Does Mason Rudolph Deserve a 17-Game Opportunity?

[fedderone]

Every NFL player has athleticism, has a gift, is special, etc.
What factors into continued growth and then said player separating himself from his peers and becoming elite within the NFL is :
1) Development by team/coaches/trainers
2) Player willing to put in work and continue to open mind to learning
Some players are more naturally gifted.
Some are smarter players that study film and use their limited ( compared to others’ ) athleticism exploiting weaknesses and knowing tendencies.
The TRULY elite are/do both and are relentless in their quest to be the best, we typically say they have that “IT” factor.
I’m willing to see what Mason can do/be as “the man” going full time with the 1s and getting all the benefits/reps as starter.
I’m just not hopeful of him producing to the point where he wins the coaches/fans over and becomes a viable option, based on him limited action. I’ve never seen a glimpse.
When Burrow started his rookie year, behind a garbage line, and eventually got injured, he showed glimpses where you said, “He’s special. He’ll be starting in the league for 15 seasons.”
Rudolph will NEVER be that. He could be a serviceable starter/game manager if we build up a stud O-Line that gives him time. Other than that, he’s NOT a franchise QB.
But I don’t think there’s franchise QB in this year’s draft class, so roll with Rudolph or Trubisky or a stop gap until you can get one. Don’t trade draft capital or spend foolishly without fixing the O and D lines.

 

[Troglodyte]

Rudolph deserves an opportunity, but not 17 games. He wasn’t given a 15 game opportunity in 2019, why should he get 17 games in 2022?

 

[Stewey]

Dismal? We did better than many on here predicted. Sure it ended badly but I wouldn't call it dismal.

I don't know what you were watching, but a dismal season or not wasn't the point. ( in case you missed it.)

Maybe record-wise we did better than our pre-season predictions, ... but it's a glaring fact that we played worse than we all predicted we would.

I don't know where you were but the consensus around here was that this 9-7 team was the worst ever witnessed by us in our lifetimes. What we all have come to be known as "Steeler football" was instead unrecognizable.

The 9-7 record was the result of us either eking out wins, getting lucky, or getting blown out. It was dismal to me.

 

[slashsteel]

I don't know what you were watching, but a dismal season or not wasn't the point. ( in case you missed it.)

Maybe record-wise we did better than our pre-season predictions, ... but it's a glaring fact that we played worse than we all predicted we would.

I don't know where you were but the consensus around here was that this 9-7 team was the worst ever witnessed by us in our lifetimes. What we all have come to be known as "Steeler football" was instead unrecognizable.

The 9-7 record was the result of us either eking out wins, getting lucky, or getting blown out. It was dismal to me.

When you get blown out of games that matter that is not good enough. By far. So dismal fits, ****** season fits, suck *** season fits, not a good watch definitely fits. I am sure there is plenty more descriptions that would fit.

I think some fans are ok with it as long as we aren't a basement team.

But with this fan nothing short of being competitive is good enough.

You already have your mediocre result HC I have no desire to follow up with a mediocre result QB.

**** that.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

maybe rudolph is off working out in the ukrain,,,, errr lithuania back woods chopping woods,, benching loads of firewood and running up hill in the snow to get his eye of the tiger and he comes in and everyone ***** bricks,, because he's killing it due to "Offseason work" ,,, its a new term in the qb room.. Who knows...

 

[slashsteel]

maybe rudolph is off working out in the ukrain,,,, errr lithuania back woods chopping woods,, benching loads of firewood and running up hill in the snow to get his eye of the tiger and he comes in and everyone ***** bricks,, because he's killing it due to "Offseason work" ,,, its a new term in the qb room.. Who knows...

So what you are saying is he is rising up to the challenge of his ri i I val.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

I don't know what you were watching, but a dismal season or not wasn't the point. ( in case you missed it.)

Maybe record-wise we did better than our pre-season predictions, ... but it's a glaring fact that we played worse than we all predicted we would.

I don't know where you were but the consensus around here was that this 9-7 team was the worst ever witnessed by us in our lifetimes. What we all have come to be known as "Steeler football" was instead unrecognizable.

The 9-7 record was the result of us either eking out wins, getting lucky, or getting blown out. It was dismal to me.

No not the worst by a long stretch in my lifetime. Maybe the worst offensive play calling but the 80's were far worse.

 

[topseed]

And Duck failed to win the game in OT vs the Ravens, that Rudolph would have won in regulation before being brained. What's your point?

