• Please be aware we've switched the forums to their own URL. (again) You'll find the new website address to be www.steelernationforum.com Thanks
  • Please clear your private messages. Your inbox is close to being full.

Election Day 2020

Good luck with that.

Well, obviously as a democrat or someone that thinks our elected officials in Washington aren't all crooks would want that to happen. Go back to the "good 'ole days" of Clinton, Bush and Obama.

We will see what happens. Long time between now and January (when the first test in Georgia is) and a long time between now and 2022 (when the next test is).

I'm sure we'll all be debating and discussing the finer points of those elections.

We can sit back and attack Biden and his policies. That's always the easier side to pontificate from and the easier side to tear someone down for political purposes.
 
How in the system as it is do you get a legitimate third party? The entire system has been built for two parties.

Maybe this woman can inspire a return of the Whig party:

iu


I'll see myself out ...
 
Well, obviously as a democrat or someone that thinks our elected officials in Washington aren't all crooks would want that to happen. Go back to the "good 'ole days" of Clinton, Bush and Obama.

We will see what happens. Long time between now and January (when the first test in Georgia is) and a long time between now and 2022 (when the next test is).

I'm sure we'll all be debating and discussing the finer points of those elections.

We can sit back and attack Biden and his policies. That's always the easier side to pontificate from and the easier side to tear someone down for political purposes.

Our elected officials aren't all crooked. A good amount of them are selfish, shameless, and short sighted. Some are outright elected hitmen at this point. But there are decent politicians who are stuck in this mud without much ground to stand on and with much of their constituents lost in partisan-land and refusing to come to the middle on the things that the entire country should be able to agree on. If anyone has payed attention to what I've spoke about here it's that I fundamentally DO NOT have an issue with why voters did what they did in 2016. I didn't like either candidate and I didn't vote for either one. I think Hillary Clinton would have been a one term President as well.

My issue is that if you're going to to this and hitch your wagon to someone then you better make sure that they are not a grifter like Trump is. In some ways he's no better than the establishment politicians.
 
I could care less about the Republican Party. Had they, since Reagan left, actually fulfilled the stuff they ran on, Trump never is. It is just that simple.

We are an incredibly immature electorate. Granted, Trump too often ran around as an immature President. However, and this is important, his policies were mature. That is why I voted for him.

Just one thing I will highlight to illustrate. Women overwhelmingly voted against Trump. Boo hoo, he doesn't talk nice. But he didn't get involved in anymore entanglements in the Middle East, and was brining our young men and women home. Most of these women that didn't vote for him are mothers, right? Who the hell cares how he talks. He is keeping your kids out of useless wars. Grow up for crying out loud.

Another shame is some stuff he was getting done over there. Getting some of those Arb countries to make peace with Israel bypassing the Palestinians. If you know much about the Middle East, they stir the turd. Making them irrelevant is huge. Say goodbye to that with Biden.

Dammit!!!
 
Our elected officials aren't all crooked. A good amount of them are selfish, shameless, and short sighted. Some are outright elected hitmen at this point. But there are decent politicians who are stuck in this mud without much ground to stand on and with much of their constituents lost in partisan-land and refusing to come to the middle on the things that the entire country should be able to agree on. If anyone has payed attention to what I've spoke about here it's that I fundamentally DO NOT have an issue with why voters did what they did in 2016. I didn't like either candidate and I didn't vote for either one. I think Hillary Clinton would have been a one term President as well.

My issue is that if you're going to to this and hitch your wagon to someone then you better make sure that they are not a grifter like Trump is. In some ways he's no better than the establishment politicians.

Who? Give me one congressman or senator you like and you think is "honest" and doesn't lie.
 
If this is what you want that "voice" to sound like then you're in for a long dragged out slow and painful downfall. It won't happen this election cycle or maybe even in 2028 but eventually if this party retains the "Trump" image, rhetoric, and tactics then it's going to be a very bad ending. I would encourage people at this point to consider a legitimate third party before I would even consider that. It might happen regardless. No one here actually talks about both sides of this. You guys CLAIM to be frustrated with Republicans but all I ever here is how liberals are trying to tear this country to it's knees with socialism and cancel culture. If that's the case and you feel this way then lay it all out for real and don't sit here an act like it's ok to still back whatever decisions unhinged and desperate people may make.

Translation: Liberals should be able to act with no decorum. To insult their political opponents as they have for 30 years without impunity (Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza, Bush, Bush, Romney, Trump). They should be allowed to weaponize intelligence agencies and the IRS against their political opponents and constituents. They should be allowed to riot, burn, loot, destroy, kill without penalty. They should be allowed to call on their legions of supporters to harass and attack their political opponents in the streets, at their homes, in restaurants. They should be allowed to hang politicians they disagree with in effigy, sever their symbolic heads, create assassination-simulation videos without a care. Liberal leaders should be able to call Conservative citizens deplorables, rubes, racists, misogynists, Islamaphobes, homophobes and xenophobes. Liberals should be able to use technology companies to silence Conservative voices, not Liberal voices.

But if Republicans keep the Trump image, they are done..........

You are indeed delusional.
 
Three problems. I work for a company that sells blockchain.

First, it is just as susceptible to programs like HAMMER and SCORECARD.

Two, there are tons of security vulnerabilities at hand. Denial of service attacks, malware, and server penetration attacks can thwart blockchains.



Three, if you argue that is safe, you would subscribe to the following theory:



Here is the inherent problem with three above. Yes, one could argue, the vote is secure using this theory. But given THE CURRENT RULES, it doesn't matter. What do I mean? If we continue to allow no-ID voting, it doesn't matter if for instance, the ballot itself as input is invalid. Let's say ballot harvesting is still allowed and Ilhan Omar's henchmen now help the elderly jump online and cast their votes and manipulate said votes AS THEY ARE BEING INPUT. The record will be protected in the system, but the input is fraudulent. So what? We saw this year "ballot correcting" and "ballot harvesting." Say we move to "online voting" - do you not think centers won't be built to help those that are technologically incompetent? Or roving tech help like Geek Squad for Voting that won't go door to door with tablets to help people input their votes? Thousands upon thousands of people will now rove the streets with tablets encouraging votes..."just tap here, pick Biden" and without IDs...voila. Concerts will be thrown to harvest votes. Protests will be used to harvest votes. And on and on. Once the record is in, you may argue it is secure. Perhaps. Even so, if it is garbage in...it is still garbage.

