Canada Will Return in 2023

[wig]

I tell you what, from my perspective. Cower had my loyalty the day he stuffed the overhead picture of the field into the ref's pocket. Those of you who know, know.

And if you want to compare Tomlin and Cowher in one of their less gracious moments. Mike Tomlin almost tripped. A guy running down the sideline. Cower reached up like he was going to punch him. That's MY coach. If you're gonna lose your cool, F'n A. Go all in!

 

[Drink IRON City]

I couldn't agree more, but Art is gonna do what he's gonna do. We know this. I'm just happy Kenny is happy at the moment and not all pissy. If after next year it's another 8-8-1, 9-8, my opinion is to clean house and REALLY start over. But, they don't care what I think, so it doesn't matter.

I totally hear yaz jiminoh, agree too. We can speak till we are weak and nothing would be affected in the STEELERS’ Franchise. I too, am curious as to how the offense will do. Maybe year three is the year O’Canada steps up big time.

I obviously hope like hell the offense / defense / coaching / scouting / Front Office / owner all step up, and lets not forget STs and STs coach.


Salute the nation

 

[diver]

I think Tomlin came into a very talented team that may have been a bit weary. And I'll accept the perhaps he did his cheerleader thing and the team got excited and found some gas in the tank. I can accept that. And I can even be thankful for it. That doesn't mean Tomlin has shown any glimmer of ability to win a SB now.
Hell, I don't have much faith in winning a wildcard round game.

Giving your analogy, you may catch a fish or two and then within a few more casts you will have untied the fly and thrown it out into the lake. Never to be found again. And you just keep fishing with the empty string.

Do not equate me believing that Tomlin should get credit for winning that Super Bowl with me thinking he should have a lifetime job as head coach of the Steelers. I will say it again, I would have moved on from Mike Tomlin. I wonder if the problem is that those of you who dislike him so much(as a coach) are so vehement in your dislike that any defense of Tomlin is thought of as undying support. It is not. I don't like the he won with Cowher players and staff argument. I think it's stupid. I don't like the coaching tree argument. Sure, Belechick has a tree, but big deal. So far they have all sucked. That ain't much of a damn tree. To be a tree, I would think there needs to be some success. I will continue to rail against those thoughts. To me what is valid is a discussion of the results we have seen. The Steelers haven't won a playoff game since 2016. When they do make it recently, they get blown the hell out. The results are enough for me to fire him. I don't need to manufacture arguments like he won with Cowher guys or coaching trees.

I don't think we can have any impact on what the Steelers do with the head coaching position, but I believe the powers that be are very happy when people are making arguments over he won with Cowher guys or coaching trees. It happens all the time in politics. Get the people arguing about points that are largely based on opinion so they lose sight of the facts that cannot be refuted. Like the results we have seen the last 6 years.

 

[fedderone]

Just read an interesting article by Mark Kaboly on The Athletic’s website. Locked behind paywall.
But in essence, Art II said Tomlin forced Canada to dumb down his offense. Tomlin was worried that the team was too young, especially with a rookie QB, to try and grasp the whole, or even partial, playbook.
Tomlin ordered Canada to keep it basic to keep turnovers low. No chances taken. Tomlin wanted mistake free football with the defense shouldering the load to keep the games close with a chance to win at the end.

Now, I’m not here trying to stick up for Canada, but just trying to be fair and make sure all facts are known.
It’s hard to tell someone to go fight, and then let them know they’ll be handicapped in that fight and you can only use your basic fighting techniques you know. None of the advanced techniques.

Our problems with Canada MAY be more issues with Tomlin instead.
We already knew Tomlin likes going over his OC/DCs head for play calling, this just cements that fact.
Tomlin won’t let his Coordinators do their jobs.
Now, good people adapt and overcome obstacles.
But most great minds are “crazy artist” types that are particular and have s specific vision. And most times when you hinder those types, and don’t give them free reign, they kinda “shut down” mentally.

With those words by Art II, I think they couldn’t scapegoat Canada because they knew it was really on Tomlin for not trusting “the kids”.

