Titans with 3 interceptions and a 67.4 rating. Otherwise, had 7 games with triple-digit ratings and 0 picks.


Final six games (2-4):

191-296 1770 13/9 82.7 rating
Had individual game ratings of 81, 82.7, 65.9, 62.4, and 85.5. One great half against the Colts resulted in a triple-digit rating for that game


Ben's overall season rating of 94.1 was only good for 19th in the league among qualifying quarterbacks. 82.7 is a horrendous number in this era, and would sit between #28 Cam Newton (82.9), and #29 Nick Foles (80.8).

Magnifying all of this is Ben's utter inability to run with the ball. In his first 10 seasons, he averaged 114 yards and 11 first downs, and added 15 rushing touchdowns. This year? 11 rushing yards, 3 first downs, 0 touchdowns. In the last 6 games? 7 rushes, -3 yards.

There is no way on God's green earth that ANY team is going to be able to compete consistently with an immobile QB chalking up ratings in the 60s and 80s in this day and age. Let alone one costing over $40 million against the cap.

 

[Coryea]

What's scary about Ben is how precipitously his production fell off in the last 6 games.

First ten games (10-0):

255-380 2534 yards 24 TD 5 INT 101.4 rating
Had one bad game against the Titans with 3 interceptions and a 67.4 rating. Otherwise, had 7 games with triple-digit ratings and 0 picks.


Final six games (2-4):

191-296 1770 13/9 82.7 rating
Had individual game ratings of 81, 82.7, 65.9, 62.4, and 85.5. One great half against the Colts resulted in a triple-digit rating for that game


Ben's overall season rating of 94.1 was only good for 19th in the league among qualifying quarterbacks. 82.7 is a horrendous number in this era, and would sit between #28 Cam Newton (82.9), and #29 Nick Foles (80.8).

Magnifying all of this is Ben's utter inability to run with the ball. In his first 10 seasons, he averaged 114 yards and 11 first downs, and added 15 rushing touchdowns. This year? 11 rushing yards, 3 first downs, 0 touchdowns. In the last 6 games? 7 rushes, -3 yards.

There is no way on God's green earth that ANY team is going to be able to compete consistently with an immobile QB chalking up ratings in the 60s and 80s in this day and age. Let alone one costing over $40 million against the cap.

Second half was not good, but don't forget the drops, we beat Baltimore and Washington easily if it weren't for drops. If Ben is back, they have to hit on an Olinemen in round 1, the Oline has to be pretty solid for Ben.

 

[SteelerSask2]

They'll never admit, but part of them probably thought, we'll just push Ben's big cap hit down the road until he's done because we won't be competitive that following season anyways.

I think this post is 100% accurate, but that time is now. could they be competitive next year with Ben. Absolutely. Are they gonna win a championship next year, bleeding a bunch of talent, with a very tough schedule and the division getting better. And most importantly with Mike Tomlin coaching. Not a ****** hope.

 

[Hoot]

Sort of like Ben, 2019 was his final year of his deal he signed in 2015, but he signed a two year 68 million extension prior to 2019, he played 2019 and the new deal only counted as an extra 3 million in 2019, then this year, now 2021 is the final year of his contract. So Watt will be similar, sign a 4 year extension, which is really a 5 year extension counting the final year of his current deal.

I forget the details of Ben's last extension, but I do recall there was some remaining monies from his prior deal. Those got spread out over the term of the new 3 year deal. But he also received additional signing bonus which was added to what was amortized over those three years. All of those bonuses must be accounted for in 21 unless they restructure again and push the money further down the road. Of course, he would expect more bonus money to do it so that just adds to the long term debt.


For Watt, he could sign and extension for 4 new years + 1 remaining rookie deal. It still works the same though. All prior bonuses not accounted for could be amortized across the 5 years. However, unlike Ben, Watt probably doesn't have much leftover on an amortized bonus as he is on his rookie deal. He would receive a Signing Bonus for doing the new deal which is new money. I don't know what that would be - say 25M. That gets spread across the 5 years so 5M per year which was my point. That bonus money hits the cap immediately. Even though the first year is "part of" the rookie deal term, the SB bonus will still hit day one. Remember, the signing bonus is not paid each year, it is paid up front. The annual hit is just the business spreading that cost across multiple years. Businesses do this with all kinds of things. I do not believe the NFL accounting rules allow for a team to pay a bonus this year but defer all of that cost on the books till a later year. The only way to do that is to make it a Roster Bonus that is paid at the start of that fiscal year.

 

[topseed]

Second half was not good, but don't forget the drops, we beat Baltimore and Washington easily if it weren't for drops. If Ben is back, they have to hit on an Olinemen in round 1, the Oline has to be pretty solid for Ben.

As I recall, there were more than a couple dropped INTs as well, my friend.

 

[Coryea]

I forget the details of Ben's last extension, but I do recall there was some remaining monies from his prior deal. Those got spread out over the term of the new 3 year deal. But he also received additional signing bonus which was added to what was amortized over those three years. All of those bonuses must be accounted for in 21 unless they restructure again and push the money further down the road. Of course, he would expect more bonus money to do it so that just adds to the long term debt.


For Watt, he could sign and extension for 4 new years + 1 remaining rookie deal. It still works the same though. All prior bonuses not accounted for could be amortized across the 5 years. However, unlike Ben, Watt probably doesn't have much leftover on an amortized bonus as he is on his rookie deal. He would receive a Signing Bonus for doing the new deal which is new money. I don't know what that would be - say 25M. That gets spread across the 5 years so 5M per year which was my point. That bonus money hits the cap immediately. Even though the first year is "part of" the rookie deal term, the SB bonus will still hit day one. Remember, the signing bonus is not paid each year, it is paid up front. The annual hit is just the business spreading that cost across multiple years. Businesses do this with all kinds of things. I do not believe the NFL accounting rules allow for a team to pay a bonus this year but defer all of that cost on the books till a later year. The only way to do that is to make it a Roster Bonus that is paid at the start of that fiscal year.

Watt has no remaining signing bonus counting against his fifth year, his cap hit next year is all base salary. Yes any signing bonus of a new deal will hit next season, but I think they can just take his salary and turn that into bonus money so basically he'll play next season for what the final year of his rookie contract was going to pay him.
That could be way off though, LOL.