Does Mason Rudolph Deserve a 17-Game Opportunity?

[livingthrudying]

People are utter idiots when it comes to QB play… his first four games were extremely good for a first time starter. People should go rewatch drew bees first season… he came out of college with the same type of arm that Rudolph did…it took him years to develop it into the monster arm it became…. his first few starts were less impressive than Rudolph’s. Rudolph had a bunch of good indicator metrics, but people just didn’t care…

People hated the Rudolph pick because we had ben… in hindsight it was the perfect time to draft a qb to develop… people bought into the media narrative about Rudolph and the short passes that we now know was just the Fitchner offense…. They also were enamored by tge nickname “Duck” and his real popgun arm and gunslinger attitude…

I don’t think mason is a star franchise talent, but he probably is going to be at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while if he looks ok this year…probably not for us, but he is a lot better than some of the trash out there…

Personally I hope he tears it up and makes everyone look like fools…

I did not hate the pick. He was a 3rd rounder right? not a bad pick and a chance for someone who may be a franchise player and at worst could be a bust. In Rudolph i think we found a solid back up. And yes Drew brees turned out to be better and didn't start off so good. RG3 started off as a monster and is not in the league any more. Any other hypotheticals we want to discuss?

There's been a absolute ton of QB's who come in and play well their first few games cause nobody has tape on them to prepare for them. Play a few games and give the NFL some tape and then we see who is who. Mason had 4 good games as you state. He had more than 4 after that in multiple years that have not been good. The last time the guy was on the field he did not inspire and hope or confidence in me. He looked like someone that the game was way to fast for and he looked very very scared and hesitant.

I am not a Steelers coach so i cant say what they think. I can read between the lines though which is very telling. They are scouting 1st round QB's they are looking at free agent QB's. This is not something a team does is they believe in the the guy they have waiting in the wings. In fact everything they have done and said points to them not having the confidence in Mason. The only people who have any confidence in Mason is fans who dont want to be in QB hell and hoping this guy saves us. I get that nobody wants to see their team suck or not be good. I also get that there is a small chance that Mason could end up being the best ever or anywhere in between. However just about everything says Mason is not the guy.

 

[madinsomniac]

meh i say don’t spend premium assets on a qb this year… bring in a middle value qb and let Mason haskins and the vet duel it out… let the vet know that if he doesn’t win the job he can whine his way off the roster before the deadline

 

[topseed]

If you're saying Duck is better than Reindeer, I'll show you 2 leagues that agree with me.

No, I'm not saying that Duck is better than Rudolph.

What I said was that one of the wins credited to Rudolph, as the starter, was actually won by Duck. The offense put up 3 points in 2+ quarters with Mason (he was also trailing in this game before he exited), and 13 points in 1+ quarters with Hodges. Thus, when you dig a little bit deeper, that wonderful 5-4-1 winning record some guys love to point to is, in actuality, even less impressive.

 

[topseed]

I found this the average rating for a QB in their in first 18 since 2002 is 82.6 Mason is at 80.8 and he played some games he shouldn't have.
The average TD's in 18 games was 23 he has 16 in 10.

So far he is on track to at the very minimum be average. He doesn't suck like some vehemently claim. I will link the article it should make for some interesting discussions.
The article is about Drew Lock so it relatively current.

How Drew Lock's First 18 Starts Compare to 70 Other Quarterbacks

We now have 18 games worth of evidence on Drew Lock, NFL quarterback, so I thought it would be a worthwhile exercise to look at the first 18 games of every NFL QB since 2002. That's 70 quarterbacks with at least 18 NFL starts.

www.milehighreport.com

That's an informative article, appreciate you posting it.

However, guys who started 20 years ago are not "relatively current." In fact, from 2002-11, the first ten years of the basis of the article, the average yearly passer rating in the NFL was never higher than 84.3. It took another 4 years after that (2015) for the league average to even break 90. Again, the mean in the last 4 years (while Mason's been around) is 91.9.

So while Rudolph at 80.8 is still well below that 20-year average of 82.6, it's even worse than it looks. Just like his won/loss record.

 

[topseed]

People are utter idiots when it comes to QB play...

