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Can a defensive player win the Heisman Again? Coolie Pimps Ed Oliver

Ike Kelly said:
Well if you knew anything about the position, you would guess right off you have Dwight Freeney and John Randall. Two similar builds DL who played DE or DT.

You obviously didn’t see my post from yours listing DL being drafted in the top 10 for the past ten years.

“I don’t know how many of his sacks come from.....”, yet you form a lock down opinion of the player you haven’t even fully evaluated? Your argument is laughable to your creditably as a evaluator. Just save yourself the trouble and admit (you won’t) you are just another mouther who likes to see his ramblings on the internet.

BTW......there was disagreement about Oliver winning the Heisman? If you could read full sentences you would have ascertained Coolie agreed his ability to win was scarce. What the whole issue with this thread, and what you are obviously trying to change the narrative is the bet that Oliver won’t be drafted in the top 10. History shows you will lose this bet. So get prepared to have a vacation when it happens. Maybe you can work on your cognitive skills while you are on hiatus, or even better, bag groceries on the side so you can be a contributor instead of abusing your non-contrib status.



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Ike, stop mixing oranges with apples. Dwight Freeney was a edge rusher, never a NT/DT draft prospect. And unlike Oliver he had tons of sacks in college.

" A two-year starter for the Orangemen, Freeney set a school record with 17.5 sacks in his senior season and his 34 career sacks rank second in school history to Tim Green "

Understand Ike, Freeney has more sacks in one season than Oliver will in his college career. You might act like your making a point, but your not.

I asked you to show me one 5 technique playing today that is 6'2 280? You give me no names. Ownage as usual.

As for Randall he wasn't even drafted, he built himself up after entering the NFL.

My point if you read correctly is DT's are seldom top ten picks in the draft these days. Why don't you check the past 5 drafts and see how often a DT player went in the top 10 over all. You might learn something. Edge rushers go in the top ten all the time, but if you watch the film, Oliver isn't an edge rusher.
 
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Coach said:
There are plenty of DL players on the tackles for looses and sacks list. Oliver barley rates on one, and does not quality for the other. No excuses there.

You're borderline crazy to suggest the conference he plays in ( American Athletic Conference ) is close to the SEC, Big 10, Big 12, Pac-12 and ACC. These are know as the power five. Oliver made history as the first 5 star recruit not to sign with them, which could have been very smart as he would not be as productive vs. better competition.
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I have stated before that the American conference lacks the Top end strength of an Alabama or OH State but the bulk of their conference would stand up well against the bulk of the Power 5 schools....

Oliver is averaging 1.5 TFLs per game which is not far off the bulk of the guys in front of him. And as I stated on the total tackles list he does show up...and is the FIRST DL to do so. He is averaging 8.0 tackles per game and the next closest DL is at 6.7 per game.

Linebackers and DBs should have more solo tackles than a guy on the interior defensive line. If you don't understand why, I am not going to take the time to explain football to you.

Oliver is better against the best competition. He would be a household name if he played in the SEC.
 
Coach said:
Ike, stop mixing oranges with apples. Dwight Freeney was a edge rusher, never a NT/DT draft prospect. And unlike Oliver he had tons of sacks in college.

" A two-year starter for the Orangemen, Freeney set a school record with 17.5 sacks in his senior season and his 34 career sacks rank second in school history to Tim Green "

Understand Ike, Freeney has more sacks in one season than Oliver will in his college career. You might act like your making a point, but your not.

I asked you to show me one 5 technique playing today that is 6'2 280? You give me no names. Ownage as usual.

As for Randall he wasn't even drafted, he built himself up after entering the NFL.

My point if you read correctly is DT's are seldom top ten picks in the draft these days. Edge rushers, but if you watch the film, Oliver isn't an edge rusher.
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why should he watch film when you don't.....two series is not "watching film"
 
CoolieMan said:
why should he watch film when you don't.....two series is not "watching film"
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But I am. I'm not a Houston fan, but said I'd give him a review for a game, which is what I am doing. What's next, aw but you only saw one game? Then if I see another you say the same. If someone has all his snaps on defense for 2018, that would make things easy.

If you want another bet, I will offer one. Oliver to have less than 6 sacks for the year :)
 
Coach said:
But I am. I'm not a Houston fan, but said I'd give him a review for a game, which is what I am doing. What's next, aw but you only saw one game? Then if I see another you say the same. If someone has all his snaps on defense for 2018, that would make things easy.

If you want another bet, I will offer one. Oliver to have less than 6 sacks for the year :)
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his best season was 5.5 so why would I take that?

I don't give a **** if you don't watch another single play. Your "analysis" is as useless as anything else you post here.

I am not a 'Bama fan or OSU fan or Clemson fan...but I bet I'be seen more of their games than you this season
 
Great players at small schools often have to play out of position. Best position for the team and best position for the player are not always the same. If Oliver was at a big school with other good players on the DL, he’d probably be used like Aaron Donald or Warren Sapp, shooting a gap and causing havoc.

