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What does Tomlin have to do to actually lose his job?
Here go some of the coaches!
- Thread starter Coryea
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Yep, that person will also not show up the HC.
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Lose? Until he does that consistently he will remain. Period. It is the way. I have spoken.
I thought the defense was pretty good this year until it got decimated decimated by injuries. I thought the DB's got better under Bradley from Lake but that may not be fair because when Lake was here they couldn't draft DB's for **** and more recently realized that and signed proven FA's instead of wasting draft picks.
As I predicted, Fichnter was let go because his contract was up, not solely because he sucked.
I've said in years past that Shades would have to have three consecutive losing seasons before they'd think about not renewing his contract. He could go 0-16 but if he is under contract he will never be fired.
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In Pittsburgh the Head Coach is always the last place the fans and media look. They get de facto contracts for life.
The QB on the other hand..
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This is a somewhat bullshit argument. If the take over the ball, goal to go, then yes. Otherwise they are really only needing to defend 10 yds. There is nothing in the rulebook that says the D must s 40 yds minimum before stopping the other team. The D can get off the field any time they want, all they have to do is stop the other O.
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That's the main problem. The offense is just a collection of plays. The best offenses have core plays that they execute to perfection and the defense must plan to stop. Then there are the wrinkles that work off those plays to create big play opportunities. The steelers are not particularly good at anything.
As for the run game, it's almost as if they looked at power backs like Conner and Snell and said, What's the worst possible plays to run with these guys? What plays can we run that completely highlight their weaknesses and do nothing at all that plays to their strengths? That's the steeler run game.
The TEs are a huge part of the problem too. Ebron is a WR. Unfortunately the steelers seem to think he's a TE and design plays that count on him blocking. It's the equivalent of having Spillane cover Jarvis Landry.
I don't think they can go with a college type coach. Most of those systems rely on RPO and Ben is no run threat.
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Noll did have a coaching tree. Here's a list of his assistants that got head coaching jobs. Some famous names
George Perles - Michigan State coach
Lionel Taylor - Texas Southern
Woddy Widenhofer - USFL Oklahoma Outlaws, Vanderbilt, Missouri
Bud Carson - Browns
Rod Rust - Patriots
Joe Walton - Jets
Tony Dungy - Bucs and Colts
John Fox - Panthers and Broncos
Posted the above for a little clarification. You might expect that level of competence from our regular/starting D. But, a defense that includes a rookie OLB, who is injured and replaced by someone none of us had heard of before 3 weeks ago, a slow ILB, who can hit hard, plays with heart and intelligence, but can't cover, and an undrafted FA rookie CB (in the dime) can't be counted on to provide that competency. They needed the offense to play complementary football, a game of field position without turnovers, the offense (or certain members of it) failed to the tune of 5 turnovers.
So the standard wasn't the standard then? Perhaps they should have had better depth options. I understand Marsh was new but they had plenty of time to evaluate the other two. That is a two people blame share to be clear. Tombert. As you guys debate is good like I have said many of times usually it isn't just the one finger point. In this case both contributed to fail. Offense and defensive failure.
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Not really. That's just more Tomlin bullshit. Your starters are starters for a reason and your backups are backups for a reason.
I dunno, I remember people wanting Cowher fired after two losing seasons and people been calling for MT's head for years. Chuck Noll's last few years too when the only social media was letters to the sports editors in the Post-Gazette and callers to Myron Cope's radio show and Stan 'n Guy on Sportsbeat*
* Great screwups in media history. KBL cancelled Sportsbeat around the beginning of the 2005 football season when the Steelers went on to win the Super Bowl.
This "decimated" defense still had 5 first round picks playing, 3 all pro's, Tuitt with double digit sacks playing against a back up Oline and the Browns missing 2 of their top 4 WR's. I guess unless we have 9 1st rounders we can't expect the defense to do well?
This "decimated" defense did good in week 17 without Watt and Heyward vs this same offense, that's because the defense wasn't called ultra conservative like it always is in big games.
The fact we had a slow ILB playing on this defense keeps getting brought up, that's Tomlins choice to play a guy coming off IR who hasn't played in 6 weeks, Avery Williamson was getting better each week and can move alot better was just sitting on the bench. Then Highsmith gets hurt and we put Marsh in, again we're playing a running team, they have the lead, how about putting a 3rd Dlinemen on the field instead of Marsh? The Browns were running to the opposite side of Watt much of the game, move Watt to ROLB. Hell no, we do what we do and that should be good enough.
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Joe Walton and Rod Rust for sure do not count. As a matter of fact, they were both brought in at the time to change the way the Steelers were doing things.
Certainly Dungy and Perles do count.
When I think coaching tree, I guess I was thinking about a guy like Walsh, who had Holmgren, Andy Reid, Gruden...well known coaches with lots of success.
My point is that I just think it is a useless barometer of whether or not a coach is any good. It's stupid. You don't need to convince me that Tomlin is not getting the job done. All I have to do is turn on the TV. I don't need to be convinced with reaches, and I think coaching tree stuff is a reach.
Well, we all knew Tomlin wasn't going anywhere so I guess dumping Finkner and Sarrett was the next best thing. Hoping for the best in terms of new hires. I don't know what you can do about Tomlin, he is what he is; a good leader who is respected by his players but a pretty incompetent field general who relies on his gut to make in game decisions and whose gut is often wrong.
Except Feiler and Dotson, where the player who showed backup caliber play was immediately inserted back into the starting lineup upon his return from injury and the player who provided above the line participation when called upon to jump on the moving train and put his hand in the pile was relegated to backup status. One of more than a few head scratching decisions in this game.
