Covid Vaccine

[Troglodyte]

Someone is simply trying to make sense of your mindless meanderings.

You're now saying the Dollar Store is the cause of obesity.

What part of “one cause” don’t you understand?

No regard for processed/cheap/low calorie foods purchased at Safeway, PigglyWiggly, 7-Eleven, WaWa, Racetrak or any of a million other convenience/food stores. No regard for lack of exercise.

Read the study, Tim. It discusses the growing trend of rural areas basically being forced to rely on dollar stores as grocery stores. They don’t have a Safeway. You’re just disagreeing for disagreement sake like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

For Flogtard, obesity is due to Dollar Stores.

The world of You Can't Make this **** Up

Read the study and tell me where they are wrong.

 

[Troglodyte]

being 6'1", 230 pounds, your fat *** obviously made quite a few stops to get your powered donuts and Mtn Dew.

you must be a wee man like Tiny Tim and Steeltime.

 

[fedderone]

What difference does it make which part of Appalachia? Drove through all of them north of Georgia. Are you denying Appalachia is largely rural and poor?

In the words of......you :

Uh, why not read the words I provided and reply in an articulate manner?

 

[Superman]

you must be a wee man like Tiny Tim and Steeltime.

nah, hardly. i, too, was once a fat tub of **** like you in your current clueless state of miserableness. like you, i'm also 6'1". So, yes, you ARE a fat ***. Keep chugging those powdered donuts and washing them down with Mtn Dew, you fat ****.

 

[Troglodyte]

Yep. Evidence Floggy provides (when he rarely does) is typically non-sensical like this.

He broad-brush generalizes then says dumbass **** like "you can drive for an hour and the only business you see is a dollar store." Yeah, when you're passing through and observing cities and towns from an interstate or highway (without stopping off and driving around) and you have no spare brain cells to rub together, you conclude "I saw a Dollar General and nothing else so there are no grocery stores."

Can’t get to Blowing Rock, NC just taking interstates, You’re clueless in your assumption.

 

[Troglodyte]

In the words of......you :

Uh, why not read the words I provided and reply in an articulate manner?

What, my destination? Blowing Rock and Boone NC. Yes, Appalachia. Now read the study and tell me where they are wrong.

 

[Stewey]

somebody got their feelings hurt again. So much anger. So much derangement.

In his rambling post Fedderone mentioned cause vs cure. What’s causing obesity? Yes, when the dollar store is the grocery store and all a person is eating is processed garbage, that can absolutely cause obesity.

I’ve driven through all of those places, what does that have to do with anything?

No Trog, stores, fast food joints, etc. do not cause obesity.
They may be the source, but not the cause. You are the cause of your obesity.

I've been overweight quite a few times throughout my life and blame nobody but myself.

It's called personal responsibility. You liberals don't like that term.

 

[Troglodyte]

No Trog, stores, fast food joints, etc. do not cause obesity.
They may be the source, but not the cause. You are the cause of your obesity.

I've been overweight quite a few times throughout my life and blame nobody but myself.

It's called personal responsibility. You liberals don't like that term.

Not the point of the study now was it?

“Personal responsibility” says the guy crying about insurrectionist being jailed.

 

[Confluence]

WTF???

https://researchgate.net/publication/377266988_Excess_Deaths_in_the_United_Kingdom_Midazolam_and_Euthanasia_in_the_COVID-19_Pandemic

https://www.researchgate.net/public...uthanasia_in_the_COVID-19_Pandemic#references

Abstract​

Macro-data during the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom (UK) are shown to have significant data anomalies and inconsistencies with existing explanations. This paper shows that the UK spike in deaths, wrongly attributed to COVID-19 in April 2020, was not due to SARS-CoV-2 virus, which was largely absent, but was due to the widespread use of Midazolam injections which were statistically very highly correlated (coefficient over 90 percent) with excess deaths in all regions of England during 2020. Importantly, excess deaths remained elevated following mass vaccination in 2021, but were statistically uncorrelated to COVID injections, while remaining significantly correlated to Midazolam injections. The widespread and persistent use of Midazolam in UK suggests a possible policy of systemic euthanasia. Unlike Australia, where assessing the statistical impact of COVID injections on excess deaths is relatively straightforward, UK excess deaths were closely associated with the use of Midazolam and other medical intervention. The iatrogenic pandemic in the UK was caused by euthanasia deaths from Midazolam and also, likely caused by COVID injections, but their relative impacts are difficult to measure from the data, due to causal proximity of euthanasia. Global investigations of COVID-19 epidemiology, based only on the relative impacts of COVID disease and vaccination, may be inaccurate, due to the neglect of significant confounding factors in some countries.