Houston doesn’t have that luxury. They need him on the nose even though it’s not the best use of his talent. It makes the team defense better.

Same happened to Chickillo at Miami. He was a 5 star recruit but then Miami had some recruiting violations so they had no depth. He’s a natural 4-3 DE or 3-4 OLB but Miami needed him bulked up to play like a 3-4 DE.
 
Coach said:
Ike, stop mixing oranges with apples. Dwight Freeney was a edge rusher, never a NT/DT draft prospect. And unlike Oliver he had tons of sacks in college.

" A two-year starter for the Orangemen, Freeney set a school record with 17.5 sacks in his senior season and his 34 career sacks rank second in school history to Tim Green "

Understand Ike, Freeney has more sacks in one season than Oliver will in his college career. You might act like your making a point, but your not.

I asked you to show me one 5 technique playing today that is 6'2 280? You give me no names. Ownage as usual.

As for Randall he wasn't even drafted, he built himself up after entering the NFL.

My point if you read correctly is DT's are seldom top ten picks in the draft these days. Why don't you check the past 5 drafts and see how often a DT player went in the top 10 over all. You might learn something. Edge rushers go in the top ten all the time, but if you watch the film, Oliver isn't an edge rusher.
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Sweet Jesus, you are the epitome of our failed education system. It has nothing to do with apples and oranges narrative. I gave you comparable build sizes and not college production. Something you can’t even analyze right now, because you haven’t evaluated anything. First Freeney came out of the Big East conference when it existed. He was exclusively used as a pass rusher. Why? Because the HC, Paul Pasqualoni, a Parcell coaching tree defensive coord by trade felt his speed/power measurable would fit the scheme in place. Notice Freeney didn’t even catch on until his Jr. year. Coach P was a superb teacher on techniques and maximized Freeney’s ability. I recall watching him running a 4.4 at the combine in the early 2000s and couldn’t believe it. Fastest lineman I’ve ever seen.

You provide useless info you picked up on the net (ranks 2nd behind Green) to not even comment on Randall, who Oliver’s motor mimics the most. Why? Because it doesn’t fit your agenda.

Fact is, Oliver has the same body type and measurables as both. Who knows what he will do in the pros. I’m thinking he will be more like Randall, who has almost the same measurables as a pro, that Oliver has now.

Understand Cooch, Freeney was pass rusher on a pincer devised DL scheme. Not like Oliver who is playing a DT penatrator role.

Ownage? You can’t even support your own statements. Who said 5 tech is what Oliver will play? He will move up and down the line but as a 3 tech, maybe a 1 tech on either side of the center. Heck he could be used now as a inside 4 tech to disrupt the line calls for his teammates on the lines. If his measurables at the combine are anywhere near Freeney’s, then he could add 5 tech to his dossier. But he will be dominant inside the tackles outside shoulders. If you watch more than two series of film who would realize this. But you won’t. You already know Coolie will win the bet, and you will beget logic and stand in the middle of the thunderstorm without cover and claim you aren’t getting wet.

Just bury your head in the sand and wait for the draft.


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Gruden’s taking a DL in the first? Hard to fathom with what he’s done so far. He and Carr aren’t gelling to good, so QB may not be out of the picture, even wi5h that contract.


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CoolieMan said:
I have stated before that the American conference lacks the Top end strength of an Alabama or OH State but the bulk of their conference would stand up well against the bulk of the Power 5 schools....

Oliver is averaging 1.5 TFLs per game which is not far off the bulk of the guys in front of him. And as I stated on the total tackles list he does show up...and is the FIRST DL to do so. He is averaging 8.0 tackles per game and the next closest DL is at 6.7 per game.

Linebackers and DBs should have more solo tackles than a guy on the interior defensive line. If you don't understand why, I am not going to take the time to explain football to you.

Oliver is better against the best competition. He would be a household name if he played in the SEC.
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Counter Point.

As I showed you his tackles for losses vs other DL and LB's is rates in the 40's. DB's don't make as many tackles for losses, the players closest to the line of scrimmage do.

Oliver is well known among college football fans. If he played in the SEC, he would not be making as many plays.
 
2nd viewing, added to post 162 for full game review.


Houston up 21-0 on an easy touchdown pass. They left the man in motion wide open in zone. Arizona has to pass. Let’s see Oliver pass rush , he will get plenty of chances.


26:35 Oliver easily blocked, RB goes wide to his left and pick up 5 yards.

26:55 Houston with 4 men on the line, Oliver finally breaks through for a QB pressure and with the aid of others after him forces a throw away. Good play

27:29 5 men at the line. Oliver loops around and doesn’t make contact on an incomplete pass. Arizona punts.



32:18 Houston in 3-4. Oliver take out of a running play and moved away from the hole by their center. Not even close. Oliver when he locks up, can be move to easily. Poor 2 gap ability for a NT on that play.

32:30: Run to the right. Oliver not in the play

33:05 Three down lineman, Oliver in the middle. They blitz a man, Oliver easily held up on a double team.

