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Here We Go Again! SWAT called to active shooter inside Boulder, Colorado grocery store.

but they do have a red flag law.
And amazingly, if his brother or wife speak up, none of this happens. I’m not blaming them, but people have to understand their responsibility under the law for a law to actually work.

I know it’s hard when it’s a loved one that’s the subject. I know all about it first hand. But if you love that person, you help them get help. Not to prevent a mass shooting per se, but to help that person find the peace that may just unwittingly prevent a mass shooting.
 
It’s coming out that the suspect in this case has a history of violence. Beat the **** out of people in two separate incidents. One he wasn’t charged, and the other was only a misdemeanor. No background check on the planet is going to flag the guy as a violent criminal when 1) you don’t charge him and 2)when he is actually charged it is a misdemeanor.

Dude’s brother says he has a history of mental illness, if that is actually true. So again, somebody knew he had issues but said nothing. His wife, who I can only assume knew he had issues, saw him playing with a pistol and a “machine gun.” Says nothing. Guy uses said guns to murder 10 people. Color me stunned. Yes, yes. Blame the gun.

What I am certain of is that I do not want the federal government involved in any way. Gun laws are a state issue, based on what the people in that state have expressed to their representatives that they want. The thought of representatives of another state having a say in what I can do in North Carolina is repulsive.

It’s time to start looking at the real culprit. Just about all of these mass shooters are mentally ill in some manner, and a good many of them are on mind altering psychotropic drugs. It is time to stop wasting hundreds of millions of dollars on aid to Latin American countries that are sending their people here and invest that money in fighting the mental health crisis that is destroying this country. If those Latin American countries are sending their people here, what do they need the money for? Answer: they don’t. It’s time to take care of Americans.
this is not the thread to debate this, but I do agree with your statements. Why are we spending $86M on hotels for illegals that are not tested for Covid, no background checks, etc? We have MANY issues here. Homeless, mental illness, unemployment, etc, but nope, lets send Pakistan millions on their gender studies. America first, right?
 
Tibs tried to race bate as usual and it blew up in his face like things so often do. Ya know what Tibs......I've decided that I'm ******* done seeing the vile **** you post. I can't believe what you have devolved into these past few years. It's painful to see but I am no longer going to subject myself your garbage or give you one more second of my time. This is the first time in 20 years that I've used the ignore function. Spread all the hateful **** you want because I no longer have to see it.
 
Tibs tried to race bate as usual and it blew up in his face like things so often do. Ya know what Tibs......I've decided that I'm ******* done seeing the vile **** you post. I can't believe what you have devolved into these past few years. It's painful to see but I am no longer going to subject myself your garbage or give you one more second of my time. This is the first time in 20 years that I've used the ignore function. Spread all the hateful **** you want because I no longer have to see it.
Sorry you feel that way. Strange to see how sensitive conservatives have become w Trump out of office. Also sad you couldn't jump in and add something useful to this thread, discussing the events of the day. Oh well. Enjoy your time sequestered from my terrible, horrible, vile opinions on things. Hopefully you'll come out of your cocoon with a little thicker skin, when it's all said and done.
 
Would welcome any sort of sentiment in this thread that mass shootings like this are unacceptable, regardless of who the perpetrators are, or what type of weapons were used.

Outside of Sarge, haven't seen one inkling of a comment that this is not normal. That this is no way to go through life, living in constant fear, armed to the teeth, hoping for the best, praying it doesn't happen to you or your family.

This is my viewpoint. Given two options - the people don't have guns, only the Government does...OR....we keep it the way it is accepting that some people are going to go on shooting rampages, which you have an utter minuscule chance of being involved in....I'll take the latter.

I've posted the stats before, and I forget the exact number, but in the past 120 years, Governments have killed over 700Million of their own citizens. A large percentage of those killed were in countries where guns had been restricted/eliminated from the citizenry.

I'm far more afraid of my Government taking power and disarming the populace than an armed populace.

I agree with this. But it is time to stop ignoring the unhinged white males amongst us, who seem hellbent on shooting up the rest of society.

We as a society - including responsible gun owners and 2A supporters - should be doing whatever it takes to keep weapons out of the hands of these maniacs and keep our schools, churches, towns and cities safe.

Again you dodge the facts. If you want to discuss gun crime, discuss all gun crime. Stop pointing to mass shootings alone. They are a tiny fraction of a percentage of deaths in this country by gun. Look at all gun violence. When you do, the "unhinged white males among us" falls off the cliff and you need to look elsewhere. This "problem" - the problem being gun violence - isn't the myopic pinpoint of a needle you want to racially focus on.

