I think I should explain WHY I'm a Civil Libertarian

[Rod Farva]

It sounds good. If only it were true. Conservatism is inherently authoritarian. They love ramming their religion and "family values" down everybody else's throat. It is conservatives that wanted alcohol and later drug prohibition. It is conservatives who creates the vice laws and conservatives who are trying to define what a marriage is for other people. It is an ideology of control. Yes the nanny state liberals have helped them right along by creating a beurocracy to manage every aspect of our lives. But conservatives are at the heart of social crime legislation. The "moral majority" needs to GTFO of everybody's business.

Sounds to me like your opinion of conservatives. And it is vastly different from mine.

Also, I don't buy into the states rights bullshit either. Yeah, ya kind of have to since it's all in that Constitution thingy.State laws or local laws designed to regulate personal decisions are just as odious as federal ones. In fact, most drug gun and marriage laws are state and local ordinances. Big intrusive government doesn't suddenly become ok because your state enacted it instead of Congress.

Nothing could be further from the truth... In fact, it's the illegality of drugs that make the world much more dangerous than it would be otherwise. If drugs could be legally produced and sold, the black market that currently dictates the price and availability of these drugs would be eradicated also most overnight. The enormous cash flow currently making the criminals controlling the drug trade would be completely cut off. .

Uh huh.....

http://marijuana.com/news/2014/09/40-of-colorados-weed-is-sold-on-the-black-market/

According to CNN.com, the state has already missed out on an estimated $21.5 million in marijuana tax dollars because people–both citizens and tourists–continue to buy cheaper, “illegal” marijuana through alternative channels.

Naturally, supply and demand in Colorado have both never been higher and home growers remain flush with pot. Thus, when faced with the opportunity to buy an ounce from a friend for say, $150 versus an ounce from a dispensary for $250, any reasonable person will gladly save that extra $100 and opt for the cheaper, underground purchase

 

[RollRedRoll]

You sell that crap to someone else. It's bullshit. I stand by what i said. I don't want a bunch of drugged up losers around me in the open. I know damn well what would go down if we had hardcore drugs legal all over. Don't give that crime bullshit. I see what meth does to people and crack..it's ******* poison and the people who sell it are pond scum.

Considering cigarettes and booze kill more people in a year than all the street drugs combined do in 50, based on your reasons for wanting to keep drugs illegal.. ie the harm they do to society... you must want to see those things outlawed too. Lack of exercise is also reported to be a major contributor to disease and premature death, so maybe an hour of exercise a day should be mandated. Fast food should be outlawed also I guess. Before you go on s tirade accusing me of comparing Big Macs to heroin, let me save you the trouble. My point is that when you start criminalizing behavior just because it's bad for you, where do you draw the line?

 

[Confluence]

Uh huh.....

http://marijuana.com/news/2014/09/40-of-colorados-weed-is-sold-on-the-black-market/

According to CNN.com, the state has already missed out on an estimated $21.5 million in marijuana tax dollars because people–both citizens and tourists–continue to buy cheaper, “illegal” marijuana through alternative channels.

Naturally, supply and demand in Colorado have both never been higher and home growers remain flush with pot. Thus, when faced with the opportunity to buy an ounce from a friend for say, $150 versus an ounce from a dispensary for $250, any reasonable person will gladly save that extra $100 and opt for the cheaper, underground purchase

Ironically, the legalization of rec weed, with a 25% tax, has led to greatly increased state revenues.....and the return of the black market because of the price spread. This black market is not entirely met by the home grower. In fact, cartel action in Colorado has been increasing because of the high taxation. Demand plus high taxes = black market.

 

[RollRedRoll]

You sell that crap to someone else. It's bullshit. I stand by what i said. I don't want a bunch of drugged up losers around me in the open. I know damn well what would go down if we had hardcore drugs legal all over. Don't give that crime bullshit. I see what meth does to people and crack..it's ******* poison and the people who sell it are pond scum.

If all drug dealers are pond scum, do you put the shareholders of Anheiser-Busch or Phillip Morris in the same category ? There doing the exact same thing... selling a drug to addicts. You don't really believe these companies became Fortune 500 companies because of the guys that drink 2 or 3 beers on the weekend or smoke 1 or 2 cigs a day? The 12 pack a day drinker and the 2 pack a day smoker are the people making these guys rich... people that are addicted to the products they sell.

 

[Troglodyte]

You sell that crap to someone else. It's bullshit. I stand by what i said. I don't want a bunch of drugged up losers around me in the open. I know damn well what would go down if we had hardcore drugs legal all over. Don't give that crime bullshit. I see what meth does to people and crack..it's ******* poison and the people who sell it are pond scum.

So if drugs were legal you would do them? Or are you saying that only OTHERS who don't do drugs now would do them if they were legal?