After seeing you refer to Hammer and Scorecard here I'm just going to leave a link about Blockchain for others to read. There are other articles and papers discussing further use of blockchain technology in voting that people can find as well.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blockchain.asp
 
Translation: Liberals should be able to act with no decorum. To insult their political opponents as they have for 30 years without impunity (Kavanaugh, Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza, Bush, Bush, Romney, Trump). They should be allowed to weaponize intelligence agencies and the IRS against their political opponents and constituents. They should be allowed to riot, burn, loot, destroy, kill without penalty. They should be allowed to call on their legions of supporters to harass and attack their political opponents in the streets, at their homes, in restaurants. They should be allowed to hang politicians they disagree with in effigy, sever their symbolic heads, create assassination-simulation videos without a care. Liberal leaders should be able to call Conservative citizens deplorables, rubes, racists, misogynists, Islamaphobes, homophobes and xenophobes. Liberals should be able to use technology companies to silence Conservative voices, not Liberal voices.

But if Republicans keep the Trump image, they are done..........

You are indeed delusional.

I don't disagree with what you're saying about how people are being attacked and what people are being attacked but make no mistake that it is happening ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS. Liberals by and large are going to have a more diverse base and more people to answer to and to answer for. But no Democratic President has gotten in front of the country and said the vile and hateful **** that Trump has or dog whistled people to do so on his behalf or their own. Honestly no President has really. I didn't care for Bush all that much but the man at least carried himself with dignity. Which is more than I can say for Clinton on a personal level but they at least tried to treat the country with respect.

If the personal attacks weren't bad enough.......he used the mechanism of the DOJ to threaten and intimidate anyone who disagrees with him.

I have a ton of respect for Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson for at least acknowledging that this nationalism that you all speak so highly of is STILL tinged with racism in very insidious and uncomfortable ways.

I think what a lot of progressives are doing now is reactionary and wrong and they are trying to label anyone who doesn't agree with them as horrible people. But to sit here an say that there isn't a bridge to cross for a lot of people with this is ridiculous.

You were in here crying about how Madonna insulted conservatives and theres an army of "mean" liberals out there making the world a very unwelcoming place for conservatives. Who gives a **** about Madonna. I'd prefer if it doesn't reach the highest office though.
 
After seeing you refer to Hammer and Scorecard here I'm just going to leave a link about Blockchain for others to read. There are other articles and papers discussing further use of blockchain technology in voting that people can find as well.

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/b/blockchain.asp

I read that article as well.

My concern is that BlockChain protects the data once it is IN the system.

If we allow no voter IDs, ballot harvesting, and other illicit means of inputting electronic votes, then BlockChain is only protecting bad votes once inside the system. It doesn't provide secure voting from those aspects.

Here are the security vulnerabilities explained:

https://www.scientificamerican.com/...the-answer-for-secure-elections-probably-not/

Still, neither cryptographers nor election experts are impressed with blockchains’ potential to improve election integrity. Noted cryptographer Ron Rivest of the Massachusetts Institute of Technology sums up the bleak consensus among academics: “I don't know of any who think it’s a good idea, and within one or two years I expect all these companies to die.”

Blockchain voting would require more than simply replacing Bitcoin transactions with votes. “Bitcoin works because you don’t need [centrally issued] identities,” says Arthur Gervais, a blockchain researcher at University College London. Instead, users generate public “addresses,” which act like deposit-only account numbers for receiving money, along with secret digital “keys” that are needed to transfer money out of the corresponding accounts. Anyone can create key-address pairs willy-nilly. The catch: there is no recourse if you lose your secret key or leak it to a thief, in which case your address might as well contain the ashes of dollar bills.

This situation will not fly for government elections, where state and local authorities manage lists of eligible voters. Neither would most governments tolerate the possibility of a voter being disenfranchised if their digital voting key is swallowed by a damaged hard drive or stolen by a thief to cast a fraudulent vote.

This is why most blockchain election providers partially centralize the management of voter identities. Their systems are designed to query a consortium of several different identity databases such as government-issued IDs and fingerprints collected during registration to match the voter with a name from government voter rolls. A quorum of these identity authorities can also revoke lost or stolen voting keys. Similarly, the companies partially centralize the validation process to guard against malicious influence: Instead of allowing anyone to become a validator, the government or party organizing the election designates a consortium of universities, nongovernmental organizations and such whose consensus determines what makes it onto the blockchain.

Unlike a Bitcoin-style open model, this consortium-managed blockchain model is at least implementable without damaging the election process, says Joe Kiniry, CEO of elections security company Free & Fair and principal scientist at Galois, a software company specializing in trustworthy software. But switching to a consortium also wipes out the blockchain’s supposed security benefits. Having voter identities dispensed and revoked by central authorities puts voters back at the mercy of a few administrators who can decide which votes count. The role of validators, meanwhile, is reduced to auditing for fraudulent votes, which can be achieved far more simply. “Blockchains are a very interesting and useful technology for distributed consensus where there is no central authority. But elections just don’t fit that model,” says Microsoft senior cryptographer Josh Benaloh. Once a central entity is coordinating an election, “you might as well have that entity publish [vote] data on [a Web site], digitally sign it and be done.”

In fact, Kiniry and Gervais both contend blockchain technology does not even solve the core problems of online election integrity. “If you look at all the technology components necessary,” Kiniry says, a blockchain “only ticks, like, the first four boxes out of a hundred.” It works for recording votes, but even blockchain start-ups need additional layers of technology for thornier challenges such as validating voters, keeping ballots secret and letting each voter verify their vote was tallied.
 