If you want to eliminate the bulk of non-suicide gun violence, you're going to have to go to the inner cities.

Unless, once again, those deaths don't matter because they don't fit the agenda.
 
I guess I will have to explain it to you people as though you are children.

If guns are illegal, then a person has to COMMIT A CRIME to get a gun. That means he or she would have to break the law, before he or she could again break the law.

Now, we know that people don't like to break the law twice, so honestly, if we make guns illegal, we really don't even NEED laws about shooting people, because it will never happen as the people who break the law to GET the gun won't be able to KILL SOMEBODY cause they'll be in JAIL.

God. You are all SO dense.
 
Thanks for the measured response Tim, appreciate it. You make valid points across the board. And yes, my focus has been on these high-fatality type bloodbaths, and less so on the seemingly endless cases of gun violence that go on daily, weekly, monthly around the country, particularly in urban neighborhoods.

Maybe its the nature of these high profile cases that gets to me, as opposed to the typical shootouts that happen during 'ordinary' street crimes, drug deals gone south, turf battles, etc. The idea of a family visiting their local grocery store being faced with a crazed lunatic walking in, guns blazing. Or a gunman opening fire at a concert, shooting into the crowd randomly. Not to speak of the numerous school shootings that have occurred. The arbitrary nature of these mass shootings just upsets me on a visceral level.

But you are correct, from a bird's eye view, it is just a sliver of the overall gun violence that takes place around the country.

I will refrain from any further posts regarding the ethnicity or race of the perpetrators of these crimes. That does nothing but provoke anger and resentment, where instead, we could have real discussions on these issues. I apologize for my previous posts that focused on race. I should know better, but get caught up in the moment too often.

Appreciate those of you who've engaged on this subject in this thread, I've learned a lot. I don't know what the answers are on how to reduce the high rate of gun violence in the States. I wish I did. Just want everyone to live safe, healthy and happy lives without constantly looking over their shoulders. And that's particularly true for our children and grandchildren. America must be a better and safer place than this, and hopefully it will be some day.
 
this is not the thread to debate this, but I do agree with your statements. Why are we spending $86M on hotels for illegals that are not tested for Covid, no background checks, etc? We have MANY issues here. Homeless, mental illness, unemployment, etc, but nope, lets send Pakistan millions on their gender studies. America first, right?
How we handle the aforementioned people depends on their probability of voting Democrat.
 
I guess I will have to explain it to you people as though you are children.

If guns are illegal, then a person has to COMMIT A CRIME to get a gun. That means he or she would have to break the law, before he or she could again break the law.

Now, we know that people don't like to break the law twice, so honestly, if we make guns illegal, we really don't even NEED laws about shooting people, because it will never happen as the people who break the law to GET the gun won't be able to KILL SOMEBODY cause they'll be in JAIL.

God. You are all SO dense.
What will the Libs do when they find out that stricter gun laws are racist when they ensnare a disproportionate number of People Of Color???
 
How we handle the aforementioned people depends on their probability of voting Democrat.
Problem is they keep sending them to our states while they, the dims, let their own citizens sleep in tents.
 
See if we only waited Tibs this thread title could have been people of peace 100000000000000 thread. But it didn’t.
 
I agree with this. But it is time to stop ignoring the unhinged white males amongst us, who seem hellbent on shooting up the rest of society. ... The fact remains, a large majority of high-casualty, mass murders happen to be committed by white men. Just calling a spade a spade.

*sigh*

Two points:
  • Who exactly is "ignoring" unhinged males - of any color - bent on murdering people? Seriously, you act as if there is some sort of nutjob drive-through where potential mass murderers get advice on how to kill and we simply walk past, not bothering to check what the hell is going on.
  • Second, no you are demonstrably wrong in claiming that mass shootings are a "white man problem." In fact, where four or more are killed in a single shooting - the definition of a "mass shooting" - the majority of time the shooters are black ... despite the population difference.
Around the same time that the media was focused on the mass shootings in El Paso and Dayton, 60 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend. 24 of those people were shot in four hours.

Baltimore reached its 200th murder victim of the year during its “Ceasefire Weekend”.

4 people were killed in 4 days in Kansas City. 6 men were shot in Philly during the filming of a rap video.

Even in Toronto, 15 people were wounded in shootings over the weekend. Over 350 people have been shot this year in the Canadian city which has gun control, no NRA, and none of the usual excuses.

This tide of violence has received less media coverage because it challenges the false claim that, as a CNN op-ed once put it, mass shootings are a “white man’s problem.”

