Covid Vaccine

[oneforthebus]

Wrong. It doesn't need to be justified. Weight loss should first and always be about controlling diet, moving, doing exercise. If the patient doesn't have a medical condition that leads to their obesity, the first thing they should do BEFORE taking a drug is the above.

We now live in a world where it's gone backwards. Instead of doing the logical and the natural - eat better, exercise, move - we spend money for the elixir.

It's the wrong way to address the problem

So if a patient has proven unable or unwilling to do those things, and as a physician you have a tool that can improve their health and possibly prevent their death, you have a DUTY to avail them of that tool.

 

[Steeltime]

Not everyone is as perfectly disciplined as you.

By choice. You and I now seem to agree that the obese are grotesquely overweight not due to genetics or big bones but instead due to overeating and lack of exercise.

And the punishment for that should be death I guess, even if there’s a pill that might help prevent it. Got it.

Two things. First, obesity causes Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, neuropathy and early death not due to anything I do or say but because it is inherently unhealthy and destructive.

Second, the pill prevents nothing - it is meant to help the body use insulin, process calories and lower a1c. The weight loss is a small side effect. The weight loss you speak of is on average about 7 or 8 pounds. Any person that continues on the unhealthy pattern of overeating and lack of exercise will gain the weight back plus.

The pill is a lie, one that has the almost undeniable effect of making the obese - those so overweight they are suffering Type 2 diabetes as a result - believe that they are avoiding the effects of their destructive habits. "Hey, I might be unable to run a quarter mile, I get winded climbing the front steps, I suffer Type 2 diabetes, but I am taking a pill that allows me to dance on a fountain and I lost 5 pounds! No need to change my lifestyle!"

If you are obese and don't change your lifestyle to its very core, you are going to suffer the consequences. The pill makes a company profit but does not address the actual underlying cause of the problem. Instead, the pill makes the obese think they can get away with it.

 

[Troglodyte]

Too bad your dad did not have access to a free condom.

Lucky for you condoms weren’t an option at the gang bang in which you were conceived.

 

[Troglodyte]

The leading cause for Covid death, obesity.

Now go on (and welcome back tard). Walk that back. You now admit we are an obese nation.

The leading cause of COVID death was obesity?

 

[Troglodyte]

View attachment 12169

She must have been reaching for the Diet Coke.

Wait. Thats the second picture of an obese white person. WHAAAAT???

 

[ZonaBurgh]

Yeah again, what is the point of this? Fat people are morally failing? Congratulations enjoy your superiority. If my grandma who I loved was obese I’d still be glad there was a pill that might help her get a littler healthier and live a little longer. You all would say “Screw her it’s all her fault how dare she take a pill that might help her, lazy pig”. Disingenuous.

Wow, that is not what I said. However, a significant portion of the population is overweight and there is no denying that, much of it because of diet, proportions we consume and lack of physical activity, kind of like me now tapping on a keyboard at the moment.

Some are genetically prone to obesity, but their numbers are only a percentage of those currently overweight. If there's a medication that will help those people they should seek it out with the help of a physician along with a nutritionist and a regular exercise program. It shouldn't be determined by a 30 second TV ad that claims "take our product and your life will absolutely improve", but only if you go and pressure your physician to prescribe it for you because the TV said so.

And I couldn't help notice that you said "if" your grandma was obese. Can I assume that she was not? But even if she was, and if a change in those things that she could control fell short of reaching a healthy weight, then by all means, a tablet or injection should be an option for her, assuming one actually exists.

One last thing, personal attacks seldom lead to an open conversation, sorry if I struck a nerve, it wasn't my intention.

 

[Troglodyte]

So my boss got fired. Yeah! I didn’t respect him at all. Why? Because several years ago, before he was my boss while he was talking with another VP I overheard him say on speaker phone that “A hard working black person” is an oxymoron.

I recently found out that he was treating my obese, black coworker like ****. (Not why he got fired) She is possibly the hardest working person I know. I routinely get emails from her late at night. I imagine working 70 hour weeks sitting at a desk limits her physical activity. She has lost weight and I don’t care how. Why do you?

 

[ZonaBurgh]

By choice. You and I now seem to agree that the obese are grotesquely overweight not due to genetics or big bones but instead due to overeating and lack of exercise.



Two things. First, obesity causes Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, neuropathy and early death not due to anything I do or say but because it is inherently unhealthy and destructive.

Second, the pill prevents nothing - it is meant to help the body use insulin, process calories and lower a1c. The weight loss is a small side effect. The weight loss you speak of is on average about 7 or 8 pounds. Any person that continues on the unhealthy pattern of overeating and lack of exercise will gain the weight back plus.

