Does the Emperor have New Clothes? The Media's Mike Tomlin Lie

[Sarge]

Define a leader

Influencing people to accomplish a mission and improve and organization by providing purpose, direction and motivation.

 

[Sarge]

Big play willie gay comes to mind regarding players that improved under Tomlin.

How about a great rookie season from Claypool?

Highsmith was a hidden gem.

I don't think Tomlin is a great coach but gotta recognize the good too

A great rookie season isn't an improvement. It is a starting point. Guy went down hill from there. I don't think that's a great example.

 

[slashsteel]

Rooneys being one of the cheapest owners doesn't help.

Do you feel because you are cheap here at Steelernation that gives you a heads up on what else is cheap? Sort of hypocritical cooch.

I now return you to your daily diss derps.

 

[Litos]

A great rookie season isn't an improvement. It is a starting point. Guy went down hill from there. I don't think that's a great example.

Valid point.

 

[diver]

There is one other thing I would add to counter the argument many have made that he didn't win with Cowher's team. The video creator shows the 2005 Cowher championship roster and compares it to the 08 roster(Tomlin's Lombardi year) he should compare it to 2006, Cowher's last year. And the reason why is in that year they trade for Ryan Clark, draft Willie Colon, and draft one guy that would prove to be important to Tomlin's SB title. His name, Santonio Holmes.

Like I said I'm not a Tomlin hater, but to deny he won because of Cowher's players and even coaches is really silly no matter how many times Stephen A. Smith shouts it or Rich Eisen whispers it into everyone's ear.

No one is denying he won with Cowher players. That is not the point. The point is he won, nothing else, for that moment in time, matters, unless you can guarantee that Cowher, had he stayed, would have won with that team. Since you can't, the argument is lousy.

 

[diver]

I have a friend who ties flies. He makes great flies that work. I have caught many trout using his flies. Should I get credit for the catch, or should he, since he tied the fly? Or should my catch be downgraded in any way because I used his fly?

 

[topseed]

I have a friend who ties flies. He makes great flies that work. I have caught many trout using his flies. Should I get credit for the catch, or should he, since he tied the fly? Or should my catch be downgraded in any way because I used his fly?

As long as you don't unzip his fly, you should be fine.

 

[diver]

As long as you don't unzip his fly, you should be fine.

He ain't that good looking.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

Say what you will about Tomlin. But he is more successful than any of us on this board.

Define success

Has a better football record…sure

More successful than anyone on this board? Questionable at best

I for one don’t measure success by bank account or football wins, but that’s just my priority system where both of those things are ranked pretty far down my list as they are both largely meaningless in a grander scheme of things.

 

[BLITZ]

Define success

Has a better football record…sure

More successful than anyone on this board? Questionable at best

I for one don’t measure success by bank account or football wins, but that’s just my priority system where both of those things are ranked pretty far down my list as they are both largely meaningless in a grander scheme of things.

He is at the top of his craft. make more $$ than all of us, well respected amounst peers. Will be a hall of famer 5 years from retirement.

all of us what ever business we run, woyld be in the Hall of really really good.

 

[SteveA]

Anyone > than Tomlin who gave up ON AVERAGE 40+ points per last 4 playoff games. He's a "defensive genius."

There’s a game tonight this is drivel…

 

[diver]

Define success

Has a better football record…sure

More successful than anyone on this board? Questionable at best

I for one don’t measure success by bank account or football wins, but that’s just my priority system where both of those things are ranked pretty far down my list as they are both largely meaningless in a grander scheme of things.

I agree. But why do we get so upset at the whole thing? Tomlin a just a football coach. The Steelers are just a football team. And, it's just football. Their success or lack thereof changes nothing for any of us except our mood. Hell, I'm guilty as anyone. Not nearly as much as I used to be, but still.

 

[Gildong Sack]

No one is denying he won with Cowher players. That is not the point. The point is he won, nothing else, for that moment in time, matters, unless you can guarantee that Cowher, had he stayed, would have won with that team. Since you can't, the argument is lousy.

I don't understand what you wrote there other than the first part. Many in both the fanbase and the media deny that it was because of the team he was handed that he won the Super Bowl. You need to visit other sites and sources besides this one and read what people have to say.

 

[Steelersfan84]

Mike Tomlin inherited a sb winning future hof qb who was already 5-1 in the postseason with two AFC championship games and a sb win, two future defensive players of the year, a hof defensive coordinator who would give him a top five defense six years in a row, and a team that was top 10 on both sides of the ball in 2006 and one year removed from a sb. If you think all of that was NOT the reason Tomlin went to two sbs in three years after going 31st against the pass in MN as defensive coordinator in 2006, you are delusional!

Pitt led the NFL in pro bowl appearances between 2011-2021 with 52 with only 3 playoff wins to show for it. Know why? Because he couldn't keep inheriting established sb contenders featuring a future hof qb.

 

[Fiji Mariner]

He is at the top of his craft. make more $$ than all of us, well respected amounst peers. Will be a hall of famer 5 years from retirement.

all of us what ever business we run, woyld be in the Hall of really really good.