 

[topseed]

I can too, right? Or is it only the opinions you agree with.

Yeah, that's what we're here for.

Well, you would be wrong. You are not taking into account all of the stuff we never hear about that an NFL coach to deal with. There are only 32 of them you know...and not all of them are successful. Which means the ones that are successful are special. I am impressed with your arrogance.

All 3 of those coaches were coaching their teams when they won. They get the credit. No exceptions. It is an immature argument.

George Seifert went 98-30 with the 49ers and never had a losing season. Then he went 16-32 with Carolina and never had a winning season. I hate to be immature, but I'm willing to suggest that it was a San Francisco roster loaded with future Hall of Famers, not Seifert, who deserve the credit there.

Sure, Barry Switzer was "special." Whatever you say.

No...it's just that I realize that it is more than one thing.

No. You just said that Tomlin is special, and you love to blame the players for his failures every other chance you get. Carry on.

 

[topseed]

To compare ABs influence on that team that year with his influence in Pittsburgh is ridiculous. You seem to ignore the following year when they were much more dependent on him, hence his influence was greater, what happened.

Nah, what's ridiculous is purporting that Tomlin somehow took AB, in his prime, as far as he could go when they lost their first playoff game to Jacksonville at home as a 7-point favorite.

I laugh at the cover my *** comment. We are talking about football here, the Steelers specifically, which has next to no influence on my life unless they raise my blood pressure when watching them. I have no need to "cover my ***." It doesn't make sense.

Gee, you seem to spend a rather inordinate amount of time in here typing away about something which you claim has next to no influence on your life.

It makes perfect sense if you're a closet Tomlin lover, which I'm beginning to think more and more might be the case.

It is a go to line. It's a go to line because it is true. Do you realize what context I use it in? It is when people like you say things like "appease the masses" or my favorite is "sheep." Perhaps those statements might have merit...if we had any control. We don't, so they don't. Which again makes the statement true and completely relevant.

Saying over and over, on a football message board, that fans have no control over what the Steelers do is annoyingly redundant. And stupid, frankly. No matter what the context is. We all know that already, chief. We all understand that we have zero influence on what the team will do, but we come here to discuss it anyway. Give it a break.

 

[topseed]

that would be like them losing Chase, half their offense is gone.

The Bengals went 3-1 in the four games which Chase missed, scoring 112 points.

 

[MT~Forged]

Maybe. But as I read it, people are unwilling to give Tomlin any credit for that championship. You have acknowledged I should get credit for the fish caught. At the end of the day it doesn't matter whose fly I used, or what advice I got, I still had to catch the fish. I still had to close the deal. Tomlin did that and deserves the credit for it. I could give a **** less about the semantics, I am just glad he did.

The point I have tried to make over the years is the Tomlin did enough to NOT LOSE, he was a decent “Team Manager“. Yes he gets credit for the wins, period, end of story. What people can’t seem to understand is that he did well enough to win with a team created by another, ala Switzer & Seifert.

Since that time, he has done poorly, and in some cases, extremely poor. He has been mediocre at best, and no longer has Dan Rooney, nor Cowher to build the team that he can win with. He achieved his ceiling years ago, and that doesn’t discount how hard he maybe trying, but he maxed out and Ownership is more than willing to accept that. I truly believe that AR2 is COMPLETELY fine with that. The money is rolling, media idiots are not questioning it, and the FANS still fill the seats and cheer for non losing seasons.

The team’s problems are multi-faceted, and require multiple step solutions. But, make no mistake, the biggest mistake lies in the Owner’s willingness to accept mediocrity. Followed right on it’s heals by the PAYING fanbase also WILLINGLY eating the offered “**** sandwich“.

 

[diver]

Yeah, that's what we're here for.

George Seifert went 98-30 with the 49ers and never had a losing season. Then he went 16-32 with Carolina and never had a winning season. I hate to be immature, but I'm willing to suggest that it was a San Francisco roster loaded with future Hall of Famers, not Seifert, who deserve the credit there.

Sure, Barry Switzer was "special." Whatever you say.

No. You just said that Tomlin is special, and you love to blame the players for his failures every other chance you get. Carry on.