The pill is a lie, one that has the almost undeniable effect of making the obese - those so overweight they are suffering Type 2 diabetes as a result - believe that they are avoiding the effects of their destructive habits. "Hey, I might be unable to run a quarter mile, I get winded climbing the front steps, I suffer Type 2 diabetes, but I am taking a pill that allows me to dance on a fountain and I lost 5 pounds! No need to change my lifestyle!"

If you are obese and don't change your lifestyle to its very core, you are going to suffer the consequences. The pill makes a company profit but does not address the actual underlying cause of the problem. Instead, the pill makes the obese think they can get away with it.

Jimmy, you are wrong, wrong, wrong!


No one has rolled a "pill" in well over a century! Being a fake lawyer, I would have assumed that you would know that.

 

[Troglodyte]

View attachment 12169

She must have been reaching for the Diet Coke.

So would you help that person, or would you mock her on the internet? Yes, that’s rhetorical.

 

[Stewey]

So would you help that person, or would you mock her on the internet? Yes, that’s rhetorical.

Mock her on the internet.

But then again, I'd probably do both. I wouldn't have needed a crane. I lift weights at the gym.

 

[oneforthebus]

Wow, that is not what I said. However, a significant portion of the population is overweight and there is no denying that, much of it because of diet, proportions we consume and lack of physical activity, kind of like me now tapping on a keyboard at the moment.

Some are genetically prone to obesity, but their numbers are only a percentage of those currently overweight. If there's a medication that will help those people they should seek it out with the help of a physician along with a nutritionist and a regular exercise program. It shouldn't be determined by a 30 second TV ad that claims "take our product and your life will absolutely improve", but only if you go and pressure your physician to prescribe it for you because the TV said so.

And I couldn't help notice that you said "if" your grandma was obese. Can I assume that she was not? But even if she was, and if a change in those things that she could control fell short of reaching a healthy weight, then by all means, a tablet or injection should be an option for her, assuming one actually exists.

One last thing, personal attacks seldom lead to an open conversation, sorry if I struck a nerve, it wasn't my intention.

Sorry I believe I responded to the wrong post on this one

 

[Stewey]

Wait. Thats the second picture of an obese white person. WHAAAAT???

Waaaaa...and here's a third. You're the one crying. I'm enjoying this.
What a coincidence. It's Stewie making fun of a fatso.

I suspect you're fat.
Maybe you have a glandular problem too.

 

[oneforthebus]

By choice. You and I now seem to agree that the obese are grotesquely overweight not due to genetics or big bones but instead due to overeating and lack of exercise.



Two things. First, obesity causes Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, neuropathy and early death not due to anything I do or say but because it is inherently unhealthy and destructive.

Second, the pill prevents nothing - it is meant to help the body use insulin, process calories and lower a1c. The weight loss is a small side effect. The weight loss you speak of is on average about 7 or 8 pounds. Any person that continues on the unhealthy pattern of overeating and lack of exercise will gain the weight back plus.

The pill is a lie, one that has the almost undeniable effect of making the obese - those so overweight they are suffering Type 2 diabetes as a result - believe that they are avoiding the effects of their destructive habits. "Hey, I might be unable to run a quarter mile, I get winded climbing the front steps, I suffer Type 2 diabetes, but I am taking a pill that allows me to dance on a fountain and I lost 5 pounds! No need to change my lifestyle!"

If you are obese and don't change your lifestyle to its very core, you are going to suffer the consequences. The pill makes a company profit but does not address the actual underlying cause of the problem. Instead, the pill makes the obese think they can get away with it.

I’ve never disagreed that overeating and lack of exercise causes most obesity. I’ve only said there are factors that make it more difficult for some.
I don’t think anyone is being told the pill is the best or only way to lose weight. It’s a tool, and again, I’ve never heard a doctor say “Don’t worry about diet and exercise, this pill will fix everything!” That’s a figment of some of your imaginations.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

By choice. You and I now seem to agree that the obese are grotesquely overweight not due to genetics or big bones but instead due to overeating and lack of exercise.



Two things. First, obesity causes Type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, heart disease, neuropathy and early death not due to anything I do or say but because it is inherently unhealthy and destructive.

Second, the pill prevents nothing - it is meant to help the body use insulin, process calories and lower a1c. The weight loss is a small side effect. The weight loss you speak of is on average about 7 or 8 pounds. Any person that continues on the unhealthy pattern of overeating and lack of exercise will gain the weight back plus.