I don’t think mason is a star franchise talent, but he probably is going to be at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while if he looks ok this year…probably not for us, but he is a lot better than some of the trash out there…

Personally, I think you'd have to be an utter idiot to want to hand the Steelers starting quarterback position to a guy whose ceiling, according to you, is "probably at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while."

No thanks, chief.

 

[madinsomniac]

Personally, I think you'd have to be an utter idiot to want to hand the Steelers starting quarterback position to a guy whose ceiling, according to you, is "probably at least a journeyman starter in the league for a while."

No thanks, chief.

Thats better than wasting a draft pick on a qb that probably has the same overall chance of success as Rudolph or trading a bunch of picks for one year of Rodgers or an oft injured Garrapalo…

 

[Steelworth]

I don't know if you give Rudolph 17 games, but give him a fighting chance. Like Mad said, bring in a journeyman vet low cost and let them battle it out. Way too many holes in the offense and the OC's scheme and play-calling to waste money on a high-priced QB right now. I see this is at 4 pages so apologies if this has already been mentioned ad nauseam.

 

[topseed]

Thats better than wasting a draft pick on a qb that probably has the same overall chance of success as Rudolph or trading a bunch of picks for one year of Rodgers or an oft injured Garrapalo…

Rodgers is not realistic, and Garoppolo would indeed be a nightmare. I'd bring in Trubisky or Winston, myself. Or take a guy like Ridder outside of the first round; at least he has a chance to develop. Rudolph's developing days are over. He's a journeyman at best...just like you said.

 

[SteelerInLebanon]

Rodgers is not realistic, and Garoppolo would indeed be a nightmare. I'd bring in Trubisky or Winston, myself. Or take a guy like Ridder outside of the first round; at least he has a chance to develop. Rudolph's developing days are over. He's a journeyman at best...just like you said.

Unfortunately I think Ridder may go in the first.

 

[topseed]

Unfortunately I think Ridder may go in the first.

You may be right, but not to the Steelers. It's going to be interesting. I think Ridder has more potential than Rudolph ever thought about having.

I know I've been hard on the guy, but I just never saw anything in Mason. Was puzzled from the moment he was drafted. Maybe he'll somehow end up proving me wrong, but I doubt it. We'll see. Thanks for a civil debate.

 

[madinsomniac]

Rodgers is not realistic, and Garoppolo would indeed be a nightmare. I'd bring in Trubisky or Winston, myself. Or take a guy like Ridder outside of the first round; at least he has a chance to develop. Rudolph's developing days are over. He's a journeyman at best...just like you said.

I mean i think rudolph has a chance to become a Garrapalo type qb… guys develop in different phases but i don’t think he will suddenly turn into drew brees or anything…

I just also think that the high costs of qbs combined with what we need on the team right now doesn’t make sense to commit all that for a premium old qb

Finally while i think a couple of the draftees this year could turn out to be something, lets be honest, if any of them came out the past couple years they would be a second or third round pick. Im not certain thats the best option to commit a first rounder just yet


Yes we have Rudolph and haskins on the roster… bring in a guy good enough to start but not locked into the starting job… let Rudy and Hask outplay them for the role if they can

Build the team around the position and then if this year is a bust, spend the assets next year with a more developed team around it

 

[SteveA]

I'll answer your question with a question?

If the Steelers traded Mason Rudolph today what round pick do you think they would get in return?

 

[BamaSteeler52]

Outside of a group of bad free agents and no real true 1st round QB why not give him a chance... I would rather the team do that and spend money and draft picks at other positions.

 

[oicu8ad]

We are gonna suck this year. Period. Time to embrace the suck.

We need to invest heavily in the trenches (OL and DL), get a good ILB (or two), a CB, and get a QB in the 2023 draft when we have a better draft pick.

 

[livingthrudying]

I also am not sold that Rudolph will be our starter next year. Haskins has more tools and an excellent shot of beating him out.

ABout as good as i have at becoming the universe's first transgender outer space alien hippie christian baseball playing human sacrificing dictator of the multiverse. Haskins lacks a brain and work ethic to be anything more than a charity case for the steelers. He did not get it in washington and the light bulb still hasn't gone off yet for him according to what we have seen written about him so far. Haskins is a Bust!