"I would say our country should be more fearful of white men across our country because they are actually causing most of the deaths within this country," Rep. Ilhan Omar claimed on Al Jazeera.

"We have to stop demonizing people and realize the biggest terror threat in this country is white men," Don Lemon had previously claimed on CNN.

"White Men Have Committed More Mass Shootings Than Any Other Group," Newsweek had argued.

The perception that mass shootings are a “white man’s problem” lingers around the country because white mass shooters tend to get more publicity. And, the twisted young male who goes on a public shooting spree fits a certain kind of media narrative. But when we actually study the mass shootings that took place in 2019, it’s clear that Patrick Crusius and Connor Betts are not the norm, but aberrations.

Mass shooters have no particular ideology. Crusius and Betts were opposites ideologically. (Though both cared deeply about the environment.) Nor are mass shooters a white problem or a black problem. Over the same bloody weekend, William Patrick Williams, who is African-American, appeared in court after being arrested by the FBI for planning to shoot up a Texas hotel with an AK-47 rifle.

Looking at the data from the Mass Shooting Tracker, widely utilized by the media, as of this writing, of the 72 mass shooters, perpetrators in shootings that killed or wounded 4 or more people, whose race is known, 21 were white, 37 were black, 8 were Latino, and 6 were members of other groups.

51% of mass shooters in 2019 were black, 29% were white, and 11% were Latino.

Three mass shooters were Asian, two were American Indian and one was Arab.

These numbers are if anything vastly understated. As many as half of the mass shootings that took place in 2019 thus far remain unsolved, but they often took place in black areas and claimed black victims.


White people make up 61% of the country’s population, followed by Hispanics at 17.8%, and African-Americans at 12.7%. In that context, white people are actually dramatically underrepresented among mass shooters, as are Latinos, while African-Americans are highly overrepresented. But that may be because Latino gangs, like MS-13, are less likely to use handguns in public shootouts. And white organized crime groups, like the mafia, no longer carry out attacks like the St. Valentine’s Day Massacre.


I don't know why you are so obsessed with this racial bent and so ill-informed. I suspect it is because white shooters get caught more often and get a lot more publicity.

I would agree that basically ignoring the mass shootings in black neighborhoods is a national embarrassment. Please stop repeating a blatant lie about what is going on.
 
this is not the thread to debate this, but I do agree with your statements. Why are we spending $86M on hotels for illegals that are not tested for Covid, no background checks, etc? We have MANY issues here. Homeless, mental illness, unemployment, etc, but nope, lets send Pakistan millions on their gender studies. America first, right?
Yeah I know. Just pointing out where money could be better spent. Didn’t mean to go so far off topic.
 
Speaking of getting off topic, when I mentioned on FB that my neighbor had his CCW, a high school acquaintance responded with, "My personal opinion is that any civilian who routinely carries a gun, openly or not, is a bit of a nutcase. Not mentally ill, but antisocial."

I thanked him for his opinion, and said that he was painting with a pretty broad brush. No further response, but others replied they carried and were neither mentally ill or antisocial, his response to them was, "I'm sorry to hear that."
 
Speaking of getting off topic, when I mentioned on FB that my neighbor had his CCW, a high school acquaintance responded with, "My personal opinion is that any civilian who routinely carries a gun, openly or not, is a bit of a nutcase. Not mentally ill, but antisocial."

I thanked him for his opinion, and said that he was painting with a pretty broad brush. No further response, but others replied they carried and were neither mentally ill or antisocial, his response to them was, "I'm sorry to hear that."

You know what they say ... opinions like the one you cited come from ********.

I may have paraphrased a bit.
 
I carry everywhere. I carried in the DMV this morning. I carried to lunch. I carried on my ride home from Greenville. I am neither a nutcase nor anti-social. I am, however, prepared.
 
I carry everywhere. I carried in the DMV this morning. I carried to lunch. I carried on my ride home from Greenville. I am neither a nutcase nor anti-social. I am, however, prepared.
I wish every citizen was prepared and carried. IMO, There would not be as many victims.
 
Thanks for the measured response Tim, appreciate it. You make valid points across the board. And yes, my focus has been on these high-fatality type bloodbaths, and less so on the seemingly endless cases of gun violence that go on daily, weekly, monthly around the country, particularly in urban neighborhoods.

