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Ferguson?

Why is it hard to grasp strong arm robbery is not a capital offense?

Why is it hard to grasp that if the officer had shot Brown during the struggle NOBODY would have a problem with the shooting.

Why is it hard to grasp that Police cannot be allowed to shoot surrendering suspects?

Why is it hard to grasp that its MURDER when police soot and kill a person without justification just like it is when private citizens do it?

It's hard to grasp all of those points because he was charging at the officer, after he punched him and went for his gun at the car. He had more justification for shooting than anyone this side of Zimmerman has. The thug would still be alive if he wasn't a thug.
 
It's hard to grasp all of those points because he was charging at the officer, after he punched him and went for his gun at the car. He had more justification for shooting than anyone this side of Zimmerman has. The thug would still be alive if he wasn't a thug.

According to the witnesses he was not charging the officer. In the Zimmerman case the witnesses saw Trayvon Martin on top of Zimmerman when the shots were fired. Huge difference.
 
Why is it hard to grasp strong arm robbery is not a capital offense?

A strong arm robbery attempt of me or my family is a capital offense and is, likely, to result in capital punishment.
 
I don't like nobody touching my swisher sweets. If I find any of you homos in my swisher sweets, I'll kill ya.
 
Why is it hard to grasp strong arm robbery is not a capital offense?

Why is it hard to grasp that if the officer had shot Brown during the struggle NOBODY would have a problem with the shooting.

Why is it hard to grasp that Police cannot be allowed to shoot surrendering suspects?

Why is it hard to grasp that its MURDER when police soot and kill a person without justification just like it is when private citizens do it?

Let's talk about what we do know. He is a thief and was involved in a strong arm robbery and also decided he had to walk in the street to intimidate others. I am lucky enough to lead a life where I don't associate with these types of people. Therefore I have no tolerance for them. He was a thug and if you think that there was any possibility of him going on to be a productive member of society you're a fool. He put himself in the position that resulted in his death. It doesn't matter whether he was black or white..
There are ******** cops out there just like they are ********* in any profession, but you can't tell me that this guy left the house in the morning looking to kill a black kid.
If he had lived, I can only hope that when he got out of jail he would end up living beside a bleeding heart like you and prey on your neighborhood and friends and family, because I sure as hell don't want that piece of trash living beside me.
Let ******* like you who were afraid to serve justice because they may offend someone feel the ramifications of the society and the justice system that is too soft to hold people responsible for their actions.
 
Let's talk about what we do know. He is a thief and was involved in a strong arm robbery and also decided he had to walk in the street to intimidate others. I am lucky enough to lead a life where I don't associate with these types of people. Therefore I have no tolerance for them. He was a thug and if you think that there was any possibility of him going on to be a productive member of society you're a fool. He put himself in the position that resulted in his death. It doesn't matter whether he was black or white..
There are ******** cops out there just like they are ********* in any profession, but you can't tell me that this guy left the house in the morning looking to kill a black kid.
If he had lived, I can only hope that when he got out of jail he would end up living beside a bleeding heart like you and prey on your neighborhood and friends and family, because I sure as hell don't want that piece of trash living beside me.
Let ******* like you who were afraid to serve justice because they may offend someone feel the ramifications of the society and the justice system that is too soft to hold people responsible for their actions.

DBS isn't a liberal, he just hates cops.
 
Officer Wilson states that he opened fire on Brown because Brown turned and charged at him, all the witnesses say otherwise.

There are conflicting reports on this. I've heard reports that some witnesses have said he walked toward the officer and taunted him. I suspect the grand jury has heard from some witnesses who have not come forward publicly, but I don't know. If he attacked a cop, and then advanced on the cop when told to freeze, the cop acted appropriately. Brown was a huge kid who (according to the officer) had already shown himself to be violent and unpredictable. As a police officer you don't take chances on something like that. 20 feet is not a great distance for somebody to travel.