33:41. Three man line. Oliver looks like he was suckered by the OL player as he left him run in on running play that went to the right, preventing any pursuit. More of a bad play for him than a good one, but not enough for the red.

34:12 4 men at the line. Oliver gets pressure this time, but the throw isn’t bothered.

34:45 Oliver caught up in the traffic, might be a bit suspect to counter type of plays because he plays so aggressively.

35:14 4 men at the line, Oliver on the bench. Houston D gets the running back for the loss.

36:36 3rd and 12. Pass rush not there, pass incomplete.
 
Coach said:
Counter Point.

As I showed you his tackles for losses vs other DL and LB's is rates in the 40's. DB's don't make as many tackles for losses, the players closest to the line of scrimmage do.

Oliver is well known among college football fans. If he played in the SEC, he would not be making as many plays.
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his TFLs are down slightly this year. He is within a couple of TFLs from being in the top 5....and as his one game that counts toward games played vs TSU he did not play much at all...divide his stats by 4 games he really played in and he is at 1.6 TFLs which puts him much farther up the list.

why no comment about the fact that he is averaging 8.0 tackles per game while the next closest DL is at 6.7? Oh yeah, that is because it doesn't fit your agenda.

he is going pro after this season so you can quit hoping you can win the bet that way
 
none of the 4 men on the line sets are 4 DL...UH puts a LB on the line but Oliver stays at NT...he doesn't usually move out to a 3 technique
 
Also technique number isn't due to the defensive personnel, it's where the D lines up opposed to the other team's offensive linemen.
 
I never seen someone so adamant about having his opinion validated in my life. To argue about dumbshit that nobody agress with, ad nauseum in hopes that one day he can go "neener neener neener, I'm right!" And denying others facts and opinions, apparently to make his neener moment (some day) to be much sweeter.
 
Oh boy.....Oliver’s played well today......6 solos, 5 TFL, 2 sacks and a FF. Looks like he’s been pulled as of the 4th Qtr. It will probably be days before Coach comments.


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and the 5 TFLs makes his average just over 1.9 per game which would move him form tied for 41st to tied for 3rd (unless some of those at 1.9 last week had a killer week this week also)

and his forced fumble was returned for 6 by UH

and yes we realize this game was against ECU

and Yes they are not a powerhouse

but the stats still count
 
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Congrats Coolie. I watched some and Oliver had an impactful game. I have been following the draft for 2 decades. There is such a thing as noting big games vs. weak oppositions, and that's what we saw. Oliver found a weak interior OL and dominated.
 
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Ike Kelly said:
Oh boy.....Oliver’s played well today......6 solos, 5 TFL, 2 sacks and a FF. Looks like he’s been pulled as of the 4th Qtr. It will probably be days before Coach comments.


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It took Oliver 6 games to get his first sack and forced fumble of the season. Be honest the opponent was weak. If someone were to tell you that before the season started you would not buy it.

I keep wanting to see Oliver this year vs. better competition.

We all know the American Football Conference isn't very good, and the West where Houston plays is really bad.

http://theamerican.org/index.aspx?path=football
 
Coach said:
It took Oliver 6 games to get his first sack and forced fumble of the season. Be honest the opponent was weak. If someone were to tell you that before the season started you would not buy it.

I keep wanting to see Oliver this year vs. better competition.

We all know the American Football Conference isn't very good, and the West where Houston plays is really bad.

http://theamerican.org/index.aspx?path=football
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oh shut the **** up about the American not being any good. There are 3 teams in the top 25, yes they are in the east, but in past seasons the West has been better. Put a team like Alabama or OSU in this conference and they are as tough as most of the Power 5....hell they could probably ***** slap the ACC or Big 12 and maybe even the Pac-12 this season....

Oliver has played well against every top team they faced in his first two seasons. They play USF in a few weeks and they should still be ranked in the top 25 and hopefully meet UCF in the title game and they are sitting at #10 right now
 
CoolieMan said:
oh shut the **** up about the American not being any good. There are 3 teams in the top 25, yes they are in the east, but in past seasons the West has been better. Put a team like Alabama or OSU in this conference and they are as tough as most of the Power 5....hell they could probably ***** slap the ACC or Big 12 and maybe even the Pac-12 this season....

Oliver has played well against every top team they faced in his first two seasons. They play USF in a few weeks and they should still be ranked in the top 25 and hopefully meet UCF in the title game and they are sitting at #10 right now
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Are you going to pimp that conference too? I wouldn't go there if I were you. Look at the teams in it. Most of the West is fodder, and you know it. I am familiar with UCF, that game will be a test, UCF is only rated where they are because of their conference. As soon as they get a loss, watch them fall behind the teams with one loss, maybe two.

But once again, great game vs Oliver, even if it was against one of the worst teams in a weaker conference. That hit he put on the QB just before the pass left early in the game was nice.
 
So Coach, Let me get this straight, your argument after yesterday is:

Oliver overpowered a weak opponent to put up monster stats

Conversely you've been arguing:

Oliver has done nothing against weaker opponents.

Now you are arguing with yourself...
 
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