 

[Confluence]

If all drug dealers are pond scum, do you put the shareholders of Anheiser-Busch or Phillip Morris in the same category ? There doing the exact same thing... selling a drug to addicts. You don't really believe these companies became Fortune 500 companies because of the guys that drink 2 or 3 beers on the weekend or smoke 1 or 2 cigs a day? The 12 pack a day drinker and the 2 pack a day smoker are the people making these guys rich... people that are addicted to the products they sell.

Exactly.



Steelr4evr:

What if the DEA and FDA were "incorrect" in their labelling of tobacco, alcohol, marijuana, etc.?

Just do a thought experiment....who benefits if the above were true?

 

[Steelr4evr]

I didn't realize we had so many druggie sympathizers here. Whatever floats your boat. I'm sorry but coke,heroin,meth,crack and a **** pile of other derivatives should never be legal...EVER! Booze is just as bad, but we're stuck with it.It's ingrained in our society just as drugs would be if legal.
I'm sorry if people are weak minded ***** who can't handle reality. So you can spin it any way your heart desires. It's bad **** and our youth will get hooked.The next generation of loser drugged up dip ***** would turn this country into a wasteland of **** offs. It would not take long before drug laws came back or we got invaded. Just like the failed experiment of socialism keeps being forced on us here.I could just fathom a bunch of drugged up socialist deadbeat losers populating the country. If this is what libertarianism is about then **** that. I will never vote for one.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Booze is just as bad you say? We tried making that illegal, it led to increased crime and everyone still got drunk. Now people get drunk and there's almost no organized crime involving booze. Is it that difficult to piece together that the illegal market is what causes the crime?

 

[Omar10213245]

hey! If firefighters can get stoned and still get the job done, then fine by me!

 

[RollRedRoll]

I just don't see an upswing in usage. Junkies are gonna get that junk. It's not as though there's a huge market thinking "boy, I could go for a needle of smack, but I'm just not comfortable breaking the law". Remove the vendors, tax it. Save $$ on enforcing. The key is to remove socialized medicine IMO. You make your drug choices you pay for the consequences, not the taxpayers.

100% agree... I feel people should be free to put whatever they want into their bodies, but I also agree that we shouldn't have to pay for the consequences.... If there are people out there that want to put this stuff into their bodies and there are others that want to make it their business manufacturing and selling the stuff to them, they should be free to do that, free from interferrence from others that do not agree with the choices they have made. But don't come running to the taxpayers for healthcare when the choices you've made bite you in the ***.

 

[Confluence]

I didn't realize we had so many druggie sympathizers here. Whatever floats your boat. I'm sorry but coke,heroin,meth,crack and a **** pile of other derivatives should never be legal...EVER! Booze is just as bad, but we're stuck with it.It's ingrained in our society just as drugs would be if legal.
I'm sorry if people are weak minded ***** who can't handle reality. So you can spin it any way your heart desires. It's bad **** and our youth will get hooked.The next generation of loser drugged up dip ***** would turn this country into a wasteland of **** offs. It would not take long before drug laws came back or we got invaded. Just like the failed experiment of socialism keeps being forced on us here.I could just fathom a bunch of drugged up socialist deadbeat losers populating the country. If this is what libertarianism is about then **** that. I will never vote for one.

Interesting that your stance is about more government, more rules, more laws, more criminals, more for-profit jails, more psychoactive pharmaceuticals.....you really ought to do some reading.

 

[Steeltime]

100% agree... I feel people should be free to put whatever they want into their bodies, but I also agree that we shouldn't have to pay for the consequences....

But that's government's trick. Those who run government declare that the taxpayer needs to pay for health care and housing for those who cannot afford to do so for themselves, at which point government can now tell us what to put in our bodies since they are providing housing and medical care.

That is just not going to change until we decide that government has no business either providing medical care or dictating what we can eat, drink or smoke. And until we understand that government's self-proclaimed generosity in providing item [x] is nothing more than a gateway to controlling and punishing personal behavior, then we will continue to have our personal affairs governed by strangers.

P.S. Those who weepingly protest government "getting into our bedroom" are almost universally the same who insist that government should provide housing, and medical care, and schooling, and home loans, and on and on, and thereby insure that government will always have the power to control and dictate personal behavior.

 

[ark steel]

P.S. Those who weepingly protest government "getting into our bedroom" are almost universally the same who insist that government should provide housing, and medical care, and schooling, and home loans, and on and on, and thereby insure that government will always have the power to control and dictate personal behavior.

and to provide the birth control that they use in the bedrooms they don't want the government in...

 

[Troglodyte]

Many people who strongly oppose legalizing drugs also strongly defend the right to bear arms. However guns, like drugs, only cause problems when used in an irresponsible manner. Say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, the logic is hypocritical.