And there it is. Chuck Noll said it was the players who deserved the credit. That is why he wouldn't do commercials and the like. It was about the players. I agree with that completely. They should get the credit...they play. But it works the other way, too. You talk about me "covering my ***." You sure as hell did that in this post. "It's the players!" with Seifert. "It's the coach!" with Tomlin.

 

[xjx]

I think Tomlin is on the same level as Jeff fisher or RonRivera. Nice guy, knows football and always a middle of the road team.

 

[diver]

Nah, what's ridiculous is purporting that Tomlin somehow took AB, in his prime, as far as he could go when they lost their first playoff game to Jacksonville at home as a 7-point favorite.

Gee, you seem to spend a rather inordinate amount of time in here typing away about something which you claim has next to no influence on your life.

It makes perfect sense if you're a closet Tomlin lover, which I'm beginning to think more and more might be the case.

Saying over and over, on a football message board, that fans have no control over what the Steelers do is annoyingly redundant. And stupid, frankly. No matter what the context is. We all know that already, chief. We all understand that we have zero influence on what the team will do, but we come here to discuss it anyway. Give it a break.

As per AB...that's fine. We will just disagree on that. Granted, Tampa won a Super Bowl, which supports your argument. It fell apart less than a year later. Tomlin kept it together and the Steelers competitive for 7-8 years with the guy. I think that fact supports mine.

Yes! You have exposed me! I am closet Tomlin lover. Shhh. Don't tell anyone.

Perhaps I am being redundant. Guilty as charged. However, coming from you who has whined incessantly about Mike Tomlin...a little hypocritical, huh?

 

[diver]

The point I have tried to make over the years is the Tomlin did enough to NOT LOSE, he was a decent “Team Manager“. Yes he gets credit for the wins, period, end of story. What people can’t seem to understand is that he did well enough to win with a team created by another, ala Switzer & Seifert.

Since that time, he has done poorly, and in some cases, extremely poor. He has been mediocre at best, and no longer has Dan Rooney, nor Cowher to build the team that he can win with. He achieved his ceiling years ago, and that doesn’t discount how hard he maybe trying, but he maxed out and Ownership is more than willing to accept that. I truly believe that AR2 is COMPLETELY fine with that. The money is rolling, media idiots are not questioning it, and the FANS still fill the seats and cheer for non losing seasons.

The team’s problems are multi-faceted, and require multiple step solutions. But, make no mistake, the biggest mistake lies in the Owner’s willingness to accept mediocrity. Followed right on it’s heals by the PAYING fanbase also WILLINGLY eating the offered “**** sandwich“.

Look, all I am saying, and have said consistently is that whoever is the coach of a team when they win should get the credit for being the coach when they win. It ain't that hard. Does that mean a lifetime appointment as head coach? Absolutely not. Don't confuse it as such. I just think it is a petty argument. The way some fixate on that...it's almost as if they cannot enjoy the fact that they won. Shiit, in an earlier post I had to read about Tomlin having he easiest path to a championship ever. Who cares!? They won! It was so fun that year.

As per the last part, what do you propose we do about it? Are you part of the fanbase that is willing to eat a shiit sandwich? Do you watch, or go to the games or whatever? If you do, you are part of it, just like me. Or is it other people who need to stand up and not eat the shiit sandwich? Not to bring politics into things, but I just read this am about some idiot Superintendent out in Arizona who is white, and is all whining about white privilege. But I notice he ain't giving up his job. I guess that is for other, less enlightened white people.

 

[Steelr4evr]

That’s what was infuriating though. We KNEW what they were going to do, yet DLB was powerless to stop it. ONE TIME DLB changed up and played man coverage with a good blitz and we won, finally thought we found a way to beat them, then the next time he went back to zone blitz and got his *** kicked again.

That stuff never made sense. A lot of things don't make sense if you're looking at it as a real sport. The only way I make sense of the game now is that it is an entertainment product. At the end of the day it's all about making money. Ridiculous sums of money are involved. The money will win. As long as the product is making insanely good money all is well.