The pill is a lie, one that has the almost undeniable effect of making the obese - those so overweight they are suffering Type 2 diabetes as a result - believe that they are avoiding the effects of their destructive habits. "Hey, I might be unable to run a quarter mile, I get winded climbing the front steps, I suffer Type 2 diabetes, but I am taking a pill that allows me to dance on a fountain and I lost 5 pounds! No need to change my lifestyle!"

If you are obese and don't change your lifestyle to its very core, you are going to suffer the consequences. The pill makes a company profit but does not address the actual underlying cause of the problem. Instead, the pill makes the obese think they can get away with it.

Not all Type 2 Diabetics can control their numbers simply by losing weight. I dropped from a high of 280 down to 210 when diagnosed I am 6'2". Even with diet and exercise my numbers remained high. I am not a type 1, we confirmed that with tests, yet I have had to take a cocktail of meds to maintain my numbers. Jardiance being one of them. My Stepfather who is a disabled vet and also a type 2 can't exercise the way he should due to a back issue from a mortar shell knocking him off the wing of a plane during Vietnam. Both of us are now on Ozempic. It has us both in normal range blood sugar numbers for the first time in decades and has gotten me off the little insulin I was on at night. and he is off everything except Ozempic for diabetes. He has lost 100lbs and was able to get around some for the first time in years just to fall and break vertebrae in his back again. Without diabetes meds he would likely be dead already. Exercise to the extent needed is not an option for him. For myself while exercise absolutely helps it didn't bring my numbers under control the way Ozempic has.

 

[Troglodyte]

Mock her on the internet.

But then again, I'd probably do both. I wouldn't have needed a crane. I lift weights at the gym.

And you’re all of 165 lbs. like wee Steeltime, right Napoleon?

 

[Troglodyte]

Waaaaa...and here's a third. You're the one crying. I'm enjoying this.
What a coincidence. It's Stewie making fun of a fatso.

I suspect you're fat.
Maybe you have a glandular problem too.

No, I’m 6’1 and currently 230lbs. I was down to 215 a little over a year ago. Hope to get back or under that but I’ve been too busy and less physically active.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So if a patient has proven unable or unwilling to do those things, and as a physician you have a tool that can improve their health and possibly prevent their death, you have a DUTY to avail them of that tool.

No disagreement. You're denying the reality of what is happening. It's being OVER prescribed out of convenience.

You're assuming doctors, after the 14th visit, after pleading with patients to lose weight, FINALLy give in and prescribe them Ozempic. LOL. Nope. It's being over-prescribed as a weight-loss drug (putting true diabetics in danger btw).

Again, it's predicted that 1/3 of Americans will be on it (or a similar drug) by 2025.

1/3 of Americans don't have a true medical condition requiring Ozempic as an example, and a vast majority of those could/should improve their diet/exercise. Today most docs don't even bother trying to get people to exercise, they just write the script.

My one friend, she and her daughter are on it. Mom called the doc that prescribed it to her, the family doc. Said "Tina" has put on over 50lbs since college began, can she go on Ozempic to lose weight? "Tina" is 4 states away. Doc phoned in the script after a single phone call without seeing Tina. True story.

This is happening more frequently and too often.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

The leading cause of COVID death was obesity?

One too many IPAs. "The leading contributing factor" to Covid deaths was what I meant to say.

Now back to you finally acknowledging obesity in the USA after denying it for years.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

She has lost weight and I don’t care how. Why do you?

You clearly, once again, for the millionth time, miss the point of this discussion.

We care about the obvious and abusive over-prescription of non-necessary drugs when healthier alternatives exist.

We care about the potential long-term side effects of said drugs, many of which are not known today (see the $10s-$100s of billions in pharma fines, the victims of which are humans).

We are happy for all humans who improve their health.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

No, I’m 6’1 and currently 230lbs. I was down to 215 a little over a year ago. Hope to get back or under that but I’ve been too busy and less physically active.

Call your doctor and ask for Ozempic. It'll be waiting at CVS for you on the way home from work.

 

[Troglodyte]

One too many IPAs. "The leading contributing factor" to Covid deaths was what I meant to say.

Now back to you finally acknowledging obesity in the USA after denying it for years.

What are you talking about? Denying obesity? I’m the one showing red states are full of obesity.

Blue Ridge Mountains, Shenandoah River, Life is old there, older than the trees…

https://stateofchildhoodobesity.org/demographic-data/adult/

 

[Troglodyte]

You clearly, once again, for the millionth time, miss the point of this discussion.

We care about the obvious and abusive over-prescription of non-necessary drugs when healthier alternatives exist.