So we obviously have different priorities and values to success

As I said money pretty far down on my list
Obviously ranks higher on yours

Totally fair to prioritize your list however you like, we will just have to agree to have different definitions of what success is/looks like.

To me success is improvememt, evolution and pursuit of happiness…growth

Rarely has money made me happy and when it has the moments have been fleeting, and I’m not poor/lacking money by any means. Simply not how I measure success so his income factors little in my eyes.

Life experiences and what I’ve done for others rank very high on my list…we simply have different definitions of what success is.

Having saved lives in the past I view that as some
Of my biggest successes, again I value what you have done for others very high on my “success ratings list”…no feeling like it, money has never made me feel that way that’s for sure.

We Simply have differing priorities systems to what success is

 

[BLITZ]

So we obviously have different priorities and values to success

As I said money pretty far down on my list
Obviously ranks higher on yours

Totally fair to prioritize your list however you like, we will just have to agree to have different definitions of what success is/looks like.

To me success is improvememt, evolution and pursuit of happiness…growth

Rarely has money made me happy and when it has the moments have been fleeting, and I’m not poor/lacking money by any means. Simply not how I measure success so his income factors little in my eyes.

Life experiences and what I’ve done for others rank very high on my list…we simply have different definitions of what success is.

Having saved lives in the past I view that as some
Of my biggest successes, again I value what you have done for others very high on my “success ratings list”…no feeling like it, money has never made me feel that way that’s for sure.

We Simply have differing priorities systems to what success is

way way to deep for me. Go Steelers

 

[diver]

I don't understand what you wrote there other than the first part. Many in both the fanbase and the media deny that it was because of the team he was handed that he won the Super Bowl. You need to visit other sites and sources besides this one and read what people have to say.

Idk. I'll take your word for it. Maybe we are talking around each other. It seems to me most acknowledge he won with the team he inherited for the most part. It is a valid criticism of him that he has not built a team of his own that won anything. But my point is that there is no guarantee had Cowher stayed he would have won again with that team. We know Tomlin did. That should be all that matters for that moment in time. Enjoy it, don't denigrate it. Does that mean he should have a lifetime appointment as head coach? No.
I think legitimate frustrations like he hasn't built his own team to win are the source for "He won with Cowher guys!" I think you can say that without taking away from a Super Bowl win.

 

[Gildong Sack]

Idk. I'll take your word for it. Maybe we are talking around each other. It seems to me most acknowledge he won with the team he inherited for the most part. It is a valid criticism of him that he has not built a team of his own that won anything. But my point is that there is no guarantee had Cowher stayed he would have won again with that team. We know Tomlin did. That should be all that matters for that moment in time. Enjoy it, don't denigrate it. Does that mean he should have a lifetime appointment as head coach? No.
I think legitimate frustrations like he hasn't built his own team to win are the source for "He won with Cowher guys!" I think you can say that without taking away from a Super Bowl win.

I agree with some of what you are saying. I think what turns people off is the over selling of Tomlin...he is Mike McCarthy....no one worships McCarthy.

McCarthy 170-105-2 (.617)
Playoffs 11-11 (.500)
Career 181-116-2 (.609)

Tomlin 179-102-2 (.636)
Playoffs 8-10 (.444)
Career 187-112-2 (.625)

They are the same guy, except one guy won a Lombardi while facing the other guy. One guy can boast no losing seasons, and how many of those were Big Ben (Cowher drafted QB)willing and using his freakish talents to get those teams to victory? Yeah, most of them.

You are right there is no guarantee Cowher would have won any more Super Bowls...and it's also guaranteed Tomlin won his with Cowher's team. I can also easily see Cowher winning 2 more if he would have stayed for 6 or 7 more years.

Cowher was on his way to being the second winningest coach in NFL history behind Shula if he had stayed till the age of 63 like Shula.

Cowher 149-90-1 at the time of his retirement.
(.623) If that trend continues to 63 like Shula he would be 279-168-1
Only Shula would have more at 309...below Cowher would be Tom Landry, Bellichick, etc.

So like I said I believe he would have won at least 2 more just on his ability to build O-lines and defenses. Mike is no match... Mike's body of work speaks for itself

 

[Gildong Sack]

I have a friend who ties flies. He makes great flies that work. I have caught many trout using his flies. Should I get credit for the catch, or should he, since he tied the fly? Or should my catch be downgraded in any way because I used his fly?

Did your friend train you how to cast (train Cowher's players) Did he send his assistant to maybe teach you how to cast and reel your fly in(Dick LeBeau, Arians and other coaches)? And maybe on one of those after he handed the rod to you with a fish on the line you pulled it in...and you said "Look what I caught....a Lombardi"

 

[diver]

I agree with some of what you are saying. I think what turns people off is the over selling of Tomlin...he is Mike McCarthy....no one worships McCarthy.