I don't disagree with what you're saying about how people are being attacked and what people are being attacked but make no mistake that it is happening ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS. Liberals by and large are going to have a more diverse base and more people to answer to and to answer for. But no Democratic President has gotten in front of the country and said the vile and hateful **** that Trump has or dog whistled people to do so on his behalf or their own. Honestly no President has really. I didn't care for Bush all that much but the man at least carried himself with dignity. Which is more than I can say for Clinton on a personal level but they at least tried to treat the country with respect.

If the personal attacks weren't bad enough.......he used the mechanism of the DOJ to threaten and intimidate anyone who disagrees with him.

I have a ton of respect for Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson for at least acknowledging that this nationalism that you all speak so highly of is STILL tinged with racism in very insidious and uncomfortable ways.

I think what a lot of progressives are doing now is reactionary and wrong and they are trying to label anyone who doesn't agree with them as horrible people. But to sit here an say that there isn't a bridge to cross for a lot of people with this is ridiculous.

You were in here crying about how Madonna insulted conservatives and theres an army of "mean" liberals out there making the world a very unwelcoming place for conservatives. Who gives a **** about Madonna. I'd prefer if it doesn't reach the highest office though.

I think you are really confusing the point that we care about decorum (at least at this point). We wanted someone to rattle the cages of Washington. To rattle the cages of the complicit and bias media.

You don't think he accomplished that?

Personally, I think Bill Clinton is as immoral a person (in his heart) as Trump ever is or was. I think Clinton is more of a womanizer and chauvinist. I would argue Lyndon Johnson is by far the bigger racist. I would argue Obama is more corrupt with abuse of his executive branch powers. I would argue Nixon was more paranoid and deranged. I would argue Carter was more naïve. I would argue W. Bush has a smaller I.Q.

Yet all of them have been recent Presidents. And for the most part escaped the blatant wrath, hatred and outright smear campaign Trump has endured from our media.

Sure, all those Presidents had more "decorum" that was ingrained into them after YEARS of political "service" (more like indoctrination) learned from gaming the system and playing the "game" that is politics in this country. All of that decorum you so-call love is an ACT. It means NOTHING. There is no better actor than Joe Biden, a man who raised one of the most corrupt and immoral child of any President in our history. If you judge a man at all by how he raises and teaches his children ethics, than Biden fails on that worse than any President in modern history. Hunter Biden is the worst human being ever immediately related to a sitting President in my lifetime.

But no. You ignore that because Biden can "smile" well on camera, act the part of a "diplomat" (despite the proven corruption and lies), and know how to skirt and weasel his way out of tough questions from the media (i.e. lie but not lie).

Somehow you have put those characteristics of a person as being so important at being President? Really?

And yet, you question OUR decision making process......
 
Well, yeah, deljzc, but thank God unlike Trump, Biden never said that school integration would cause a "racial jungle" or call blacks "predators," or brag about working with segregationists, or talk about his warm relationships with George Wallace and Robert Byrd.

[Mrs. Steeltime whispers in Steeltime's ear]

Never mind.
 
I don't disagree with what you're saying about how people are being attacked and what people are being attacked but make no mistake that it is happening ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS. Liberals by and large are going to have a more diverse base and more people to answer to and to answer for. But no Democratic President has gotten in front of the country and said the vile and hateful **** that Trump has or dog whistled people to do so on his behalf or their own. Honestly no President has really. I didn't care for Bush all that much but the man at least carried himself with dignity. Which is more than I can say for Clinton on a personal level but they at least tried to treat the country with respect.

If the personal attacks weren't bad enough.......he used the mechanism of the DOJ to threaten and intimidate anyone who disagrees with him.

I have a ton of respect for Steve Schmidt and Rick Wilson for at least acknowledging that this nationalism that you all speak so highly of is STILL tinged with racism in very insidious and uncomfortable ways.

I think what a lot of progressives are doing now is reactionary and wrong and they are trying to label anyone who doesn't agree with them as horrible people. But to sit here an say that there isn't a bridge to cross for a lot of people with this is ridiculous.

You were in here crying about how Madonna insulted conservatives and theres an army of "mean" liberals out there making the world a very unwelcoming place for conservatives. Who gives a **** about Madonna. I'd prefer if it doesn't reach the highest office though.

It currently is on both sides. Make no mistake.

I will contend it was NOT for the 30 years prior to Trump. I believe and can support that by and large this negative rhetoric came from the Left, driven by a complicit media. You can go back to Reagan to see how poorly he was treated by the media. Then Bush. The media is 95% Liberal run. And they have run unchecked. And their behavior has been reprehensible.

Anyone not having seen this trend in how Republicans have been treated by the media and other politicians v how Democrats have been are simply blind. It's not even worth pointing out. If you haven't seen it, if you don't acknowledge it, you're blind. Period.

Your banter remains one sided. You point out him somehow using the DOJ to intimidate people. Can you point to one post where you objected to Lois Lerner and the IRS attacking Conservatives under Obama? Can you point to a post where you decried the Obama administration using intel agencies to spy on Trump when he was campaigning? Obama weaponized countless agencies against Americans and his political opponents. Not a word from you. None.

I agree with you, there is a bridge to cross. See...the thing is...that's not novel. It's not new. It's an action-reaction situation that has repeated itself for decades. When Bush Sr was in office, the media and Democrats were brutal to him. No apologies for it either. None. When Clinton took office, we were asked to "cross that bridge" and come together. Bush Jr enters office, and the bridge collapsed, the media turned worse, attacking him brutally, calling him dumb, stupid, and turned the tide to personal insults. The Left didn't ask for any unification during those 8 years. NONE. Obama entered office, once again...we were asked to unite, bring the country back together after a bitter and divisive time. Conservatives did. Again. Only to watch Obama destroy so much. And to watch Obama cause Trump.

Now...once again...we are being asked to cross the bridge and come together after watching for 30 years Liberals and Democrats and their media and their celebrities and their politicians act without impunity towards not only our leaders, but directly towards us, the citizens.

Yeah. **** that.

When I see Democrats/Liberals and the media take the high road when we control office and work to bridge the divide, after we have quite literally done so...I'll yield. But this is and has been a one way street and a double standard of behavior and ethics.