 

[oneforthebus]

I think it's more of this analogy....

If a person is living in a house full of broken glass on the floor, and they only walk around bare footed all day, eventually they're going to cut their foot and/or get glass embedded in their foot.
This person eventually will need to stop the bleeding and get the glass out so they go to their doctor.
Now, the doctor is going to remove the glass, stitch them up, put some bandaging on it, and send them on their way. The doctor has cleaned the wound and stopped the bleeding. They've done the bare minimum to help this patient, but they've nonetheless done their job.
Now, this same person goes home, kicks off their shoes, and doesn't clean up any of the glass. Back to the doctor.
At this point, a 1/2 decent doctor worth their paycheck would ask this patient what the heck is happening that they're back this soon with the same exact problem, while they patch them up again. And this doctor would now recommend the patient to put some shoes on, sweep up all the glass, take a vacuum out and make sure they got ALL the pieces, and don't haphazardly walk barefoot on top of broken glass anymore.
Now, can the doctor force the patient to do this? Can the doctor hold their family hostage at gunpoint and tell the patient if they don't follow their instructions, they'll start plugging their family members until they do?
There's this thing called PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
Your doctor, your family, your friends, etc. can point out the things that are hurting you.
But if you don't listen and don't make the necessary changes yourself, nothing will change.

And somebody above said some comparison along the lines of What's more unhealthy, taking a pill or eating a fast food combo?
Isn't it unhealthy to continue to eat the combo meals AFTER being prescribed the pill?
The pill is a band-aid. It's not a panacea.
It's the reason why I LOATHE things like "Race for the Cure" and anything else that wants to find a cure for something.
Why isn't there the "Race for the CAUSE"?! Why can't why find out what's causing these things to occur and work on eliminating those things?
And the answer to that riddle is the money is in the treatment, and continued treatment. There's no money in elimination or cure.
My family physician retired after treating me for most of my life and I was forced to find a new doctor.
I went to several that saw me as a paycheck and showed no interest in my actual health, and just wanted the income.
But I recognized this and kept looking until I found one that I actually thought put my health above all else.
I have no way of quantifying how many doctors are out for money vs how many are truly trying to help. But to think there aren't doctors that just seek a paycheck and don't actually care doesn't exist is foolish.
Turds come in all shapes, sizes, colors, political affiliation, gender, sexual preference, religious beliefs, and occupations.
Some people with seemingly benevolent jobs can actually not have your best interest at heart.
This is not a one size fits all broad swath against doctors.
But I work with thousands of doctors. It's easy to distinguish which ones care about their patients, and which care about their bank accounts.

I'm not suggesting any pill is a panacea.

Obesity carries risks. If a pill can reduce some of those risks, most doctors aren't really interested in playing the "let's see if you can't get this under control in the next year or two with diet and exercise" game. They want to reduce risks immediately with any tool at their disposal. If they don't, and patient comes back next year 50 pounds heavier, they have failed to provide any useful help to their patient.

Nobody is unaware of the causes of obesity. The fact is many, many people are unable or unwilling to eliminate those causes. Have been for years, even before Ozempic was a thing. So as a physician you're either going to do what you can for them while advising them to do what they should be doing, or you're going to say "You aren't worthy of help. Get back to me when you've proved you're not a lazy glutton." Most doctors will do what they can for a patient knowing that a lot of people just aren't going to do the rest. They certainly aren't telling anyone "Just take this pill and you can eat whatever you want!". They are reducing harm any way they can.