Rudolph "would have won in regulation"? Really?

Umm, he was losing that game by 4 points when Duck came in during the middle of the third quarter, and the Steelers lost by 3 in overtime. What's your point? That a journeyman future CFL backup couldn't overcome Rudolph's deficit and hand your hero yet another win he didn't deserve?

LOL.

 

[topseed]

What is the average QB rating league wide for QBs in their first 10 starts? Based on what I can find it is worse than that. I bet we will blaming Canada regardless of who is at QB and no Mason doesn't suck. When a rookie comes in and performs like **** for the first year will you want them cut and say they suck? Real world numbers for QBs in their first 16 starts says you are flat out wrong in saying he sucks. We can't say he is great either we really just don't know. i have seen things from him that make think he has some upside, maybe he doesn't. Statistically I just don't get the hate for him. Particularly considering those stats include games he should have been still sitting on the bench.

Now I am still not saying to hand him anything other than being the number one going into camp. I think he has earned the shot and nothing more.

Kind of hard to produce those stats, but I'd love to see what you've found in that regard...please feel free to post those "real world numbers." Of course, they are probably skewed lower, because the rookie quarterbacks who do start are typically on bad teams. Rudolph, however, is neither a rookie nor has he been on a very bad team, and he's entering his fifth season.

What we do know, in fact, is that he has done an adequate job as a backup NFL quarterback, compiling a pedestrian .500 record while his team averages about 3 touchdowns for every 2 games when he leads the offense. So yeah, I sure can say that's not great, and yes, statistically, an 80.9 rating in this day and age does suck, no matter what the stage of career happens to be. I do know that Daniel Jones had a rating of 84.8 last season, and I know that he sucks too.

 

[topseed]

But somehow it's vogue or enlightened to hate on his skills.

Never have I said he is Montana. I am too honest to say he is Ryan Leaf. Let him show us what he is, and the numbers he has put up say he is good to pretty good.

It's not "vogue" to provide facts, my friend. They are what they are, and the numbers most certainly do NOT say that Mason Rudolph is any good. Period. You and SiL and Cope can hope and wish and pray and make excuses all day long, but they're not going to change.

 

[topseed]

I'd bet the farm that if we had completed this dismal season with Rudolph at the helm, most of the blame would be put on Rudolph. It would have been the proof yinz needed to confirm that he's not the guy. (and me too)

But since it was Ben, the blame was spread around with Ben receiving the least of it....Tomlin, O Line, Canada, Steely McBeam, you name it.

Although I'm defending Rudolph, I lean slightly toward him NOT being the guy. I'm just not fully convinced that he isn't.

Not me. I deal in reality. Ben wasn't very good this past year. As evidenced by his 86.8 QB rating, which was 24th in the league, right behind Lamar Jackson and just ahead of one Taylor Heinicke. But still almost 6 points higher than Rudolph's career mark.

 

[rpollock]

YES! We need a high draft pick next year. Fix the line this year get your QB next year. Hopefully picking in the top 10 next year.

 

[slashsteel]

YES! We need a high draft pick next year. Fix the line this year get your QB next year. Hopefully picking in the top 10 next year.

Regardless of what they do they need to fix the Oline. You go a high profile QB or a mid tier roster upgrade. Either or you get a C and a RT. Upgrade those two positions then draft a LG. I think this is minimal I probably try to upgrade that LG too in free agency.

 

[Stryker]

But somehow it's vogue or enlightened to hate on his skills.

Never have I said he is Montana. I am too honest to say he is Ryan Leaf. Let him show us what he is, and the numbers he has put up say he is good to pretty good.

Mason is going on being in the league 2 years longer than Ryan Leaf...

 

[Stryker]

Rudolph "would have won in regulation"? Really?

Umm, he was losing that game by 4 points when Duck came in during the middle of the third quarter, and the Steelers lost by 3 in overtime. What's your point? That a journeyman future CFL backup couldn't overcome Rudolph's deficit and hand your hero yet another win he didn't deserve?

LOL.

If you're saying Duck is better than Reindeer, I'll show you 2 leagues that agree with me.

 

[Stryker]

I also am not sold that Rudolph will be our starter next year. Haskins has more tools and an excellent shot of beating him out.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Not me. I deal in reality. Ben wasn't very good this past year. As evidenced by his 86.8 QB rating, which was 24th in the league, right behind Lamar Jackson and just ahead of one Taylor Heinicke. But still almost 6 points higher than Rudolph's career mark.

