I think I should explain WHY I'm a Civil Libertarian

[DBS1970]

Do you really think free and legal access to highly addictive drugs is a good idea? From what I understand, heroin and crack addiction are almost instantaneous for a lot of people...how do you manage this? And the fact that kids will believe it to be socially acceptable, and find it easier to get their hands on? How hard was it to get your hands on a beer when you were in junior high? Is that really what you want?

I do want them completely legal and I will tell you why. 1st and foremost because you have no right to tell someone else what they can or cant put in their body. Second people who are likely to get addicted are getting the drugs anyway. They are funding that violent criminal underground I talked about earlier and once they are addicted they aren't getting treatment for there drug problem because of the stigma and criminality attached to their disease.

 

[oneforthebus]

I do want them completely legal and I will tell you why. 1st and foremost because you have no right to tell someone else what they can or cant put in their body. Second people who are likely to get addicted are getting the drugs anyway. They are funding that violent criminal underground I talked about earlier and once they are addicted they aren't getting treatment for there drug problem because of the stigma and criminality attached to their disease.

Two assumptions here...one, that illegality is no deterrent to hard drug use. Two, that stigma and criminality are the main reasons addicts don't seek treatment.

In my lengthy personal experience with addicts, those are both erroneous assumptions.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

This anti-father bias is just a subsection on the injustices of the courts and their decisions.

That actually sounds like an interesting point. Could you translate it into English for us laymen?

 

[CharlesDavenport]

That actually sounds like an interesting point. Could you translate it into English for us laymen?

Let me help out with this

 

[Stainless]

Does anyone posting in this thread actually believe our war on drugs is working? I do not. Do you see the light at the end of the tunnel? I do not. Do you advocate the status quo? I do not. Do you advocate spending more taxpayer money because you feel our current big government approach is under funded? I do not. Are you in favor of trying something completely different? I am.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Does anyone posting in this thread actually believe our war on drugs is working? I do not. Do you see the light at the end of the tunnel? I do not. Do you advocate the status quo? I do not. Do you advocate spending more taxpayer money because you feel our current big government approach is under funded? I do not. Are you in favor of trying something completely different? I am.

See Colorado. Now they have one in eight kids over 12 smoking weed in the last month. Bottom line is that there are drugs that need to be illegal, and laws have to be enforced. Let's see how this experiment works out for Colorado. I suspect it will be bad. Some freedoms just don't work in a society. I suspect that drugs is one of them.

 

[Stainless]

See Colorado. Now they have one in eight kids over 12 smoking weed in the last month. Bottom line is that there are drugs that need to be illegal, and laws have to be enforced. Let's see how this experiment works out for Colorado. I suspect it will be bad. Some freedoms just don't work in a society. I suspect that drugs is one of them.

What were the numbers before? Is there anything indicating that one in eight kids over twelve smoking weed is bad?

 

[Steel Not A Player]

See Colorado. Now they have one in eight kids over 12 smoking weed in the last month. Bottom line is that there are drugs that need to be illegal, and laws have to be enforced. Let's see how this experiment works out for Colorado. I suspect it will be bad. Some freedoms just don't work in a society. I suspect that drugs is one of them.

The gun grabbers have been saying this from the start. It's also China, Cuba, and North Korea's argument for restricting free speech. Literally word for word the same argument.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

What were the numbers before? Is there anything indicating that one in eight kids over twelve smoking weed is bad?

It is inevitable that there are people like you asking for proof that a 12 year old smoking weed is bad. This is why societies create laws.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

The gun grabbers have been saying this from the start. It's also China, Cuba, and North Korea's argument for restricting free speech. Literally word for word the same argument.

You are trying to equate this with gun control? That's funny. There is a constitutional right to bear arms. That is sacrosanct. They don't have that in China, Cuba, and North Korea, you idiot. There is no constitutional right to do illegal drugs.

 

[Steel Not A Player]

You are trying to equate this with gun control? That's funny. There is a constitutional right to bear arms. That is sacrosanct. They don't have that in China, Cuba, and North Korea, you idiot. There is no constitutional right to do illegal drugs.

Why is it that every time you start losing an argument you start calling people names?

And you can equate it to gun control because your right to due process, and against unlawful search and seizure are guaranteed in the Constitution and both of these rights are violated by the "constructive possession" and "stop and frisk" doctrines.

One thing is clear: you don't know much about either the Constitution or the unconstitutional structure of modern drug prohibition. You should read up.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Why is it that every time you start losing an argument you start calling people names?

And you can equate it to gun control because your right to due process, and against unlawful search and seizure are guaranteed in the Constitution and both of these rights are violated by the "constructive possession" and "stop and frisk" doctrines.

One thing is clear: you don't know much about either the Constitution or the unconstitutional structure of modern drug prohibition. You should read up.

False premise - I haven't lost an argument and called names. You are just an idiot. This painful attempt at justifying your conflation is evidence. How long did it take you to come up with this nonsense?