If you go in and say have sky high blood pressure, they are going to put you on meds. Even though if you lost 50 pounds you might be able to bring it down yourself. Because in the meantime high blood pressure is damaging your organs and putting you at risk of stroke and heart attack. If you can get to the point where you can come off the meds, great. But they aren't going to just leave you in a medically vulnerable state for months or years if they can help you sooner.

 

[fedderone]

What, my destination? Blowing Rock and Boone NC. Yes, Appalachia. Now read the study and tell me where they are wrong.

You still didn't provide answers to my questionS, because.....you're you, and you have no intention in entering into meaningful and civil discourse.
So I will do my best you and simply ignore you and your "demands" because I cannot give any courtesy nor respect to someone who clearly lacks both.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

There is no such thing as a pill or hasn't been since the early 20th century.

Sorry, pet peeve, carry on.

 

[ZonaBurgh]

I'm not suggesting any pill is a panacea.

Obesity carries risks. If a pill can reduce some of those risks, most doctors aren't really interested in playing the "let's see if you can't get this under control in the next year or two with diet and exercise" game. They want to reduce risks immediately with any tool at their disposal. If they don't, and patient comes back next year 50 pounds heavier, they have failed to provide any useful help to their patient.

Nobody is unaware of the causes of obesity. The fact is many, many people are unable or unwilling to eliminate those causes. Have been for years, even before Ozempic was a thing. So as a physician you're either going to do what you can for them while advising them to do what they should be doing, or you're going to say "You aren't worthy of help. Get back to me when you've proved you're not a lazy glutton." Most doctors will do what they can for a patient knowing that a lot of people just aren't going to do the rest. They certainly aren't telling anyone "Just take this pill and you can eat whatever you want!". They are reducing harm any way they can.

If you go in and say have sky high blood pressure, they are going to put you on meds. Even though if you lost 50 pounds you might be able to bring it down yourself. Because in the meantime high blood pressure is damaging your organs and putting you at risk of stroke and heart attack. If you can get to the point where you can come off the meds, great. But they aren't going to just leave you in a medically vulnerable state for months or years if they can help you sooner.

I don't know, there comes a time where a physician may just say no at a certain point. Not in specifically prescribing a medication, that's easy, but in treating the patient overall.
Stop smoking or I won't approve the by-pass surgery. You need to lose a certain amount of weight before your gastric surgery will be done.
Your age will prevent this procedure from being done, is the only factor outside of the patients control.

There has to be some effort, some accountability on the part of the patient. It's frustrating trying to help some one that has no interest in trying to help themselves, even in a small way, knowing that your efforts will not be successful.

 

[fedderone]

I'm not suggesting any pill is a panacea.

Obesity carries risks. If a pill can reduce some of those risks, most doctors aren't really interested in playing the "let's see if you can't get this under control in the next year or two with diet and exercise" game. They want to reduce risks immediately with any tool at their disposal. If they don't, and patient comes back next year 50 pounds heavier, they have failed to provide any useful help to their patient.

Nobody is unaware of the causes of obesity. The fact is many, many people are unable or unwilling to eliminate those causes. Have been for years, even before Ozempic was a thing. So as a physician you're either going to do what you can for them while advising them to do what they should be doing, or you're going to say "You aren't worthy of help. Get back to me when you've proved you're not a lazy glutton." Most doctors will do what they can for a patient knowing that a lot of people just aren't going to do the rest. They certainly aren't telling anyone "Just take this pill and you can eat whatever you want!". They are reducing harm any way they can.

If you go in and say have sky high blood pressure, they are going to put you on meds. Even though if you lost 50 pounds you might be able to bring it down yourself. Because in the meantime high blood pressure is damaging your organs and putting you at risk of stroke and heart attack. If you can get to the point where you can come off the meds, great. But they aren't going to just leave you in a medically vulnerable state for months or years if they can help you sooner.