 

[EdReed4Prez]

Many people who strongly oppose legalizing drugs also strongly defend the right to bear arms. However guns, like drugs, only cause problems when used in an irresponsible manner. Say whatever you want about the 2nd amendment, the logic is hypocritical.

The converse is true as well. The majority of the legalize drugs crowd are gun grabbers.

 

[Steelr4evr]

For all of you negative karma *** drug lovers...suck my balls dopeheads. You're the ******* idiots.

 

[Steelr4evr]

Interesting that your stance is about more government, more rules, more laws, more criminals, more for-profit jails, more psychoactive pharmaceuticals.....you really ought to do some reading.

oh **** you dope head. You do some reading. Maybe start with opium dens. Some of you are comical and dumb.

 

[SteelChip]

Steelr4evr ...oh **** you dope head

 

[EdReed4Prez]

For all of you negative karma *** drug lovers...suck my balls dopeheads. You're the ******* idiots.

oh **** you dope head. You do some reading. Maybe start with opium dens. Some of you are comical and dumb.

You seem a little agitated. Perhaps something to take the edge off?

 

[DBS1970]

For all of you negative karma *** drug lovers...suck my balls dopeheads. You're the ******* idiots.

I have never touched the stuff. I wouldn't tell you that you couldn't though, you see that is how freedom works.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

I have never touched the stuff. I wouldn't tell you that you couldn't though, you see that is how freedom works.

This, right here, sums up my views in a nutshell.

**** who you want, smoke what you want, carry what you want (open or concealed), wager what you want, buy what you want. It's really none of my damn business. But some people will never see it that way. They insist that they have the right to regulate the personal lives of others.

I really don't know what to say to those people...

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

This, right here, sums up my views in a nutshell.

**** who you want, smoke what you want, carry what you want (open or concealed), wager what you want, buy what you want. It's really none of my damn business. But some people will never see it that way. They insist that they have the right to regulate the personal lives of others.

I really don't know what to say to those people...

By and large and for the most part, I am with you. The problem is the lines of gray. I'm all for people having the freedom of choice. But I don't believe that people should be able to choose to drive 120MPH on the Interstate, or drive drunk or high, or beat their wives, etc. The freedom of choice only goes so far. There have to be boundaries.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

By and large and for the most part, I am with you. The problem is the lines of gray. I'm all for people having the freedom of choice. But I don't believe that people should be able to choose to drive 120MPH on the Interstate, or drive drunk or high, or beat their wives, etc. The freedom of choice only goes so far. There have to be boundaries.

Drinking and driving, wife beating, those things involve harming other people. As long as you're not hurting anyone else, I think you should be able to do what you want.

Bob and Jim are *******. They like to **** each other in the ***. They've decided that ******* each other in the *** is much preferable to ******* other people in the *** and wish to make the arrangement permanent. I don't understand why I should care that they want to exchange fudge packer rings. Why are conservatives so up in arms about this? I do not understand.

Danny, Denise, and Debbie are Mormons. They would like to **** each other stupid. They have decided they want to make this arrangement official. Why is that illegal? I do not understand. Why should anyone not named Danny Denise or Debbie even give a **** what their cohabitation arrangement is?

Rex is a foreman. He works hard all week. Come Friday night he likes to get loaded on ecstasy at the rave and throw glitter on himself. He always takes a cab home. But this is illegal. I do not understand why.

Phil fancies himself a marksman. Really he's a UPS driver, but on weekends he likes to throw on the cowboy boots and strap his six shooter to his leg. He can hit 5 targets in less than 3 seconds now, right off the hip. If he walks off his property with that six shooter, he will be arrested. I do not understand why.

Randy is, well, randy. He's not particularly good looking, or tall, or charming. But he's a decent guy and he likes pretty girls just as much as the good looking guys do. He likes to pick up hot girls (over 18) on Backpage and pay them to ****. He treats these women well and pays them handsomely for their time. In some states he can not only be arrested for this, but can be charged with human trafficking and sex slavery for consensual paid sex. I do not understand why.

Nick loves a wager. He bets a few bucks on every game. Plays scratchers too. He's been getting good at poker, lately, and wants to host his own local tournament. If he does, he'll be charged under RICO and sent to Federal Prison for 10 years. I do not understand why.

I am none of these things, nor have I engaged in any of these activities. And yet there are millions of people in prison, in county jail, on parole and on probation for these "offenses", and for the life of me I cannot understand why. None of these people are hurting anyone, none of them are forcing their views on anyone, they are just trying to pursue happiness in their own way.

And yet...

 

[hamster]

For all of you negative karma *** drug lovers...suck my balls dopeheads. You're the ******* idiots.

All *** drug lovers are now put on notice.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

All *** drug lovers are now put on notice.

If someone's going to insult people's sexuality by calling them "fags" it seems a bit counterproductive to then demand homosexual favors by ordering them to "suck my balls".