Once bitten, twice shy. Not again.
 
I think you are really confusing the point that we care about decorum (at least at this point). We wanted someone to rattle the cages of Washington. To rattle the cages of the complicit and bias media.

You don't think he accomplished that?

Personally, I think Bill Clinton is as immoral a person (in his heart) as Trump ever is or was. I think Clinton is more of a womanizer and chauvinist. I would argue Lyndon Johnson is by far the bigger racist. I would argue Obama is more corrupt with abuse of his executive branch powers. I would argue Nixon was more paranoid and deranged. I would argue Carter was more naïve. I would argue W. Bush has a smaller I.Q.

Yet all of them have been recent Presidents. And for the most part escaped the blatant wrath, hatred and outright smear campaign Trump has endured from our media.

Sure, all those Presidents had more "decorum" that was ingrained into them after YEARS of political "service" (more like indoctrination) learned from gaming the system and playing the "game" that is politics in this country. All of that decorum you so-call love is an ACT. It means NOTHING. There is no better actor than Joe Biden, a man who raised one of the most corrupt and immoral child of any President in our history. If you judge a man at all by how he raises and teaches his children ethics, than Biden fails on that worse than any President in modern history. Hunter Biden is the worst human being ever immediately related to a sitting President in my lifetime.

But no. You ignore that because Biden can "smile" well on camera, act the part of a "diplomat" (despite the proven corruption and lies), and know how to skirt and weasel his way out of tough questions from the media (i.e. lie but not lie).

Somehow you have put those characteristics of a person as being so important at being President? Really?

And yet, you question OUR decision making process......

I agree with the majority of this. Except your assessment of Trump as a person. Maybe it will take time for people to really look back on this and take this for what it is.

Like I said. I'm all for getting someone to "shake it up"......but a narcissist grifter is not the guy you want to carry a torch for. His family is just as awful too. Looking at him through the lens of history......and what most dictators have sounded like and acted like and what we know of impulsive people.....he's dangerous. And that's where I will always be on that.

Hunter Biden dated with his dead brothers widow. You don't get much scummier than that.

I feel like all of those men fundamentally put the country first more times than not and cared about what was best for the country. Lyndon Johnson is a great example. He was by most accounts a bullish and racist man but at the end of the day he did what he thought was right for his legacy and for the country. He put that before his own misgivings.

The characteristics of a person are very very important to being President. Especially when that person carries certain characteristics which are inherently harmful.
 
You were in here crying about how Madonna insulted conservatives and theres an army of "mean" liberals out there making the world a very unwelcoming place for conservatives. Who gives a **** about Madonna. I'd prefer if it doesn't reach the highest office though.

And let me address this point separately. I'm pretty fed up with people like you telling me "this is no big deal" - the army of "meanies" out there attacking us. As if we should somehow tolerate it. As if, it is somehow to be expected, that it is normal, that we should just deal with it

For one thing, you are acknowledging it exists while two, at the same time saying "we aren't prepared to cross that bridge." By dismissing it as "no bid deal," you are supporting it continuing.

You are in fact saying Conservatives need to be better but Madonna and Maxine Waters and Hillary and Jimmy Fallon and Rachel Maddow should be able to continue to say what they say and how they say it.

That is indeed RICH.

We have been called rubes, deplorables, racists, and every other -ist in the book by the elitists to our neighbors for simply being Conservative. Your side, every day people, are following their leaders' actions and words and it permeates to our every day lives.

You ask us to cross the bridge, while condoning your side continuing it with your very words above.

Yeah, but no. We are devolving. Many of us have had enough. Want to bridge the divide? Walk across the bridge first. I've travelled it too many times already only to be defamed at the other side.
 
I agree with the majority of this. Except your assessment of Trump as a person. Maybe it will take time for people to really look back on this and take this for what it is.

Like I said. I'm all for getting someone to "shake it up"......but a narcissist grifter is not the guy you want to carry a torch for. His family is just as awful too. Looking at him through the lens of history......and what most dictators have sounded like and acted like and what we know of impulsive people.....he's dangerous. And that's where I will always be on that.

Hunter Biden dated with his dead brothers widow. You don't get much scummier than that.

I feel like all of those men fundamentally put the country first more times than not and cared about what was best for the country. Lyndon Johnson is a great example. He was by most accounts a bullish and racist man but at the end of the day he did what he thought was right for his legacy and for the country. He put that before his own misgivings.

The characteristics of a person are very very important to being President. Especially when that person carries certain characteristics which are inherently harmful.

Bullshit about Lyndon Johnson. He had no "what's better for our country" bone in his body. Look what he did in Vietnam.

He used the good intentions of the civil rights movement to create a welfare state that would always vote Democrat. He is the WORST kind of politician. Not only bad promises, but promises that are (under the surface) even worse for you than what you had to start.

See, I understand Trump is in his totality a pretty awful politician. Fine. But the reality is not ONE reasonable person in the media says..... "You know, Clinton might be just as big a womanizer and chauvinist that Trump ever was, and we kind of "got over it" as a country". No. They made him out to be this great outlier of moral corruption. That he was somehow TEN TIMES WORSE than anything before him, even before he took one step as President.

They cried wolf and ran around with their heads cut off crying "The Sky is Falling! the Sky is Falling" literally from the moment he was elected in 2016 (and are still shouting it).

He did NOTHING to destroy this country or ruin its Constitution. In fact, he STRENGTHENED the Constitution just by the mere fact he nominated rigid Constitutionalists to the Supreme Court.

There is strong argument to be made that nominating activist judges does TEN TIMES more damage to our Constitution that anything Trump did. But you don't see it that way.

Once the dust settles on this Election, we are going to pine back to the jobless rates in 2019. The lack of wars in the Middle East from 2018-2020. Envious of when we were actually tough on China and gaining ground in terms of trade and intellectual property rights (not just lip service). And back when America was where EVERYONE in the world wanted to invest their money because Socialism was bankrupting some European countries and China was finally starting to bend under the burden of poor human rights record and a growing middle class and violent protests in Hong Kong.