100% yes absolutely.
NO doctor is going to not give the patient the meds. Clearly.
Nor do I think doctors are saying, "take this pill and eat whatever you'd like and there's no need for you to exercise."
But again, this is where personal responsibility comes into play.
Forks, spoons, knives, fast food restaurants, Dollar Generals, Walmarts, Food Saver, Mom & Pop Diners, etc. - These things do not CAUSE obesity.
Not all, but most obesity is self inflicted.
I don't feel like cooking and/or making a mess, so I'll order out.
Sour Patch Kids and Mountain Dew taste amazing, so I don't care what they do to me long term. They're not laced with cyanide or arsenic to kill me immediately, so it's cool.
I'm bored so I'm going to sit around and kill a Party Size Doritos with Jalapeño Cheddar Dip watching the game.
I did these things. I was 237 lbs at 5'9" and smoked at least a pack of cigarettes a day, or way more if I was drinking.
I was told by everyone under the sun I was killing myself by 1000 paper cuts and that I would have serious medical issues if I didn't change my lifestyle.
I eventually stopped smoking because I found God again. But I was still eating garbage.
Then I knocked the wife up and decided I wanted to be around to see my offspring make their life's journey as long as I could.
My reasons maybe only apply to me, but the point is I, ME had to make a conscious decision to change my life. I had to hit my rock bottom. I had to have some life altering event that kicked me in the teeth to change.
Bad habits are hard to quit/change. But we're the only ones that can make those changes. Nobody can do it for us.
So yeah, a doctor will give you the band-aid and fix the problem that has popped up that day.
But the doctor isn't going to follow you home and make sure you're following their advice.

 

[oneforthebus]

100% yes absolutely.
NO doctor is going to not give the patient the meds. Clearly.
Nor do I think doctors are saying, "take this pill and eat whatever you'd like and there's no need for you to exercise."
But again, this is where personal responsibility comes into play.
Forks, spoons, knives, fast food restaurants, Dollar Generals, Walmarts, Food Saver, Mom & Pop Diners, etc. - These things do not CAUSE obesity.
Not all, but most obesity is self inflicted.
I don't feel like cooking and/or making a mess, so I'll order out.
Sour Patch Kids and Mountain Dew taste amazing, so I don't care what they do to me long term. They're not laced with cyanide or arsenic to kill me immediately, so it's cool.
I'm bored so I'm going to sit around and kill a Party Size Doritos with Jalapeño Cheddar Dip watching the game.
I did these things. I was 237 lbs at 5'9" and smoked at least a pack of cigarettes a day, or way more if I was drinking.
I was told by everyone under the sun I was killing myself by 1000 paper cuts and that I would have serious medical issues if I didn't change my lifestyle.
I eventually stopped smoking because I found God again. But I was still eating garbage.
Then I knocked the wife up and decided I wanted to be around to see my offspring make their life's journey as long as I could.
My reasons maybe only apply to me, but the point is I, ME had to make a conscious decision to change my life. I had to hit my rock bottom. I had to have some life altering event that kicked me in the teeth to change.
Bad habits are hard to quit/change. But we're the only ones that can make those changes. Nobody can do it for us.
So yeah, a doctor will give you the band-aid and fix the problem that has popped up that day.
But the doctor isn't going to follow you home and make sure you're following their advice.

No one is arguing any of that. Good for you for doing it!

 

[oneforthebus]

I don't know, there comes a time where a physician may just say no at a certain point. Not in specifically prescribing a medication, that's easy, but in treating the patient overall.
Stop smoking or I won't approve the by-pass surgery. You need to lose a certain amount of weight before your gastric surgery will be done.
Your age will prevent this procedure from being done, is the only factor outside of the patients control.

There has to be some effort, some accountability on the part of the patient. It's frustrating trying to help some one that has no interest in trying to help themselves, even in a small way, knowing that your efforts will not be successful.

Generally they say no if the patient has a condition that would make the procedure dangerous and/or useless. They don’t usually say no based on a value judgement of the patient’s behavior.
Having had two raging alcoholic parents I’m well acquainted with the frustrations of people who won’t do what they need to do to save themselves.

 

[Steeltime]

I’ve never disagreed that overeating and lack of exercise causes most obesity. I’ve only said there are factors that make it more difficult for some.
I don’t think anyone is being told the pill is the best or only way to lose weight. It’s a tool, and again, I’ve never heard a doctor say “Don’t worry about diet and exercise, this pill will fix everything!” That’s a figment of some of your imaginations.