If he was truly standing still with his hands up he shouldn't have been shot. I highly doubt that is the case.
 
http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/10/ferguson-witness-mike-browns-hands-were-not-raised-when-shot/

A black witness who claims to have seen the killing of Mike Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson “from start to finish” and who also purports to have just completed testifying in front of the Grand Jury, has subsequently been interviewed by the local St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper (on condition of anonymity).

Key facets of his testimony to the grand jury, as he recounts it, include:

Officer Wilson did not fire while Brown was moving away form him, but only when Brown turned back towards him.
Brown motioned with his arms out to his sides, but never raised them high.
Brown continued to advance on Wilson despite repeated orders to stop.
When Wilson fired his last rounds Brown was only ~20 feet away (those of you familiar with the Tueller drill understand the tactical implications of that distance, although this witness almost certainly did not).
Brown’s friend and criminal cohort Dorian Johnson took off running when the first round was fired inside Wilson’s police vehicle (thus casting further doubt on his testimony of later events, as if further doubt was needed).
He saw a struggle inside the patrol car, and saw Wilson’s hat fly off.
A shot was heard, at which point Brown ran, followed by Wilson (thus measurements of Brown’s body from Wilson’s vehicle are not likely representative of the distance between the men when Wilson fired).
Wilson, gun drawn, shouted repeatedly at Brown to stop his flight.
Brown stopped, mumbled something inaudible, and began advancing on Wilson, despite Wilson having his gun in hand.
Wilson again ordered Brown to stop, and fired three shots.
Brown staggered, apparently from being struck by one or more rounds, then continued to advance on Wilson.
Wilson fired four more rounds, the last of which discharged as Brown was falling.

Remarkably, after having provided this testimony, the witness is quoted in the interview as saying “He was already on his way down when he fired those last shots. What transpired to us, in my eyesight, was murder. Down outright murder.”

It is noteworthy that the Grand Jury also heard four hours of testimony from Officer Wilson personally, back on September 9.

Recently the Grand Jury elected to delay a decision on indictment of Wilson for an additional 60 days, beyond the fourth-month period normally provided.

Further, the prosecutor presenting the case to the Grand Jury has essentially simply handed them all available evidence for their perusal, and is making little or no effort to communicate the type of narrative of guilt that generally makes an indictment a foregone conclusion.

[Update (10/17/14): That last paragraph apparently created some confusion. This kind of lackadaisical effort by a prosecutor typically suggests an indictment is unlikely.]
 
Remarkably, after having provided this testimony, the witness is quoted in the interview as saying “He was already on his way down when he fired those last shots. What transpired to us, in my eyesight, was murder. Down outright murder.”

I am not sure why a large percentage of citizens have a view of handguns, their accuracy and their stopping power that is simply dumb. And I mean, completely dumb.

But the fact remains that a significant percentage of citizens believe that you can "wing" a guy from 40' and that will disable him. Those citizens get their information on firearm accuracy and stopping power from Bugs Bunny re-runs, I believe.

They apparently have never tried to hit a moving target with a handgun from 40'. Nor do they have a clue what effect a bullet will have on a person whose body is racing with adrenaline.

Those who say you can "stop shooting" after "x" rounds or after the suspect has been hit "x" times are living in a fantasy land.
 
I am not sure why a large percentage of citizens have a view of handguns, their accuracy and their stopping power that is simply dumb. And I mean, completely dumb.

But the fact remains that a significant percentage of citizens believe that you can "wing" a guy from 40' and that will disable him. Those citizens get their information on firearm accuracy and stopping power from Bugs Bunny re-runs, I believe.

They apparently have never tried to hit a moving target with a handgun from 40'. Nor do they have a clue what effect a bullet will have on a person whose body is racing with adrenaline.

Those who say you can "stop shooting" after "x" rounds or after the suspect has been hit "x" times are living in a fantasy land.

Right. He's 25 feet away and people expect the cop to shoot him, wait to see what happens, shoot him again, wait again...cop could be on the ground with 300 pounds on top of him in that amount of time. That's not how it works. You shoot til he drops. Whether that takes one shot or 20. I've never touched a gun in my life and I understand that.
 