So, if I'm reading your tone and posts correctly. You believe that the offense's turnovers had minimal impact on the game, the defense should have mitigated all of the offense's mistakes and we would have won the game if they had done so. If I'm reading your tone and posts correctly, the loss is solely on the defense, Ben should be lauded for bringing them close in the second half and his and Pouncey's turnovers were minimal factors.
If you are reading my posts correctly, I'm saying that if you lose the turnover battle by one, maybe two turnovers, you have a chance to win the game. Every turnover after one drastically decreases your chances. Lose the turnover battle by FIVE and you usually aren't winning the game. Now, the defense could have done some things to mitigate some of those turnovers; and they could have forced some turnovers themselves. But, FIVE turnovers man. FIVE ... game over.
No, the offense sucked, I have yet to see anyone saying they didn't.
I'm bringing up the defense because the guy that is supposed to be our leader, our head coach was calling the defense. We still had a ton of talent, playing a Browns team that had a scrub Oline, missing 2 of their 4 top WR's, and we still let got embarrassed. He was out coached/schemed by a team that couldn't meet in person and had 1 practice.
OK, we've been discussing this for the better part of the week. And, I actually appreciate the discussion Coryea. It's good to hear other fan's points of view beyond "Tomlin sucks", "Ben sucks", etc. So, thank you for that.
I really think we're on the same path with this. So, let me state my position a little more directly:
1. Tomlin's decision making for this game was suspect and in some cases, negligent. From starting Feiler over Dotson to the 4th and 1 call, I can find more than a few things I wouldn't have done.
2. Pouncey's snap - Man, that was a tone setter. I had a feeling in my gut about this game from that moment on.
3. Ben's decision making/INTs in the first half was as suspect as Tomlin's decision making. He was not helped by his TE/WRs (drops and tipped pass that became an INT).
4. Fichtner - no more need be said
5. Definitely needed the Defense to step up after the turnovers. They failed.
6. Definitely needed the Defense to provide one more stop after Tomlin chose to punt in the 4th. They failed.
7. Without sugar coating anything, and putting bias to the side, taken as a whole, from the Head Coach, to the stale OC, to the future H.O.F QB, to the disappearing defense and the "Nothing Special" Special Teams, they all failed.
Edit: Even the stadium personnel failed. Was it just me or did anyone else notice that there was a lack of recorded crowd noise, etc? Place was just quiet the whole game.
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Oh yeah great discussion, absolutely.
I guess I just can't get by the fact that it's very obvious Cleveland, as limited as they were in the prep week, made adjustments from week 17 to the playoff game. Then going back to Buffalo, McDermott saying there's alot of adjustments to be made at half time, on the other side Tomlin says we just need to execute. Then everyone said it, that Feiler would start, even though Dotson was our best Olinemen at the end of the season. It's frustrating knowing the guy in charge that's going no where seems to not know what an adjustment is and just stubborn as hell.
Since he's been here, he's always gotten let off the hook here, Ben takes ****, BA, Haley, Fichtner, hell even LeBeau took alot of **** his final year, people bitching that he plays to much zone, then he goes to Tenn and they are one of the top man teams in the NFL, obvious Tomlin has hands in that defense. Baltimore game in 15 or 16, both O's struggling, Baltimore scores a couple times, then finally we go no huddle in the 4th, Ben throws for 200 in the quarter, we lose, after the game Tomlin is asked about why he waited to so long to open the offense up, his response, "both teams were struggling, I was comfortable playing it safe"
Even after it's come out he called the defense vs the Browns, it's everyone else getting **** on.
Captain obvious says - there must be some cultural issue within. lol.
This game mirrored the Jax game - very eerie almost.
As soon a one unit made a mistake, the other had there heads down and played with zero passion and intensity to pick them. They almost failed out of spite?
Perhaps Brown and Bell were not the problem??
Perhaps MT does his pregame motivational cliche rant and the teams just goes ..."here we go again'?
Reading all the posts on coaches - sounds like this staff is an 'old boys' club'. Never good.
Completely agree that the schemes, personnel, match-ups, adjustments (or lack there of), in game decisions, clock management are all ingredients to these meltdown. Just seemed the better we were, the worse we became.
I personally thought through 6-7 games this team was different. Tomlin was coaching smart. O and D complemented each other. Wrong!
How do we as fans become excited again? New head coach? Go 13, 14, 15-0 winning every game by 30? Or until the clock hits 0:00 in the SB with the Steelers up?
lookin forward to the draft.......
This game mirrored the Jax game - very eerie almost.
As soon a one unit made a mistake, the other had there heads down and played with zero passion and intensity to pick them. They almost failed out of spite?
Perhaps Brown and Bell were not the problem??
Perhaps MT does his pregame motivational cliche rant and the teams just goes ..."here we go again'?
Reading all the posts on coaches - sounds like this staff is an 'old boys' club'. Never good.
Completely agree that the schemes, personnel, match-ups, adjustments (or lack there of), in game decisions, clock management are all ingredients to these meltdown. Just seemed the better we were, the worse we became.
I personally thought through 6-7 games this team was different. Tomlin was coaching smart. O and D complemented each other. Wrong!
How do we as fans become excited again? New head coach? Go 13, 14, 15-0 winning every game by 30? Or until the clock hits 0:00 in the SB with the Steelers up?
lookin forward to the draft.......
It's gotten to a point where winning a playoff game would be great.. as pathetic as that is.
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