I found this the average rating for a QB in their in first 18 since 2002 is 82.6 Mason is at 80.8 and he played some games he shouldn't have.
The average TD's in 18 games was 23 he has 16 in 10.

So far he is on track to at the very minimum be average. He doesn't suck like some vehemently claim. I will link the article it should make for some interesting discussions.
The article is about Drew Lock so it relatively current.

How Drew Lock's First 18 Starts Compare to 70 Other Quarterbacks

We now have 18 games worth of evidence on Drew Lock, NFL quarterback, so I thought it would be a worthwhile exercise to look at the first 18 games of every NFL QB since 2002. That's 70 quarterbacks with at least 18 NFL starts.

www.milehighreport.com

 

[FSF]

I wonder what it was that Matt Hasselback , Mark Brunell, Brad Johnson, and Chris Chandler did to demonstrate that they were legit starters.

You said these guys "surprised" and developed into starters. How do we know Rudolph won't?

MH was nothing to write home about in his young career. I assume the others were similar.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HassMa00.htm

So now that I have successfully given you a reasonable position to debate from:

You might note that they weren’t drafted by the team that they had not developed successfully with. In fact, the Packers had both Brunell and Hasselbeck were on Packers bench behind Favre — rather amazing considering Kurt Warner was originally a Packer too. Rather an impressive 4 QBs in one decade from one team, though 3 had zero chance of displacing Favre. And all 3 combined for a total of 2 seasons on the active roster. Point being—Brunell & Hasselbeck were traded for after rookie year exactly for chance to compete. Warner was a once in a lifetime story.

The Vikings drafted Rich Gannon & Brad Johnson and it took better part of decade to become even a good starter. And again in happened with other teams that ended up moving on from them.

There’s not much of a market for Mason right now and if there was, we’d be pretty good about him going in as the starter. There’s enough tape on him out there that people who know much more than we do aren’t exactly feeling confident about naming him the starter right now.

He doesn’t deserve to start, but earned the right to compete for the job — and they need to bring in at least a 3rd candidate for him to compete with.

BTW—it’s pretty lazy to assume and leave a link to pfr to make your argument. “Google it” is a weak response to a debate

 

[livingthrudying]

SO sick of hearing people say he couldn't hold off Duck. He was still hurting from being knocked cold. He shouldn't have been on the field yet. He was far better than Duck. Duck had the story and swagger but what he didn't have was an arm. Mason, as I have said repeatedly played pretty well before the KO and then when he was actually recovered against the Jets he looked pretty damn good before the line let him get his shoulder torn off. The biggest issue he faced was the same Ben faced bad play calling and bad line play. He deserves a chance to start training camp as the one and then he has to earn it from there. No one should be given anything regardless of who they are.

That was only true for one of the times duck went in. Duck replaced him twice. And again name me any franchise QB that gets cleared to play and gets yanked for a undrafted no longer in the league QB?

You may be sick of people talking about him not being able to hold off Duck, but i'm sick of people using the black and yellow colored glasses to ignore what they have seen from this guy. Go back and watch his last games he played in (when he wasn't hurt coming back too soon or too late or too anything). His decision making was incredibly slow. Watch him as he goes through his reads. Its painfully obvious he is no where close to NFL level speed of the game. And if thats not bad enough then watch his throws and how off time they are how they are slow and not enough zip on them.

I get it we are stuck in a QB purgatory right now and being optimistic is a good thing, but not at the point of delusions of grandeur. We have seen Mason play more than probably any back up QB playing behind a Franchise QB. He is not starter material. He is a slightly and i mean slightly better than average #2 at best. I get it he's the best option on the roster currently, but that is no reason to continue on with insisting this guy is better than his tape.

 

[livingthrudying]

when did he beat out Mason?

Week 12, 2019 season Mason was benched and Duck went in.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

That was only true for one of the times duck went in. Duck replaced him twice. And again name me any franchise QB that gets cleared to play and gets yanked for a undrafted no longer in the league QB?

You may be sick of people talking about him not being able to hold off Duck, but i'm sick of people using the black and yellow colored glasses to ignore what they have seen from this guy. Go back and watch his last games he played in (when he wasn't hurt coming back too soon or too late or too anything). His decision making was incredibly slow. Watch him as he goes through his reads. Its painfully obvious he is no where close to NFL level speed of the game. And if thats not bad enough then watch his throws and how off time they are how they are slow and not enough zip on them.