Obesity as some of you have mentioned causes all kinds of health issues. If there’s a pill that can get people’s weight down a bit and help reduce some of these issues why would it bother you if someone takes it? Because you attribute their failure to lose weight as some kind of moral failing? And therefore they must prove that they tried and failed 14 times before being allowed to try an effective treatment? While their obesity negatively affects many aspects of their health? Are you also mad if doctors put people on blood pressure medicine quickly even though they could in months or years reduce their blood pressure through diet and exercise, but in the meantime they might have a stroke or heart attack?

Some people for whatever reason need help losing weight. Why do you care if they get it?

Your two posts nearly contradict one another "I don't think the pill is the best way to lose weight" then "Why would it bother you if someone takes it?" Your first comment answers the second to some extent, but note that I am aware (not bothered, since it's not me or my family or anyone I know really) that the pill will NOT address the underlying problem. It won't. The pill unfortunately acts as an excuse for the vast majority. "I'm obese because of [something other than diet and exercise] so I'm on medication for the condition."

Unless the obese person fundamentally changes his or her life, the pill will change nothing and instead operate as a palliative that makes the person think that the problem has been addressed. "I've lost 15 pounds!" Yeah, and those are coming back unless you change your lifestyle.

The fat are fat due to diet and exercise and the obese are obese due to diet and exercise. The pill does not change diet or exercise. Yes, we all prefer the easy way but the easy way is never the better way for how we live our life. It's easier to drop out of high school, or college, or nursing school than to finish. It's easier to eat processed foods and sugary foods than make meals. It's easier to sit on the couch and watch TV than go to the gym and lift or go outside and run. It's easier to take a pill than to change your diet and exercise. And we all know which is the better choice.

Which approach does the fat lady dancing on the fountain commercial promote?

 

[oneforthebus]

Your two posts nearly contradict one another "I don't think the pill is the best way to lose weight" then "Why would it bother you if someone takes it?" Your first comment answers the second to some extent, but note that I am aware (not bothered, since it's not me or my family or anyone I know really) that the pill will NOT address the underlying problem. It won't. The pill unfortunately acts as an excuse for the vast majority. "I'm obese because of [something other than diet and exercise] so I'm on medication for the condition."

Unless the obese person fundamentally changes his or her life, the pill will change nothing and instead operate as a palliative that makes the person think that the problem has been addressed. "I've lost 15 pounds!" Yeah, and those are coming back unless you change your lifestyle.

The fat are fat due to diet and exercise and the obese are obese due to diet and exercise. The pill does not change diet or exercise. Yes, we all prefer the easy way but the easy way is never the better way for how we live our life. It's easier to drop out of high school, or college, or nursing school than to finish. It's easier to eat processed foods and sugary foods than make meals. It's easier to sit on the couch and watch TV than go to the gym and lift or go outside and run. It's easier to take a pill than to change your diet and exercise. And we all know which is the better choice.

Which approach does the fat lady dancing on the fountain commercial promote?

The Jardiance commercial as I recall is focused on the fact that it lowers A1C. It treats a medical condition. I’m not sure where you get all of these other meanings from it. Is it because the fat lady is happy and dancing? I guess fat people should be portrayed sitting around wallowing in misery over their horrible moral fallings.
Again, the pill is a tool. Some people struggle to lose weight for any number of reasons. A tool that helps them is a good thing imo.
It’s overly simplistic to assume that just because you could do something, anyone can. Again, there’s data to suggest that people who are obese as children have a much harder time losing weight and keeping it off. There are metabolic issues. There are medications that make people gain weight. There are physical conditions that make exercise difficult or impossible. There are socioeconomic factors that make healthy diets more difficult.
Most addicts can’t stop without help. Some of that help is in the form of medical interventions. Not sure why that would bother anyone.

 

[Steeltime]

What are you talking about? Denying obesity? I’m the one showing red states are full of obesity.

Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River, Life is old there, older than the trees…

https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/demographic-data/adult/

*sigh*

I honestly don't know why I bother but here goes ...

