How's that wall coming along?......BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Tibs]

The citizenship question has not appeared on the census since 1950.

How ironic, that's exactly where Trump and his cabinet are taking the country, back to the 1950's.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

How ironic, that's exactly where Trump and his cabinet are taking the country, back to the 1950's.

In most respects it was a better place then. I'm okay with it. The average person could have a decent-paying job and very often belong to a union.

 

[Coach]

Millions of illegal votes indy? Hilarious. There is very little evidence of widespread voter fraud. You strike me as someone who enjoys Infowars? If you are hearing this, you are the resistance! ������

Voter fraud has not been investigated beyond pointing out a few examples. Fraud can come from many sources.

1 ) Illegal citizens voting
2 ) Citizens who did not register to vote but did.
3 ) Citizens who voted more than once under different names.
4 ) Citizens who used a deceased person's registration.

Let's say its about 1% of the vote is fraud. Isn't that enough to swing some state elections for the house or senate? I think so not to mention local city/county elections.

IMO, producing a form of governmental ids, such as an ID card or driver's license that matches your current legal address sounds fair if you want to avoid fraud.

 

[deljzc]

Everyone with a brain that listened to "Mexico will pay for the wall" understood it to mean they will pay either through new tariffs, taxes or changes to NAFTA.

The NAFTA renegotiation is still going on. I think the tax on remittances (now almost $69 billion/year now see https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsa...the-u-s-are-sending-home-more-money-than-ever) will happen AFTER the NAFTA renegotiation. And we are now seeing Trump start to use tariffs as a foreign relation tool, so I suspect there could be something along these lines as well.

Let it play out. See what our import/export trade deficit with Mexico does over the next 4 years. We already know there are less illegals here in the U.S. now under Trump (deportations are up, illegal attempts to cross into the U.S. are down). That equates to money as well (the U.S. is spending less on illegals and Mexico is spending more on their citizens).

All factors you could "argue" go into the equation for who is "paying for the wall".

Trump is the first candidate/President to care about this in a long time. To me he has accomplished more than I had hoped for in his first 15 months. So I'm giving him the leeway to build the wall with tax money understanding completely that he is winning the war of illegal immigration and remittances with Mexico already.

 

[Tibs]

In most respects it was a better place then. I'm okay with it. The average person could have a decent-paying job and very often belong to a union.

Particularly if you were a white, Christian male. Things were dandy for you back in the 50's, no doubt.

 

[DBS1970]

And there would be full employment in the agriculture sector with no immigrant workers?

They managed 35 years ago before the first amnesty Reagan was duped into.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

So, it’s worth 25 billion to stop 10-15% of illegal immigration? I don’t see the ROI there...

You are kidding, correct?

https://www.fairus.org/issue/public...n-illegal-immigration-united-states-taxpayers

At the federal, state, and local levels, taxpayers shell out approximately $134.9 billion to cover the costs incurred by the presence of more than 12.5 million illegal aliens, and about 4.2 million citizen children of illegal aliens. That amounts to a tax burden of approximately $8,075 per illegal alien family member and a total of $115,894,597,664. The total cost of illegal immigration to U.S. taxpayers is both staggering and crippling. In 2013, FAIR estimated the total cost to be approximately $113 billion. So, in under four years, the cost has risen nearly $3 billion.

Seems a 25 Billion dollar wall to make a large dent in $116Billion is reasonable.

 

[Steeltime]

 

[Spike]

Build it and they won't come!

hahahahahahaha



President Trump tweeted Wednesday touting what he characterized as "the start" of his long proposed wall along the U.S.-Mexico border.

Great briefing this afternoon on the start of our Southern Border WALL!

 

[3 Hypocycloids]

Tim, the info you posted from FairUS is from a source that is solely focused on opposing illegal immigrants.

If I posted articles from left leaning publications, would you put stock in them?

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Tim, the info you posted from FairUS is from a source that is solely focused on opposing illegal immigrants.

If I posted articles from left leaning publications, would you put stock in them?

REFUTE the numbers. I beg you. So typically Liberal: refute the source and avoid discussing the data. Their 2017 report is listed as one of the most comprehensive reports studying the costs of illegal immigration in US History. So instead of saying "I don't like who's mouth it comes from" how about refuting the numbers? Not some blogger. A research STUDY that suggests otherwise.

Secondarily, do you seriously subscribe to the notion that illegal immigrants don't cost us dearly? I mean come on man...

This article and separate study suggests it costs much more than $113Billion.

Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $750 billion over lifetime: Report

Steven A. Camarota, research director at the Center for Immigration Studies, crunched the numbers and found that the current population of illegal immigrants will drain nearly $750 billion from taxpayers over their lifetimes — amounting to six times the deportation costs.

The Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration

The findings of this analysis show that if a border wall stopped a small fraction of the illegal immigrants who are expected to come in the next decade, the fiscal savings from having fewer illegal immigrants in the country would be sufficient to cover the costs of the wall. This analysis takes the likely education level of illegal border-crossers and applies fiscal estimates developed by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine (NAS) for immigrants by education level. NAS calculates the future fiscal balance immigrants create — taxes paid minus costs. NAS reports fiscal balances as "net present values", which places a lower value on future expenditures than on current expenditures.