Then the Corona Virus hit and magically, none of that matters anymore. One out of only ONE HUNDRED black men killed unlawfully by police was caught on film and Trump is BAD MAN for not being as sympathetic on some of the most racist and one-sided policy proposals I've ever even listened too come out of REAL political mouths. And yes, I mean policies that ONLY apply to black men just because of the color of their skin, which is the DEFINITION of racism. Or ignore violence and riots because "They need to blow off steam".

We will see what happens under a do-nothing government and how much Biden can rule with a cell phone and a pen with executive orders. There are plenty of Republican DA's around the country waiting to sue Biden on every one (just like the Democrats did). And they will all end up in front of Trump appointed judges and finally at a 6-3 conservative Supreme Court.
 
Last edited:
And let me address this point separately. I'm pretty fed up with people like you telling me "this is no big deal" - the army of "meanies" out there attacking us. As if we should somehow tolerate it. As if, it is somehow to be expected, that it is normal, that we should just deal with it

For one thing, you are acknowledging it exists while two, at the same time saying "we aren't prepared to cross that bridge." By dismissing it as "no bid deal," you are supporting it continuing.

You are in fact saying Conservatives need to be better but Madonna and Maxine Waters and Hillary and Jimmy Fallon and Rachel Maddow should be able to continue to say what they say and how they say it.

That is indeed RICH.

We have been called rubes, deplorables, racists, and every other -ist in the book by the elitists to our neighbors for simply being Conservative. Your side, every day people, are following their leaders' actions and words and it permeates to our every day lives.

You ask us to cross the bridge, while condoning your side continuing it with your very words above.

Yeah, but no. We are devolving. Many of us have had enough. Want to bridge the divide? Walk across the bridge first. I've travelled it too many times already only to be defamed at the other side.

For every Madonna, and Maxine Waters there is a Rush Limbaugh and a Alex Jones. There's Steve King. There's Ted Nugent. Honestly people are going to be ****** especially if there is an audience. A lot of liberals from that point of view are out of touch because you take someone like Ellen who tries to act like she's gods gift but then treats people like complete **** behind closed doors. These people aren't ****. But unfortunately that isn't limited to ideology.
 
I agree with the majority of this. Except your assessment of Trump as a person. Maybe it will take time for people to really look back on this and take this for what it is.

Like I said. I'm all for getting someone to "shake it up"......but a narcissist grifter is not the guy you want to carry a torch for. His family is just as awful too. Looking at him through the lens of history......and what most dictators have sounded like and acted like and what we know of impulsive people.....he's dangerous. And that's where I will always be on that.

We feel the exact same about Obama and Biden, believe me.

Lyndon Johnson is a great example. He was by most accounts a bullish and racist man but at the end of the day he did what he thought was right for his legacy and for the country. He put that before his own misgivings.

Yeah, you just lost your credibility there, referencing LBJ. Like....holy **** man?

LBJ instituted what many claim to be the further enslavement of African Americans with the Welfare Act, which hasn't put a dent into poverty and led to the exacerbated destruction of the African American family. It created an entire population of welfare dependents.

Upon signing it...you know...he infamously said "I'll have these n***rs voting Democrat for the next 200 years."

Credible accounts, however, revealed LBJ engaged in racist acts, including verbal abuse and surveillance. He had a strong affinity for racial stereotypes and antiblack slurs. As he fought to desegregate schools and unlock educational and economic opportunities for Black people, he routinely berated his Black employees, calling them “furniture.”

LBJ also continued the Kennedy administration’s wiretapping of Martin Luther King, Jr., and mired his decision to nominate Thurgood Marshall, the first Black supreme court justice, with slurs and tokenization

I mean my God, you talk about decorum and the lack of it Trump had. Do you even know who LBJ was???

---------------------

The most vulgar American president ever? It sure as #$@!%* isn't Donald Trump
How repulsive was Lyndon B. Johnson? Contact with him put one at risk of encountering a profane spectacle of burping, farting and crotch-scratching

As the world awaits the next nasty utterance from Donald Trump, one can only marvel at how history itself has ended up in (language alert!) — a “shithole.” Amid the chronic shock and horrified reactions, people have become blind to the fact that he is not (yet) the most disgusting U.S. president in living memory. That title actually belongs to a Texan Democrat, Lyndon B. Johnson, a howling, flatulent tormentor of women whose cussing and racism remain breathtaking today. And if you’re offended by Trump’s level of vulgarity, you really — really — don’t want to read any further.

How Johnson got away with his behaviour for so long was complicated, but distraction helped. The very way he attained power — by succeeding the slain John F. Kennedy — caused some critics (notably writer Robert Sherrill and activist Barbara Garson) to focus scornfully on that. The agony of the Vietnam War likewise diverted attention.

But Johnson was also an intense networker, and he succeeded in cultivating or otherwise entangling several prominent journalists, including Walter Lippman and Drew Pearson, as well as Washington Post owner Katherine Graham. According to biographers Ronald Steel and Oliver Pilat, plus Graham’s own 1997 memoir, these personal ties undermined a lot of objectivity in the press.

Indeed, numerous Washington insiders — reporters, officials, cronies — did not reveal their knowledge of Johnson’s ugly side until 1980, when oral biographer Merle Miller coaxed them. Later biographers, including Robert A. Caro, Robert Dallek, and Randall B. Woods, have added to the revelations.

As well, it was not widely known for years that Johnson had a recording system in the Oval Office. This system, like the more infamous one of Richard Nixon, captured many very regrettable comments, but it would not be definitively described until a 1999 book by historian William Doyle. (Transcripts of the recordings were edited and released through historian Michael R. Beschloss beginning in the late 1990s.)

Finally, one reaction to Johnson’s coarse language was a tendency to sanitize the public record. British journalist Henry Brandon has recalled how The Washington Post rendered “bullshit” as “bull.”