Maybe its the nature of these high profile cases that gets to me, as opposed to the typical shootouts that happen during 'ordinary' street crimes, drug deals gone south, turf battles, etc. The idea of a family visiting their local grocery store being faced with a crazed lunatic walking in, guns blazing. Or a gunman opening fire at a concert, shooting into the crowd randomly. Not to speak of the numerous school shootings that have occurred. The arbitrary nature of these mass shootings just upsets me on a visceral level.

But you are correct, from a bird's eye view, it is just a sliver of the overall gun violence that takes place around the country.

I will refrain from any further posts regarding the ethnicity or race of the perpetrators of these crimes. That does nothing but provoke anger and resentment, where instead, we could have real discussions on these issues. I apologize for my previous posts that focused on race. I should know better, but get caught up in the moment too often.

Appreciate those of you who've engaged on this subject in this thread, I've learned a lot. I don't know what the answers are on how to reduce the high rate of gun violence in the States. I wish I did. Just want everyone to live safe, healthy and happy lives without constantly looking over their shoulders. And that's particularly true for our children and grandchildren. America must be a better and safer place than this, and hopefully it will be some day.

Interesting Tibs. I look forward to where this goes.

I would ask you to consider that all, people in all times, have demonstrated evils towards others. This is not to excuse or accept the realities of human nature, but to say clearly that these evils are not going away anytime soon. The issue is to mitigate the evils as much as we can. That is the purpose of civilization.

At no time can we expect to completely get rid of all these evils. So, where do we draw the line? That is for each of us to find out for ourselves. But, the crazy thing about taking measures to stop evils of any type is that the actions can at times be evil in themselves. For example, the only way to guarantee that no one hurts anyone else, we must lock everyone up by themselves. Sounds nuts, I know, but this is the reality of laws. If we outlaw all guns, we limit the citizen to a point that is not really reflective of the right to self protection from bad guys or evil government. Even if we do outlaw guns, we have the reality that hammers and baseball bats kill, too. Do we out law them? What would be next? Soon, everything would be out lawed.

So, while the politicians pontificate over guns, we need to rest assured that these God-given rights are upheld. I hate gun violence. I also hate hammer violence. But, even more egregious to me is the idea that someday a guy will come to my door with a gun an threaten my family, while I no longer have mine, because some enlightened politician took them away. Only good guys will follow the gun laws. The bad guys won't. Those same bad guys who will come to my door to harm my family.

So, I look forward to the new, more thoughtful Tibs. One who sees all people in the similar bind of being in a world of fallen people. Not the Tibs who sees the evils of conservatives as the root of all evil.
 
The victims didn’t even really need to be armed. They just needed some bacon.
 
Thanks for the measured response Tim, appreciate it. You make valid points across the board. And yes, my focus has been on these high-fatality type bloodbaths, and less so on the seemingly endless cases of gun violence that go on daily, weekly, monthly around the country, particularly in urban neighborhoods.

Maybe its the nature of these high profile cases that gets to me, as opposed to the typical shootouts that happen during 'ordinary' street crimes, drug deals gone south, turf battles, etc. The idea of a family visiting their local grocery store being faced with a crazed lunatic walking in, guns blazing. Or a gunman opening fire at a concert, shooting into the crowd randomly. Not to speak of the numerous school shootings that have occurred. The arbitrary nature of these mass shootings just upsets me on a visceral level.

But you are correct, from a bird's eye view, it is just a sliver of the overall gun violence that takes place around the country.

I will refrain from any further posts regarding the ethnicity or race of the perpetrators of these crimes. That does nothing but provoke anger and resentment, where instead, we could have real discussions on these issues. I apologize for my previous posts that focused on race. I should know better, but get caught up in the moment too often.

Appreciate those of you who've engaged on this subject in this thread, I've learned a lot. I don't know what the answers are on how to reduce the high rate of gun violence in the States. I wish I did. Just want everyone to live safe, healthy and happy lives without constantly looking over their shoulders. And that's particularly true for our children and grandchildren. America must be a better and safer place than this, and hopefully it will be some day.
Wait...did Tibs suddenly become sober? Wow...an actual well thought out post with humility and accountability. Someone screen scrape this...it needs to go into the annals of the Steelernation archives.
 
I carry everywhere. I carried in the DMV this morning. I carried to lunch. I carried on my ride home from Greenville. I am neither a nutcase nor anti-social. I am, however, prepared.
Same here. Since I coach High School Athletics the only place I don't carry is in the school. In PA I have to unload the firearm before entering school grounds which means removing the chambered round and the magazine, locking up the firearm in my portable safe, and then storing the magazine and rounds away from the firearm. It's a pain, but that's what LAW ABIDING citizens do.
 
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