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Florida Valentines Day Shooting

At a news conference Thursday morning, Broward Sheriff Scott Israel said an armed school resource officer was at the school during the shooting but never encountered Cruz.



Seems to me they need a new one
 
Lyn has worked for years in education, Trog. She knows a lot more about the hesitancy of students to speak up regarding potentially dangerous fellow students than do you or I. A LOT MORE.

I presume that even if Lyn had documented those instances, she would be unable to share those records publicly. You know, revealing the names of 11-year olds and all that.

So kids will bully other kids on-line and in person, but they fear ratting out potential school shooters, their own personal safety be damned?

Bullshit!
 
It's the law that they are given the benefit of doubt. As I said, it's illegal to keep a kid out of school for being weird or creepy. They have the same rights as every other student in the school even if the teachers are all scared of them. Until they've violated the rules in a big way they will be in the building. Most of these school shooters are quiet backwards kids who nobody even gave a second thought too. This kid sounds like one of the ones everyone knew was nuts. Hell he was expelled. That's the most drastic thing a school can do.

Yeah it's the law and a freedom to enjoy.

I just think if someone is showing red flags of bottled up hostility they should at least be referred to a psychiatrist.
There's way too many intangibles though that leads to a meltdown.
 
Kids are afraid to speak up when they see something because they don't want to be labeled as racist, homophobic, genderphobic, xenophobic. It's PC gone awry.

I think PC is a portion to blame.
Some kids do grow up needing mental help.

Especially in middle school and high school where life can feel helpless at times.
Idk what to say though really
 
It's starts earlier. How about K-5? My GF is a kindergarten teacher. I hear the stories. One of her students told her he wanted to kill her. I'm a Custodian at the same school. I'm only there 20 minutes before they dismiss and I see some of the behavioral students in actions near our "quiet room". We needed the resource officer to pay a visit TWICE last week for a 5th grader for making threats. I heard a 2nd grader telling his Paraeducator the other day that she was on his hate list. To quote a teacher the other day, "we're spiraling out of control."
 
So kids will bully other kids on-line and in person, but they fear ratting out potential school shooters, their own personal safety be damned?

Bullshit!

While I agree with your premise, there was a problem in this case. Kids saying they knew. They knew he wanted to kill, they knew he would snap, they figured if someone was gonna shoot up the school it would be the kid that did. And yet, no one said anything. No one did anything. I don't know why no one said or did anything, but it contributed to what happened yesterday.
 
STATEMENT FROM PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP


My fellow Americans, today I speak to a nation in grief. Yesterday, a school filled with innocent children and caring teachers became the scene of terrible violence, hatred, and evil.

Around 2:30 yesterday afternoon, police responded to reports of gunfire at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida -- a great and safe community. There, a shooter, who is now in custody, opened fire on defenseless students and teachers. He murdered 17 people and badly wounded at least 14 others.

Our entire nation, with one heavy heart, is praying for the victims and their families. To every parent, teacher, and child who is hurting so badly, we are here for you -- whatever you need, whatever we can do, to ease your pain. We are all joined together as one American family, and your suffering is our burden also.

No child, no teacher, should ever be in danger in an American school. No parent should ever have to fear for their sons and daughters when they kiss them goodbye in the morning.

Each person who was stolen from us yesterday had a full life ahead of them -- a life filled with wondrous beauty and unlimited potential and promise. Each one had dreams to pursue, love to give, and talents to share with the world. And each one had a family to whom they meant everything in the world.

Today, we mourn for all of those who lost their lives. We comfort the grieving and the wounded. And we hurt for the entire community of Parkland, Florida that is now in shock, in pain, and searching for answers.

To law enforcement, first responders, and teachers who responded so bravely in the face of danger: We thank you for your courage. Soon after the shooting, I spoke with Governor Scott to convey our deepest sympathies to the people of Florida and our determination to assist in any way that we can. I also spoke with Florida Attorney General Pam Bondi and Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel.

I'm making plans to visit Parkland to meet with families and local officials, and to continue coordinating the federal response.