So, exactly how repulsive was Johnson? He was horrid enough that the way he said things was almost as bad as what he said. Anyone who came into contact with him was at risk of encountering a spectacle of burping, farting, nose-picking and crotch-scratching. Congressman Richard Bolling, who witnessed some of this, told Merle Miller: “I wouldn’t say Johnson was vulgar — he was barnyard.” Worse, Johnson had no sense of personal space and treated conversation as a creepy hands-on affair. Miller learned from Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee that, “You really felt as if a St. Bernard had licked your face for an hour, had pawed you all over.”

For women, the ordeal was even worse, and Bradlee claimed that Johnson groped Katharine Graham and was “bumping” up against the breasts of Washington Post writer Meg Greenfield. (In her memoir, Graham says nothing of this and is suspiciously quiet about almost all of Johnson’s peculiarities. She does admit he kissed her on the cheek at least once.)

A truly unlucky few even got to see Johnson relieve himself. Reporter Sam Schaffer toured Johnson’s Texan ranch and was stunned when Johnson urinated right in front of him, in the open. Arthur Goldschmidt, a friend and United Nations official, was in the Oval Office with Johnson when the latter suddenly headed for the washroom, “took a crap, then shaved and showered, all the while continuing his conversation as though what he was doing was the most normal thing in the world.”

As for what Johnson was actually saying during all the above, he was known for folksy aphorisms that were crude, sometimes racist, and often weird, including “it was raining as hard as a cat pissing on a flat rock,” “as straight as an Indian *****,” and the importance of fighting an opponent “till he’s ****** as a bear.” These became more disturbing in his retirement years, when UPI reporter Bill Theis was told by him that subsequent White House economic policies were “the worst thing that’s happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-*******.” (That quote apparently was passed around as insider gossip until it got to Miller via Richard Bolling.)

The pantyhose bit was part of a troubling pattern. Biographer Woods learned that Johnson would tell close friends that his own wife, the delightfully named Lady Bird, was “the best piece of *** I ever had” (but he still cheated on her). Recorded Oval Office telephone conversations include a 1964 exchange with staffer Ralph Dungan concerning female appointees to government positions. Johnson kept asking Dungan about their looks. Former staffer Yolanda Boozer told Miller that Johnson would comment if female White House employees gained any weight, provoking anxious dieting.

Regardless of gender, Johnson’s treatment of subordinates could be appalling. In one of her very rare confirmations of Johnson’s behaviour, Katherine Graham says she saw Johnson apoplectically yelling at aide Jack Valenti over some mistake. She describes the tirade as “callous and inhuman.” A senior adviser, James H. Rowe Jr., reportedly quit after witnessing a similar incident. Johnson’s own vice-president, Hubert Humphrey, informed Miller that Johnson’s need to control people caused him to say of certain individuals that, “I’ve got his pecker in my pocket.”

And then there was the N-word. Although Johnson styled himself as a civil rights crusader and did make progress on race relations, he still presided over a United States torn by racial violence. His public and private statements showed that he never realized he himself may have been part of the problem. For example, Robert A. Caro says he referred to the manual labour of his youth as “n—-r work.”

A recorded 1964 telephone conversation with the hapless Jack Valenti touched on Johnson’s electoral chances in Texas for an upcoming presidential race: “I think I can take every Mexican in the state and every n—-r in the state.” Several weeks before that presidential vote, Johnson spoke before a New Orleans crowd about how Southern politicians constantly twisted all issues towards race. That was a valid point, but then the speech became strange: “All they (the voters) ever hear at election time is n—-r, n—-r, n—-r!” Woods discovered that somebody sanitized the official record of the speech, substituting the word “Negro,” but witnesses confirmed what was really said. Robert Dallek learned of a 1967 meeting in the Oval Office with Texan state official Larry Temple, concerning possible black candidates for the Supreme Court. Johnson stressed he would consider only high-profile people: “When I appoint a n—-r to the bench, I want everyone to know he’s a n—-r.”

Unsurprisingly, when black rioting erupted in Los Angeles in 1965, Johnson was bewildered, and he confided to aide Joseph Califano his fear that “Negroes will end up pissing in the aisles of the Senate.”

In the end, however, it was the uncontrollable Vietnam War that destroyed Johnson’s administration and wrecked his legacy. William Doyle unearthed a fitting quote from a moment in mid-1965, when Johnson was moodily strolling on the grounds of the White House, cursing: “I don’t know what the **** to do about Vietnam.”

Top that, Trump.

---------------------

I guess now you're gonna come back and say "but he did good things." Then you'd understand why we voted for and supported Trump. Don't judge a man on his decorum, judge him on his actions. But you can't say that now...you'll be in a painted corner eh?
 
I have to agree with Tim.

I have now watched the media closely in how they reported the aftermath of elections in 2000, 2008, 2016 and now in 2020. (I was too drunk and in college to pay much attention in 1992).

If you can't see or hear the difference in tone from our so-called "impartial" media, you are as stupid as your are deaf. And I would even say listen ONLY to NBC, CBS and ABC for the difference. Look up the different headlines in USA Today or NPR. They are supposed to be the best of the best in media and journalism. The most "impartial", correct? The old guard.

Every time, as Tim says, when Republicans win, it is "dark times" and they promote "fear of the unknown" and "division". Every time a Democrat wins, it is a celebration. The sun has come back from behind a cloud. It is a time of optimism and mending and togetherness.

The hypocrisy is so thick and so blatant it practically makes my blood boil in frustration and anger.
 
We feel the exact same about Obama and Biden, believe me.



Yeah, you just lost your credibility there, referencing LBJ. Like....holy **** man?

LBJ instituted what many claim to be the further enslavement of African Americans with the Welfare Act, which hasn't put a dent into poverty and led to the exacerbated destruction of the African American family. It created an entire population of welfare dependents.

Upon signing it...you know...he infamously said "I'll have these n***rs voting Democrat for the next 200 years."



I mean my God, you talk about decorum and the lack of it Trump had. Do you even know who LBJ was???

