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Charleston shooting.

So the Civil War, which pushed our young country to the brink killing hundreds of thousands, was fought not to preserve the Union and end slavery.... but to line the pockets of farm equipment factory owners. I have to say I've never heard that one. So Abraham Lincoln wasn't one of, if not THE greatest, Presidents in history ... He instead was an evil genocidal maniac willing to see the country stressed to the breaking point just to help some businessmen in the north get rich. If what you're saying is true, then his place in history isn't with the Washington's, the Roosevelt's, the Reagan's of the world...but rather the Hitler's, the Stalin's, the Mao's .... Somebody needs to grab a jackhammer and some dynamite and head on out to Mt. Rushmore tooth sweet!!

It is important to go right to the source, not as much what some historian somewhere thinks.

On Dec. 20, 1860, South Carolina voted to secede from the Union. Why is the big debate. 4 days after this vote they wrote a document called the Declaration of Causes. The overriding theme of this was document was the Federal Government infringing upon their rights to hold slaves. Statements were used such as: "they (Federal Government) have denounced as sinful the institution of slavery", "elected a President of the United States whose opinions and purposes are hostile to Slavery", and condemned the Republican Party for taking a position that "a war must be waged against Slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States."

No one is debating that there were other issues. There were. However, slavery is what made the engine go.

Also, to be clear. The poor Southern soldier wasn't fighting because or for slaves. This was the desire of the planter class, the elites of the South. But as we well know, they drive policy, and have forever.
 
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Last thing I will say on this, and why I am passionate about it.

The lesson learned from this is the the elites have been getting us common folk to do their bidding for far to long. It needs to end. But first we must recognize it. Each side, liberal or conservative, Republican or Democrat has elites that do all they can to keep the common folk in some form of conflict. This is the way to keep control. Because they damn well know if we would ever get together, we would destroy them.

I am white. I have a hell of a lot more in common with my black neighbor down the street, and he with I, then either of us do with Hillary Clinton or Jeb Bush. Both of us everyday are just trying to get by, work, pay our bills, be good parents and so on. I don't think either of us see the world the way the politicians are seeing it right now.
 
So the Civil War, which pushed our young country to the brink killing hundreds of thousands, was fought not to preserve the Union and end slavery.... but to line the pockets of farm equipment factory owners. I have to say I've never heard that one. So Abraham Lincoln wasn't one of, if not THE greatest, Presidents in history ... He instead was an evil genocidal maniac willing to see the country stressed to the breaking point just to help some businessmen in the north get rich. If what you're saying is true, then his place in history isn't with the Washington's, the Roosevelt's, the Reagan's of the world...but rather the Hitler's, the Stalin's, the Mao's .... Somebody needs to grab a jackhammer and some dynamite and head on out to Mt. Rushmore tooth sweet!!

Roll, my suggestion is you just step right out of this thread. You know those moments when you feel embarrassed for someone else who's performing? This is one of those moments.

Do you even know what you meant to say when you inferred that someone should go to Mt. Rushmore "tooth sweet?" Perhaps you do/did. It means to go quickly, rapidly, immediately. Do you know that the phrase is French, tout suite...not TOOTH SWEET? Good Lord man. SMH.

You challenge that the Civil War was fought to "line the pockets of farm equipment factory owners." Well here you go.

http://americanhistory.about.com/od/civilwarmenu/a/cause_civil_war.htm

Top Five Causes of the Civil War

1. Economic and social differences between the North and the South.

With Eli Whitney's invention of the cotton gin in 1793, cotton became very profitable. This machine was able to reduce the time it took to separate seeds from the cotton. However, at the same time the increase in the number of plantations willing to move from other crops to cotton meant the greater need for a large amount of cheap labor, i.e. slaves. Thus, the southern economy became a one crop economy, depending on cotton and therefore on slavery.

On the other hand, the northern economy was based more on industry than agriculture. In fact, the northern industries were purchasing the raw cotton and turning it into finished goods. This disparity between the two set up a major difference in economic attitudes. The South was based on the plantation system while the North was focused on city life. This change in the North meant that society evolved as people of different cultures and classes had to work together. On the other hand, the South continued to hold onto an antiquated social order.