 

[Steel Not A Player]

False premise - I haven't lost an argument and called names. You are just an idiot. This painful attempt at justifying your conflation is evidence. How long did it take you to come up with this nonsense?

Well, since you're not grown up enough to have a rational discussion, I'm done with you.

People like you are why **** is all ****** up. You won't have an intelligent discussion about anything. The second you see your position weakened, you resort to ad-hominiem attacks rather than rethinking it.

Sad, angry little man. I pity you.

 

[Steelr4evr]

It's not worth the argument here. It's a silly little circle jerk with condescending ********. **** isn't changing anyway no matter how much you want it.

 

[IndySteel]

The hangover that I have this morning could surely benefit from a couple tokes off a bong.

 

[DBS1970]

Two assumptions here...one, that illegality is no deterrent to hard drug use. Two, that stigma and criminality are the main reasons addicts don't seek treatment.

In my lengthy personal experience with addicts, those are both erroneous assumptions.

in your opinion and in your limited experience I am sure you think they are erroneous. In actual documented cases like Portugal and other countries the facts bear out what I have said.

 

[DBS1970]

You are trying to equate this with gun control? That's funny. There is a constitutional right to bear arms. That is sacrosanct. They don't have that in China, Cuba, and North Korea, you idiot. There is no constitutional right to do illegal drugs.

Rights don't come from legal charters like the Constitution. Rights come from God the Father. The most basic right that all people have is the right to their own person and that includes use of drugs if they so desire.

 

[Stainless]

It is inevitable that there are people like you asking for proof that a 12 year old smoking weed is bad. This is why societies create laws.

Is it legal for 12 year olds to possess & smoke marijuana in Colorado? I would be very surprised if that were actually the case. Are there any 12 year olds smoking cigarrettes? If so, perhaps those should be outlawed for everyone if it it will prevent unlawful use among 12 year olds.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Is it legal for 12 year olds to possess & smoke marijuana in Colorado? I would be very surprised if that were actually the case. Are there any 12 year olds smoking cigarrettes? If so, perhaps those should be outlawed for everyone if it it will prevent unlawful use among 12 year olds.

I see. So anything that some 12 year olds will do anyway should be legal? Or the fact that some 12 year olds do it renders it silly to outlaw? Is that what you are getting at? This is getting to the heart of why society has laws.

 

[Tim Steelersfan]

Rights don't come from legal charters like the Constitution. Rights come from God the Father. The most basic right that all people have is the right to their own person and that includes use of drugs if they so desire.

No offense man, but if you want to reference "God the Father" then say that people have the right to do what they want with their bodies/lives, you've gone off the reservation. You know, in Christianity, that whole "your body's a temple" thing? God the Father doesn't give one the right to make free choice with his/her body. Try again

 

[oneforthebus]

in your opinion and in your limited experience I am sure you think they are erroneous. In actual documented cases like Portugal and other countries the facts bear out what I have said.

Portugal has not legalized drugs, only decriminalized first time possession of very limited amounts, evaluates the offenders and refers them for counseling and treatment. Repeat offenses and possession of larger amounts with intent to distribute are still prosecuted.

I could be in favor of that kind of policy. The openly legal manufacture and sale of highly addictive poisons to the general population, no.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...on-in-portugal-12-years-later-a-891060-2.html

 

[Confluence]

I see. So anything that some 12 year olds will do anyway should be legal? Or the fact that some 12 year olds do it renders it silly to outlaw? Is that what you are getting at? This is getting to the heart of why society has laws.

I don't think it is legal for 12 years to smoke cigarettes, drink or use marijuana. I'm not sure how you confuse illegal usage of any of these substances by a minor with legal usage by those over 21.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Rights don't come from legal charters like the Constitution. Rights come from God the Father. The most basic right that all people have is the right to their own person and that includes use of drugs if they so desire.

As they relate to laws in the US, certain rights are recognized in the Constitution that cannot be abridged by law. Using illegal substances is not one of those. This is not a complicated argument. You live in a society ruled by laws.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

I don't think it is legal for 12 years to smoke cigarettes, drink or use marijuana. I'm not sure how you confuse illegal usage of any of these substances by a minor with legal usage by those over 21.

I'm not confusing anything. Legalizing weed is creating an environment where more kids are using it. I don't think that is good. If you want to draw a parallel with that and alcohol and cigarettes, and make the argument that one can't argue against the criminalization of one without the other, then I just disagree. You can make that argument about almost anything. I get the libertarian perspective - if it isn't hurting anyone else, then leave me alone, but it is hurting the society and in particular the kids.

 

[CharlesDavenport]

Well, since you're not grown up enough to have a rational discussion, I'm done with you.

People like you are why **** is all ****** up. You won't have an intelligent discussion about anything. The second you see your position weakened, you resort to ad-hominiem attacks rather than rethinking it.

Sad, angry little man. I pity you.

Good luck with your life. I will try and watch the ad-hominiminemenimen stuff.