I get it we are stuck in a QB purgatory right now and being optimistic is a good thing, but not at the point of delusions of grandeur. We have seen Mason play more than probably any back up QB playing behind a Franchise QB. He is not starter material. He is a slightly and i mean slightly better than average #2 at best. I get it he's the best option on the roster currently, but that is no reason to continue on with insisting this guy is better than his tape.

Really I don't see any of that from him in the games he has played and been prepared for. The only real bad games he has had were post concussion and that is when he was benched for Duck. He has plenty of arm and makes very nice deep throws. Most young guys in there first 16 starts have bad or slow decision making. He has gotten much better aside from ner the goalline. I also NEVER said he was franchise QB. YOu do realize most teams don't have franchise QB's. They are rare in the extreme. You are trying to hold him to a standard that is totally unfair. We have to realize replacing Ben won't be plug and play with another legend and you have to temper your expectations accordingly. We can win without a franchise QB if we build accordingly.

 

[slashsteel]

Week 12, 2019 season Mason was benched and Duck went in.

Well to be fair that is just a benching. His play caused that nothing that Duck did or didn't do at that point.

As a coach you are looking for a spark.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Week 12, 2019 season Mason was benched and Duck went in.

Mason even though he won 4 of 5 should have not been playing as he was not the same after the Ravens game when he got knocked cold on his feet. He should have been given a much longer recovery time. When he came back in against the Jets he looked far better than he had all year, the same against the Browns the next year after he knocked the rust off. He is way better than Duck and has way more arm.

 

[madinsomniac]

SO sick of hearing people say he couldn't hold off Duck. He was still hurting from being knocked cold. He shouldn't have been on the field yet. He was far better than Duck. Duck had the story and swagger but what he didn't have was an arm. Mason, as I have said repeatedly played pretty well before the KO and then when he was actually recovered against the Jets he looked pretty damn good before the line let him get his shoulder torn off. The biggest issue he faced was the same Ben faced bad play calling and bad line play. He deserves a chance to start training camp as the one and then he has to earn it from there. No one should be given anything regardless of who they are.

People are utter idiots when it comes to QB play… his first four games were extremely good for a first time starter. People should go rewatch drew bees first season… he came out of college with the same type of arm that Rudolph did…it took him years to develop it into the monster arm it became…. his first few starts were less impressive than Rudolph’s. Rudolph had a bunch of good indicator metrics, but people just didn’t care…

People hated the Rudolph pick because we had ben… in hindsight it was the perfect time to draft a qb to develop… people bought into the media narrative about Rudolph and the short passes that we now know was just the Fitchner offense…. They also were enamored by tge nickname “Duck” and his real popgun arm and gunslinger attitude…

I don’t think mason is a star franchise talent, but he probably is going to be at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while if he looks ok this year…probably not for us, but he is a lot better than some of the trash out there…

Personally I hope he tears it up and makes everyone look like fools…

 

[slashsteel]

People are utter idiots when it comes to QB play… his first four games were extremely good for a first time starter. People should go rewatch drew bees first season… he came out of college with the same type of arm that Rudolph did…it took him years to develop it into the monster arm it became…. his first few starts were less impressive than Rudolph’s. Rudolph had a bunch of good indicator metrics, but people just didn’t care…

People hated the Rudolph pick because we had ben… in hindsight it was the perfect time to draft a qb to develop… people bought into the media narrative about Rudolph and the short passes that we now know was just the Fitchner offense…. They also were enamored by tge nickname “Duck” and his real popgun arm and gunslinger attitude…

I don’t think mason is a star franchise talent, but he probably is going to be at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while if he looks ok this year…probably not for us, but he is a lot better than some of the trash out there…

Personally I hope he tears it up and makes everyone look like fools…

I can't speak for others but I liked the pick, looked like a good value pick and being a third rounder not as big of a deal if it doesn't pan out.

I would love it if I was wrong that would mean we are set at QB.

You look at his preseason play. Pretty good. Then the light comes on and pressure situations he can't thread those needles. If he could reverse that trend great, celebrate.

Nothing he has done up to his last start suggestions that will change. His year to year progress or lack there of doesn't suggest a change.

He will get another chance in training camp. To beat out his competition. But make no mistake about it he should have competition and not some scrub. He will have the benefit of being in the Steelers system. The excuses will be over. Put up or shut up time for him.