---------------------

The most vulgar American president ever? It sure as #$@!%* isn't Donald Trump
How repulsive was Lyndon B. Johnson? Contact with him put one at risk of encountering a profane spectacle of burping, farting and crotch-scratching

As the world awaits the next nasty utterance from Donald Trump, one can only marvel at how history itself has ended up in (language alert!) — a “shithole.” Amid the chronic shock and horrified reactions, people have become blind to the fact that he is not (yet) the most disgusting U.S. president in living memory. That title actually belongs to a Texan Democrat, Lyndon B. Johnson, a howling, flatulent tormentor of women whose cussing and racism remain breathtaking today. And if you’re offended by Trump’s level of vulgarity, you really — really — don’t want to read any further.

How Johnson got away with his behaviour for so long was complicated, but distraction helped. The very way he attained power — by succeeding the slain John F. Kennedy — caused some critics (notably writer Robert Sherrill and activist Barbara Garson) to focus scornfully on that. The agony of the Vietnam War likewise diverted attention.

But Johnson was also an intense networker, and he succeeded in cultivating or otherwise entangling several prominent journalists, including Walter Lippman and Drew Pearson, as well as Washington Post owner Katherine Graham. According to biographers Ronald Steel and Oliver Pilat, plus Graham’s own 1997 memoir, these personal ties undermined a lot of objectivity in the press.

Indeed, numerous Washington insiders — reporters, officials, cronies — did not reveal their knowledge of Johnson’s ugly side until 1980, when oral biographer Merle Miller coaxed them. Later biographers, including Robert A. Caro, Robert Dallek, and Randall B. Woods, have added to the revelations.

As well, it was not widely known for years that Johnson had a recording system in the Oval Office. This system, like the more infamous one of Richard Nixon, captured many very regrettable comments, but it would not be definitively described until a 1999 book by historian William Doyle. (Transcripts of the recordings were edited and released through historian Michael R. Beschloss beginning in the late 1990s.)

Finally, one reaction to Johnson’s coarse language was a tendency to sanitize the public record. British journalist Henry Brandon has recalled how The Washington Post rendered “bullshit” as “bull.”

So, exactly how repulsive was Johnson? He was horrid enough that the way he said things was almost as bad as what he said. Anyone who came into contact with him was at risk of encountering a spectacle of burping, farting, nose-picking and crotch-scratching. Congressman Richard Bolling, who witnessed some of this, told Merle Miller: “I wouldn’t say Johnson was vulgar — he was barnyard.” Worse, Johnson had no sense of personal space and treated conversation as a creepy hands-on affair. Miller learned from Washington Post editor Ben Bradlee that, “You really felt as if a St. Bernard had licked your face for an hour, had pawed you all over.”

For women, the ordeal was even worse, and Bradlee claimed that Johnson groped Katharine Graham and was “bumping” up against the breasts of Washington Post writer Meg Greenfield. (In her memoir, Graham says nothing of this and is suspiciously quiet about almost all of Johnson’s peculiarities. She does admit he kissed her on the cheek at least once.)

A truly unlucky few even got to see Johnson relieve himself. Reporter Sam Schaffer toured Johnson’s Texan ranch and was stunned when Johnson urinated right in front of him, in the open. Arthur Goldschmidt, a friend and United Nations official, was in the Oval Office with Johnson when the latter suddenly headed for the washroom, “took a crap, then shaved and showered, all the while continuing his conversation as though what he was doing was the most normal thing in the world.”

As for what Johnson was actually saying during all the above, he was known for folksy aphorisms that were crude, sometimes racist, and often weird, including “it was raining as hard as a cat pissing on a flat rock,” “as straight as an Indian *****,” and the importance of fighting an opponent “till he’s ****** as a bear.” These became more disturbing in his retirement years, when UPI reporter Bill Theis was told by him that subsequent White House economic policies were “the worst thing that’s happened to this country since pantyhose ruined finger-*******.” (That quote apparently was passed around as insider gossip until it got to Miller via Richard Bolling.)

The pantyhose bit was part of a troubling pattern. Biographer Woods learned that Johnson would tell close friends that his own wife, the delightfully named Lady Bird, was “the best piece of *** I ever had” (but he still cheated on her). Recorded Oval Office telephone conversations include a 1964 exchange with staffer Ralph Dungan concerning female appointees to government positions. Johnson kept asking Dungan about their looks. Former staffer Yolanda Boozer told Miller that Johnson would comment if female White House employees gained any weight, provoking anxious dieting.

Regardless of gender, Johnson’s treatment of subordinates could be appalling. In one of her very rare confirmations of Johnson’s behaviour, Katherine Graham says she saw Johnson apoplectically yelling at aide Jack Valenti over some mistake. She describes the tirade as “callous and inhuman.” A senior adviser, James H. Rowe Jr., reportedly quit after witnessing a similar incident. Johnson’s own vice-president, Hubert Humphrey, informed Miller that Johnson’s need to control people caused him to say of certain individuals that, “I’ve got his pecker in my pocket.”

And then there was the N-word. Although Johnson styled himself as a civil rights crusader and did make progress on race relations, he still presided over a United States torn by racial violence. His public and private statements showed that he never realized he himself may have been part of the problem. For example, Robert A. Caro says he referred to the manual labour of his youth as “n—-r work.”

A recorded 1964 telephone conversation with the hapless Jack Valenti touched on Johnson’s electoral chances in Texas for an upcoming presidential race: “I think I can take every Mexican in the state and every n—-r in the state.” Several weeks before that presidential vote, Johnson spoke before a New Orleans crowd about how Southern politicians constantly twisted all issues towards race. That was a valid point, but then the speech became strange: “All they (the voters) ever hear at election time is n—-r, n—-r, n—-r!” Woods discovered that somebody sanitized the official record of the speech, substituting the word “Negro,” but witnesses confirmed what was really said. Robert Dallek learned of a 1967 meeting in the Oval Office with Texan state official Larry Temple, concerning possible black candidates for the Supreme Court. Johnson stressed he would consider only high-profile people: “When I appoint a n—-r to the bench, I want everyone to know he’s a n—-r.”