 

[SteelBuckeye]

ABout as good as i have at becoming the universe's first transgender outer space alien hippie christian baseball playing human sacrificing dictator of the multiverse. Haskins lacks a brain and work ethic to be anything more than a charity case for the steelers. He did not get it in washington and the light bulb still hasn't gone off yet for him according to what we have seen written about him so far. Haskins is a Bust!

Links? I'm on record as stating I don't think either MR or DH are the answer post-Ben. But, if you're going to throw something like "according to what we have seen written about him so far", ya gotta provide the links. And since you tied that in to "lacks a brain and work ethic", I'd especially like to see links to articles stating those two things since he's been with the Steelers.

Edit: Here, I'll start it off with a link about Haskin's Wonderlic score. He scored a 25. Which, if I'm not mistaken means he actually does have a brain. (I question his use of common sense).
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...quarterbacks-leaked/u2lx3yggn7kx1vm1hq0zrwf1j

 

[slashsteel]

Links? I'm on record as stating I don't think either MR or DH are the answer post-Ben. But, if you're going to throw something like "according to what we have seen written about him so far", ya gotta provide the links. And since you tied that in to "lacks a brain and work ethic", I'd especially like to see links to articles stating those two things since he's been with the Steelers.

Edit: Here, I'll start it off with a link about Haskin's Wonderlic score. He scored a 25. Which, if I'm not mistaken means he actually does have a brain. (I question his use of common sense).
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...quarterbacks-leaked/u2lx3yggn7kx1vm1hq0zrwf1j

I just question the desire. I really think he has the rest. For me just depends on his offseason. Did he go to extremes or was it another day at the office. Training camp will shed some light. Steelers are still wondering otherwise they would simply not give him a second look.

 

[livingthrudying]

Links? I'm on record as stating I don't think either MR or DH are the answer post-Ben. But, if you're going to throw something like "according to what we have seen written about him so far", ya gotta provide the links. And since you tied that in to "lacks a brain and work ethic", I'd especially like to see links to articles stating those two things since he's been with the Steelers.

Edit: Here, I'll start it off with a link about Haskin's Wonderlic score. He scored a 25. Which, if I'm not mistaken means he actually does have a brain. (I question his use of common sense).
https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nfl...quarterbacks-leaked/u2lx3yggn7kx1vm1hq0zrwf1j

I was referring to this season where there were reports and stories of him not being involved during games. It was discussed on this forum. I am not going back to find links for something that was months ago. THis wasn't some obscure situation. It was all over the place. And yes one time may not be the end of the world except that this was why he was let go in Washington. Not putting the work in, Trying to coast thru it.

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I was referring to this season where there were reports and stories of him not being involved during games. It was discussed on this forum. I am not going back to find links for something that was months ago. THis wasn't some obscure situation. It was all over the place. And yes one time may not be the end of the world except that this was why he was let go in Washington. Not putting the work in, Trying to coast thru it.

Ahhh, but you made the statement that he was "brainless". An implication that he lacked intelligence. A quick Google search showed that not to be the case. That part of your statement was based upon your erroneous opinion. You also said he "lacked work ethic". There are plenty of articles and quotes from last year where the coaches talk about the work he was putting in. Again, an erroneous statement. Here's one from September:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2021/09/steelers-believe-dwayne-haskins-has-great-upside/

So, you based your contentions that he wasn't putting the work in on one incident that, as I remember it, was based on the observation of one reporter and nothing ever came of it. An incident where no coach was quoted or identified. If there were other stories and incidents, please provide links. I, for one, never saw or heard about them.
On the other hand, there are articles, that had you looked, would have shown another side of the story. In short, you didn't put the work in and tried to coast through it. smh

Personally, I've seen nothing from Haskins that says he's the answer here. I've seen very little from Rudolph that says it either. But, those are just my opinions on them. I'd be happily surprised if either of them morphed into a long-term answer at QB for the Steelers.