Does anyone really think the Pats***** are legit. From 2000-20020 they either played in the AFCCG or the Superbowl 13 times. Winning 6 superbowls and losing 3. That's 9 superbowls in that span.

I just enjoy it for what it is and will ***** about things I can never change. Just for the hell of it.

 

[TDX27]

Just read an interesting article by Mark Kaboly on The Athletic’s website. Locked behind paywall.
But in essence, Art II said Tomlin forced Canada to dumb down his offense. Tomlin was worried that the team was too young, especially with a rookie QB, to try and grasp the whole, or even partial, playbook.
Tomlin ordered Canada to keep it basic to keep turnovers low. No chances taken. Tomlin wanted mistake free football with the defense shouldering the load to keep the games close with a chance to win at the end.

Now, I’m not here trying to stick up for Canada, but just trying to be fair and make sure all facts are known.
It’s hard to tell someone to go fight, and then let them know they’ll be handicapped in that fight and you can only use your basic fighting techniques you know. None of the advanced techniques.

Our problems with Canada MAY be more issues with Tomlin instead.
We already knew Tomlin likes going over his OC/DCs head for play calling, this just cements that fact.
Tomlin won’t let his Coordinators do their jobs.
Now, good people adapt and overcome obstacles.
But most great minds are “crazy artist” types that are particular and have s specific vision. And most times when you hinder those types, and don’t give them free reign, they kinda “shut down” mentally.

With those words by Art II, I think they couldn’t scapegoat Canada because they knew it was really on Tomlin for not trusting “the kids”.

I have no problem with that article. I think it is very much true. Tomlin always says he doesn't live in his fears but he absolutely does. He should be a politician with how much of a hypocrite he is on that issue alone. The full offense still probably won't be in full effect next year.

 

[slashsteel]

I have no problem with that article. I think it is very much true. Tomlin always says he doesn't live in his fears but he absolutely does. He should be a politician with how much of a hypocrite he is on that issue alone. The full offense still probably won't be in full effect next year.

If it is true then it is Tomlin handcuffing the offense. You don't sharpen the sword playing it safe. You don't get to the playoffs and win playoff games playing it safe.

Now if it was just the initial instructions for Kenny I would understand it more. If it was seasonal long, well then we need a new coach.

Fail to win a playoff game this year and it is 100 percent on Tomlin. You have an experienced roster returning. An extra high draft pick, better draft positioning, more draft heads than normal, free agency to shore up weak spots on the roster plus retaining their own or upgrading free agent capability.

No excuses. Anything less than a playoff win is failure.

 

[Drink IRON City]

Just read an interesting article by Mark Kaboly on The Athletic’s website. Locked behind paywall.
But in essence, Art II said Tomlin forced Canada to dumb down his offense. Tomlin was worried that the team was too young, especially with a rookie QB, to try and grasp the whole, or even partial, playbook.
Tomlin ordered Canada to keep it basic to keep turnovers low. No chances taken. Tomlin wanted mistake free football with the defense shouldering the load to keep the games close with a chance to win at the end.

Now, I’m not here trying to stick up for Canada, but just trying to be fair and make sure all facts are known.
It’s hard to tell someone to go fight, and then let them know they’ll be handicapped in that fight and you can only use your basic fighting techniques you know. None of the advanced techniques.

Our problems with Canada MAY be more issues with Tomlin instead.
We already knew Tomlin likes going over his OC/DCs head for play calling, this just cements that fact.
Tomlin won’t let his Coordinators do their jobs.
Now, good people adapt and overcome obstacles.
But most great minds are “crazy artist” types that are particular and have s specific vision. And most times when you hinder those types, and don’t give them free reign, they kinda “shut down” mentally.

With those words by Art II, I think they couldn’t scapegoat Canada because they knew it was really on Tomlin for not trusting “the kids”.

More proof in the pudding that can’t get put back into the box…….

When O’Canada first got here, remember that they wouldn’t let BEN audible out or call an audible for the first 4-5 weeks of the season. How crazy was that, but it could support that article And bode to that YOUNG offensive line of the time. MY biggest concern at that time was, why the hell wasn’t it worked on during training camp (audibles). Was O’Canada not smart enough to install at least a few base type ones…….. or was that too, Coach Tomlin’s orders to strap a HOF quarterback ?


