Does the Emperor have New Clothes? The Media's Mike Tomlin Lie

[BLITZ]

right - we all do. but, looking around the league there are only a few coaches who have won those. again, i'm neither for or against Tomlin...i just want a coach who is not only going to lead us to the promised land, but keep us there.

Agreed. I am starting to lean toward Tomlin will never get us back there so therefore not keep us there.
I think the NFL has changed since he came into the league.
Teams need offense minded coaches today. He is not

 

[Badcat]

The playoff stats are a completely valid criticism of Mike Tomlin. But damn, do I hate the coaching tree argument. I think people use it to sound smart. A few things with that:

1) Let's say you have a good racehorse, and when the racing career is over, they put him out to stud. But he doesn't produce any offspring that are any good on the track. Does that take away from the fact that he was a good racehorse?

2) To me a tree doesn't mean much if it doesn't bare fruit or the branches die. So great, Belechick has had a tree. None of them have done anything, probably because they ain't Belechick, but they want to be like him. They don't have the credibility. Noll didn't really have a tree. Shula didn't. Lombardi didn't. Coaching trees really only started to be talked about, as I recall, because of one of the biggest self promoters in coaching liked to talk about how great he was. Bill Walsh.

3) Using the Bill Walsh tree as an example, should a tree even be something we aspire Tomlin to have? Do you think when the Packers got good in the 90s and started to beat the 49ers, the 49ers consoled themselves by saying, "Well, at least we lost to Holmgren, he's is part of Walsh's tree!" I wonder if that would have made them feel better.

To me, it absolutely is a valid argument. Coach T is a good Coach but a very poor leader. Great leaders surround themselves with great talent and develops that talent to be their replacement someday. A measure of that development is success, and we simply don't see that with Coach T. He hires his old buddies rather than recruiting coaches who are exceptional at specific areas. He surrounds himself with agreeable men who he can deflect blame towards when things go south.

 

[Lloyd]

To me, it absolutely is a valid argument. Coach T is a good Coach but a very poor leader. Great leaders surround themselves with great talent and develops that talent to be their replacement someday. A measure of that development is success, and we simply don't see that with Coach T. He hires his old buddies rather than recruiting coaches who are exceptional at specific areas. He surrounds himself with agreeable men who he can deflect blame towards when things go south.

Absolutely, and if a legit leader sneaks in there as Munch did he finds himself out of a job quickly. Megalomaniacs don't like sharing space with real leaders.

 

[slashsteel]

I don't think he's a bad coach, bad coaches don't go 17 years without a losing season. Helped greatly by Big Ben and having the Bengals and Browns in his division.
But I don't think he's a great coach. Great coaches don't go 13 years with 3 playoff wins and none in the last 7 years.
Somewhere there's a disconnect because you'd think someone with no losing seasons would have more playoff wins.

Always thought the disconnect was an inability to X and O on offense. Hard to make critical game altering plays in the playoffs if you or an assistant isn’t proficient in this area.

I think he gave that ability to whomever ran the offense. Problem is everyone he gave it to was mediocre at best.

No coincidence this season is looking different (so far).

 

[BLITZ]

Absolutely, and if a legit leader sneaks in there as Munch did he finds himself out of a job quickly. Megalomaniacs don't like sharing space with real leaders.

You think Munchak left due to Tomlin?

 

[diver]

You think Munchak left due to Tomlin?

He does. It's like politics. Just repeat the same lie over and over.

 

[diver]

To me, it absolutely is a valid argument. Coach T is a good Coach but a very poor leader. Great leaders surround themselves with great talent and develops that talent to be their replacement someday. A measure of that development is success, and we simply don't see that with Coach T. He hires his old buddies rather than recruiting coaches who are exceptional at specific areas. He surrounds himself with agreeable men who he can deflect blame towards when things go south.

I don't disagree with some of that, but I just don't connect that to a coaching tree. Maybe I'm obtuse, but I just don't. I don't give a shiit if he develops coaches to go somewhere else and be successful. It seems self-defeating.

 

[BLITZ]

He does. It's like politics. Just repeat the same lie over and over.

His family must me involved in the cover up reason also.

 

[Black & Gold Bleeder]

His family must me involved in the cover up reason also.

Theyre all buddies.