 

[livingthrudying]

Ahhh, but you made the statement that he was "brainless". An implication that he lacked intelligence. A quick Google search showed that not to be the case. That part of your statement was based upon your erroneous opinion. You also said he "lacked work ethic". There are plenty of articles and quotes from last year where the coaches talk about the work he was putting in. Again, an erroneous statement. Here's one from September:

https://Invalid Link - Check SN Home Page/2021/09/steelers-believe-dwayne-haskins-has-great-upside/

So, you based your contentions that he wasn't putting the work in on one incident that, as I remember it, was based on the observation of one reporter and nothing ever came of it. An incident where no coach was quoted or identified. If there were other stories and incidents, please provide links. I, for one, never saw or heard about them.
On the other hand, there are articles, that had you looked, would have shown another side of the story. In short, you didn't put the work in and tried to coast through it. smh

Personally, I've seen nothing from Haskins that says he's the answer here. I've seen very little from Rudolph that says it either. But, those are just my opinions on them. I'd be happily surprised if either of them morphed into a long-term answer at QB for the Steelers.

I said the light bulb hasn't gone off yet referring to him needing to put in the work, referring to him needing to figure out what it takes to make it in the NFL. Your simply wanting to pick a fight.

Why was he released from Washington???? Everyone read the stories and reports that he was last one to show up and first one to leave practice. That he didn't put the work in and had an attitude problem. I'm not digging thru the internet to find specific links for someone that just wants to argue, wants to twist things around that people say to fit your narrative (or just your need to argue). It's fine if you think Haskins is gonna be good for the steelers. So far in his professional career he has not shown that it will happen. Could it? sure it could but it hasn't happened yet. The kid is going into his 4th season in the NFL. while the light bulb may come on at some point (i'll save you the trouble of going to look up if he's smart or not, this doesn't mean he is stupid it means he is lazy and entitled, big difference).

 

[SteelBuckeye]

ABout as good as i have at becoming the universe's first transgender outer space alien hippie christian baseball playing human sacrificing dictator of the multiverse. Haskins lacks a brain and work ethic to be anything more than a charity case for the steelers. He did not get it in washington and the light bulb still hasn't gone off yet for him according to what we have seen written about him so far. Haskins is a Bust!

I said the light bulb hasn't gone off yet referring to him needing to put in the work, referring to him needing to figure out what it takes to make it in the NFL. Your simply wanting to pick a fight.

Why was he released from Washington???? Everyone read the stories and reports that he was last one to show up and first one to leave practice. That he didn't put the work in and had an attitude problem. I'm not digging thru the internet to find specific links for someone that just wants to argue, wants to twist things around that people say to fit your narrative (or just your need to argue). It's fine if you think Haskins is gonna be good for the steelers. So far in his professional career he has not shown that it will happen. Could it? sure it could but it hasn't happened yet. The kid is going into his 4th season in the NFL. while the light bulb may come on at some point (i'll save you the trouble of going to look up if he's smart or not, this doesn't mean he is stupid it means he is lazy and entitled, big difference).

Am I really simply looking to pick a fight? Or, did you really say that the kid lacked a brain (a shot at his intelligence) and work ethic? Did I not supply links to dispute both of those claims? And, finally, what does what happened in Washington have to do with what he's doing in Pittsburgh? He's not a a Commander; he's a Steeler now. And, as a Steelers player, I wish him the best. Hell, the best case scenario would be that "the ligh bulb" goes off for both he and Rudolph and the Steelers could trade one of them for a something/someone of value. I don't see it happening. But, it would be great!

In any event, I'm not here to "pick a fight". We disagree about some of your personal observations about Haskin's intelligence and his willingness to put in the work since he's been a Steeler. So be it.

 

[Stryker]

Washington is a dumpster fire. No one wants to work there, let alone play there. Terrible atmosphere for anyone who wants to win.

 

[livingthrudying]

Am I really simply looking to pick a fight? Or, did you really say that the kid lacked a brain (a shot at his intelligence) and work ethic? Did I not supply links to dispute both of those claims? And, finally, what does what happened in Washington have to do with what he's doing in Pittsburgh? He's not a a Commander; he's a Steeler now. And, as a Steelers player, I wish him the best. Hell, the best case scenario would be that "the ligh bulb" goes off for both he and Rudolph and the Steelers could trade one of them for a something/someone of value. I don't see it happening. But, it would be great!

In any event, I'm not here to "pick a fight". We disagree about some of your personal observations about Haskin's intelligence and his willingness to put in the work since he's been a Steeler. So be it.