McCarthy 170-105-2 (.617)
Playoffs 11-11 (.500)
Career 181-116-2 (.609)

Tomlin 179-102-2 (.636)
Playoffs 8-10 (.444)
Career 187-112-2 (.625)

They are the same guy, except one guy won a Lombardi while facing the other guy. One guy can boast no losing seasons, and how many of those were Big Ben (Cowher drafted QB)willing and using his freakish talents to get those teams to victory? Yeah, most of them.

You are right there is no guarantee Cowher would have won any more Super Bowls...and it's also guaranteed Tomlin won his with Cowher's team. I can also easily see Cowher winning 2 more if he would have stayed for 6 or 7 more years.

Cowher was on his way to being the second winningest coach in NFL history behind Shula if he had stayed till the age of 63 like Shula.

Cowher 149-90-1 at the time of his retirement.
(.623) If that trend continues to 63 like Shula he would be 279-168-1
Only Shula would have more at 309...below Cowher would be Tom Landry, Bellichick, etc.

So like I said I believe he would have won at least 2 more just on his ability to build O-lines and defenses. Mike is no match... Mike's body of work speaks for itself

Again, yes, he won with a largely Cowher built team. You are shadow boxing. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. My point is does it really matter? Should it matter? Tomlin won with that team. Anything else is speculation, which means it's bullshiit. I could care less who's team you want to consider it, I am just happy he won. It was a fun year. Winning that AFCC against the Ravens in Pittsburgh, and that whole game, the physicality of it, the weather, that's what I think about. The drive in the Super Bowl. Harrison's return. Not who's team it was.

Don't listen to the media. They are clueless, and all it does is aggravate.

 

[Gildong Sack]

Again, yes, he won with a largely Cowher built team. You are shadow boxing. I'm not disagreeing with you on that. My point is does it really matter? Should it matter? Tomlin won with that team. Anything else is speculation, which means it's bullshiit. I could care less who's team you want to consider it, I am just happy he won. It was a fun year. Winning that AFCC against the Ravens in Pittsburgh, and that whole game, the physicality of it, the weather, that's what I think about. The drive in the Super Bowl. Harrison's return. Not who's team it was.

Don't listen to the media. They are clueless, and all it does is aggravate.

I agree: I don't listen to the media...that's why I have the opinions I have. Look, I hope Tomlin wins the Super Bowl and everyone on here can say I suck and whatever else. I just want to win and I praised him for bringing the two QBs in. I went against everyone who wanted to keep playing Fields. When Tomlin decided he would play Russ I cheered his decision as I knew what Russ could do. I knew it was B.S. as far as him being washed. I hope we win it all, and that's why I wanted Russ to start as soon as possible.

 

[diver]

Did your friend train you how to cast (train Cowher's players) Did he send his assistant to maybe teach you how to cast and reel your fly in(Dick LeBeau, Arians and other coaches)? And maybe on one of those after he handed the rod to you with a fish on the line you pulled it in...and you said "Look what I caught....a Lombardi"

That made me laugh. My brother and I are in our 50s, and when we fish together, we are still competitive. My brother is generally a better fly fisherman than me, but one day about a year ago I was killing it and he was struggling. I ask him if he wanted me to hook a few for him to reel in. He didn't take that very well.

 

[Gildong Sack]

That made me laugh. My brother and I are in our 50s, and when we fish together, we are still competitive. My brother is generally a better fly fisherman than me, but one day about a year ago I was killing it and he was struggling. I ask him if he wanted me to hook a few for him to reel in. He didn't take that very well.

I hear you. I was hoping you wouldn't take that the wrong way. Just trying to illustrate how he was handed players, coaches, etc. I don't take that SB victory from him, I just take it with a grain of salt so to speak.

 

[TimesAreChanged]

I agree: I don't listen to the media...that's why I have the opinions I have. Look, I hope Tomlin wins the Super Bowl and everyone on here can say I suck and whatever else. I just want to win and I praised him for bringing the two QBs in. I went against everyone who wanted to keep playing Fields. When Tomlin decided he would play Russ I cheered his decision as I knew what Russ could do. I knew it was B.S. as far as him being washed. I hope we win it all, and that's why I wanted Russ to start as soon as possible.

Congratulations on cheering Russell Wilson. You certainly know more than an NFL head coach. Why are you sitting on your couch when you could be charting the course of a professional sports franchise? Do you have a resume?

We need to get your talents in front of the people who make decisions. With you at the helm of the Pittsburgh Steelers, the sky is the limit.

May I have your resume?

 

[Fiji Mariner]

So if Tomlin coaches 10 more years after this to reach that 63 (playing your woulda/coulda game you played with Cowher) that’s 170 more games

At his winning percentage of .636 that’s 108 more wins plus his 179 for 287
He has 9 more games this year so let’s just round down to 5 more for 292 total to Cowher’s 279 placing Mike only behind Shula in the woulda/coulda game and ahead of Cowher.

Thanks Gildong, now ya got me thinking of scenarios where we get 12 more years of Mike…this woulda/coulda game sucks.