Unsurprisingly, when black rioting erupted in Los Angeles in 1965, Johnson was bewildered, and he confided to aide Joseph Califano his fear that “Negroes will end up pissing in the aisles of the Senate.”

In the end, however, it was the uncontrollable Vietnam War that destroyed Johnson’s administration and wrecked his legacy. William Doyle unearthed a fitting quote from a moment in mid-1965, when Johnson was moodily strolling on the grounds of the White House, cursing: “I don’t know what the **** to do about Vietnam.”

Top that, Trump.

---------------------

I guess now you're gonna come back and say "but he did good things." Then you'd understand why we voted for and supported Trump. Don't judge a man on his decorum, judge him on his actions. But you can't say that now...you'll be in a painted corner eh?

We could talk about the 60's all day. All day. He did accomplish a lot as President. He got Medicare and Medicaid passed while President. The Voting Rights Act. The Civil Rights Act. But trust there's no pictures of LBJ hanging up in any black people's houses man. He was by most accounts an awful person in his dealings with people and his personal views were beneath the office. However as disgusting his comments were or his behavior he finished the job. The shift in voting demographics was immense and wouldn't really be felt for almost 30 years. We know all of this. It almost tore the Democratic party apart. So it wasn't some huge coup and no brainer initially. It was the right thing to do. Republicans were on their way to doing it themselves. Republicans were also a much more personal liberty party and socially conscience party at the times as well. Many Republicans were pro choice until the end of the 70's.
 
y'know - **** all this about Trump. He's likely not in the WH in February.

you know who will be around? AOC. What's AOC doing? The donkey-toothed ***** is wanting LISTS of Trump supporters. For retribution.

I've not seen a single instance of one Democrat or anyone leaning left say this shouldn't happen. No one on the Left is in disagreement with her. Why is that? Because all those ******* want Communism. Just like she does. Take this one square of toilet paper and use it to wipe your *** for a month, komrade.

bitching about Trump. **** off.
 
It currently is on both sides. Make no mistake.

I will contend it was NOT for the 30 years prior to Trump. I believe and can support that by and large this negative rhetoric came from the Left, driven by a complicit media. You can go back to Reagan to see how poorly he was treated by the media. Then Bush. The media is 95% Liberal run. And they have run unchecked. And their behavior has been reprehensible.

Anyone not having seen this trend in how Republicans have been treated by the media and other politicians v how Democrats have been are simply blind. It's not even worth pointing out. If you haven't seen it, if you don't acknowledge it, you're blind. Period.

Your banter remains one sided. You point out him somehow using the DOJ to intimidate people. Can you point to one post where you objected to Lois Lerner and the IRS attacking Conservatives under Obama? Can you point to a post where you decried the Obama administration using intel agencies to spy on Trump when he was campaigning? Obama weaponized countless agencies against Americans and his political opponents. Not a word from you. None.

I agree with you, there is a bridge to cross. See...the thing is...that's not novel. It's not new. It's an action-reaction situation that has repeated itself for decades. When Bush Sr was in office, the media and Democrats were brutal to him. No apologies for it either. None. When Clinton took office, we were asked to "cross that bridge" and come together. Bush Jr enters office, and the bridge collapsed, the media turned worse, attacking him brutally, calling him dumb, stupid, and turned the tide to personal insults. The Left didn't ask for any unification during those 8 years. NONE. Obama entered office, once again...we were asked to unite, bring the country back together after a bitter and divisive time. Conservatives did. Again. Only to watch Obama destroy so much. And to watch Obama cause Trump.

Now...once again...we are being asked to cross the bridge and come together after watching for 30 years Liberals and Democrats and their media and their celebrities and their politicians act without impunity towards not only our leaders, but directly towards us, the citizens.

Yeah. **** that.

When I see Democrats/Liberals and the media take the high road when we control office and work to bridge the divide, after we have quite literally done so...I'll yield. But this is and has been a one way street and a double standard of behavior and ethics.

Once bitten, twice shy. Not again.

That bridge is burned to ashes.They had C-4 rigged under the truss anyway.They can honestly all **** off with that bs..

blah..blah..we will be a bunch of nasty **** suckers for 12 . years..we want unity now. What a load of ****. Healing? What? That treasonous **** show the last 4 years? Burning and destroying causing billions in damage to innocent private citizens. And the democrats did NOTHING!

Unity..hahaha . That's some genuine comedy gold fictional bs.


As far as I'm concerned they really don't exist in my world anyway. Just stay in your lane and we're good .
 
All this talk of Trump turning people away is nonsense. He just got more black and hispanic votes than any Rep in history. Some may have been turned off by how he phrases things but his message is absolutely the future of the Rep party. Trump made the Reps the party of the working person.

All this stuff about tone is nonsense. The Trump populist message absolutely is what the country wants.
 
We could talk about the 60's all day. All day. He did accomplish a lot as President. He got Medicare and Medicaid passed while President. The Voting Rights Act. The Civil Rights Act. But trust there's no pictures of LBJ hanging up in any black people's houses man. He was by most accounts an awful person in his dealings with people and his personal views were beneath the office. However as disgusting his comments were or his behavior he finished the job. The shift in voting demographics was immense and wouldn't really be felt for almost 30 years. We know all of this. It almost tore the Democratic party apart. So it wasn't some huge coup and no brainer initially. It was the right thing to do. Republicans were on their way to doing it themselves. Republicans were also a much more personal liberty party and socially conscience party at the times as well. Many Republicans were pro choice until the end of the 70's.

And you did just what I said you would do.

We support Trump for what he does while recognizing he's a boorish rude SOB.

You argue that LBJ was a boorish rude SOB but look what he did!

You can't even see your own hypocrisy.

Thank you for making our point for the past 4 years.

EDIT: You give LBJ excuses because "of the time he lived in." We give Trump excuses for the time he lives in - a time where he's had to face relentless daily attacks and a soft coup since before he ever took oath. Face it. It is...exactly...the...same. You supporting LBJ given his transgressions is not ONE bit different than us supporting Trump given his. Not...one.
 
Last edited:
Top