2. States versus federal rights.

Since the time of the Revolution, two camps emerged: those arguing for greater states rights and those arguing that the federal government needed to have more control. The first organized government in the US after the American Revolution was under the Articles of Confederation. The thirteen states formed a loose confederation with a very weak federal government. However, when problems arose, the weaknesses of the Articles caused the leaders of the time to come together at the Constitutional Convention and create, in secret, the US Constitution.

Strong proponents of states rights like Thomas Jefferson and Patrick Henry were not present at this meeting. Many felt that the new constitution ignored the rights of states to continue to act independently. They felt that the states should still have the right to decide if they were willing to accept certain federal acts. This resulted in the idea of nullification, whereby the states would have the right to rule federal acts unconstitutional. The federal government denied states this right. However, proponents such as John C. Calhoun fought vehemently for nullification. When nullification would not work and states felt that they were no longer respected, they moved towards secession.

Yep, business reasons, right up there as ole' #1.
 
In a mega-colossal-******-up way that is either going to open up real dialogue or further divide this nation. We have stepped across the lunacy line.

Berm, I can't imagine what that flag means to you when you see it. I KNOW what it means when I see it. I think we share one common view of that flag, and that is that it is reprehensible.

But what is FAR more reprehensible is moving towards the silencing of voices and opinions. I WANT people to be able to wave that despicable flag, and appear fools in so doing, because it means that fool and I still have our freedoms.

When he has his voice silenced, mine isn't too far down the road from being next in line because "my personal taste" on something doesn't agree with someone else's tastes. Who gets to define what is acceptable and normal any more? Big Government? Our Media (LOL)? Hildabeast? We are stepping towards oppression.

Laugh if you will.

I honestly believe that you are right. I've, long ago, given up the idea of "world unity" - heck, nationwide unity. What I don't want to give up though, like yourself, is my freedoms (that I fought to defend whilst in the Army).
 
I never paid any attention to the rebel flag, because I'm a Yankee transplant ...I guess. All of a sudden, I want a confederate flag. Maybe 'cause they will go up in value or because I just like being opposite the flow ?

When you get a chance, if you haven't already, take a trip down I-4 to the I-75 junction. I did that last year. To say I was shocked---was a gross understatement...

http://www.tampabay.com/news/huge-confederate-flag-is-raised-early-along-i-75-and-i-4/605727
 
When you get a chance, if you haven't already, take a trip down I-4 to the I-75 junction. I did that last year. To say I was shocked---was a gross understatement...


still flying

admin-0002445.jpg



Giant Confederate battle flag visible from I-75 in spotlight again

TAMPA — Tampa’s mayor says it’s time for the huge Confederate battle flag flying near a heavily traveled Hillsborough intersection to go.

But the only way the flag will come down is in a hurricane, says the leader of a local Confederate history group that maintains the flag and flagpole.

Even then, the world’s largest battle flag would rise again, said David McAllister, commander of the Judah P. Benjamin Camp, the local chapter of the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

“We all sympathize with the poor victims of Charleston, but the flag did not cause that to happen,” McAllister said Monday. “That was a horrible crime done by a mentally ill criminal responsible for his own actions, and people calling for gun and flag limitations in response are standing against the American Constitution. The flag shouldn’t remind people of a bad thing, but remind them that bad times were overcome.”

http://tbo.com/news/breaking-news/i...huge-battle-flag-again-in-spotlight-20150622/
 
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This is neither Orwellian or erasing history.

I think it is more the Golden Rule, Do Onto Others as You Would Like Done Onto You

Would you wave a Nazi flag at a Jewish person or WWII Veteran? if not, Why would you wave a flag that signifies support of slavery and succession at someone that
would be offended by that?

I never gave this flag much thought as a Caucasian American, but now that I think about it I find that flag offensive to me personally. Succession and slavery are un-American, if you
want a flag take it and find a new home. Putin might welcome you.
 