GREAT post fedderone and thanks for all you great ones along the way.



Salute the nation

 

[fedderone]

If it is true then it is Tomlin handcuffing the offense. You don't sharpen the sword playing it safe. You don't get to the playoffs and win playoff games playing it safe.

Now if it was just the initial instructions for Kenny I would understand it more. If it was seasonal long, well then we need a new coach.

Fail to win a playoff game this year and it is 100 percent on Tomlin. You have an experienced roster returning. An extra high draft pick, better draft positioning, more draft heads than normal, free agency to shore up weak spots on the roster plus retaining their own or upgrading free agent capability.

No excuses. Anything less than a playoff win is failure.

This.
Kenny almost got a full year ( 13ish games ).
Same with Pickens.
Kenny and Pickens year 2.
Najee and Muth year 3.
DJ and O-Line experienced vets ( as it stands now before draft/FA ).
There should be zero handcuffing/dumbing down........and there should be zero Tomlin overrides to Canada.

 

[Drink IRON City]

This.
Kenny almost got a full year ( 13ish games ).
Same with Pickens.
Kenny and Pickens year 2.
Najee and Muth year 3.
DJ and O-Line experienced vets ( as it stands now before draft/FA ).
There should be zero handcuffing/dumbing down........and there should be zero Tomlin overrides to Canada.

YOU and I both know that the Tomlin “override” will always be there.


Salute the nation

 

[slashsteel]

This.
Kenny almost got a full year ( 13ish games ).
Same with Pickens.
Kenny and Pickens year 2.
Najee and Muth year 3.
DJ and O-Line experienced vets ( as it stands now before draft/FA ).
There should be zero handcuffing/dumbing down........and there should be zero Tomlin overrides to Canada.

I also have read enough on Rooney for me to start to tire of him. Everything from not going all in, to offense excuses, etc. If your base is to just be competitive then you won't achieve anything more than that. If that.

When I say it is all on Tomlin this upcoming season I meant that. But if it ends with fail and then Tomlin is retained further I then point the finger to Rooney.

The desire has to be more than just being competitive. Everyone is just a little too comfy in their shoes, I am seeing a lack of urgency. Very concerning for a fan that wants more than a participation trophy.

 

[wig]

And there it is. Chuck Noll said it was the players who deserved the credit. That is why he wouldn't do commercials and the like. It was about the players. I agree with that completely. They should get the credit...they play. But it works the other way, too. You talk about me "covering my ***." You sure as hell did that in this post. "It's the players!" with Seifert. "It's the coach!" with Tomlin.

I'd say the Steelers haven't drafted a full on stud since T.J.it IS the players. Most of them aren't extraordinary and the coaching staff seems completely incapable of developing talent anymore.

So ya. It's the players... That the coaches & staff can neither draft well or improve through teaching/coaching.

 

[diver]

I'd say the Steelers haven't drafted a full on stud since T.J.it IS the players. Most of them aren't extraordinary and the coaching staff seems completely incapable of developing talent anymore.

So ya. It's the players... That the coaches & staff can neither draft well or improve through teaching/coaching.

It's both. I truly believe that. My whole point is I don't think you can just point to one thing. I think some do that. I think it is a combination of coaches, players and front office. It has to be a broad approach to fixing things and getting back to being true contenders.

 

[TDX27]

More proof in the pudding that can’t get put back into the box…….

When O’Canada first got here, remember that they wouldn’t let BEN audible out or call an audible for the first 4-5 weeks of the season. How crazy was that, but it could support that article And bode to that YOUNG offensive line of the time. MY biggest concern at that time was, why the hell wasn’t it worked on during training camp (audibles). Was O’Canada not smart enough to install at least a few base type ones…….. or was that too, Coach Tomlin’s orders to strap a HOF quarterback ?


GREAT post fedderone and thanks for all you great ones along the way.