In these moments of heartache and darkness, we hold on to God’s word in scripture: “I have heard your prayer and seen your tears. I will heal you.”

We trust in that promise, and we hold fast to our fellow Americans in their time of sorrow.

I want to speak now directly to America’s children, especially those who feel lost, alone, confused or even scared: I want you to know that you are never alone and you never will be. You have people who care about you, who love you, and who will do anything at all to protect you. If you need help, turn to a teacher, a family member, a local police officer, or a faith leader. Answer hate with love; answer cruelty with kindness.

We must also work together to create a culture in our country that embraces the dignity of life, that creates deep and meaningful human connections, and that turns classmates and colleagues into friends and neighbors.

Our administration is working closely with local authorities to investigate the shooting and learn everything we can. We are committed to working with state and local leaders to help secure our schools, and tackle the difficult issue of mental health.

Later this month, I will be meeting with the nation’s governors and attorney generals, where making our schools and our children safer will be our top priority. It is not enough to simply take actions that make us feel like we are making a difference. We must actually make that difference.

In times of tragedy, the bonds that sustain us are those of family, faith, community, and country. These bonds are stronger than the forces of hatred and evil, and these bonds grow even stronger in the hours of our greatest need.

And so always, but especially today, let us hold our loved ones close, let us pray for healing and for peace, and let us come together as one nation to wipe away the tears and strive for a much better tomorrow.

Thank you. And God Bless you all. Thank you very much.


Pretty good. He addresses the real problem: mental illness, and re-assures kids that it's ok to report threats to adults, and talked about added security measures at schools. Very realistic and common sensical. The exact opposite of loony libtards who think that the gun let itself out of the house, flew to the school and shot all those people on it's own. Therefore, the only answer is to defy our second amendment and ban guns. The ****** up kid had nothing to do with it. Morons.
 
And something else. I was watching CNN this morning, and Cuomo and Camerota are going on about how this is all the Republicans fault, Democrats can't do anything because Republicans are in the majority, Republicans are afraid to have the debate blah blah. Here is my question for those two stooges.

Why didn't the Democrats do something when they had SUPER MAJORITIES in both houses not so long ago? School shootings and mass shootings didn't start in 2016. Seems the first was 1998 at Columbine. Didn't stop them from ramming through the atrocity called Obamacare. Yet nothing on gun control.

I'll tell you why neither Republicans or Democrats are interested in doing anything. There is too much money to be raised and too many votes to be garnered by keeping this an ongoing issue. These ********* could solve a litany of problems if they had anything other than political power in mind.
 
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So kids will bully other kids on-line and in person, but they fear ratting out potential school shooters, their own personal safety be damned?

Bullshit!

It's easy to bully from behind a keyboard. As for not speaking up in person, kids ARE afraid of being labeled a snitch. A lot of times, kids think that warning signs like this guy put up are just jokes. They honestly do not think that anything bad will happen- it's an invincibility thing. I do know that IF a student came to me with concerns, I would have to report what I hear. Mandatory reporting. If I do NOT, then I myself am in trouble.

So unless you have worked in schools (I've been at all levels), you can't say what kids will and won't do. The fear of being labeled is real, as is the feeling of invincibility.
 
It's easy to bully from behind a keyboard. As for not speaking up in person, kids ARE afraid of being labeled a snitch. A lot of times, kids think that warning signs like this guy put up are just jokes. They honestly do not think that anything bad will happen- it's an invincibility thing. I do know that IF a student came to me with concerns, I would have to report what I hear. Mandatory reporting. If I do NOT, then I myself am in trouble.

So unless you have worked in schools (I've been at all levels), you can't say what kids will and won't do. The fear of being labeled is real, as is the feeling of invincibility.

But this kid was out of school for over a year.

I'm not a lawyer, but there is a famous example of what is and what is not free speech. One can't yell fire in a crowded theater. That is not free speech. However one can threaten others on social media? Why is this protected free speech?

No responsible gun owner should be allowed to scare anyone with weapons over social media. Perhaps State or Local laws can be created to prevent people from doing this, with a stern warning from the police the first time and an arrest the second time.