Let's talk about what we do know. He is a thief and was involved in a strong arm robbery and also decided he had to walk in the street to intimidate others. I am lucky enough to lead a life where I don't associate with these types of people. Therefore I have no tolerance for them. He was a thug and if you think that there was any possibility of him going on to be a productive member of society you're a fool. He put himself in the position that resulted in his death. It doesn't matter whether he was black or white..
There are ******** cops out there just like they are ********* in any profession, but you can't tell me that this guy left the house in the morning looking to kill a black kid.
If he had lived, I can only hope that when he got out of jail he would end up living beside a bleeding heart like you and prey on your neighborhood and friends and family, because I sure as hell don't want that piece of trash living beside me.
Let ******* like you who were afraid to serve justice because they may offend someone feel the ramifications of the society and the justice system that is too soft to hold people responsible for their actions.

I am a bleeding heart? Last time I checked I was a Constitutional Conservative. Although I do have a lot of libertarian leanings because you know men who are free should be able to do what they choose so long as it harms no one else. So tell me what justice is served by police officers acting outside of the law? Where is justice served without due process? where in the rule is it allowed for public officials to summarily execute citizens? Let me flip the script on you and have you imagine if a renegade cop decides to shoot you or one of your loved ones for a petty crime.
 
DBS isn't a liberal, he just hates cops.

I'm good friends with some police officers I hate BAD COPS. I am also very concerned with the militant attitude displayed by many police agencies and the creep of police powers beyond what would have been considered lawful at the time of the Founders of this nation.
 
But yet you were saying a few posts ago that you knew for a fact that Wilson touched Brown because his duties require(d) it.

I said no such thing. I said "if" he followed that procedure, which I have no idea if he did.

Let's talk about what we do know. He is a thief and was involved in a strong arm robbery and also decided he had to walk in the street to intimidate others.

We don't know why he was walking in the street. You're assuming it was to "intimidate", but how can you prove that?

I am lucky enough to lead a life where I don't associate with these types of people. Therefore I have no tolerance for them. He was a thug and if you think that there was any possibility of him going on to be a productive member of society you're a fool.

I thought we were discussing what we "know"? You can't prove any of those things. It's your opinion and conjecture.

He put himself in the position that resulted in his death. It doesn't matter whether he was black or white..
There are ******** cops out there just like they are ********* in any profession, but you can't tell me that this guy left the house in the morning looking to kill a black kid.

Irrelevant. Whether or not Ray Rice woke up thinking about knocking out his old lady has nothing to do with whether he did it or not. If the officer killed this man without cause, his opinions about Black people are irrelevant.

If he had lived, I can only hope that when he got out of jail he would end up living beside a bleeding heart like you and prey on your neighborhood and friends and family, because I sure as hell don't want that piece of trash living beside me.
Let ******* like you who were afraid to serve justice because they may offend someone feel the ramifications of the society and the justice system that is too soft to hold people responsible for their actions.

Again, I thought you were discussing "what we know"? None of this is known, it's your decidedly biased world view applied to this case. You've never met this dead young man. You have no idea who he was. Bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Your statement is all ate up with misdirected anger.

http://legalinsurrection.com/2014/10/ferguson-witness-mike-browns-hands-were-not-raised-when-shot/

A black witness who claims to have seen the killing of Mike Brown by Ferguson police officer Darren Wilson “from start to finish” and who also purports to have just completed testifying in front of the Grand Jury, has subsequently been interviewed by the local St. Louis Post-Dispatch newspaper (on condition of anonymity).

I read the original story, and this article. It's just cherry picking. You are clearly in the tank for the officer. If there are 20 witnesses and only one corroborates the officer's story in some way, you seem inclined to believe the one. That shows an outright bias on your part. Also, this "witness" insisted on his anonymity. He could just be some whack job who the grand jury dismissed as not credible. We have no idea.