We care about the potential long-term side effects of said drugs, many of which are not known today (see the $10s-$100s of billions in pharma fines, the victims of which are humans).

We are happy for all humans who improve their health.

So you suspect that consuming Ozembic is worse than consuming a double cheeseburger, large fries and a 32 oz soda?

Possibly, I highly doubt it though.

 

[oneforthebus]

No disagreement. You're denying the reality of what is happening. It's being OVER prescribed out of convenience.

You're assuming doctors, after the 14th visit, after pleading with patients to lose weight, FINALLy give in and prescribe them Ozempic. LOL. Nope. It's being over-prescribed as a weight-loss drug (putting true diabetics in danger btw).

Again, it's predicted that 1/3 of Americans will be on it (or a similar drug) by 2025.

1/3 of Americans don't have a true medical condition requiring Ozempic as an example, and a vast majority of those could/should improve their diet/exercise. Today most docs don't even bother trying to get people to exercise, they just write the script.

My one friend, she and her daughter are on it. Mom called the doc that prescribed it to her, the family doc. Said "Tina" has put on over 50lbs since college began, can she go on Ozempic to lose weight? "Tina" is 4 states away. Doc phoned in the script after a single phone call without seeing the girl. True story.

This is what's happening in the majority of prescriptions.

Obesity as some of you have mentioned causes all kinds of health issues. If there’s a pill that can get people’s weight down a bit and help reduce some of these issues why would it bother you if someone takes it? Because you attribute their failure to lose weight as some kind of moral failing? And therefore they must prove that they tried and failed 14 times before being allowed to try an effective treatment? While their obesity negatively affects many aspects of their health? Are you also mad if doctors put people on blood pressure medicine quickly even though they could in months or years reduce their blood pressure through diet and exercise, but in the meantime they might have a stroke or heart attack?

Some people for whatever reason need help losing weight. Why do you care if they get it?

 

[Confluence]

Not all Type 2 Diabetics can control their numbers simply by losing weight. I dropped from a high of 280 down to 210 when diagnosed I am 6'2". Even with diet and exercise my numbers remained high. I am not a type 1, we confirmed that with tests, yet I have had to take a cocktail of meds to maintain my numbers. Jardiance being one of them. My Stepfather who is a disabled vet and also a type 2 can't exercise the way he should due to a back issue from a mortar shell knocking him off the wing of a plane during Vietnam. Both of us are now on Ozempic. It has us both in normal range blood sugar numbers for the first time in decades and has gotten me off the little insulin I was on at night. and he is off everything except Ozempic for diabetes. He has lost 100lbs and was able to get around some for the first time in years just to fall and break vertebrae in his back again. Without diabetes meds he would likely be dead already. Exercise to the extent needed is not an option for him. For myself while exercise absolutely helps it didn't bring my numbers under control the way Ozempic has.

Glad you are both healthier! Thus is the laudable goal of modern pharmacology.

Your use of Ozempic is actually what it is labelled for. FDA approves any drug for certain uses because that is how the safety and efficacy parameters, and then dosing (phases 1,2 and 3) is established. Like Ozempic in this use case.

Medical doctors, with the full blessing of their superiors, of the pharma companies and insurance companies, then sometimes/often prescribe drugs like Ozempic for off-label uses like weight loss. And those drugs can have utility in those use cases. However, those use cases lack the stringent testing FDA requires for the actual aporoved labelling, making this a grey area at best.

Sometimes this grey area provides access to things like orphan drugs that have great utility for non-label diseases. Sometimes they cause problems as Ozempic seems to be thru some non-label use by doctors. Sildenafil is an example of a drug that was developed for one thing, then re-packaged (and FDA approved) for another as its side-effect had greater utiliity than its original use.

As far as I can tell, only one drug in recent times was ever publicly disclaimed for its unlabeled usage, even though it proved safe and efficacious in many jurisdictions.

The jury is still out on un-labelled use of Ozempic and many other drugs, but many people feel great comfort for an FDA approval, even if for other use-case.

 

[Confluence]

Obesity as some of you have mentioned causes all kinds of health issues. If there’s a pill that can get people’s weight down a bit and help reduce some of these issues why would it bother you if someone takes it? Because you attribute their failure to lose weight as some kind of moral failing? And therefore they must prove that they tried and failed 14 times before being allowed to try an effective treatment? While their obesity negatively affects many aspects of their health? Are you also mad if doctors put people on blood pressure medicine quickly even though they could in months or years reduce their blood pressure through diet and exercise, but in the meantime they might have a stroke or heart attack?

Some people for whatever reason need help losing weight. Why do you care if they get it?

Most people that smoke are skinnier than those that do not.