It's not a meaningful solution to the problem, but I think it would help a little, and possibly make some of these angry/crazy types change behavior before they snap.

The police need to have a bit more power on these known threats
 
Adults were aware of this kid's problems, he had been expelled and had been receiving mental health treatment.

This kid seems like the poster child for who should not have been allowed to buy a gun. Unfortunately most of these shooters are not. The vast majority have no record of violent tendencies. There is no way to predict which of the millions of weird loners in the world are going to do something like this and which ones won't. We can't round up all the weird loners and lock them up for no reason.

Maybe you could keep them from buying guns but one bomb set off during a football game or pep rally could cause a whole lot of carnage.

I've always found it odd that you have to be buzzed in through two sets of doors to get into our school during the school day, but at dismissal time the doors are all wide open and anyone can walk right in. I would say on any given day half the kids are still inside the building for numerous reasons after dismissal.

Even if they prevented that there are dozens of kids outside on wide open practice fields every day after school it the fall spring.

Come up with a solution and someone can find a way around it. That's just the sad truth.
 
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Stupidity

http://m.tmz.com/#!article/2018/02/15/florida-shooting-round-2-student-joke-airsoft-rifle/

It's almost beyond words ... a freshman at a South Carolina high school posted a photo of himself wearing a mask and holding what looks like an assault rifle with the caption, "Round 2 of Florida tomorrow."

The 9th grader is now in custody after an alarmed parent notified authorities and sent along the Snapchat pic.

Deputies descended on the home of the student, who told them the post was a joke. Law enforcement found the gun -- an airsoft rifle -- and after a search of the home determined the student had no access to firearms.
 
Yeah it's the law and a freedom to enjoy.

I just think if someone is showing red flags of bottled up hostility they should at least be referred to a psychiatrist.
There's way too many intangibles though that leads to a meltdown.

You can REQUEST that the parent refer them to a psychiatrist. You cannot force them to follow the recommendation.....and most times they don't. Even if the parent follows through and they are evaluated and it is decided that they are a threat to themselves or others, they get a 3 day treatment stay in a psych. hospital and then released back to home and school. Once in awhile they will keep them for 4 or 5 days. I've had kids that have been in the psych hospital 6 or 8 times in a year. They are always back at school within a week with a note saying they are good to go!
 
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But this kid was out of school for over a year.

I'm not a lawyer, but there is a famous example of what is and what is not free speech. One can't yell fire in a crowded theater. That is not free speech. However one can threaten others on social media? Why is this protected free speech?

No responsible gun owner should be allowed to scare anyone with weapons over social media. Perhaps State or Local laws can be created to prevent people from doing this, with a stern warning from the police the first time and an arrest the second time.

It's not a meaningful solution to the problem, but I think it would help a little, and possibly make some of these angry/crazy types change behavior before they snap.

The police need to have a bit more power on these known threats

I know he was out of school for that long. That doesn't mean he didn't still talk to students or see them out and about. I'm not saying that the school handled his situation properly. I don't. But just because a student is expelled doesn't mean he won't stop associating with people he went to school with.

I don't know why social media has different parameters. I don't. But what I DO know is what I have seen first hand. And that is that kids are scared. WE might not understand why....WE as adults think that it is stupid for them not to tell....but WE are not teenagers growing up in this society.
 
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I just got this email:

Good afternoon parents,

I wanted to bring to your attention an incident that happened today in the lunch room in which a student with special needs had a behavioral struggle. Trained staff engaged in a crisis prevention institute approved physical restraint to keep the student safe as well as all other students safe. When students saw what was taking place and were unsure of the situation, they immediately went into their school safety training and began evacuating the building. There was never a threat to student or staff safety, nor was a student in possession of a gun. Within a matter of minutes, students and staff were brought back into the building to resume classes as normal.

In a separate incident, thanks to our students following our “see something say something philosophy,” staff was alerted to a student who was in possession of a knife. Administration and SROs quickly responded and took the student into custody. At no time were students ever threatened with the knife.