Much, much more information is needed before any conclusions can be drawn.
 
I am a bleeding heart? Last time I checked I was a Constitutional Conservative. Although I do have a lot of libertarian leanings because you know men who are free should be able to do what they choose so long as it harms no one else. So tell me what justice is served by police officers acting outside of the law? Where is justice served without due process? where in the rule is it allowed for public officials to summarily execute citizens? Let me flip the script on you and have you imagine if a renegade cop decides to shoot you or one of your loved ones for a petty crime.

Last time I checked, assaulting a cop is not a petty crime.
 
I thought we were discussing what we "know"? You can't prove any of those things. It's your opinion and conjecture.

So according to what you just said yourself, it's merely an opinion and we can't "know" or "prove" that he was a thug.....despite the fact that he was just seen on camera, robbing a store and tossing the clerk around. Ok.....what DO we "know" about his character according to you? He was probably doing a community service project in the grocery store to supplement his National Honor Society resume'. He obviously just tripped and fell into the clerk and the impact caused the items to fly through the air and land in his pockets.

This is ridiculous. If he was a white kid and got caught robbing a store, he's a thug, If he was Asian, he's a thug. If he's Hispanic, he's a thug. Turning a blind eye to someone's behavior because it isn't palatable to us, does not help anyone.
 
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Last time I checked, assaulting a cop is not a petty crime.

He wasn't assaulting the cop when he was shot. The cop didn't even know about the strong arm robbery, the initial encounter resulted from what amounts to jaywalking.
 
I am a bleeding heart? Last time I checked I was a Constitutional Conservative. Although I do have a lot of libertarian leanings because you know men who are free should be able to do what they choose so long as it harms no one else. So tell me what justice is served by police officers acting outside of the law? Where is justice served without due process? where in the rule is it allowed for public officials to summarily execute citizens? Let me flip the script on you and have you imagine if a renegade cop decides to shoot you or one of your loved ones for a petty crime.

You have no proof that any of the above took place in this incident. All we do know is the robbery that was on tape. I'm not playing the "what if" game with you.

As for your last point...I'm not a criminal...even petty crimes, so the cops have no reason to **** with me. Ain't it funny how that works?
 
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I said no such thing. I said "if" he followed that procedure, which I have no idea if he did.



We don't know why he was walking in the street. You're assuming it was to "intimidate", but how can you prove that?



I thought we were discussing what we "know"? You can't prove any of those things. It's your opinion and conjecture.



Irrelevant. Whether or not Ray Rice woke up thinking about knocking out his old lady has nothing to do with whether he did it or not. If the officer killed this man without cause, his opinions about Black people are irrelevant.



Again, I thought you were discussing "what we know"? None of this is known, it's your decidedly biased world view applied to this case. You've never met this dead young man. You have no idea who he was. Bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Your statement is all ate up with misdirected anger.



I read the original story, and this article. It's just cherry picking. You are clearly in the tank for the officer. If there are 20 witnesses and only one corroborates the officer's story in some way, you seem inclined to believe the one. That shows an outright bias on your part. Also, this "witness" insisted on his anonymity. He could just be some whack job who the grand jury dismissed as not credible. We have no idea.

Much, much more information is needed before any conclusions can be drawn.

I have drawn no conclusions.I think I've said repeatedly we don't have all the evidence yet.

I think 4, maybe 5 witnesses have come forward publicly. None of their versions are exactly the same. Many of their stories have aspects that defy logic and the physical evidence in one way or another. I tend to think there are many more witnesses we are not aware of, who have not come forward publicly. Certainly if I had information that exonerated Officer Wilson, I wouldn't want to come forward publicly, especially if I was black.

I am not "in the tank" for the police officer. I will admit to a tendency toward giving police officers the benefit of the doubt in situations like this. I've worked with a lot of off duty cops over the years, including a couple of DC cops who worked very bad neighborhoods. I know that the perception that they can't wait to pull out their gun and shoot someone is ridiculous. Most hope and pray never to have to use a weapon, because if they have to use it, chances are they are in a very dangerous situation where their own safety is at high risk.
 