This is neither Orwellian or erasing history.

I think it is more the Golden Rule, Do Onto Others as You Would Like Done Onto You

Would you wave a Nazi flag at a Jewish person or WWII Veteran? if not, Why would you wave a flag that signifies support of slavery and succession at someone that
would be offended by that?

I never gave this flag much thought as a Caucasian American, but now that I think about it I find that flag offensive to me personally. Succession and slavery are un-American, if you
want a flag take it and find a new home. Putin might welcome you.

What flag was flying when slavery was legal pre-EP? Shouldn't it be taken down as well? Or does your sense of "do unto others" only go as far as your ideology?
 
I am offended by the rainbow symbol

It says to me " If you do not embrace the Gay Lifestyle and Praise the LBGT agenda, then you are evil.. "

I guess I won't be living in Seattle

Seattle's mayor unveils rainbow crosswalks

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What flag was flying when slavery was legal? Shouldn't it be taken down as well?

Oh don't worry, the Stars and Bars will be next...the Left hates that one even more


Farrakhan: I Don’t Get Debate Over Confederate Flag, ‘We Need to Put the American Flag Down’


The racist leader of the Nation of Islam told a largely black audience in Washington, D.C. that "we need to put the American flag down" because "we've caught as much hell under that as the Confederate flag."

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/06/farrakhan_we_need_to_put_the_american_flag_down.html
 
I don't see the Confederate flag like the media and the politicians see it. I look at it as one of the last symbols of States Rights that we have going for us. Maybe they do see it as a threat to their power and that is why there is such fervor to take ol Dixie down for the last time.

Again I don't see it as a symbol of hatred towards black people but I'm not Black. I'm a White guy who tries to get along with everyone no matter what their skin color is. I take people for what they are. If you are a good person White, Black or whatever I'll call you a friend, if you are a jerk and don't at least have simple respect for others, I don't want to waste my time trying to get to know you.

I think the Charleston Tragedy should have brought us all together as a nation, instead the powers that be are using it to drive a bigger wedge. This is reprehensible in my eyes. Much more so than a flag which united those who fought for States Rights over an overreaching Federal government. Funny how times change but things are still very much the same.
 
Every Democrat who voted against the 1964 Civil Rights Bill should have their buildings and statues removed immediately. Start with Democrat KKK leader Senator Robert Byrd of WV who filibustered the vote. I'm offended!
 
Just saw a sticker for Topsail Island that used the confederate flag as a background. It was on a Honda Odyssey in an upper-middle class high school parking lot. I suppose the owner might be a hardcore racist, but I seriously doubt it.
 
Seen on FB today:

Tylenol.jpg
South Carolina is now banning the sale of Tylenol and other OTC medications that use cotton in their bottles for fear of perpetuating slavery by making people pick it out
 
Anyone remember the 1980s fashion trend of kamikaze shirts? Nobody freaked out about that as I remember.
 
There will always be someone offended about something..

no pancakes for you

Can We Please, Finally, Get Rid of ‘Aunt Jemima’?

Amid the current efforts to remove the Confederate flag as a symbol from state and federal buildings and to divest from its commercial circulation as a product and commodity, it is also important to remember that a host of products lining grocery store shelves to this day, including Aunt Jemima Pancake Mix and Aunt Jemima Syrup, are also very much linked to Southern racism.

http://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebat.../can-we-please-finally-get-rid-of-aunt-jemima
 
And you just know Colonel Saunders was a racist ******* that capitalized on his victims!
 
I never paid any attention to the rebel flag, because I'm a Yankee transplant ...I guess. All of a sudden, I want a confederate flag.


there's one guy left



This Confederate Store Owner Is Thrilled the ‘Big Boys’ Don’t Want to Sell Flag


Major U.S. retailers say they’re done selling the Confederate flag—but Dewey Barber is just getting started.

—he plans to begin manufacturing the Confederate flag and add it to the lineup on his Dixie Outfitters website, now that the “big boys” are out of the business.

http://time.com/3933820/dixie-outfitters-confederate-flag-retailer/
 
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