We understand the accumulation of rumors and the very recent tragedy of a school shooting in Florida has made students, parents and the community feel a sense of unease, concern and worry. While we know parent and student anxiety is high, we assure you we work closely with the Carmel Police Department, as well as our first responders at a county and state level to ensure the safety of all those on our campuses and in our buildings. We continue to make the safety of our students, employees and visitors a top priority.

Counselors and social workers, along with our teachers and Student Resource Officers provide support and care for students who may be feeling fearful or anxious. It’s important to know students have a positive outlet to express these concerns and we ask that we all work together as a community to address these concerns.

I wanted to share with you some of the ways in which we work to ensure a safe learning environment:

When a safety concern arises, our team thoroughly reviews the incident to determine what, if any, adjustments may be needed for the safety of our students and staff. Below I have listed some of the safety measures currently in place at Carmel Clay Schools:

ALL staff in all of our Carmel Clay Schools are trained in safety procedures and protocols on a regular basis
CHS has four Carmel Police Department officers in the building (SROs) during the school day; all elementary and middle schools have assigned SROs
ALL staff and students are familiar with our ALICE training program certification (https://www.alicetraining.com/our-program/alice-training/)
ALL staff and students participate in safety drills and scenario based drills on a monthly basis
Carmel Police Department and Carmel Clay Schools collaborate and review each school's safety plans on a regular basis
All schools have all exterior doors locked during the school day and all individuals that enter the school must be checked in through our school security software, SchoolGate Guardian.
Carmel Clay Schools offers Anonymous Alert, an electronic reporting system located in MyCCS in which students and parents can anonymously report safety concerns.
Thank you,
Tom Harmas
Principal
Carmel High School


Back in 8th grade I brought a ninja throwing star to school. I was showing it to a buddy in class. My art teacher was so pissed that she snatched it out of my hand and chucked it at the wall, and it stuck perfectly. I couldn't do anything but laugh my *** off. She was livid and sent me to the dean, who just said "don't bring it to school anymore." The good old days...

My fidget spinner, for 1 day.

Throwing Star.jpg
 
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You can REQUEST that the parent refer them to a psychiatrist. You cannot force them to follow the recommendation.....and most times they don't. Even if the parent follows through and they are evaluated and it is decided that they are a threat to themselves or others, they get a 3 day treatment stay in a psych. hospital and then released back to home and school. Once in awhile they will keep them for 4 or 5 days. I've had kids that have been in the psych hospital 6 or 8 times in a year. They are always back at school within a week with a note saying they are good to go!

Jeez! Some type of help should be mandatory.
My next door neighbor is bi-polar and she's all sorts of violent when she misses her meds.

Point trying to be made is, when someone is not right in the head they should be treated and deserve help.
I do think kids now are more easily triggered/traumatized these days.

So again from my perspective cause I don't work in a school setting.
You and Steelerlyn have a better understanding on these type of things
 
I know he was out of school for that long. That doesn't mean he didn't still talk to students or see them out and about. I'm not saying that the school handled his situation properly. I don't. But just because a student is expelled doesn't mean he won't stop associating with people he went to school with.

I don't know why social media has different parameters. I don't. But what I DO know is what I have seen first hand. And that is that kids are scared. WE might not understand why....WE as adults think that it is stupid for them not to tell....but WE are not teenagers growing up in this society.

Yeah this society is a lot different.
Like you stated a fear of being labeled a racist, sexist etc.

I think also the street culture of not wanting to be a snitch.
Kids and teens generally remain hush anyways.

Maybe the kid just triggered with no warning signs.
Other than the fact his adopted parents died, which I understand can leave a child angry.

I'm not one to blame video games and movies, music etc.
But the youth today is desensitized to violence in my opinion.
But also at the same time any sane person can differentiate fiction and non fiction.
 
Even without guns, he would have found another way. That said, this **** has to stop. This is insanity. No, the vast, vast majority of gun owning Americans are not mass murderers. But I would love to know how this kid got a ******* AR15, rolled into a school and murdered 17 people. Our government, republicans and democrats, need to start working on a real, viable solution to this stuff. This happens far too often.