Right. He's 25 feet away and people expect the cop to shoot him, wait to see what happens, shoot him again, wait again...cop could be on the ground with 300 pounds on top of him in that amount of time. That's not how it works. You shoot til he drops. Whether that takes one shot or 20. I've never touched a gun in my life and I understand that.

Exactly. Shoot until the target is dead. Police officer are trained in firearm use for months before joining the force, undergo regular testing and instruction after joining the force, and are taught use-of-force policies, to insure that when they use the gun, they do so under proper circumstances.

That is so important because they are trained to shoot to kill. 5 shots? 10? The answer is, "As many as it takes to kill the target."

That point was debated at great length in the Rodney King trial. The LAPD officers were critical of the female CHP officer who pulled her handgun on King, since at that point, she had one and only one defensive option: shoot to kill.
 
He wasn't assaulting the cop when he was shot. The cop didn't even know about the strong arm robbery, the initial encounter resulted from what amounts to jaywalking.

What difference does it make what started the initial encounter? Are you suggesting Brown was justified in attacking Wilson because he asked him to move out of the street? This is just like the people who say Trayvon Martin was killed for walking home with Skittles. Whatever happened in this case, I will guarantee you that Brown was not "shot for jaywalking". That simply makes no logical sense.

Again, if Wilson's story is accurate, Brown slammed the car door on him, punched him, and was hitting him and grabbing for his gun. He got shot in the car and ran off, but then turned around. We KNOW he turned around because most of the bullets entered the front of his body. The only thing that is in dispute is whether he had his hands up, and whether or not he was advancing toward the officer. If he was advancing toward the officer while the officer yelled STOP!, after just having violently assaulted him, the officer is not only justified, he had NO CHOICE. He could not risk a violent, out of control, irrational 300 pound man overpowering him and getting his gun.
 
I said no such thing. I said "if" he followed that procedure, which I have no idea if he did.



We don't know why he was walking in the street. You're assuming it was to "intimidate", but how can you prove that?

Thugs walk in the street to intimidate and show defiance. Even you are not stupid enough not to know that.

I thought we were discussing what we "know"? You can't prove any of those things. It's your opinion and conjecture.

Yes. I know a waste of oxygen when I see one.



Irrelevant. Whether or not Ray Rice woke up thinking about knocking out his old lady has nothing to do with whether he did it or not. If the officer killed this man without cause, his opinions about Black people are irrelevant.

So you are telling me that this officer was set on killing the first black guy who gave him an opportunity?

Again, I thought you were discussing "what we know"? None of this is known, it's your decidedly biased world view applied to this case. You've never met this dead young man. You have no idea who he was. Bad people do good things and good people do bad things. Your statement is all ate up with misdirected anger.

I've never met him, but I can tell a lot about him and his homeys when they leave bottles of Mad Dog 20/20 at the memorial of this innocent child. The robbery video is all I need to know about him.



I read the original story, and this article. It's just cherry picking. You are clearly in the tank for the officer. If there are 20 witnesses and only one corroborates the officer's story in some way, you seem inclined to believe the one. That shows an outright bias on your part. Also, this "witness" insisted on his anonymity. He could just be some whack job who the grand jury dismissed as not credible. We have no idea.

Much, much more information is needed before any conclusions can be drawn.

................
 
By the way, my anger is not misdirected...it is directed towards those who are purely takers in our society.
 
You have no proof that any of the above took place in this incident. All we do know is the robbery that was on tape. I'm not playing the "what if" game with you.

As for your last point...I'm not a criminal...even petty crimes, so the cops have no reason to **** with me. Ain't it funny how that works?

Actually we do have proof that that stuff happened there are numerous eyewitnesses that saw what happened.

And you should maybe do a little research into police misconduct. There have been numerous cases of police brutality and shootings of innocent civilians based on nothing more than a traffic stop.
 
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