 

[topseed]

To me, it absolutely is a valid argument. Coach T is a good Coach but a very poor leader. Great leaders surround themselves with great talent and develops that talent to be their replacement someday. A measure of that development is success, and we simply don't see that with Coach T. He hires his old buddies rather than recruiting coaches who are exceptional at specific areas. He surrounds himself with agreeable men who he can deflect blame towards when things go south.

We've all heard about Tomlin's Charlie Brown head coaching tree ad nauseum, but there was a detail pointed out in the video that I didn't know: Not a single assistant hired by Tomlin has gone on to even become a coordinator in the NFL? Has this been fact-checked? That is just mind-numbing if true.

 

[SteveA]

Tomlin is the best leader of men in the NFL.

 

[stillwright]

I don't think he's a bad coach, bad coaches don't go 17 years without a losing season. Helped greatly by Big Ben and having the Bengals and Browns in his division.
But I don't think he's a great coach. Great coaches don't go 13 years with 3 playoff wins and none in the last 7 years.
Somewhere there's a disconnect because you'd think someone with no losing seasons would have more playoff wins.

Similar to Marty Schottenheimer to a degree. Marty was awesome during the regular season. Then playoffs arrived.....then he wasn't awesome.

 

[Badcat]

Tomlin is the best leader of men in the NFL.

Define a leader

 

[Drink IRON City]

I agree, I don't give a rat's *** about a "coaching tree".

A lot of rats are happy about that……………..


Salute the nation

 

[Drink IRON City]

Define a leader

Is this a “fishing” question ???


Salute the nation

 

[SojournerSteel]

Define a leader

Tomlin has been running off that "NFL HC players would most like to play for" for a decade now and it's not the same as leadership.

 

[Badcat]

Is this a “fishing” question ???


Salute the nation

you challenging me Mono e Mono?

 

[Badcat]

Tomlin has been running off that "NFL HC players would most like to play for" for a decade now and it's not the same as leadership.

Agree 1000%

 

[Lloyd]

Similar to Marty Schottenheimer to a degree. Marty was awesome during the regular season. Then playoffs arrived.....then he wasn't awesome.

Marty suffered from the same malady as Cowher did: too much turtle ball when it counted. But Cowher was able to adjust in time to win it all.

 

[Lloyd]

We've all heard about Tomlin's Charlie Brown head coaching tree ad nauseum, but there was a detail pointed out in the video that I didn't know: Not a single assistant hired by Tomlin has gone on to even become a coordinator in the NFL? Has this been fact-checked? That is just mind-numbing if true.

Well Dick LeBeau did but that was after he was hired by Pgh? Before Shades anyhow.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

He does. It's like politics. Just repeat the same lie over and over.

I don’t generally ignore people as virtually all the posters here bring a nugget of insight or perspective to the table at least once in a while. But I must say since I hit that golden ignore button he’s brought as much football insight as he had before I hit that button.

This forum has been much more enjoyable the last week, no coincidence.

Eventually even the most tolerant get tired of the same unsubstantiated bs or lies or whatever ya wanna call it.

In the past I’ve definitely been on the other side of several exchanges with you, but you always bring perspective that makes me challenge my own line of thinking…much appreciated diver! Thats what makes a great forum.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

I don't disagree with some of that, but I just don't connect that to a coaching tree. Maybe I'm obtuse, but I just don't. I don't give a shiit if he develops coaches to go somewhere else and be successful. It seems self-defeating.

I’d be ecstatic if the squirrel would gather a golden acorn from another oak tree every now and then. He doesn’t have to be the oak tree, just knowing the location of an oak tree would suffice.

 

[Drink IRON City]

you challenging me Mono e Mono?

I was just asking for a Friend…………


Salute the nation

 

[stillwright]

Well Dick LeBeau did but that was after he was hired by Pgh? Before Shades anyhow.

HIRED by Tomlin. Tomlin Inherited Dick. And Bruce.

 

[ExUSAF]

I thought the article was pretty much spot on. Tomlin isn't a bad coach or he'd have been replaced by now. He is mediocre - he doesn't win playoff games and I can't think of a single player that has gotten better under his tutelage so he doesn't develop players either. He's played Jones out of position and now he's a liability rather than an asset. Since ownership is satisfied with mediocrity he's got the perfect environment.