I'll take my chances against a kid without a guy than a kid with one. Could you imagine hiding in a classroom and seeing bullets flying through the wall?
 
I just want to know how a kid who was reported to the FBI passed a background check. There seems to be a disconnect with reporting violent behavior (Texas church shooter last year) and blocking these folks from acquiring guns.


It's a tough go with that stuff unless they've been arrested, have some type of protection order or made threats out loud or on social media. I honestly don't know his history. It's hard to take rights away on hearsay. I mean I could call the fbi on anyone and make up some bs about someone being crazy and threatening to shoot people.
 
Maybe the kid just triggered with no warning signs.
There were a lot of warning signs. Big red flashing lights and sirens. No one who knew him was surprised.
 
There were a lot of warning signs. Big red flashing lights and sirens. No one who knew him was surprised.

Oh yeah the kids were scared of him and I guarantee the teachers were scared that the possibility was there too. As I've said, I've had at least one kid per grade in every one of my 14 years in education that I thought had the potential. Sometimes it's more than one kid. I've looked into a kid's eyes before and gotten the creeps because there doesn't seem to be anything there. The lucky instances are when one of those commit a crime outside of school and get sent to a juvenile detention center for the year and you say, "Thank God". Because if they don't do anything like that or a major violent offense in school, you're stuck with them until they graduate or drop out. You can't get rid of them for acting weird.
 
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1. Why is the kid still alive?
2. FBI was alerted last year by a YouTuber - gave his name - they dropped the ball
3. POTUS needs to re-visit this and fix it: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...id=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed
4. Metal detectors at schools and at least one armed guard. Only one way in. All other doors set up for exit only. If you are trying to get in, you HAVE to get past the guard.
 
4. Metal detectors at schools and at least one armed guard. Only one way in. All other doors set up for exit only. If you are trying to get in, you HAVE to get past the guard.

As a school person I agree with this 100%. At the rate these school shootings are going, I think it will be mandatory for schools to have in the future. The problem is that the funding will have to come from the state or federal government. High poverty districts like ours could never afford it. We have almost as many empty offices in the building as occupied offices due to position cut backs over the years.
 
1. Why is the kid still alive?
2. FBI was alerted last year by a YouTuber - gave his name - they dropped the ball
3. POTUS needs to re-visit this and fix it: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trum...id=clicksource_4380645_2_three_posts_card_hed
4. Metal detectors at schools and at least one armed guard. Only one way in. All other doors set up for exit only. If you are trying to get in, you HAVE to get past the guard.

When I started mortuary school I had to go to my old high school for transcripts. I have an MBA but they still wanted my high school grades from 35 years ago, go figure. So I get there and there is a desk with a security guard who I presume is armed, a metal detector, and to get any farther than the lobby you have to be buzzed in. I wonder how the guy in FL got in?
 
This is beyond horrible. I mean, there has to be a solution. Sadly, I don't know what that solution is. I don't know how you stop a madman who is intent on killing. Even without guns, he would have found another way. That said, this **** has to stop. This is insanity. No, the vast, vast majority of gun owning Americans are not mass murderers. But I would love to know how this kid got a ******* AR15, rolled into a school and murdered 17 people. Our government, republicans and democrats, need to start working on a real, viable solution to this stuff. This happens far too often.

7 posts down before the weapon gets mentioned........Repugnicans......

Nothing will be done, NOTHING! And Repugnicans and their gun industry donors are to blame. After the Vegas shooting there was agreement across the aisle that no one needs a bump stock. This type of accessory isn't even protected by the second amendment.....what happened? The NRA told it's Repugnican puppets what they wanted, that's what.

Repugnicans ARE THE SCUM OF THIS EARTH. 58 dead 500 wounded.......no worries, more kids slaughtered this time in Florida.......no worries, just keep the money flowing THIS IS THEIR GOD AND THEIR "MORALITY".

Party of " family values".........what a sick joke.
 
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