Based on the NAS data, illegal border-crossers create an average fiscal burden of approximately $74,722 during their lifetimes, excluding any costs for their U.S.-born children. If a border wall stopped between 160,000 and 200,000 illegal crossers — 9 to 12 percent of those expected to successfully cross in the next decade — the fiscal savings would equal the $12 to $15 billion cost of the wall.1

There are 11 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the US (look it up, those are the ranges). Multiply that by $74,722 a head.

Arizona state treasurer Dean Martin says his state loses between $1.3 billion and $2.5 billion each year on illegal immigrants.

That's just one state.

I could go on.

Illegal immigration costs us Billions. FAR more than the cost of a wall.

Oh, it's incredibly worth the investment.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

Funny that Libs support illegal immigrant labor being taken advantage of and working for less than min wage and avoiding fair labor and workplace safety laws.
Anything to get votes, huh?

 

[3 Hypocycloids]

Funny that Libs support illegal immigrant labor being taken advantage of and working for less than min wage and avoiding fair labor and workplace safety laws.
Anything to get votes, huh?

I don’t support a minimum wage, or a living wage. That just drives up costs. You want to make more money, get an education. You didn’t get an education, learn a trade. You didn’t do either, tough tittie, make due.

I support people who work hard, provide a good service at a reasonable price. If my American landscaper had been better at his job, I would being using the other guy. Typical American laziness, and we want to blame the people who work harder?

 

[3 Hypocycloids]

REFUTE the numbers. I beg you. So typically Liberal: refute the source and avoid discussing the data. Their 2017 report is listed as one of the most comprehensive reports studying the costs of illegal immigration in US History. So instead of saying "I don't like who's mouth it comes from" how about refuting the numbers? Not some blogger. A research STUDY that suggests otherwise.

Secondarily, do you seriously subscribe to the notion that illegal immigrants don't cost us dearly? I mean come on man...

This article and separate study suggests it costs much more than $113Billion.

Illegal immigrants cost taxpayers nearly $750 billion over lifetime: Report





The Cost of a Border Wall vs. the Cost of Illegal Immigration



There are 11 million to 12 million illegal aliens in the US (look it up, those are the ranges). Multiply that by $74,722 a head.



That's just one state.

I could go on.

Illegal immigration costs us Billions. FAR more than the cost of a wall.

Oh, it's incredibly worth the investment.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mmigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf

From what I’m reading, non partisan sites including the CBO, the net costs are modest and there are net gains from future generations.

 

[Ron Burgundy]

I don’t support a minimum wage, or a living wage. That just drives up costs. You want to make more money, get an education. You didn’t get an education, learn a trade. You didn’t do either, tough tittie, make due.

Quit being racist. A lot of people can't make it due to centuries of slavery and oppression so the government has to take from those who have more and give to those who have less, in exchange for vites of course. (BTW, that was sarcasm)

 

[3 Hypocycloids]

Yeah. Like I said, I worked for 15 years as a child and family counselor working with poor people. They are poor because they had bad circumstances (true) but also because they made (and continue to make) bad choices and have the values of poor people. Lazy, unmotivated, spending money on **** you shouldn’t spend money on.

Example, My wife and her brother grew up in a trailer park in Alabama. Their parents were working poor, With what I consider lower class values. When my wife was 16 her mother was arrested for stealing prescription pads from her doctor/co worker (she was a nurse). My wife had friends’ parents who were middle class and they encouraged her to apply to college. She did. She got in to The University of Alabama, worked as an RA, and work study program. She finished school and got a Masters Degree a few years after we married. She is very successful, despite her circumstances.

Her brother did not go to college. He started working at a sprint store, as a cell phone technician. He worked hard and ******* grinded for it, despite having 2 kids by the time he was 24 and no college I education. He kept getting himself promoted at Nextel, then eventually at another major cell phone carrier. Now he is a Regional Director for said company, one of 8. He makes upwards of $150k a year. Why, because he worked hard for it.

That’s why I don’t fault illegal immigrants. I see them come here and bust their ***** for everything they have. They can’t come here and skate by. That’s what poor Americans do, and then complain and say “whoa is me”... that is my paradigm.

 

[oneforthebus]

Yeah. Like I said, I worked for 15 years as a child and family counselor working with poor people. They are poor because they had bad circumstances (true) but also because they made (and continue to make) bad choices and have the values of poor people. Lazy, unmotivated, spending money on **** you shouldn’t spend money on.

Example, My wife and her brother grew up in a trailer park in Alabama. Their parents were working poor, With what I consider lower class values. When my wife was 16 her mother was arrested for stealing prescription pads from her doctor/co worker (she was a nurse). My wife had friends’ parents who were middle class and they encouraged her to apply to college. She did. She got in to The University of Alabama, worked as an RA, and work study program. She finished school and got a Masters Degree a few years after we married. She is very successful, despite her circumstances.