The "red states" you cite as having a large number of obese include numerous Southern states (Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana, Tennessee, Texas and Oklahoma).

Guess what those states have in much greater percentage than your beloved blue states (Vermont, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts? Go ahead, you can do it ... come on now, you know the answer.

Yep, POCOTW (people of color other than white). For Oklahoma and Texas, the POCOTW are in large (no pun intended) part Hispanic. So once again, bigot, you are chastising the POCOTW. Go clean your hood, bigot.

 

[Steeltime]

The Jardiance commercial as I recall is focused on the fact that it lowers A1C. It treats a medical condition. I’m not sure where you get all of these other meanings from it. Is it because the fat lady is happy and dancing? I guess fat people should be portrayed sitting around wallowing in misery over their horrible moral fallings.

Oh my God, you caught me. My one wish in life is for fat people to wallow in misery. I had hidden that successfully for decades but now it's out!

Again, the pill is a tool. Some people struggle to lose weight for any number of reasons. A tool that helps them is a good thing imo.

For the 5th time, the pill is not going to do anything to help unless the person makes fundamental changes to his or her life. The pill will instead be an excuse for a very significant percentage of the obese to keep their bad life choices in effect. "Yeah, I still love my ice cream and don't get much exercise, but I've lost 15 pounds already!"

Medications to help Type 2 diabetics are great. But the visual of a morbidly obese woman dancing because she has a pill that will delay the terrible effects of her bad lifestyle for some amount of time is one that unfortunately tends to support the bad life choices.

 

[oneforthebus]

Anyhoo I’ve got to get off the party train I’ve been on since Thanksgiving before I end up dancing in a Jardiance commercial.

 

[oneforthebus]

Oh my God, you caught me. My one wish in life is for fat people to wallow in misery. I had hidden that successfully for decades but now it's out!



For the 5th time, the pill is not going to do anything to help unless the person makes fundamental changes to his or her life. The pill will instead be an excuse for a very significant percentage of the obese to keep their bad life choices in effect. "Yeah, I still love my ice cream and don't get much exercise, but I've lost 15 pounds already!"

Medications to help Type 2 diabetics are great. But the visual of a morbidly obese woman dancing because she has a pill that will delay the terrible effects of her bad lifestyle for some amount of time is one that unfortunately tends to support the bad life choices.

Yeah I didn’t get that from that commercial at all. Maybe dancing because she is working hard getting healthier and this pill is helping her? The pill as an excuse to eat like crazy is something that’s only in your mind. It’s not being marketed that way from what I can see.
Don’t get much exercise? I mean the lady clearly is pretty darn active.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

What part of “one cause” don’t you understand?

Oh I fully understand it. Just predictable that you list "a" cause that isn't even close to the "leading" cause of obesity in America. Nefariously selective.

Read the study, Tim. It discusses the growing trend of rural areas basically being forced to rely on dollar stores as grocery stores. They don’t have a Safeway. You’re just disagreeing for disagreement sake like a toddler throwing a tantrum.

Provide me evidence, any, that plots Dollar General Stores and distance from actual super markets and grocery stores. When you can establish a dirth of true food stores and that there is mass evidence of many, many areas in the country that can "only get food from dollar stores" I'll revisit your silly position.

Read the study and tell me where they are wrong.

See above.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Can’t get to Blowing Rock, NC just taking interstates, You’re clueless in your assumption.

Oh I am?

First of all, I don't need to know what you are blowing.

Second, having grown up in part of Appalachia, I can tell you your drive from PA to NC wasn't on dirt roads. The vast majority of it was highway.

From Philly, it's 95% interstate.
From Harrisburg, it's 95% interstate.
Hell, even from Pittsburgh, it's 95% highway.



By all means, please go on with your expert anecdotal evidence of Dollar General stores at every stoplight and no groceries anywhere driving from PA to Blowing-whatever-you-do-in-your-spare-time.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

What difference does it make which part of Appalachia? Drove through all of them north of Georgia. Are you denying Appalachia is largely rural and poor?

No, we are denying your baseless, without-evidence-claim that the vast majority of these places literally get the majority of their food from dollar stores.