Salute the nation

And they also got rid of the hurry-up/no-huddle offense. That was beyond mind-blowing for me. I can't believe that was Tomlin's decision. He can't be that dumb, can he? The hurry-up/no-huddle and Ben audibling were the team's bread and butter for most of Ben's career.

 

[Drink IRON City]

And they also got rid of the hurry-up/no-huddle offense. That was beyond mind-blowing for me. I can't believe that was Tomlin's decision. He can't be that dumb, can he? The hurry-up/no-huddle and Ben audibling were the team's bread and butter for most of Ben's career.

A-N-D

Some here say BEN was washed up,....... well take away 1/2 the arsinal and most QBs are washed up regardless of age.


Salute the nation

 

[jiminoh]

Just read an interesting article by Mark Kaboly on The Athletic’s website. Locked behind paywall.
But in essence, Art II said Tomlin forced Canada to dumb down his offense. Tomlin was worried that the team was too young, especially with a rookie QB, to try and grasp the whole, or even partial, playbook.
Tomlin ordered Canada to keep it basic to keep turnovers low. No chances taken. Tomlin wanted mistake free football with the defense shouldering the load to keep the games close with a chance to win at the end.

Now, I’m not here trying to stick up for Canada, but just trying to be fair and make sure all facts are known.
It’s hard to tell someone to go fight, and then let them know they’ll be handicapped in that fight and you can only use your basic fighting techniques you know. None of the advanced techniques.

Our problems with Canada MAY be more issues with Tomlin instead.
We already knew Tomlin likes going over his OC/DCs head for play calling, this just cements that fact.
Tomlin won’t let his Coordinators do their jobs.
Now, good people adapt and overcome obstacles.
But most great minds are “crazy artist” types that are particular and have s specific vision. And most times when you hinder those types, and don’t give them free reign, they kinda “shut down” mentally.

With those words by Art II, I think they couldn’t scapegoat Canada because they knew it was really on Tomlin for not trusting “the kids”.

Thanks for posting that. I'll go read it and maybe, just maybe (hopefully) Canada isn't that stupid after all. It does fit in with what's been said in the past about Tomlin controlling the defensive plays, so it makes sense he would do the same and hamstring the OC.

A-N-D

Some here say BEN was washed up,....... well take away 1/2 the arsinal and most QBs are washed up regardless of age.


Salute the nation

Ben's legs slowed down for sure, but even in his final years he was still able to put up what seems like 25 points without me fact-checking. And closer to 30 or more when he did things his way (audibles, etc), especially in the 2nd half when the chains came off in the hurry up mode. I could be wrong, but didn't Kenny do something similar?

 

[tapeANaspirin2it]

Just read an interesting article by Mark Kaboly on The Athletic’s website. Locked behind paywall.
But in essence, Art II said Tomlin forced Canada to dumb down his offense. Tomlin was worried that the team was too young, especially with a rookie QB, to try and grasp the whole, or even partial, playbook.
Tomlin ordered Canada to keep it basic to keep turnovers low. No chances taken. Tomlin wanted mistake free football with the defense shouldering the load to keep the games close with a chance to win at the end.

Now, I’m not here trying to stick up for Canada, but just trying to be fair and make sure all facts are known.
It’s hard to tell someone to go fight, and then let them know they’ll be handicapped in that fight and you can only use your basic fighting techniques you know. None of the advanced techniques.

Our problems with Canada MAY be more issues with Tomlin instead.
We already knew Tomlin likes going over his OC/DCs head for play calling, this just cements that fact.
Tomlin won’t let his Coordinators do their jobs.
Now, good people adapt and overcome obstacles.
But most great minds are “crazy artist” types that are particular and have s specific vision. And most times when you hinder those types, and don’t give them free reign, they kinda “shut down” mentally.

With those words by Art II, I think they couldn’t scapegoat Canada because they knew it was really on Tomlin for not trusting “the kids”.

If that's true then it's ridiculous. It tells me that Tomlin's top priority was maintaining his non-losing record. That's the goal over developing young players.

As for Canada, even if Tomlin did handcuff him, he still could have done more than he did.