I would love for him to wake up and get it. There are different kinds of intelligence. Maybe it's all just misunderstanding. But yes the kid lacks a brain if he has a multi million dollar career in front of him and he can't kick himself in the butt enough to realize that he blew his chance on his first team. And when you see a report of him doing similar or same stuff here that he did with his first team (not taking his job serious) then yes what he did in washington is very important. That shows a pattern of behaviour.

If he could turn it around then it would absolutely be a blessing for us. However two different regimes in washington could not get thru to him, so much so that they gave up on a first round QB only after 2 years. Whether you like it or not that is a hell of a indictment on him. I don't have much faith in the coaching staff here to bring out the best in him (if there is indeed is more that can be gotten out of him. I have more faith than can be quantified that Tomlin will indeed be friends with him but that has nothing to do with unlocking whatever potential he has.

The kids pedigree as a player says he should absolutely not be a 3rd stringer on the bench and not active on game days. He for sure has way more raw talent and a higher ceiling than Mason. So who knows what's going on for sure. When your going on 4 years in the league and your a 3rd stringer i just don't see a lot of hope. I sure hope i eat those words.

 

[madinsomniac]

I'll answer your question with a question?

If the Steelers traded Mason Rudolph today what round pick do you think they would get in return?

Its a curious question… probably about what they put in… a third maybe as low as a fourth… several sites including cbs had him ranked in the top ten backup qbs… one as high as fifth i believe…
The one thing i think is Rudy is for certain a system qb… not an improvisational one like Ben was… there are teams with offenses that love that kind of guy and ours was definitely not one of them… i think in a place like Tennessee where he can be a game manager or a st louis type team where he would be asked to follow the offense exactly as drawn up and be a bit player rather than the driving force he could do well

What I’m not sure about and what will make or break him is his ability to win games in the final minutes of the game… that I haven’t really seen from him

 

[SteelBuckeye]

I would love for him to wake up and get it. There are different kinds of intelligence. Maybe it's all just misunderstanding. But yes the kid lacks a brain if he has a multi million dollar career in front of him and he can't kick himself in the butt enough to realize that he blew his chance on his first team. And when you see a report of him doing similar or same stuff here that he did with his first team (not taking his job serious) then yes what he did in washington is very important. That shows a pattern of behaviour.

If he could turn it around then it would absolutely be a blessing for us. However two different regimes in washington could not get thru to him, so much so that they gave up on a first round QB only after 2 years. Whether you like it or not that is a hell of a indictment on him. I don't have much faith in the coaching staff here to bring out the best in him (if there is indeed is more that can be gotten out of him. I have more faith than can be quantified that Tomlin will indeed be friends with him but that has nothing to do with unlocking whatever potential he has.

The kids pedigree as a player says he should absolutely not be a 3rd stringer on the bench and not active on game days. He for sure has way more raw talent and a higher ceiling than Mason. So who knows what's going on for sure. When your going on 4 years in the league and your a 3rd stringer i just don't see a lot of hope. I sure hope i eat those words.

There are several points you make here that I can agree with.

1. He's shown a lack of common sense/maturity during his time in the NFL. Although I put more stock in the Steelers lack of any reaction to Additi's story than I do in the story itself, you can't deny that his history follows him to some extent.

2. There's a perception that he doesn't work hard. I've seen evidence of this. But, I'm also aware of him putting in the time. Did you know that it was Haskins who organized workouts with Washington WRs during the lockdown so that they could come into camp with an awareness of the new playbook in 2020? How about the fact that between years 1 & 2 he shed 40 lbs and worked on his diet during the offseason? None of those things did **** for him when he made stupid off-field decisions, but they were signs of a maturing young kid who was learning to take his profession seriously. Personally, I'm glad that he's not out here showing off his "workout videos" and granting every interview request that comes along (So far). Might mean he's out there quietly working to improve. That said:

3) He's shown nothing to say he's the future in Pittsburgh. Pretty self-explanatory. But, I'll expound by saying that his reluctance to push the ball down the field during last year's preseason games was concerning. And, he seemed to lack the accuracy that made him so good during his one year starting at tOSU.

4) It would still be for the best if either he, Rudolph or both developed into something above adequate. I don't hold out much hope for either of them. Haskins has the tougher road in this regard (and a lot of that is his fault). But, he also has the higher pedigree and, I think upside, if he should be able to put it all together. (which I have doubts).

We'll see.