Her brother did not go to college. He started working at a sprint store, as a cell phone technician. He worked hard and ******* grinded for it, despite having 2 kids by the time he was 24 and no college I education. He kept getting himself promoted at Nextel, then eventually at another major cell phone carrier. Now he is a Regional Director for said company, one of 8. He makes upwards of $150k a year. Why, because he worked hard for it.

That’s why I don’t fault illegal immigrants. I see them come here and bust their ***** for everything they have. They can’t come here and skate by. That’s what poor Americans do, and then complain and say “whoa is me”... that is my paradigm.

There are plenty of illegal immigrants who come here and skate by, or worse, are engaged in criminal enterprises just FYI. There are plenty who work hard too, but not all of them do.

 

[3 Hypocycloids]

There are plenty of illegal immigrants who come here and skate by, or worse, are engaged in criminal enterprises just FYI. There are plenty who work hard too, but not all of them do.

No doubt some do, but I’d say that is not representative of the overwhelming majority.

Like I said in an earlier post, let’s start putting bullets in all these raping, murdering *****, American, Mexican, whatever. Public executions televised via pay per view. We can save ourselves the burden of deporting people or housing them in prison for life.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...mmigration-policy-impose-300-billion-annuall/

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/110th-congress-2007-2008/reports/12-6-immigration.pdf

From what I’m reading, non partisan sites including the CBO, the net costs are modest and there are net gains from future generations.

First your Liberal sources, have a goal to try to make the impact of illegal immigration positive or small. That's a fact. Just like you say FAIR's is to elevate the impact. So let's go middle ground.

As a good friend of mine once said, the truth always lies in between the facts you've collected and it's rarely the extremes.

You said "from what I'm reading." I mean no offense but I don't think you are reading what you're posting. From your Politifact article - a blog really (I asked you not to post blogs since I posted a study) - They estimate the range of impact to be between $43Billion and $279Billion. Hmmm, even Politifact says the cost of illegal immigration in a worst case scenario could be $279Billion (twice FAIR's estimate) or as low as $43Billion (still twice the ONE TIME cost of the wall).

Interesting.

The Center for Immigration studies suggests $750Billion over a lifetime is the cost.

The fiscal estimates developed by the National Academies of Sciences, Engineering, and Medicine (NAS) estimate $75,000 per illegal alien is what it costs us.

Find the middle ground to your numbers, FAIR's numbers, our Government's numbers.

And continue to tell me there is no ROI for a $25Billion wall LOL

BTW your CBO article is 11 years old.

 

[Steeltime]

From what I’m reading, non partisan sites including the CBO, the net costs are modest and there are net gains from future generations.

So let me ask you what I ask all who claim that the cost of the illegals flooding into the United States are an economic boon to the U.S. ...

Why is Mexico so adamantly opposed to the wall? WHY WOULDN'T MEXICO BUILD THE ******* WALL ITSELF??

Go ahead. I'll wait.

 

[MT~Forged]

I can’t speak to the quality of illegals today, but I knew a fair number when we lived in S Cal in the 80’s. Of the numbers I knew, maybe 10% were takers. Hell, the Americans I know have a higher percentage, by far than that. I have been to Nicaragua, Guatemala, Mexico, Columbia, Brazil, Vietnam, Thailand,and Kenya. I completely understand why they are willing to risk everything to come here, legal or not. I am more than willing to let EVERYONE who wants to come here in, provided they are self supporting. I feel the same way about the people who are currently citizens.

 

[deljzc]

I'm not about to go moralizing on the work ethic of illegal aliens. They work hard. And most stay out of trouble.

But all that said, I am an ardent supporter of stronger immigration laws. It is ludicrous to me that anyone defends an illegal that takes the easy way into the country vs. those that do the right thing and apply through the legal immigration process. It's just not fair and I am not going to defend it. Every illegal I meet, I think "do you know you are taking the spot of someone trying to do the right thing"?

Trump's policy on illegals will work to HELP Mexico. Because we will eventually run short on the very labor we are hoping to improve. And Mexicans will reap the benefit of that policy. Those that choose to do the right thing, apply for visas, apply for work permits... they will make more money, they will improve their lives better and the work will still be there.

I am not against immigration or Mexicans. I am just against the logic doing it "under the table" helps anyone or is fair to American workers or honest Mexican workers or just morally correct. It's not.

 

[RollRed]

In most respects it was a better place then. I'm okay with it. The average person could have a decent-paying job and very often belong to a union.

As long as you were a white man.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Illegal aliens are hard working, law abiding people and Americans are lazy, ok?

 

[oneforthebus]

The problem with all of the hard-working, otherwise law abiding people who come here illegally is all of the ones who aren't either of those things who come in right along with them. We can't track them so we don't know who they are, why they're here, or what their backgrounds are. If you don't enforce immigration laws, you don't have immigration laws.

It baffles me that this is even controversial.